  ztmikeMark for moderationPremium
join:2001-08-02
Michigan City, IN | I'm I missing something here? I just don't understand Comcast and Time Warner..their wanting to bring these faster speeds yet they'll cap you and even throw you off their network or better yet not let you USE the speeds.
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www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdYueIC1pjM | |
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 |  DogfatherPremium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA | Re: I'm I missing something here? It's about marketing. | |
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| |  en102Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA | Re: I'm I missing something here? Exactly.
Why sell a $30 1.5Mbps package when you can sell a $70 15-20Mbps package and get the same results.
I.e. A vast majority of users would probably go on a 1.5-6Mbps package because they don't NEED the extra speed, however, the marketing guru's have a fix for that.... Put an insane cap of 5GB on a low package to force you to pay more for usage.
Sure you have a high speed package... but do you need it ...NO!
Similarly, I called AT&T for a dry Uverse line yesterday, and they offered me Uverse Internet only, as long as I subscribed to Uverse Max (10/1.5Mbps) for 6 months. I've been on 3Mbps/512kbps for +3 years w/o issue. The only thing that I can get out of this is to get off of POTS.
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Canada = Hollywood North | |
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| | | DogfatherPremium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA | Re: I'm I missing something here? I would think that like DSL and their cheap deals, cable could get more than 2X the subs at the $30 price than at the $70 price. Make less per sub and make it up in volume. | |
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| | |  Anonymous_AnonymousPremium
join:2004-06-21
127.0.0.1
kudos:2
 ·RoadRunner Cable
·Comcast
 ·Time Warner VOIP
| said by en102:Exactly. Why sell a $30 1.5Mbps package when you can sell a $70 15-20Mbps package and get the same results. try downloading 2GB demo on that slow connection
on 786K: 6 Hours 12 Minutes 49.62 Seconds
on 1.5: 3 Hours 5 Minutes 26.86 Seconds
on and 10mbit: 29 Minutes 22.01 Seconds | |
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| | | | en102Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA | Re: I'm I missing something here? I've downloaded ISOs on my 3Mbps/512kbps (2.5Mbps throughput) connection over the years, and uploaded them as well. I don't do it often, but I do download it.
It all depends on what you consider the 'AVERAGE' user to be, and how often do you download those 2GB demos?
Someone that's doing email, google, youtube, IM and a few other things, or a gamer, developer, system admin, etc. that makes 'full' use out of a connection at times.
Bit Torrent is probably one of the few apps that make full use of a connection, and which is why ISP's don't care for it, especially on the last mile / node.
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Canada = Hollywood North | |
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|  SterlingIP Support Tier IIIPremium
join:2003-05-30
Pittsburgh, PA | Your just a little confused, comcast is no where near 5 gb cap and its not really a cap, your only hit if you consecutively go on bender two months in a row it seems, seems to vary by market; verizon can afford to do that because they own a decent amount of pipes between one place to another, while we are dependent on level3 for most of the transport.
Its one thing to move 500gb from Pittsburgh to wheeling when theres less cost over run from owning that part of network. it would be similar to using solar for 70% of your needs versus 100% from a power company. Even thou theres no real cost, theres still the cost of maintainance and upgrades. | |
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DogfatherPremium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA | Time for the flip flop Telco's slower DSL meant that if the telco wanted customers, they do so on price. And when the telco went after those customers with sub $30 pricing it worked very well.
As cable struggles to keep up with their fiber competitor speed wise, it's time that cable take the same tact and undercut FiOS pricing by a few bucks.
Price is king and all the speed in the world is pointless with overage fees and draconian traffic shaping. A simple new round of telco web-hog style advertising will ruin any speed related marketing effort the cable operator attempts. Cable would better compete with $35-$40 4000/512 services with a low subjective (eg Cox) upload cap to control upstream channel saturation of 24/7 seeding.
By ditching these huge tiers, you also stand a good chance of dropping those top % that are consuming (as they claim) a disproportionate amount of traffic. | |
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| | | Re: Time for the flip flop How right you are...I am so glad that I have FiOS available and I am taking full advantage of it!
