U2 Manager Wants ISPs To Be Content Babysitters Applauds France's new three strikes anti-piracy law... U2's long-time manager Paul McGuinness has long blamed "hippy values" for the collapse of the music industry, likened ISPs to shoplifters, and frequently blames everyone except the music industry for the decline of the music industry. He's back this week with an editorial in the UK's Guardian newspaper, applauding France's new "three strikes" piracy law, which terminates the connections of users who are repeatedly accused of transmitting pirated P2P content. McGuinness would like to see similar models adopted the world over: There are clearly people who oppose the new law, but I have not heard of any viable economic alternative to the system now being introduced, committing ISPs to helping protect copyright. The only other proposals offered look like solutions produced for the laboratory, not for the market place. Techdirt's Mike Masnick, who's been writing a lot about working, alternative music business models for artists large and small in the age of broadband, has a few choice words for Mr. McGuinness: (McGuinness) seems to jump to the conclusion that kicking people off the internet will suddenly make people buy music again -- as if he can suddenly turn back the clock. Kicking people off the internet doesn't make them feel better about your product. It doesn't make people more comfortable giving money to the recording industry -- it makes them pissed off and eager to spend their money elsewhere.
It's the exact opposite of a business model. It's a "piss your customers off" model. Masnick notes there are new business models that work, they just involve reaching out to your customers, listening to what they're saying and treating them well -- something unfamiliar to many major music labels. The music industry's dream scenario is instead all about maintaining control by force: a future where ISPs are forced by government to play content cop, while imposing a monthly piracy tax on your broadband bill.
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 KearnstdElf WizardPremium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ | im sure he thinks CDs should be 20+ dollars too.... along with some form of system that activates it to a single CD player, to use in any other CD player one has to rebuy the CD license.
Utopia for the music and movie industries would be one where they fully control your experience and all you get is a license to consume the content and where the act of playing it in an "Unapproved Device"(read anything that can record) would be illegal. and that even your kid's birthday party would be considered public performance and that by showing Finding Nemo you just broke the law.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
|  pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD |  Fight Back
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Blagojevich / Madoff 2012! | |
|  |  TCubPremium
join:2008-09-03
Olmsted Falls, OH
kudos:4
 ·Cox HSI
| Re: Fight Back said by pnh102:U2 is nothing without its customers. I am sure a fair number of them got to know the group by listening to pirated tracks. Perhaps it is time to remind U2 who made them what they are today (ok, maybe what they were a few years back). 100% agreed. The same goes for all the greedy ass bands like Metallica.
This is one of the big reasons I like purchasing music from smalled bands on iTunes. I feel somewhat confident that when I buy an album from TV on the Radio or Jackson and His Computer Band that some of that money is going to go to the artist, one who deserves it.
I have a lot of respect for Trent Reznor/Nine Inch Nails because not only does he produce some of the most kick ass music ever, he's also using the internet as a why to literally give his music away for free.
Of course Trent can do this because he's already made lots of money the old fashioned way but at least he isn't greedy and understands what music is really about, unlike trashy ass bands like U2 and Metallica (sorry metallica fans. While they may have once kicked ass as well they're now just cash cows...
It's rather sad and should really anger people who have supported such bands throughout the years only to be slapped in the face like this. | |
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| | Maybe This guy needs to get his facts straight before he talks.
He is pissed because all MUSIC today SUCKS. sorry but U2 is OLD you know? old stuff is great but the new stuff kind of sucks. | |
| | me1212
join:2008-11-20
Pleasant Hill, MO | Re: Maybe said by hayabusa3303:He is pissed because all MUSIC today SUCKS. sorry but U2 is OLD you know? old stuff is great but the new stuff kind of sucks. So very true. The music from 50s/60/a little 70s/a very very little 80s> stuff from today. | |
| | | rdaniel
join:2008-01-16
Cambridge, MA | Re: Maybe U2 is fucking garbage and this guy sucks balls!!! | |
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| | | I thought the new album was very good. | |
| | | DannyZGentoo FanboyPremium
join:2003-01-29 | Re: Maybe I bought it the week after it came out from Amazon mp3 on sale for $4. Listened to it once and haven't played it since. | |
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|  NerdtalkerWorking Hard, Or Hardly Working?Premium,MVM
join:2003-02-18
Tucson, AZ | I wonder what the price of a U2 album is on iTunes. I'm guessing it isn't $.69, but rather the more/most expensive tier.
The logic behind everything the music industry does is amazingly flawed. Cutting off downloads won't make people want your crappy music any more than they did before, in fact, people like internet *gasp*, and running the mouth about how evil the whole thing is only makes us collectively hate U2 and the MAFIAA a little bit more.
