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U.S. Has No Idea How Wired It Is
And incumbent lobbyists want it to stay that way...

The Los Angeles Times discovers something we've been discussing for the better part of a decade -- namely that this country's leaders have absolutely no idea how wired for broadband this country is. There's a number of reasons for it, but the top culprit is the FCC, whose fealty to incumbent operators, who aren't eager to have their shortcomings highlighted, has resulted in a deeply flawed system of measuring broadband penetration.

There's a number of new mapping bills worming their way through the legislative process, but cable and telco lobbyists aim to make sure that by the time they get passed -- they don't accomplish all that much. For instance a bill proposed by Rep. Ed Markey was supposed to raise the FCC's classification of broadband from 200kbps to 2Mbps, but that provision's already been scrapped in the hopes of gaining bi-partisan approval.

Markey is also having a hard time convincing anyone that providers should be forced to hand over more detailed penetration data. Operators argue that such data poses a competitive threat, and they've fought tooth and nail in the courts to keep this data private. The industry's fear is that if we knew exactly how limited deployment really was, the government might take action to correct the problem, which could mean new regulation and revenue loss.
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Dominokat
"Hi"
Premium Member
join:2002-08-06
Boothbay, ME

1 recommendation

Dominokat

Premium Member

It doesn't matter

Any laws or changes will be brought by lobbyist.
We all know lobbyists are paid from corporations, not consumers. So we know how this will turn out already.

ninjatutle
Premium
join:2006-01-02
San Ramon, CA

ninjatutle

Member

Its none of their beezwax

nosey peeps
47717768 (banned)
join:2003-12-08
Birmingham, AL

47717768 (banned)

Member

Re: Its none of their beezwax

U.S suck when it comes to broadband.

ninjatutle
Premium
join:2006-01-02
San Ramon, CA

ninjatutle

Member

Re: Its none of their beezwax

Says you. I don't find anything wrong with minez. I have broadband and everyone I know has it or has access to it.
47717768 (banned)
join:2003-12-08
Birmingham, AL

47717768 (banned)

Member

Re: Its none of their beezwax

said by ninjatutle:

Says you. I don't find anything wrong with minez. I have broadband and everyone I know has it or has access to it.
I want fiber 100mbit.

ninjatutle
Premium
join:2006-01-02
San Ramon, CA

ninjatutle

Member

Re: Its none of their beezwax

You can have it now. Just call up your local telco and request the engineering dept. Tell'um you want fibre to your premises. They'll get back to you within a week with a quote.
47717768 (banned)
join:2003-12-08
Birmingham, AL

47717768 (banned)

Member

Re: Its none of their beezwax

said by ninjatutle:

You can have it now. Just call up your local telco and request the engineering dept. Tell'um you want fibre to your premises. They'll get back to you within a week with a quote.
I want it free and under $60 a month like Japan or Netherlands
matrix3D
join:2006-09-27
Middletown, CT

matrix3D

Member

Re: Its none of their beezwax

How do you get it for free while paying $60 a month?
47717768 (banned)
join:2003-12-08
Birmingham, AL

47717768 (banned)

Member

Re: Its none of their beezwax

said by matrix3D:

How do you get it for free while paying $60 a month?
I mean i should not pay anything to run fiber to my house and 100mbit service should cost under $60
Cyber2lz
join:2001-11-15
Odessa, FL

Cyber2lz

Member

Re: Its none of their beezwax

Oleg2000, according to your sig, you live BS (at&t) territory,.......
So, and I'm just guessing here, but that ain't happenin' soon!!!
Expand your moderator at work
53059959 (banned)
Temp banned from BBR more then anyone
join:2002-10-02
PwnZone

53059959 (banned) to 47717768

Member

to 47717768
give him a break, hes from alabama. they don't teach english there

Lark3po
Premium Member
join:2003-08-05
Madison, AL

Lark3po

Premium Member

Re: Its none of their beezwax

said by 53059959:

give him a break, hes from alabama. they don't teach english there
Do what?
PDXPLT
join:2003-12-04
Banks, OR

PDXPLT to ninjatutle

Member

to ninjatutle
said by ninjatutle:

I have broadband and everyone I know has it or has access to it.
What and insular little world you must live in.