It is a shame that the cable companies are increasing speeds only to restrict the amount of freedom that users have on their networks by applying bandwidth caps and stricter traffic shaping. | |
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| | DogfatherPremium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA | Re: Time for the flip flop Then cable operators like Time Warner turn around and mislead potential subscribers with billboards claiming "Fiber Optic Fast Internet" when it's not. | |
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| | | | | Re: Time for the flip flop said by Dogfather:Then cable operators like Time Warner turn around and mislead potential subscribers with billboards claiming "Fiber Optic Fast Internet" when it's not. That all depends on the definition of "Fiber Optic Fast Internet." I know plenty of fiber connections that are only 10mbit maximum. And I know plenty that are 10gbit and 40gbit.
And technically, without fiber in their network, cable companies could not deliver any of the speeds that exist now. So while their choice of words leaves something to be desired, it doesn't make it any less valid. | |
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| | | |  fireflierCoffee. . .Need CoffeePremium
join:2001-05-25
Limbo | Re: Time for the flip flop Symantics and splitting hairs to make a special-case claim. It would be more accurate if Time Warner changed that slogan to "Poorly-Implemented-Fiber-Optic Fast Internet". But why clarify when they can mislead? | |
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| | | | DogfatherPremium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA | Yeah but in the case of FTTH providers like Verizon you actually get to USE the connection. | |
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| | | | | | | Re: Time for the flip flop said by Dogfather:Yeah but in the case of FTTH providers like Verizon you actually get to USE the connection. Well, technically, no. The fiber comes all the way to your house, but then it is still converted to copper ethernet and/or coax.
You're using the fiber just as much as a cable customer is using the fiber. Your data and your TV are going on the fiber, but you don't interface directly with it. | |
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| | | | | | DogfatherPremium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA
4 edits | Re: Time for the flip flop Well technically yes. Cable is FTTN and coax the last 1/4-1/2 mile (more or less) to the customer. FTTH is only coax or TP inside the house (about 100' or even less) where it is less suceptible to problems (moisture, interference, corrosion, damage, etc) and offers higher bandwidth potential than cable's extended runs of coax.
Plus cable topology is fundamentally different and suffers from DOCSIS channel bandwidth limitations, specifically upstream channel capacity. Verizon with GPON serves up 2.4/1.2Gb (4X DOSCSIS 3) split between only 32 homes. Cable can catch up with DOCSIS3 (for channel bonding), abandoning analog simulcasts and SDV (devoting the freed channel bandwidth for HSI) but widespread deployment is not coming for a while and by then the FTTH folks will have their next gen stuff well on the way. | |
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| | | We just need more ADSL2+ providers. There is one in maine that has 20/1. | |
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| | Capped access So at 200Mbps, you can hit your capped limit even faster! What a benefit! | |
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| Reviews:
·Optimum Online
 ·Verizon FiOS
| Re: Capped access said by jnemesh:So at 200Mbps, you can hit your capped limit even faster! What a benefit! Take your pick of bad apple ideas, that or... $1 per gigabyte, might as well make it $4 per gigabyte.. hey, gas is four bucks a gallon, why not gigabytes? | |
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 tiger72SexaT duorPPremium
join:2001-03-28
Saint Louis, MO
kudos:1
 ·T-Mobile US
| TWC has independent divisions... ...unlike Comcrap and VZ, etc..
In other words, a place like NYC, with heavy competition from Cablevision and Verizon, won't be seeing caps like East Texas is testing.
And calling Fios "uncapped" is a bit of a false statement. It's capped all the time. Even at 100mbps it's still capped...
I can assure you, TWC will battle it out with FIOS in straight speed battle, with unlimited transfers.
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"What makes us omniscient? Have we a record of omniscience? ...If we can't persuade nations with comparable values of the merit of our cause, we'd better reexamine our reasoning."
-United States Secretary of Defense (1961-1968) Robert S. McNamara | |
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|  a333A hot cup of integrals please
join:2007-06-12
Rego Park, NY
·Cingular Wireless
2 edits | Re: TWC has independent divisions... err, the 'capping' being talked about here is the transfer caps Time Warner has been testing in certain markets. In fact, there was only recently an article of this site, and the A.P., confirming the plans. We all know internet tiers are capped in terms of speed, we don't need to be reminded of THAT. | |
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| | | RCN will be out of business and no Docsis 3.0 upgrades?