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"Some people never see the light till it shines thru bullet holes." -Bruce Cockburn
I'm testing Gmail's spam filters: Broadbandreports1@gmail.com
Spam: 12900+ messages currently using 406 MB. | |
|
 mrchrisOut and aroundPremium
join:2002-10-01
North Babylon, NY
1 edit | Hey U2 Fuck off, ISPs provide the connection and not monitor content the way China does. Don't make enough money? Make some music that DOESN'T SUCK, get out of those chains (major label contract) and go indie. | |
| | | | Re: Hey U2 Is it really necessary to address people like that? | |
| | | | | Re: Hey U2 said by monkeyslew: Is it really necessary to address people like that? He wasn't addressing people. He was addressing you. (Monkeyslew - see, it even rhymes!) | |
| | |  Noah VailSon made my AvatarPremium
join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA
kudos:1
·Bright House
 ·Sprint Mobile Br..
| said by monkeyslew:Is it really necessary to address people like that? You know those people who have to shake every car around theirs, with the bass?
They're showing off their taste in music.
They're showing off as if they wrote the music, but they didn't;
or like they played the music, but they didn't,
or like they helped produce the album, or swept out the studio, or something; but they didn't.
It's just like that.
MrChris is showing off his ability to cuss in a public forum.
See?
NV
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In my perfect religion, a giant hole appears and sucks up all the lousy people.
I call it the Crapture. | |
|
Reviews:
·Comcast
| He has a Good point. I am glad I can read the article instead of your entitlement minded bias. The problem is unless you are a headliner band like U2 that can pull in a crowd at a concert venue, a career in music is next impossible. Thanks to illegal downloading, the album is now worthless, which means less profit that can be turned around to promote new talent. Has anybody noticed that we do not any superstars of the bit torrent age; where are today’s U2, Rolling Stones, Janet Jacksons; all I see are American Idol and Hanna Montana. Furthermore, illegal downloading had devastated the independent record store. Today it is either ITunes or Best Buy for recordings and if you are lucky as in here in Portland Oregon, we have a single Independent and the only store selling classical music. | |
| | KearnstdElf WizardPremium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ | Re: He has a Good point. you mean a legal download gap they could have filled back nearly 10 years ago when they heard about napster? nope instead they spent years in court rooms and not selling DRM free high quality tracks.
in any other industry being slow to pick up a new trend usually means death. but not music, you just fight the new trend rather then have made the right moves when the trend was new.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
| |
2 edits | said by Scatcatpdx:I am glad I can read the article instead of your entitlement minded bias. The problem is unless you are a headliner band like U2 that can pull in a crowd at a concert venue, a career in music is next impossible. Thanks to illegal downloading, the album is now worthless, which means less profit that can be turned around to promote new talent. Has anybody noticed that we do not any superstars of the bit torrent age; where are today’s U2, Rolling Stones, Janet Jacksons; all I see are American Idol and Hanna Montana. Furthermore, illegal downloading had devastated the independent record store. Today it is either ITunes or Best Buy for recordings and if you are lucky as in here in Portland Oregon, we have a single Independent and the only store selling classical music. I don't think the lack of superstar bands today has much to do with piracy. I think a better reason is the way the music business operates these days. Back in the day, many bands started off touring clubs, bars, and other small venues. They often did this for years before they managed to cut a deal for an album released on a label of a decent size. I won't call them a "major label" because, a few decades ago, there were many more record companies out there, before they got gobbled up or forced out by the music conglomerates. And once a band had something out there, it often got played on local radio stations as DJ's discovered it. That was back when stations weren't owned by huge chains, and local personnel had a say in the music a station played. Now, it's all dictated by corporate headquarters so that radio sounds exactly the same no matter where you are. So, if you're a local band, say, in Chicago, good luck getting your local Clear Channel station to play you. The people there may want to throw your self-produced disc on, but their playlists are sent to them, so if you aren't known by the consultants who tell the people at Clear Channel's HQ what should be played in Chicago, then you'd have a better chance of getting on the air if you broke into the studio and did it yourself.
