dslreports logo
site
spacer

spacer
 
   
spc
story category
UK Town Reverts to Smoke Signals to Protest Awful DSL
Broadband Black Holes Persist in UK, U.S.
by Karl Bode 05:24PM Monday Jul 30 2012
Much like in the States, British Telecom has been slow in getting advanced fiber connectivity (or even slightly faster DSL) out to a number of the nation's more rural markets, often delivering more fiber to the press release than actual fiber. Hoping to get a little attention for the lack functional broadband in the region, one UK town has taken to communicating with smoke signals, semaphore flags and Morse code in the hopes of improving their fortunes. Residents of the town of Kettleholm have taken to YouTube to show just how miserable British Telecom DSL performs, while rather entertainingly posting another video highlighting their creative attempts to poke fun at their need to come up with more -- "rustic" communications alternatives.

view:
topics flat nest 

Simba7
I Void Warranties

join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT

Design your own.

How far is this town from a town that has a fiber trunk going through it?

I'd suggest doing a wireless backbone link to the whole town and laying their own fiber.

FFH
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5

Re: Design your own.

said by Simba7:

How far is this town from a town that has a fiber trunk going through it?

I'd suggest doing a wireless backbone link to the whole town and laying their own fiber.

It isn't a town like you think. It is scattered farmhouses.
»maps.google.com/maps?q=Kettlehol···t=h&z=13
--
»www.mittromney.com/s/repeal-and-···bamacare
»www.mittromney.com/issues/health-care

Simba7
I Void Warranties

join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT

Re: Design your own.

Wow. That's rather.. scattered..

No phone or ISP in the U.S. would've even laid out broadband. They'd be like "You live in the middle of nowhere? Oh well. It's not profitable enough for us."

As for the speeds, it looks clearly like a network or equipment issue. What's their signal strength? How long is the loop to the DSLAM? What's feeding the DSLAM?

motorola870

join:2008-12-07
Arlington, TX
kudos:3

Re: Design your own.

said by Simba7:

Wow. That's rather.. scattered..

No phone or ISP in the U.S. would've even laid out broadband. They'd be like "You live in the middle of nowhere? Oh well. It's not profitable enough for us."

As for the speeds, it looks clearly like a network or equipment issue. What's their signal strength? How long is the loop to the DSLAM? What's feeding the DSLAM?

if it was like this part of the US (Texas/Oklahoma) they might get lucky and have a 450MHz or 550MHz (actually whatever europe had back in the 80's) serving them with retro fitted systems capabable of euroDOCSIS 1.1 or euroDOCSIS 2.0. There are cable system near me that are rural and carry 450MHz of capacity of channels/internet. Charter is upgrading one system that is 450MHz right now that is spreadout rural and has city parts but the rural areas have no internet and are stuck with 450MHz lineup with a pretty good 450MHz style digital lineup until the upgrade is finished. Suddenlink has done some upgrades in small cities/rural areas in Texas and Oklahoma to have internet and you would think these areas are not on the list for broadband as their cable systems have not been upgraded since the 80's and the only thing that has been done to them except add fiber nodes and return to bring VOD and better internet speeds. Yes Suddenlink has introduced VOD in 450MHz systems which is almost unheard of! Suddenlink is offering speeds of like 1.5Mbps and 10Mbps in the 450MHz systems that have been upgraded to all digital.

ohreally

@virginmedia.com

Re: Design your own.

The cable rollouts in the UK are pretty much urban areas only, or nearby very affluent semi-rural communities - and there's little chance of Virgin Media (who are practically the only remaining cable company apart from a very small company who operates in a couple of towns) doing anything more. When they built the networks they cherry picked the most profitable areas - but even that didn't work as Virgin Media's constituent companies both went bankrupt.

They'll just about listen if you're a street or two away from their network, and even then they won't guarantee anything. I would very much doubt that this place has cable.

Meanwhile BT is the only infrastructure provider to have actually bothered in 99% of the country (a few companies like Rutland Telecom have bothered to go as far as provide VDSL to a few places via BT's local loop).

