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UK ISP Says They'll Ignore New Copyright Law
Talk Talk argues bill has horrible problems, still wants a court order...
by Karl Bode Friday 09-Apr-2010 tags: legal · Fileswapping · business
Yesterday we noted how a new UK piracy bill was rushed through the voting process without any real debate, and now forces UK ISPs into the role of playing copyright police for the entertainment industry. That lack of debate is troubling given the bill was largely written by the entertainment industry, involves the possible termination of user broadband accounts, and even included vague language that could be interpreted as an attack on whistle blowing websites like Wikileaks. One of the UK's three-largest ISPs, Talk Talk, says they they won't be cooperating with the bill:

This is made all the more appalling by the ability of big music and film companies to influence government and the absence of any proper debate or scrutiny by MPs – only 5% of MPs turned up for the brief debate yesterday and the other important Parliamentary stages will be bypassed in the wash-up process. After the election we will resume highlighting the substantial dangers inherent in the proposals and that the hoped for benefits in legitimate sales will not materialise as filesharers will simply switch to other undetectable methods to get content for free.

In other words, Talk Talk believes the proposals won't only just cause all kinds of problems, they won't actually do much to stop piracy -- as pirates (as they will always do) will simply flock to less detectable methods of file sharing. According to Talk Talk, they will refuse to surrender a customer’s details to copyright holders unless presented with a court order. This debate is one to keep an eye on, as the creation of similar legislation on this side of the pond seems inevitable.

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gorehound

join:2009-06-19
Portland, ME

Time to send a message

"That lack of debate is troubling given the bill was largely written by the entertainment industry"

and more too all because of the entertainment industry.I say we support our UK brothers and stop buying any new products from these companies who think they can take away your rights to save their money which we all know it won't.Because of thse companies the 1984 scenario creeps closer.

So RIAA,MPAA, & others you won't see me at the theter nor will I buy any of your new products.I will find used stuff only.

You lose my wallet and I hope millions do the same.
gorehound

join:2009-06-19
Portland, ME

Re: Time to send a message

I might also add that these folks would love to hose us here in the USA so I think we really need to send some kind of message to them here in our country.
chronoss2009
Premium
join:2008-09-23
kudos:2

2 edits

Re: Time to send a message

said by gorehound:

I might also add that these folks would love to hose us here in the USA so I think we really need to send some kind of message to them here in our country.
this is completely hollow ISP threat why?
cause now all they will do is make a new type a judge called the
iJudge and he will rubberstamp a court order for each thing they want and according to this isp they would hten comply.

YUP no balls at all.

p.s. i have not bought any thing form the the record industry since early 90's
nor any vhs tapes or dvdrs
i have not will not goto a theatre even if offered it freely.

what hollywood is after is the morons that would think of buying an iPad thinking they are millions of idiots liek that and the truth is there arent.

DO YOU REMEMBER THIS
300,000 iPads sold on day one
after two weeks 450,000
tell you something.
thats the size of the actors and musicians in America, that want you all stupid no mind retards and on good drugs so you can just pay pay pay.

SLD
Premium
join:2002-04-17
San Francisco, CA
The idea that entities that cannot vote get the representation makes you wonder...

DrModem
Premium
join:2006-10-19
USA
kudos:1

Re: Time to send a message

said by SLD:

The idea that entities that cannot vote get the representation makes you wonder...
Money votes.

ReformCRTC
Support Your Independent ISP

join:2004-03-07
Canada

Re: Time to send a message

And that is the ONLY counterpush that can exist in a world of corporate personhood.
--
Speak Truth To Power.
openbox9

join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
kudos:2
So if entities can't vote and shouldn't have representation, then perhaps they shouldn't pay taxes either. Some people forget that the door swings both ways when these types of statements are made.
Angrychair

join:2000-09-20
Jacksonville, FL

Re: Time to send a message

You make it sound as if corporations DO pay taxes.