'reminds of all you people down there who freaked out when that family from your neck of the woods came up here and got lost. You guys just couldn't understand how anyone could get lost in this day and age. 'like you think everywhere is like where you live, and there's a Starbucks on every corner.

ninjatutle
Premium
join:2006-01-02
San Ramon, CA

ninjatutle

Member

Re: Its none of their beezwax

No, we were freaked out on why anyone from this neck of the woods would want to travel to that part of the woods for.

eliopep
@verizon.net

eliopep to 47717768

Anon

to 47717768
Broadband isn't a right, it's a product. No one forces you to live in a certain geographical area. If your local supermarket doesn't carry a certain product, should you expect your govt to subsidize it and provide it for you?

Yauch
join:2005-06-24

Yauch

Member

Re: Its none of their beezwax

In the case of Apple Strudel Pop-Tarts: The answer is a resounding yes. GOVT REGULATION OF POP-TART FLAVORS NOW!

huntml
join:2002-01-23
Mullica Hill, NJ

huntml to eliopep

Member

to eliopep
This is what it comes down to, whether broadband is a generic product like pop-tarts or rutabagas, in which case it should be left to market forces to develop; or whether it is an essential product, a utility.

I personally have a hard time seeing it as anything other than a utility. In this day and time, data services are as essential to citizens' lives and to the economy as power, water, and POTS, clearly.

Do you think that these other utilities should be or have been deregulated to the extent broadband is? Were this the case, I would suggest that the US economy would never have been able to develop as it has.

TheBarbarian
BRB, pillaging...
join:2006-01-09
Kenosha, WI

TheBarbarian to eliopep

Member

to eliopep
To carry the analogy forward, the government does regulate what exactly goes into the products your supermarket carries. This sort of regulation is what allows you to buy a gallon of real milk, and not a gallon of milk-flavored chalk-water (true example).

I want a real-world definition of broadband, not the watered down version the communication companies provide.
47717768 (banned)
join:2003-12-08
Birmingham, AL

47717768 (banned) to ninjatutle

Member

to ninjatutle
Try to learn another language i had to learn English and i have seen Americans can't spell shit.

ninjatutle
Premium
join:2006-01-02
San Ramon, CA

ninjatutle

Member

Re: Its none of their beezwax

I've never seen shit misspelled. Maybe crap being spelled carp or turd being terd.

wolfox
Gentle Wolfox
join:2002-11-27
Dunnellon, FL

wolfox to 47717768

Member

to 47717768
said by 47717768:

Try to learn another language i had to learn English and i have seen Americans can't spell shit.
I haven't seen many Americans these days with any idea what grammar and punctuation were all about either. Back to school for all of you!

ninjatutle
Premium
join:2006-01-02
San Ramon, CA

ninjatutle

Member

I have no idea what this thread is about anymore
PDXPLT
join:2003-12-04
Banks, OR

PDXPLT

Member

Not just industry ...

quote:
The industry's fear is that if we knew exactly how limited deployment really was, the government might take action to correct the problem, which could mean new regulation and revenue loss.
It's not just industry, it's the free-market ideologues that control the FCC and the current Executive Branch. The 1996 Telecomm Act requires them to take action if the data suggests broadband isn't being deployed in a timely manner. And to these guys, philosophy and free-market theory are more important than reality. The last thing they want to have happen is to be presented with evidence of "market failure", and to be forced to intervene.

TScheisskopf
World News Trust
join:2005-02-13
Belvidere, NJ

1 recommendation

TScheisskopf

Member

Re: Not just industry ...

Well, what's another word for regulations?