Now, everything has changed. Artists often aren't discovered after they've toured locally and regionally for several years; they're manufactured by the media companies. Do you think Britney Spears was found by some agent after playing small venues for a few years? Hardly. She was groomed for the part from an early age. Ashlee Simpson? Would anyone with...um..."talent" like hers stand a chance if it weren't for her sister? Jennifer Lopez? She only got a record deal because she looks good and because she was already known, so she was moved into music as a way to expand her "brand" into another area. And I won't even mention all the "boy-bands" that were creations of record company execs. All of these so-called artists are creations of the record companies, and the companies like it that way. First, it makes these "musicians" beholden to the corporations that created them, which is good for the companies' bottom lines. Second, they're totally disposable. Once their stardom starts to wane, they can be easily cast aside and replaced with the new flavor of the week. The side effect of all this is that there are very few superstars anymore. Music these days is tightly focused on hitting target demographics, so if you're a record exec wanting to constantly reach the teen demographic, then you don't want bands your listeners will grow up with; you want to constantly change your focus to keep hitting kids as they reach your chosen age range. I remember when MTV turned 25, and there was almost no mention of it on-air and no musical trip down memory lane. In an article, an exec was asked about this, and he said that it was because the channel is focused on its current viewers and has no reason to want to tell them how old it is, since its history would mean nothing to them. And you mentioned American Idol. That show is the music industry's dream come true. Not only do the record companies not have to find new artists, but they get to see what the public likes, then sign the winners and runners-up to record deals. And if those artists don't stand the test of time, it's no big deal, since a new season will be on the air soon enough with new artists to promote.
Just my opinion, but I think the lack of superstars these days has much more to do with the music industry's business decisions than anything else. | |
| | |  TransmasterDon't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY | Re: He has a Good point. There speaks the truth. | |
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| | | said by Scatcatpdx: Furthermore, illegal downloading had devastated the independent record store. Today it is either ITunes or Best Buy for recordings and if you are lucky as in here in Portland Oregon, we have a single Independent and the only store selling classical music. No, the Best Buys and Wal-Marts have killed the independent record store. They sold for less than the indies could and bought in more volume. Plus, you didn't have to make a special trip. Might as well lump in Amazon and all the other online retailers that handle CDs too.
The decline of the independent record stores started long before anybody heard of Napster, and long before broadband was widespread.
AFAIC, the only decent act you mentioned as "Superstars" is the Stones. I've never liked Janet Jackson or U2 and have always changed the station if they were played on the radio. | |
| | | | | Re: He has a Good point. Yep. The big chains grabbed all the customers looking for "mainstream" artists, since they could buy a CD while they were in there getting shoes, toilet paper, and mops. This left the indie stores only the people looking for more obscure artists not carried by the mass-market stores. That might have kept them afloat had it not been for online sales, since those sites could sell to the whole world and aggregate all those niche customers, getting product to them just as fast as the local stores could order it, at a lower cost. | |
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|  KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
 ·AT&T DSL Service
| said by Scatcatpdx:I am glad I can read the article and see the RIAA's entitlement minded bias. The problem is unless you are a headliner band like U2 that can pull in a crowd at a concert venue, a career in music is next impossible. Thanks to the RIAA, the amount bands get from an album is now worthless, which means little to zero income that can be used while the band creates more music. Thanks to downloading of music on the Internet, bands that don't have a chance under the current system can gain exposure and pick up fans, meaning one day they will be able to issue their own albums, and make a fair amount of the proceeds, as well as get more gigs and eventually concerts, in which they pretty much keep all the money. There, I fixed it for you.
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"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
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| | | DesdinovaPremium
join:2003-01-26
Gaithersburg, MD | Re: He has a Good point. As someone who's worked in the music industry for decades, I applaud your post in ways that are FAR beyond a simple thumbs up!! Excellent observations! | |
| | | | KearnstdElf WizardPremium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ | Re: He has a Good point. but a decade ago did you see the internet as a new business venture for selling your product like pretty much every other major business in the world or did you see it as a terrible enemy that must be stamped out?
what hurt the industry bad was not pouncing the net full force on the first months they discovered the scale of downloading.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
| | | | | DesdinovaPremium
join:2003-01-26
Gaithersburg, MD | Re: He has a Good point. Quite a few of us on the creative / production side both anticipated and loved the possibilities promised by such an open and accessible communications medium, especially my indie clients. It was the suits in the Ivory Tower that reacted with such paranoia, much the same as they are now. *sigh* | |
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| | | | do nor take my argument and turn them into straw men you fixed nothing. | |
| | | | KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | Re: He has a Good point. Ok, you were just plain wrong then. Thanks for clearing that up. | |
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| |  Wanker
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| | Noah VailSon made my AvatarPremium
join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA
kudos:1 Reviews:
·Bright House
·Sprint Mobile Br..
| Re: Wanker said by nonoc97 :This guy is a bloody wanker. Just ask Negativland! Well, you can't get much farther underground than Negativland.
said by negativland:"David. What did you do with my cigarettes?" "Oh yeah, I think I know where they are. They're in back of the TV set, where all the parakeet feathers are." I liked it when he auctioned off his mom's 1976 Granada as a publicity stunt.