Silly prole.
Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ

Re: Time to send a message

oh but they do pay taxes, to tiny Caribbean countries at a very low tax rate!
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openbox9

join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
kudos:2
Because they DO pay taxes. To imply otherwise is silly.
Skippy25

join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO
They don't pay taxes. They collect additional money from consumers and pass that on.
openbox9

join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
kudos:2

Re: Time to send a message

That's like saying that you earn more at your job so that you can pass it along to governments. Call it whatever you want. Corporations pay money to governments identified as taxes.
Skippy25

join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO

Re: Time to send a message

You spin it anyway you want, businesses are free to increase prices / revenues anyway they want to make up for any taxes they may pay. Their prices are set factoring in the taxes they will pay on the anticipated profit they will earn. Common... you being a corporate shill you should know that.

I, as an employee of my company, can't modify my income to make up for taxes charged by the government. Government starts collecting 10% more, I can't make my company pay me 10% more. But a company can and will raise their prices in the drop of a hat.
openbox9

join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
kudos:2

Re: Time to send a message

No spin needed. Of course corporations must bring in sufficient revenue to cover all expenses, including taxes. You write that like it should surprise anyone.

As an employee, you pay a percentage of your income to governments. If governments raise taxes, you most likely will pay more just as your employer will. If your employer charges more for its products because of it, so be it. If you feel that you deserve more of the pie, ask for a raise, which ironically increases your tax bill.

What was this thread about again? Oh, and BTW, weak arguments don't demand name calling.
Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
well they expend resources and cause resources to be used to protect them(police keep crime down near their buildings, FD puts the building out when the bad things happen). so they should pay taxes but a corporation should never be considered to having voting rights. imo they shouldn't even be allowed to make donations to political parties. by allowing the corporations to have input on lawmaking we make things worse for the people. it wont be long until making copies of DVDs/Blu-Ray to your media center PC is illegal.

when the MAFIAA gets their way here in the US, it will be a lesser crime to walk into the mall and shoot someone in the head then it will be to upload an MP3.
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openbox9

join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
kudos:2

Re: Time to send a message

said by Kearnstd:

it wont be long until making copies of DVDs/Blu-Ray to your media center PC is illegal.
Breaking the encryption to do so is already illegal
Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ

Re: Time to send a message

said by openbox9:

said by Kearnstd:

it wont be long until making copies of DVDs/Blu-Ray to your media center PC is illegal.
Breaking the encryption to do so is already illegal
well i mean real illegal, not going 68 in a 65 on a straight dry freeway with no cops around illegal. .
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Pv8man

join:2008-07-24
Hammond, IN
well, the entertainment industry would argue the the simple ACT of breaking the encryption is illegal itself.
openbox9

join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
kudos:2

Re: Time to send a message

Isn't that what I wrote? The entertainment industry argues the legality based on the DMCA.

El Quintron
... a faint odor of kerosene
Premium
join:2008-04-28
Etobicoke, ON
kudos:2

Go Talk Talk

I hope history proves you right.

Romney2012
Defeat Obama 2012-Chg we can believe in
Premium
join:2002-03-03
USA
kudos:4

Re: Go Talk Talk

said by El Quintron:

I hope history proves you right.
And I hope the UK shuts down their service if they refuse to comply with the law.

ReformCRTC
Support Your Independent ISP

join:2004-03-07
Canada

Re: Go Talk Talk

An ill-begotten law that was created in a back room and not properly debated, and bought and paid for by big entertainment? Oh-Kay.

In history, civil disobedience is justified in cases like this.

Just because your heavy hand imposes a new law I have to follow upon me today, doesn't obligate me to obey it.

Freedom is the freedom to disobey, too.
--
Speak Truth To Power.

El Quintron
... a faint odor of kerosene
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Reviews:
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said by Romney2012:

And I hope the UK shuts down their service if they refuse to comply with the law.
A ha, so you aren't all about corporate rights are you TK...

Corporations who care about consumers more than they care about other corporations are just as evil as demanding consumers?
--
Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
JazzJRabbit

join:2003-09-27
Naperville, IL
Reviews:
·WOW Internet and..