It takes time to roll out fibre (FTTC or FTTH) so I don't know why this village is somehow getting column inches. I speak as someone who only got ADSL in 2005 and now has FTTC thanks to public funding (it's one of the few parts of the country which got European funding - while the rest of the country is bickering, we're getting on with it - even if it means giving the money to BT)

io chico
Premium
join:2003-12-30
Chico, CA

What's your idea of a farmhouse?

Those are mansions...err..estates!

n581j

@wildblue.net

Re: Design your own.

It may be a few Estates, Farms and village with a population of around 1000 but it's on a B road between Lockerbie where PanAm went down and Annon 2 towns connected so you better stick with supporting Romney
silbaco
Premium
join:2009-08-03
USA

Typical....

At least they have DSL. Most places in the US with such few houses wouldn't be lucky enough to have DSL unless they are served by a cooperative.

Simba7
I Void Warranties

join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT

Re: Typical....

said by silbaco:

At least they have DSL. Most places in the US with such few houses wouldn't be lucky enough to have a phone line unless they are served by a cooperative.

There. Fixed it for you.
elray

join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA

Protesting too much?

Why doesn't the town simply solicit a new provider to set up shop?

Oh, that's right. The overbuilder would expect the townspeople to commit to actually pay for the service.

DataRiker
Premium
join:2002-05-19
00000

3 edits

Re: Protesting too much?

The people in the article article are paying for service already.

ADSL2+ upgrades are dirt cheap, and handle distance and noise so much better than old ADSL equipment. So cheap in fact if you had all the ports used your ROI is about 1 billing cycle.

No excuse for this.
MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4

Re: Protesting too much?

said by DataRiker:

ADSL2+ upgrades are dirt cheap, and handle distance and noise so much better than old ADSL equipment. So cheap in fact if you had all the ports used your ROI is about 1 billing cycle.

So, are you really saying that if
a) fiber was already at the SLAM, and if
b) the SLAM has 192 ports, and if
c) the average monthly ADSL revenue was say $35/port, and if
d) an ADSL2+ service cost ..say $60/month,
e) that a telco could recover its costs of installing ADSL2+ at the SLAM in one month based on delta revenue of ($60-35)*192 = $4,800???

DataRiker
Premium
join:2002-05-19
00000

2 edits

Re: Protesting too much?

Our ADSL2+ cards cost less than our legacy ADSL cards. ( about 5 times less at the time of purchase )

Our line maintenance also went down ( did I mention these cards are fantastic on crappy lines? )I don't see how one could possibly incur a increased service cost.

Truck rolls = $$$

Even the modems are purchased customer side.
MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4

Re: Protesting too much?

Please consider delivering service in my 'hood.
elray

join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·EarthLink
said by DataRiker:

Our ADSL2+ cards cost less than our legacy ADSL cards. ( about 5 times less at the time of purchase )

Our line maintenance also went down ( did I mention these cards are fantastic on crappy lines? )I don't see how one could possibly incur a increased service cost.

How do they do on 20k+ loop lengths?

DataRiker
Premium
join:2002-05-19
00000

Re: Protesting too much?

Depends if your ISP supports line bonding. All ADSL2+ cards support line bonding right out of the box.

We don't support it, so we have a cutoff of about 18K. We do support VDSL2 pair bonding though.

With the mass defection of POTS we have plenty of pairs to go around, so why we don't support ADSL2+ pair bonding is a mystery to me.
elray

join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·EarthLink

Re: Protesting too much?

said by DataRiker:

Depends if your ISP supports line bonding. All ADSL2+ cards support line bonding right out of the box.

We don't support it, so we have a cutoff of about 18K. We do support VDSL2 pair bonding though.

With the mass defection of POTS we have plenty of pairs to go around, so why we don't support ADSL2+ pair bonding is a mystery to me.

Not sure that those spare pairs are all that common in the places with long loop lengths and zero density, like Kettleholm, which is about 3-4 miles from Lockerbie. Wouldn't be surprised to see plenty of phones still running on DAMLs, PairGains, and ISDN extenders.

The reason you don't see ADSL2+ pair bonding is called "U-Verse".

Sonic's Fusion offers ADSL2+ and pair-bonding. Reports are mixed.
Some users indicate speeds are slower than ADSL, and MUCH slower than theoretical speed charts state. But it doesn't really matter now that Sonic forces new subscribers to buy dialtone.