With TWC at Docsis 3.0 in New York City, RCN is DEAD WITHOUT EQUAL OR FASTER PIPE at a better price point! | |
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| | patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1 | Re: TWC has independent divisions... When TWC introduces caps in NYC, RCN will have booming business aslong as no FIOS around (which is 4 or more years away for lots of NYC). | |
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| | | | | Re: TWC has independent divisions... said by patcat88:When TWC introduces caps in NYC, RCN will have booming business aslong as no FIOS around (which is 4 or more years away for lots of NYC). 4 more years man? Don't say that. I've seen a few of your post and you seem to be really accurate @ the nyc stuff, this is just horrible news. I was thinking 1 year max for SI to get done, then Queens.
Oh well I'll take docsis3.0 in the meantime. Kind of makes you regret not signing those 2 year price reduction contracts Time Warner sent out to keep you from switching to FIOS. | |
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| | | | patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1
2 edits | Re: TWC has independent divisions... The only issue with RCN is, they went bankrupt before they could build their network out to all of NYC. Northwest Queens has it, and scattered apt buildings throughout Queens. Nowadays RCN only builds out to large Apt buildings where they get contracts with landlords. In my visual observation of RCN's HFC network vs TW's HFC network in Astoria, they do have a higher node density and fiber is deeper (coax being paralleled by fiber) than TW. Remember TW is an older network that probably initially didn't have fiber (built late 1980s) and only in the early-mid 1990s did they fiber it I think. Also obviously as TW's HFC network was built conservativly before the internet and VOD age, node density is lower than RCN which built their network as combined HFC and MAN/Private Line/Enterprise Fiber since day 1 and included provisions for lots of fiber. | |
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| | Those caps are too small The Time Warner caps are too small and the overage price is pretty high also. I know Comcast was thinking of a 250gig cap which is more than fair , in fact most users would never use that in 1 month. I have had AT&T DSL for several months now and although it is slower than Comcast , I'm happy with my 6meg package and the price is nice also. | |
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 chlenEthically ChallengedPremium
join:2001-01-16
Albany, NY | my .02 i have 15/1 TW RR snd it has no caps, it is 44.95 with cable tv, or 49.95 with out. i never heard a thing about caps, this are has spotty fios, but not in the city Albany, just thre suburbs, tw has virtually no competition. Fios has no tv. | |
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| a333A hot cup of integrals please
join:2007-06-12
Rego Park, NY Reviews:
·Cingular Wireless
| Re: my .02 Who told you FiOS has no TV? In areas where it has the appropriate franchise agreements and manages to fight off pressure from cable, Verizon has been offering FiOS TV for a LONG time.
As to the caps, don't worry about them till your first $100 internet bill comes rolling in... | |
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| | chlenEthically ChallengedPremium
join:2001-01-16
Albany, NY | Re: my .02 said by a333:Who told you FiOS has no TV? In areas where it has the appropriate franchise agreements and manages to fight off pressure from cable, Verizon has been offering FiOS TV for a LONG time. As to the caps, don't worry about them till your first $100 internet bill comes rolling in... verizon does not offer tv in my are via fios, and will not in the foreseable future, as tw has a city franchise agreement till '12
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"He who is not afraid today to say 'no' to the repressive machinery of a criminal bureaucracy earns the right to be called a Human Being."
»lp.org/
Zion is our milk | |
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| | Cable is Dead The greedy bastards just don't know it yet.
90's thinking in the 21st century.
Too bad their stockholders are just as techno-dumb as they are.
By the time cable figures it out it's going to be way, way too late.
I remember when Justin was preaching cable was king after his DSL troubles 7 or 8 years ago.
I laughed then and I am still laughing.
Adelphia was my provider in the 90's and now I have Fios.
Adelphia represented an extreme that is the model for all MSOs.
Hell yeah I am laughing. Every single time I see a MSO shoot themselves in the foot I chuckle and you better believe it. | |
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| | Caps are too low With over-the-air digital TV on the horizon (mandated switch to digital), this seems like a stupid move right now.
I know several people at work that have used the digital TV broadcasts in the area, and are very happy with the results. We normally get at most 10 usable channels using analog TV. With digital TV, many are reporting they get 30 very good quality channels from as far away as 50 miles.