Surprised someone is taking a stand

I'm really really surprised someone is taking a stand like this. I applaud Talk Talk for doing what's right, hope that nothing bad will come their way for this stunt, but realistically their only hope is through courts to challenge the law. Not sure how this works in UK. Anyway, I wish them best in this endeavor and hope they don't get killed by "entertainment" industry.

oh_really

@uk.net

I applaud their efforts, but

TalkTalk is not an ISP known for providing top notch performance. I believe they are into traffic shaping as well.

I'll applaud their efforts though - if they were a better ISP (and they had equipment in my exchange) I'd consider signing up out of principle (and I rarely download anything illegally. ahem.)

The sooner the anti-piracy and site blocking measures get removed, if ever, the better.
It is only there because a thoroughly corrupt, unelected politician wanted it after meeting with a media industry type on their private yacht. No doubt money made its way into his pocket for this.

I also wonder if any of the other large ISPs, even BT, will consider joining the cause.

Selenia
I love Debian
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Re: I applaud their efforts, but

I hated their services(low speed with high prices and throttling+port blocking) when staying across the pond for significant amount of time(though Tiscali was worse), but bravo! I would probably even buy 768k service from a company that took a stand like that here. Something for ISPs to think about, as I'm sure I'm not the only one.
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chronoss2009
Premium
join:2008-09-23
kudos:2

1 edit

heh another brick in da wall

read what they said

its conflicting
that unless a court order......
as soon as they said that , this is what happens.

they will give them a court order to disconnect
end game
some new type a judge will be created thus buying off the so called legal system
and this guy will just keep signing off the orders
regardless of real justice

NEXT UP CANADA and the Harper govt proposed digital economy conferences
YES he will talk now to any actors musicians and lobbyists and lawyers ONLY. YES thats right again YOU GET THE SHAFT ENJOY.
TheGuvnor9

join:2006-06-23
Beverly Hills, CA

Once again...

This problem will be solved when people stop stealing...just a thought.

BBBanditRuR
Dingbits

join:2009-06-02
Parachute, CO

Re: Once again...

said by TheGuvnor9:

This problem will be solved when people stop stealing...just a thought.
No.
The problem will be somewhat solved when/if the entertainment industry actually makes their content available to compete with piracy, then it wouldn't be an issue. That is more realistic than expecting thousands and thousands of years of human behavior to change on a whim...
--
Thy really?

The WeaseL
Premium
join:2001-12-03
Minnesota
said by TheGuvnor9:

This problem will be solved when people stop stealing...just a thought.
I can't tell if you're being serious or trolling here...
--
How lucky am I to have known someone who is so hard to say good-bye to.

ReformCRTC
Support Your Independent ISP

join:2004-03-07
Canada

Re: Once again...

Troll
TheGuvnor9

join:2006-06-23
Beverly Hills, CA
Totally serious. You all are getting up in arms about how bad the entertainment industry behaves with consumers. How bad their content is, how sneaky and litigious they are, etc.

So, by all these points, people pirate media because "it sucks". Please, give me a break. People pirate media because they are thieves.

The solution is simple, stop stealing. Remember, the best solution is often the most simple.

I take offense to being called a Troll. I never insulted anyone or made any wild claims. I just happened to disagree with the majority of you who consider the entertainment the evil empire, hell bent on controlling your (notice I say your, 'cause they don't control mine) destiny.
gorehound

join:2009-06-19
Portland, ME

Re: Once again...

They do not steal.doing this is the same thing all of you have done your whole life.That is why folks like me are up in arms over the big greedy companies.
1.How many cassette tapes did you record of the vinyl albums you bought ? Well if you made one tape then I guess that makes you a thief ???
2.How many times did you "loan" out a movie to someone you knew (friend or family) ? loaning something make you a thief?
3.How many folks would actually go and buy some TV show they just downloaded to watch ?
4.How many folks would go out and actually buy the movie they downloaded ?

I have bought stuff for years.I bought as much as I could afford.i have tons of books,records,cd's,movies,tv shows,etc that I bought.
I have stopped buying anything now that is new.This year was my resolution to stop giving them money.

