An experiment completed this week by the California Center for Innovative Transportation (CCIT) has caused people some concerns about the privacy issues related to cell phone tracking. These concerns are also being reflected in court cases that involve the tracking of a suspect’s location through his or her cell phone.
The CCIT experiment is part of a project to test out methods for predicting and monitoring traffic on California’s freeways. Using GPS systems and traffic-monitoring software installed in Nokia phones, the researchers were able to monitor traffic flow. They claim that if the system began to be widely used, all identifying information would be stripped from the phones before location information was transmitted back to Nokia. However, people are concerned that this isn’t accurate and that their specific location could be tracked.
This type of tracking is exactly what’s been done through phones in a handful of court cases where criminal suspects were located by authorities through their phones using GPS and triangulation. A recent U.S. District Court holding has upheld the right of authorities to use wireless information to track suspects.
please, please please, tell me you're being facetious. it's not that you have nothing to fear of being tracked if you're doing nothing wrong. it's the sheer principal of the thing. it's that if you HAVEN'T done anything wrong, why ARE they tracking you? what happened to "innocent until proven guilty"?
You're assuming that the government has power over the people and not the other way around. Have you given up so soon?
I'm so sick and tired of the argument over "to protect our nation"... We all know dubya was 100% honest about everything he did, including his real intentions, right?
This is no different a statement than concealed gun laws... or the right to carry laws. They are all going to make us safer.. from who? Other lawful people? Criminals don't use the typical systems. If someone was a true criminal, or 'terrorist' (just say it) then they are going to use one of the thousand of pre-paid 'cash' phones they already purchased up to evade tracking.
So, care to re-think that statement?
I will NEVER, *EVER* be on the side of things being "ok because we have nothing to hide".. because no one is going to plant the ID chip in me just because they have it.
Giving up liberty is idiotic! The solution to the problem is not abusing personal liberties and freedoms.. the solution is to correct the inept people making ineffective laws in the first place, and furthermore, cutting back on the number of BS laws that create so many criminals in which feed a hungry legal system in the first place. I wonder how many cell phones, in California, helped put those 3-strike candy-bar-stealing criminals behind bars?
The moral to the story is that if you look at ANYONE hard enough, you WILL find that someone has broken some law somewhere. Still want to be tracked?
Awww and I was so anxious to have more big brother. You know, this stupidity won't end until the government has complete control over our lives. George Bush has set off a dangerous precedence and as long as Americans are dumb enough to accept the "for your own good argument", it'll continue. It's a shame this country is REALLY that dumb. Then again, kiss a few babies, hate a few ethnic groups, oppose gay marriage and abortion, and Wallah you're in with the most idiotic of this country. IE. You can overshadow authoritative motives by simply redirecting the morons above to think of something else. Half this country is really that gullible. Instead of seeing what's being taken away, they're too busy tossing around their bibles trying to spread one form of ignorance, while having the rug pulled out from under them. All the while too busy on their own projects to even notice. For the rest of us, we can sit here and complain but I don't think it does much good when the other half can't see what's happening.
I'm with you about being tracked. Its nobody's business but my own. The systems that "protect" us can also bite us in the backside if misused.
As far as concealed carry...you better check the statistics. Everywhere it is legal, crime drops. Use common sense...who's purse would you rather steal? The old lady's who is brandishing her .357 or the woman without?
You are right about criminals not using the typical systems... they already carry whether you like it or not. The guy robbing the bank doesn't care if its also illegal to j-walk.
I enjoyed your post. Its nice to hear from someone who actually thinks.
Tell it to all the innocent people who have been convicted and imprisoned. Thankfully a few have since been exonerated and released, but even so irretrievably lost a great part of their life, and I do not mean just the years of denied freedom.
And who's investigating all those who were executed to ensure they were not innocent? Yep nobody checks up on dead men.
Oh and to think that the people will get up and do something about this government is impossible. They say axe medicare and social security and trust in your 401k's. If you've watched the news 5.1 trillion dollars was lost in Janurary.
So explain to me when your grandparents and parents are too old or frail to work, get kicked out of their homes because they no longer have income, and depend on you to provide medical care for them, where will you go for vacation, what shiny new piece of technology will you buy?
If it means our nation is protected. If you don't do no wrong why worry about being tracked?