Laws.

They want complete and utter deregulation, which means they want no laws to control them.

Nice work if you can get it. Thing is, you and I can't. We have to live within the strictures of the law every day. They, on the other hand, are somehow special and above all that. Perhaps demigods. Perhaps not.

You know, I once started wondering where all the hyper-aggressive white-boy cocaine dealers of the late '80s and early '90s went to.

Then I took a look at the business world and answered my own question.
PHOENIXZERO
join:2006-07-11
Beaverton, MI

PHOENIXZERO

Member

Now if only...

Now if only they cared about their customer's privacy as much as their own... I mean if they have nothing to really hide, why are they worried? Aside from their bogus competition excuse.

We really need to find a way to get big business and their lobbyist out of our government.
gaforces (banned)
United We Stand, Divided We Fall
join:2002-04-07
Santa Cruz, CA

4 edits

gaforces (banned)

Member

So close ...

Click for full size
Click for full size
Click for full size
Click for full size
The fiber is so close to me, yet so far behind the old copper ...
Those huge ugly black covers/splitters are for the cable guys.
ATT has some too farther down, its a mess, with those loop tennis racket looking inline wiring.
The squirrels use the lines to wander the neighborhoods and forage.

no_one
@PHNX.QWEST.NET

no_one

Anon

Re: So close ...

said by gaforces:

The fiber is so close to me, yet so far behind the old copper ...
Those huge ugly black covers/splitters are for the cable guys.
ATT has some too farther down, its a mess, with those loop tennis racket looking inline wiring.
The squirrels use the lines to wander the neighborhoods and forage.
So? Fiber will have boxes and cabling also. That probably will not be much better looking.
gaforces (banned)
United We Stand, Divided We Fall
join:2002-04-07
Santa Cruz, CA

gaforces (banned)

Member

Re: So close ...

said by no_one :
said by gaforces:

The fiber is so close to me, yet so far behind the old copper ...
Those huge ugly black covers/splitters are for the cable guys.
ATT has some too farther down, its a mess, with those loop tennis racket looking inline wiring.
The squirrels use the lines to wander the neighborhoods and forage.
So? Fiber will have boxes and cabling also. That probably will not be much better looking.
The benefit of having fiber outweighs any feeling of disgust of seeing the same crap every day

DC Guy
@myvzw.com

DC Guy

Anon

Markey's Bill passed already

Just an FYI -- this post seems to indicate that Markey was still seeking support for his bill.

The bill passed the House unanimously. The Senate bill was voted unanimously out of Committee, and should see a floor vote early next year. Industry got a lot of the good things taken out, but the bills still are a big improvement over the FCC's current Form 477 reporting requirements.

ipzedge2
@pacbell.net

ipzedge2

Anon

help is on it's way

with wi-max and other wireless tech
xenophon
join:2007-09-17

xenophon

Member

Re: help is on it's way

If EVDO is considered broadband, Sprint and Verizon already cover over 210 million population each. Add Alltel and it's much more than that.

ipzedge2
@pacbell.net

ipzedge2

Anon

Re: help is on it's way

xenophon
I cannot personally say I have used EVDO or other Services
but when I asked the salespeople in our town . the hardware cost was averaging $125 for a two-year contract and a price
of $60 a month for date only is that the same , on average , where you live? I sold for a little while the clearwire
services and the starting plan at that time was $45 a month
for 756 K up and down. if I want to use EVDO the cost for the
conversion box to hook up my PC is $200 . is this been your
prices where you live , also?

thank you

Piggie
Just A Pig With A Computer
Premium Member
join:2005-11-23
Orange Springs, FL

Piggie

Premium Member

They don't want us to know.


After the stock crash of most of the people in the fiber business around 2000, they know longer want investors to know how much bandwidth they have.

Gone are the days of bragging how much capacity they have, but rather poor mouthing as to the entire internet is on the brink of overload and we must throttle all traffic.