Am I a thief ? Becuase I download for the following things::
1.foreign films not available in my country w/ World War 2 themes like old russian films.I can't even buy them here legally.i have to search for them and the subtitles.i would of bought them to support the making of more world war 2 films.
2.TV shows that are on the air anyways like LOST.Up to last year I bought legally all the shows I enjoyed when they were released on DVD Boxsets.
3.documentaries from TV.sometimes i watch some science or history
4.old 60's garage rock and obscure punk rock i download mp3's of bands who are totally obscure and are OOP for decades now.
cornelius785

join:2006-10-26
Worcester, MA
pirating music/movies is NOT stealing, it is copyright infringement.

DrModem
Premium
join:2006-10-19
USA
kudos:1
said by TheGuvnor9:

This problem will be solved when people stop stealing...just a thought.
The problem was enabled to start because of people stealing. But it cannot be stopped by people not stealing.
k1ll3rdr4g0n

join:2005-03-19
Homer Glen, IL
said by TheGuvnor9:

This problem will be solved when people stop stealing...just a thought.
You DSLR members are really funny.

Heres a thought, why don't the media industry actually try to sell their products? There are a few shows that I can't *legally purchase* - as in never released on DVD.
Or hows about not treating their paying customers like criminals?
Or hows about offering their products at competitive rates?
Or...
Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
imo there should be zero, yes zero sympathy for an industry that refuses to adapt to the times. i should be able to watch anything i want online free and legally. and then if i subscribe to the site i can watch the content without ad breaks. and more importantly they should have the Entire library.

Hulu is a good idea and i use that site, but imo i should be able to get any show from any season.

the MAFIAA members simply have no grasp on the current era of digital media. its not about selling a disc, people want it now. and yes i do buy stuff on Blu-Ray like movies. but for old TV shows i find Hulu is perfectly fine because its not like it was filmed in HD. and sites like Hulu provide revenue through ads while allowing me to legally gain access to free content. imo everything should be on hulu style sites, free but with ads or ad free with subscription.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports
openbox9

join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
kudos:2

Re: Once again...

said by Kearnstd:

i should be able to watch anything i want online free and legally.
Only if the content owners allow you to. Why can't some people understand this relatively simple concept?

moodforthot

@comcast.net
this was cable TV's first plug when cable first started "no commercials, never. just movies." and for a time it was so but look at it now.

$150.00 a month and every single cable channel has tons of commercials.

lets hope that Hulu, youtube, and the like can do it better this time if they are ever given a real chance.

SLD
Premium
join:2002-04-17
San Francisco, CA

1 edit

POND!?!

"as the creation of similar legislation on this side of the pond seems inevitable"
ARRRRGHHHHHH!!!!!!!

PapaMidnight

join:2009-01-13
Baltimore, MD

Re: POND!?!

POND!

jap
Premium
join:2003-08-10
038xx
said by SLD:

ARRRRGHHHHHH!!!!!!!
Lake, then. Yes, definitely qualifies as a lake.
wispalord

join:2007-09-20
Farmington, MO

ok correct me if im wrong butt..

dont the DMCA say its illeagle to transfer a perfect DIGITALCOPY, a mp3, divx what not is not perfect there missing things to make it smaller, and in esscence i download divx but then if i like the movie i but it to obtain the extra features and the blueray quality.. now if i was sendind a exact media rip i can see the issue or reselling what has been downloaed but i have no movies stores where i live so i cant just buy anything either.
chronoss2009
Premium
join:2008-09-23
kudos:2

3 edits

Re: ok correct me if im wrong butt..

said by TheGuvnor9
:


Once again...
This problem will be solved when people stop stealing...just a thought.
prob is its not stealing when i buy levied cdrs
the prob is that YOUR THIEVING CRIA has a 6 billion dollar lawsuit for commercial copyright infringement form 300000 artists in Canada. AND they are defrauding the people of Canada who buy the levied cdrs thinking the money is going to artists when in fact its being stolen by the american arm of the riaa in Canada. THAT IS FRAUD AND THEFT to a T. NO ONE CAN ARGUE THAT.

the problem is that the terms of copyright are too long and are in and of themselves a new form of theft from society

WHAT DOES 50 year copyright do for you citizen?
NO lawyers, no actors , no musicians and no lobbiests of any of the prior mentioned nor labels need reply as your NOT CITIZENS the way you act.

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