Oh come on. What a stupid position to take. This is precisely why I don't have a cell phone. It is nobody's business where I am at a given moment. It has nothing to do with whether I am doing something illegal. It has to do with privacy. I have a right to personal privacy. The government, Microsoft, Yahoo or whoever has no right to track me via a cell phone I might have. I would have a cell phone only for emergencies and what a horrible, steep price to pay to have a bit of peace of mind in the case of emergency.
Our nation protected because our privacy is totally lost? Where did you get such a harebrained idea? Privacy comes FIRST in a nation of FREE individuals. We have NOTHING if we give up privacy...we sure as hell won't have "protection".
I read Stephen King's Cell. No one would get a cell after reading that thriller! (He doesn't have a cell phone either. I suppose he scared himself). LOL
Prepaid still requires that you buy airtime, minutes, etc. every few months. Oh, I've looked at every cell phone provider, every plan prepaid and otherwise and they are all ripoffs. The hidden "gotchas" and everything else about cell phones is digusting. When HawTel stops having public phones then I will be forced to get a cell phone but until then unless I find a better plan than any of the myriad I have perused...well...no thank you. Besides the prepaid plans have really crappy phones that don't work decently. What good does it have to have one and then it doesn't work when you need it? Here, only Verizon is really good and they are the most expensive provider.
Then there is the battery thing. I hated cordless phones and having to charge them. I went back to a nice corded phone that never needs charging.
Tracking is okay. That way you can catch cheating spouses and end it in divorce court with proof, rather than continue being victimized by slick con spouses.
It's not a bad thing, BUT should be opt-in only. Doing this by default opens up a whole can of privacy concerns, regardless of whether you have bad intentions.
Mobile phones have had GPS in them for years and people are only now realizing they can be used to track you?
Some Cell Phone Companies are selling this capability as a feature. For example, when you buy a Cell Phone for your children they offer the capability to track them via a web site. I think that those "Children's Phones" are trackable even when they are powered off (ie: The GPS Responder is on a separate circuit that is not affected by the On/Off switch) and the only way to cripple it is to remove the battery.
As to tracking via Cell Phone, this capability is used on Crime Shows (CSI, NCIS, etc.) all the time which should be a tip off to the public that it can be done (although you must take some of the show's usage with a grain of salt since they show things for dramatic purposes that are not actually possible yet).
Mobile phones have had GPS in them for years and people are only now realizing they can be used to track you?
Hardly. It's the first time they've been the subject of such a large scale experiment.
Backing up a little to look at the larger picture...
The biggest problem that people have with all these methods of tracking, they are too "black box" with too many unknowns. The potential for abuse and misuse is enormous, particularly when there is no disclosure on just what happens behind the scenes.
Trust me, if you are going to hide, forget plastic money, cell phones, internet, car rentals, satnav, passports, and yes, your RealID-compliant drivers' license.
Time to crank up the volume on Pink Floyd's Animals.
Unless people stick their phone on their dash how is the GPS going to work. It's not going to get a signal through the metal roof of your car. They can triangulate your position with multiple towers but it won't be nearly as accurate as GPS.
I use a program called Mobile GMaps on my cell phone. You would be surprised how accurate telephone GPS is, and it works in many places standard GPS receivers won't.
Unless people stick their phone on their dash how is the GPS going to work. It's not going to get a signal through the metal roof of your car. They can triangulate your position with multiple towers but it won't be nearly as accurate as GPS.
I have a cheap (less than $100) Bluetooth GPS receiver I use with computer mapping software, and it works very well in vehicle just sitting on the seat or in my shirt pocket.
Unless people stick their phone on their dash how is the GPS going to work. It's not going to get a signal through the metal roof of your car. They can triangulate your position with multiple towers but it won't be nearly as accurate as GPS.
You are so wrong. The GPS systems work quite well within cars. My cellphone and my internet tablet work just fine from within a car.
I've had quite a few GPS devices over the years. None of them will work if they are sitting on my console which is where I put my phone. I've always had to put the receiver on the dash to get it to work worth a crap.
I've had quite a few GPS devices over the years. None of them will work if they are sitting on my console which is where I put my phone. I've always had to put the receiver on the dash to get it to work worth a crap.