I'm seriously considering eliminating cable TV since I do not watch that much TV. Going with over-the-air digital TV, and a cheaper Internet provider is a viable option for me. As more people experience the over-the-air digital TV option it wouldn't surprise me if others use that option.
Yep, cap my bandwidth and see if that influences my decision. | |
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| | drop if cap. I will drop timewarner in a heart beat if they implement cap on the connection.
I hate verizon a lot, but at least it's not cap. | |
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Reviews:
·Optimum Online
·Verizon FiOS
| what is a cap? Keep in mind there are several definitions of caps.
1. Provision cap (set by the speed tier you buy)
issue: you may or may not be able to transfer at this speed depending upon technology used, node congestion & other factors.. more of an issue with shared cablemodems than FIOS or properly conditioned DSL lines. The internet as well may be congested so, the uneducated internet user may not be able to tell WHICH is happening and WHEN (or WHY for that matter).
2. Peak time throttling / Bandwidth management behind the last mile. This can involve packet rejection, RST, delayed or not loading web pages, and in extreme cases blocked content. ALL carriers do one or more of the above to some extent to manage costs (INCLUDING VERIZON FIOS & BUSINESS CLASS QOS ACCOUNTS). Some of this has to do with peering arrangements & other things that help them not pay huge tier-1 bandwidth charges for data transport. Hint: the more you pay for your bandwidth, the less inclined they are to do this to you.
3. Byte management. Latest scheme to manage costs on the backs of consumers. This is probably the most invasive of solutions to the consumer because the company is chomping at the bit to either: a. terminate high usage accounts. b. charge OVERAGE penalties such as cell phone wireless minute plans (aka bill by the byte plans). c. slow your bandwidth tier down to a crawl as punishment for too much usage (FAP), which dialup, satellite & wireless broadband carriers are/were very good at.
While nobody is expecting TWC to start billing by the byte (NY Metro) when they have an inferior infrastructure (relax, I'm just talking about last mile) to FIOS as it stands today. What the consumer should expect to happen is for Docsis 3.0 to begin delivering 50 megabits to the home with comparable QOS as FIOS, provided TWC doesn't do it on the cheap, which they have been hinting at along with press releases for bill by the byte experiments. No doubt they will try to get by with the least amount of upgrades and enhancements as possible, and you the consumer should demand parity considering the prices are very similar. This will egg Verizon on to introduce higher speeds as well (100mbit, finally).
You the consumer will have the choice. No doubt both companies will let you test drive the service for 30 days risk free to see which is better (once it's available). For now it's a deployment race. | |
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 BF69Premium
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN | Watch no cap for NY TW knows they can compate with FiOS is they have a cap especially one as low as 40 GB. So you'll see no cap for NY. | |
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 BSD24Tier 4Premium
join:2008-04-30
Middleboro, MA | Texas is not New York They are testing the caps in Texas to see how many people go over the limits right off the bat. Thats why they say they will later decide whether to actually bill customers that go over or not. If only a few people are going over and minimaly then that would probably give them all the more reason to go ahead with the cap. If everyone goes over the limit or the majority then they will need to change/cancel the cap in my opinion or they will go down the tubes.
I doubt they will put a cap on Docsis3.0 in New York when they are only testing the Texas markets with caps. Doesn't make for good marketing or business especially with launching a new speed (docsis 3.0) and technology.
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BSD | |
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Reviews:
·Comcast
| wait... caps as low as 5GB? Somehow each day I pull 0.15GB in just network traffic (ARP, Routing, ICMP, Pings, all that stuff)... If I had a 5GB cap I'd use that up doing absoutly nothing at all! On comcast, they seem to be streaming me a constant 2KB stream of routing data! | |
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 wifi4milezBig Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY | Nice, maybe I wont switch to FIOS! Given that I dont realistically expect FIOS to be rolled out in Manhattan (on a large scale) for at least 2 or more years, this might be a good thing. I have been overall very happy with TWC, and if they can give me FIOS "like" speeds this year I will certainly consider upgrading.
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Have YOU thanked a soldier today? If not, think about doing it as you speak ENGLISH this memorial day. God Bless America, and God Bless our troops.
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