Ya know, I still have the Sealand 001 box around here somewhere.
NV | |
| | | | | Re: Wanker Yeah, the quote ..is that from A Big 10-8 Place?
Seeland 001 box....if it's minty vinyl you might have eBay treasure there!! | |
| | | | Noah VailSon made my AvatarPremium
join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA
kudos:1 Reviews:
·Bright House
·Sprint Mobile Br..
| Re: Wanker Yea, a big 10-8. I never did understand the significance of 180 and the letter G. Of course that didn't stop us from having it on rotation for about 3 straight years.
As I recall, it was a big hit with the PsychoDrama crew when they came back from performing one of their shows.
NV | |
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| | DesdinovaPremium
join:2003-01-26
Gaithersburg, MD | Imagine a group of talented guys who shun copyrights, encourage their fans to copy and distribute their works, and because of their sheer talent and knowledge of how to work the system, gain success and even MORE followers! Negativland should be used as a role model for all SERIOUS musicians! | |
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kherrPremium
join:2000-09-04
Collinsville, IL | "Accused" ????? ......He's back this week with an editorial in the UK's Guardian newspaper, applauding France's new "three strikes" piracy law, which terminates the connections of users who are repeatedly accused of transmitting pirated P2P content. McGuinness would like to see similar models adopted the world over:......
So all they have to do to kick me off is "ACCUSE" me, what about "PROOF" ????? I only listen to music off the radio anyway but could still end up without internet when they goof up a trace which has been done many times ...... | |
|  EdG
@eastlink.ca | Well then! I'm off to download some U2 music - just to increase the numbers downloading it just to piss off Paul McGuinness.
Then I'm going to delete it, as U2 has sucked forever. Or give it away - whichever way my hippie mind wills it....  | |
| | | | Re: Well then! Don't do it. It would be far better for folks to simply ignore media from companies whose business practices they disagree with. People think that by downloading illegally, they take money from these companies. True, but they give them political ammunition by allowing them to complain about all the piracy, and that's more valuable than money.
If people want to really hurt these companies, they should not interact with them in any way. Don't buy their product, don't download it, and don't share it. People say that it's nothing but mass-marketed, overpriced junk, yet it's still being shared. If it's garbage, then get rid of it, and let these companies become irrelevant and die.
Remember, bullies crave attention more than anything else because it makes them seem important. Don't play their game. | |
|
 MurdocPremium
join:2009-02-08
Manitowoc, WI | long lost brother from metallica Not another fool! Where are these idiots coming from? I think its more of "crappy music and greedy values", that have caused the decline of the music industry. D'oh! | |
|  andybPremium
join:2003-05-29
SW Ontario
kudos:1
·TekSavvy DSL
| Funny I find it funny that just about everyone against piracy or p2p just happens to be wealthy people who can afford the shit.Those are are the same people who probably dont even buy it but get freebies from the industries or go to the screenings etc.
Crock of shit is all thier opinion is worth.
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Planet Phillip-Home of HL1 and 2 mods
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| |  JoeG4
join:2001-12-16
945941 | Re: Funny WTF is U2 anyway? Some hippy crap! | |
| | | | | Re: Funny Hippy crap? Where do you get from? | |
| | | | Noah VailSon made my AvatarPremium
join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA
kudos:1 Reviews:
·Bright House
·Sprint Mobile Br..
| Hippidy do da
Free, I mean Pirated Love! |
said by monkeyslew:Hippy crap? Where do you get from? Gee whiz. I can't imagine. Maybe it's because Bono hasn't washed his hair since 1989.
Or maybe that his causes can each be found in the hippie activism playbook; circa 1968. Or perhaps the typical leftist hypocrisy of condemning Americans over the Iraqi war while U2's drummer points out Bono's oozing affection with the other major war player; Tony Blair.
Or perhaps it's U2's wagging their collective finger at all of us during one of their frequent environmental rants. But in typical U2 fashion, Edge is completely deaf to the neighbors and environmentalists who are trying to prevent him from decimating one of the remaining pristine pieces of California landscape in order to build his $44 Million dollar palatial estate.
Or maybe it's just the hippie way Bono shows his loyalty to his Wife and Children.
NV | |
|
 BitPremium
join:2009-02-19
00000 | I think U2's manager should kiss my ass Here is a novel idea...how about putting out music that doesn't suck dog balls?