Sorry to disagree with you, but my Magellan Meridian Color GPS will work on the passenger seat or sitting on the console between the seats. This is on at least 12 different car types over the past two years (I travel a bit for work). Granted it probably suffers a bit in absolute accuracy, but I make my turns and get to where I routed to.
Little razor blade to the RFID chip oughta do it... Or will they then issue a warrant for me for the crime of "tampering with an official identification document" because I've become untraceable by that means?
The students in the experiment gave their consent to be tracked but will you have the same option? Will this be an unconfigurable 'feature'? If the data is encrypted and stripped of personal information BEFORE it leaves the phone AND users have the option to opt out of the monitoring (at the phone level) and can control when the monitoring is done, then it is a clever idea.
On the other hand, couldn't cities gather traffic information by monitoring the load on the cell towers next to the highways instead of through the phones reporting in? The information wouldn't be as precise but with statistical analysis I think it could still be useful - and without the privacy concerns.
In fact I wrote the software the the US Gov't uses and has used to track people via cell towers.
The program is unofficially called Trakker and can be used in real time based on cell site triangulation with allowances for delay to relay. It was used to track the people that kidnapped and killed Sidney Reso (his bodyguard and the bodyguards wife -Arthur and Irene Seale)
Great subject. Used GPS tracking years ago as PD Inv. If we stuck a magnetic gps-tracker unit on a veh. exterior (behind plastic bumper facade) no search-warrant was needed. We just had to retrieve the unit for download of GPS data. Later, a combo GPS and cellphone was used that would cellphone us the GPS coordinates realtime. Again no search warrant w/ ext. mount.
Now, anyone, incl. creeps of all types can buy/make similar trackers.
The cellular/GPS loc. data collection numbers are being accelerated by the profit of gathering & selling 'customer data' to commercial interests (to be pooled with consumer buying info), AND selling to the government entities who've been forced into to buying data from the private sector by the current administration.
There is big money in this private-arena free-for-all.
Hmmm, maybe I should start a demographics/research company, secretly put these on cars, and have an army of cars that are tracked with nobody knowing. Then sell the data to advertisers.
Hmmm, maybe I should start a demographics/research company, secretly put these on cars, and have an army of cars that are tracked with nobody knowing. Then sell the data to advertisers.
So YOU'RE the one that put that @%$!ing thing under my bumper!
Then again, this could make my "weekly bumper change" business very profitable...
This is a great topic. Technology is our enemy again! Woo Hoo. Big Brother is back again and BIGGER than EVER !!! How about coming back down to earth? I am always amazed when a perp is caught and brought to justice. Why? Because there are so many people, so few police and such limited budgets for them. I read recently that programs that monitor child molesters could not accurately track all of them because of lack of personnel due to lack of money. In addition law enforcement agencies at all levels don't always "share" information with others due to rivalries, jealousy or ego trouble. The local law enforcement agencies don't like the feds, and the FBI doesn't like the CIA, who doesn't like the NSA who doesn't like any of them. Antiquated procedures, ancient computer networks and inadequate budgets constrain all of them. I mean no insult to any of these organizations, but do you folks really fear any of them? And speaking of egos, why do any of you think you are important enough to be tracked???
And speaking of egos, why do any of you think you are important enough to be tracked???
I think the issue here is the principle. The fact that someone unscrupulous in law enforcement could decide to track you.
Also, you might be right about the average person not being "important enough." But, what if you aren't "average?" What if you have beliefs and opinions that aren't "expected" or are "unpopular?" What if you are different in a way from most people, whether on the surface or underneath?
Suppose, because of that, they assume you might do something wrong, and they decide to track you? I doubt it'll be to the point that they know exactly what you do at home, or when exactly you eat dinner or use the restroom. But they could determine when you're likely to be home.
I don't know about most people, but I figure that it's no one's business where I happen to be at any given time, unless I choose to make it their business (i.e. "Honey, I'm going to the mall."). This is the kind of thing you'd expect small children to be exposed to, not adults.
This is a great topic. Technology is our enemy again! Woo Hoo. Big Brother is back again and BIGGER than EVER !!! How about coming back down to earth? I am always amazed when a perp is caught and brought to justice. Why? Because there are so many people, so few police and such limited budgets for them.