DataRiker
Premium
join:2002-05-19
00000

Re: Protesting too much?

said by elray:

said by DataRiker:

The reason you don't see ADSL2+ pair bonding is called "U-Verse".

ADSL2+ pair bonding is on the way here.

Our new JDSU test units already have the port and testing tools for 2 pair ADSL2+
elray

join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·EarthLink

Re: Protesting too much?

said by DataRiker:

ADSL2+ pair bonding is on the way here.

Our new JDSU test units already have the port and testing tools for 2 pair ADSL2+

But what LEC or ISP will offer it?

What performance gains will a customer actually realize other than slightly increased upload speed?

(Referencing Sonic's product, which is rather underwhelming.)

DataRiker
Premium
join:2002-05-19
00000

3 edits

Re: Protesting too much?

said by elray:

said by DataRiker:

ADSL2+ pair bonding is on the way here.

Our new JDSU test units already have the port and testing tools for 2 pair ADSL2+

But what LEC or ISP will offer it?

What performance gains will a customer actually realize other than slightly increased upload speed?

(Referencing Sonic's product, which is rather underwhelming.)

For customers less than 18,000ft bandwidth would be doubled ( minus a bit )

And people beyond 18K to about 25K could now get service.

Do you currently have sonic.net's bonded ADSL2+ service?
elray

join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·EarthLink

Re: Protesting too much?

We don't have Fusion yet, though it is promised "soon".

We're at ~15k feet - the line varies, sometimes will qualify for 1.5M, but historically maxes at about 650kbps, with typical speeds of 480kbps.

I'd like to think that Fusion / ADSL2+ can deliver more than 3mbps, but I'm not optimistic.

DataRiker
Premium
join:2002-05-19
00000

Re: Protesting too much?

Are you on ADSL? Or ADSL2+?

ADSL2+ typically performs better than 650k at 15K.
elray

join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·EarthLink

Re: Protesting too much?

said by DataRiker:

Are you on ADSL? Or ADSL2+?

ADSL2+ typically performs better than 650k at 15K.

We have ADSL.

My concern is that despite all the hoopla, their ADSL2+ product doesn't perform at anywhere near the advertised speeds for many, but those of us coming late to the party DO enjoy the privilege of paying an even higher price for less-than-mediocre bitrates and dialtone we don't necessarily want.

DataRiker
Premium
join:2002-05-19
00000

2 edits

Re: Protesting too much?

I can tell you ADSL2+ outperforms ADSL in 2 ways.

Firstly, it mitigates noise better. Secondly instead of using 1.1Mhz it doubles bandwidth to 2.2 Mhz. (VDSL is 12Mhz)

Now at 15K all bets are off as to whether or not you see any of the additional bandwidth
elray

join:2000-12-16
Santa Monica, CA
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·EarthLink

Re: Protesting too much?

said by DataRiker:

I can tell you ADSL2+ outperforms ADSL in 2 ways.

Firstly, it mitigates noise better. Secondly instead of using 1.1Mhz it doubles bandwidth to 2.2 Mhz. (VDSL is 12Mhz)

Now at 15K all bets are off as to whether or not you see any of the additional bandwidth

Unfortunately, the "upgrade" is a roll of the dice, pair-wise, so the improved protocol doesn't necessarily yield anything, and none of the king's horses or men are interested in coordinating a fix if you draw the short straw.

We'll still give it a roll at a few sites, those that still use hardwired dialtone, providing it comes available real soon. $55/month for ~1-3mbit and voice isn't anything to write home about, but I'd still rather give Sonic a shot at it before yielding to U-Verse or cable.

ohreally

@virginmedia.com
It's worth noting that BT does not roll out ADSL to street cabinets - they're all in the telephone exchange and so the full line length is the bottleneck.

What the residents want BT to do is to roll out "fibre broadband" - which in its more common incarnation is VDSL2 from dedicated cabinets co-located with existing wiring cabinets on the street. BT does roll out fibre to the premises but it is mostly limited to new build housing estates and as a solution to people who live close enough to the exchange to not have a cabinet in between (BT is not allowed to push VDSL from the exchange).

cbrigante2
Cubs 20??
Premium
join:2002-11-22
North Aurora, IL

Reminded Me Of This

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqiUGjgh···ge#t=64s