Meanwhile Bono really looks like he's in the poor house as a result of evil music pirates. Awwwe, my violin is playing for him. | |
| MySay
join:2008-04-08
Mansfield, TX | Greedy... Apparently, he STILL hasn't found what he's lookin' for! | |
| |  JigsawStardust We ArePremium
join:2000-10-21
Cleveland, OH | Re: Greedy... said by MySay:Apparently, he STILL hasn't found what he's lookin' for!
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"It's called the American dream because you have to be asleep to believe it."-George Carlin
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| | | TransmasterDon't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY | Re: Greedy... What a cool photo!!!!  | |
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| | Hippy Crap Hippy crap comes from the idea that all music should be free - what was fought over at Woodstock and culminated at the Isle of Wight Festival (see the film). Hippies wanted the concert to be free but roadies, promoters, trucking companies and equipment rental facilities needed to be paid as well as the artists.
It is the same as being argued now. To make a recording, producers, engineers, mastering facilities, recording studios, promoters, art designers, etc. need to be paid. The artists themselves put hours of work in for free. The record labels front all this money.
The tech world needs to stop being so arrogant and grow up. I challenge everyone here to do their jobs for free from now on instead of forcing musicians to be on the cusp on the great anarchic revolution. | |
| | | New Idea for IP laws How about we change the law too.
After a company makes 100% profit from music/movie/software.
That means 100% after production cost/engineering costs. with 10% of actual production cost going to advertising.
So if it cost $100 dollers to make, then they are allowed to tack on $10 dollers for advertising. So the most amount of sales they can make is $220. After $220 dollers it becomes public domain.
I think this is a better law that could be introduced. | |
| | mrchrisOut and aroundPremium
join:2002-10-01
North Babylon, NY
1 edit | Re: New Idea for IP laws said by cpsycho:I think this is a better law that could be introduced. What we need is to get those bloody lobbyists ti stop palm greasing the pols in order to stop these companies getting their way with us. | |
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decifal
join:2007-03-10
Bon Aqua, TN
kudos:1 | ey hey U2! Hello hello!! You suck!! Try not to loose your award for being the largest turd! Lord knows you hate being Number 2!!!!
(( if you don't get this.. Watch southpark in between your crying sessions with Ellen, and Oprah )) | |
|  Simba7
join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT | He should move to China.. I would suggest he move to China if he wants his internet connection monitored 24/7.
As for the U.S., I'd love for his connection to be monitored 24/7 and cut off if he does *ANYTHING* he's not supposed to. Then maybe he'd zip his fsckin' trap.
Come to think of it, all celebrities, managers, etc. should be monitored 24/7 for *ANYTHING*. That way they can experience it first hand before anyone else. Then *MAYBE* they'd shut their trap when they're given every site they'd been on a nice binder, along with their chat and email logs.
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Bresnan 15M/1M|MyWS[P4HT 3.2GHz,2GB RAM,2x1TB HDDs,WinXP]|WifeWS[P4 2.4GHz,1GB RAM,60GB HDD,WinXP]|Router[2xP3@1GHz,640MB RAM,18GB HDD,Allied Telesyn AT-2560FX,Kingston KNE100TX,2xDigital DE504,Compaq NC3131,iPro/1000DP,Blitz BWI715,Gentoo Linux] | |
| | | | Re: He should move to China.. Man Fu** these dudes I get sick of them | |
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| | Well I always and will use limewire nothing ever happened to me after 5 yrs and still. | |
| | | . I wish I could be unhappy that I was filthy rich.  | |
|
1 edit | Tear DOWN THE WALL tear down the wall
tear down the wall
wonder did berlin mean anything to these idiots?
do they understand. ALL just a sham from the top on down to make you all cattle
watch U2 sales now plummet as they and coldplay go back to nothing.
Go play and give money now to a charity that has no cure to make ones self look good go go. Screw and make the rest of humanity suffer and have US PAY PAY PAY.
Turn off the net
Turn off the net
Turn off the net
Tell ISP's that
So i guess hammer manufacturers are likened to assisting murderers as are baseball bat makers and gun makers.
I guess pencil makers and pen makers are also weapon manufacturers, and i guess we also need to go after scissor makers and makers of cutlery and plates and cups. All things we can use as a tool that could be used and have been used in crimes.
God forbid its the person that does stuff not the maker, not the service.
AND don't worry we trust they know from there drug and alcohol programs most musicians and actors are and have been in that they are the model citizens. | |
| TransmasterDon't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY
1 edit | Hell hath no fury like a has-been band. | |
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