Then maybe we should repeal some of the oh-so-profitable victimless crime laws that keep cops off of the real criminals?
Who would you rather the cops be chasing? The guy down the street that has a couple pot plants in his basement and faces asset seizure (big bucks for the State) or the ever-feared molester that's buggering your kids and will cost the system money and never put a dime back in?
Come to think of it, aren't all monetary fines inherently unjust? A $1000 fine means a whole hell of a lot more to the guy that makes $8/hr than it does to the guy that makes $50 an hour.
It's because of this fear, that when my mobile contract expires I'm going to experiment with living without a mobile phone for a month or two, and see how I like it. I'm inclined to think that I can do it again, since I've done it before. If I can't stand it, I'll get another one.
This isn't because I like to do things that are wrong, since I don't. But is it really anyone's business where I happen to be at any given time?
At least that information can't be tracked accurately through landline services, such as phone lines, the Internet, or payment methods.
This article talked about showing the motion of cell phones while in vehicles to track and predict traffic paterns to help aleviate congestion. And everyone jumps on here talking about how thier rights have been violated. I have driven in Los Angeles, traffic is a nightmare, anything that could help that mess is an improvement.
Grow up people, they are not tracking individuals, they are tracking cell phones that are in motion.
Look if you are up to something blatantly criminal, you don't bring a cell or remove its battery (or use a throw away anonymous prepaid.) That's been standard SOP for years for anyone paying attention.
Just another reason never to buy GM garbage. And a reason I didn't have a lo-jack system installed in my truck. What do I care if the insurance company ever recovers my car?
My cellphone "aint gots GPS" and when it's turned off (as it usually is) the carries "aint gots me logged in from cell to cell"...!
Go ahead all you folks that "need to be plugged in" Big Brother and the Patriots ..how do you think they tracked Scott Peterson in his murder trial ??
Don;t forget ..if your phone was tracked to the nearest cell when the Terrorist Bomb went off, The Patriot Act says Emperor Bush can lock-up you up and throw the key away and you'll sit there rotting as a Terrorist in Suspicion !!
Remember the Patriot Act is NOT to fight Terrorist ..it to put innocent Americans in jail at the governments own free will....Say Hello to your Freedom !!
Some food for thought. The first time I read the article stating that the government wanted to be able to track all cell phones, I new the reason was bologna. The governments to be able to track all cell phones was that a little old lady in tennis shoes drove off the road, was injured and called 911. She did not know where she was and it took rescuers a long time to find her. In order to protect you from the same fate, the government required the wireless carriers to provide some way to find the location of a cell phone when the subscriber dialled 911. I knew that was bologna.
It is 2004 and the presidential race is in full swing. There were published reports that Two attendees at GOP rallies at different locations asked the wrong question and within a week lost their jobs.
It is now 2012, the telephone companies have been give full immunity to revealing customer call details with no probable cause. The presidential race is in full swing. You are not satisfied with the political climate for the last Four Years and you become political active for the opposing party. The party in power believes that you are a member of an opposing group and a threat to their reelection. They file a fraudulent request to use cell phone tracking with no probable cause, to confirm where you were the day of a meeting by the opposing political group. Within a week you are called in to your supervisors office and told that you are fired for actions that embarrassed your employer. Your landlord advises you that your lease is being voided because you are disturbing other tenants. You find out later that many of the people that attended the same meeting in question also suffered the same fate. Do you still think that cell phone tracking is still in your best interest.
Once again the government is gonna do whatever they want to do. Oh sure they'll suger it all up with claims of monitoring traffic, national safety and what not... but in the end we the litle people wil have no say despite millions of dollars in law suits.
Guess I'll be leaving my cell phone somewhere else.
Reply to "benc" The "principle." Yes, I understand the principle. But you always have a choice. To have a cell phone or not. To have your cell phone "modified" if you are unhappy about some of it's features etc. Don't say it can't be done, there are many talented people out there.
Reply to "bent' (are you the same person as "benc" ? with a typographical error?) I agree with you about "victimless" crimes, and yes, if we did away with a lot of laws there would be more cops, time and money to persue "real" criminals. But who will decide what crimes are "victimless" and which are not? This is a whole new topic and could take more time and space than talking about tracking our cell phones.