There is still a TON of unused backbone bandwidth. Some routers might be at their limit, but not the fiber. You will never heard them admit this again, just how they need to limit what they sell, raise prices due to the "shortage".

They learned well 7 years ago to make that mistake again and watch their stock prices plummet.

rogue_
I Have A Secret Window
Premium Member
join:2001-10-17
Lake Hiawatha, NJ

rogue_

Premium Member

...Sound the ALARMS! Sound the ALARMS!!! ALARMS!!!

And yet another twit realizes how to grab someones attention.
raye
Premium Member
join:2000-08-14
Orange, CA

raye

Premium Member

Broadband definition needs updating

I know it may come as a shock to many on this list, but 768K/128k is not broadband. If you cannot download AND upload video reasonably quickly than you do not have a broadband connection. Anything 1.5M/1.5M or better is broadband, because that is the minimum throughput by which one can upload/download video. 10M/10M is what really should be the minimum standard. But you have to start small; it looks like they cannot even get the 2 Mbps definition to pass.

The defnition of broadband in today's context is needed before you can accuratly measure broadband. You do not need a braodband connection to surf the web, read/send small e-mail messages, IM but today's internet is more than those things today.
satellite68
join:2007-04-11
Louisville, KY

satellite68

Member

Re: Broadband definition needs updating

quote:
If you cannot download AND upload video reasonably quickly than you do not have a broadband connection.
BWHAHAHHAHA! That's hilarious. Video UL/DL is what defines broadband?? One application, that's it?
qworster
join:2001-11-25
Bryn Mawr, PA

2 edits

qworster

Member

Follow the $$$!

If I recall, the telcos and cablecos have been paid PLENTY and also given big time tax breaks, accelerated deprecation, etc. to build statewide fiber networks that they simply never built. Why haven't we asked for the money back?

DannyZ
Gentoo Fanboy
Premium Member
join:2003-01-29
united state

DannyZ

Premium Member

Re: Follow the $$$!

because of course the telcos kicked back some of the tax breaks to the polititians thru lobbying and campaign contributions.

this is why Verizon will never see another penny from me; they got enough of my hard earned cash when I was a PA taxpayer
Edward1978
join:2007-07-23
De Soto, IL

Edward1978

Member

As long as you are in a city area

As for rural america, the phone & cable companies are to freaking chep to upgrade to a broadband system!!! I think people in areas without broadband service from the phone/cable companies should only have to pay half the bill. I mean really in is almost 2008!!!
neofast
join:2004-09-13
Weston, OR

neofast

Member

Wow... what a bunch of idiots

I run a small ISP in a rural part of the US. I DO NOT WANT THE FCC POKING ITS NOSE IN MY BUSINESS. I can survive competition, I can survive poor economic times... but I CANNOT SURVIVE GOVERNMENT. It is the only 100 percent lethal entity small business has to fear.

The telcos actually WANT the reporting done, so they know exactly how to kill off all the small ISP's who have their own infrastructure. Then millions of people will left to the kind and personal ministrations of the biggest telcos. Ever tried to get personal help from one of them?

I cannot believe you idiots actually WANT the government to take over the ISP business. Seriously, SHOW ME ONE EXAMPLE of how invasive regulation has dramatically decreased cost, increased competition in the market for consumers, and lowered the actual costs. Man, I just want to SURVIVE after putting my life's savings and years of work into my own 2-man enterprise, and the single biggest threat to my survival is not limited capital, poor economic performance, nor competition... it is government regulation, mandates, and interference. And if I go away, NOBODY will service most of my customers.

Government meddling has never improved a thing Government meddling = increased cost, lower availability, and reduced choices, EVERY TIME. Yet you crybabies are so wrapped up in your infantile " hate the corporations" nonsense that take completely irrational ideas and speak in slavish devotion to them.

Cato
@verizon.net

Cato

Anon

Re: Wow... what a bunch of idiots

Amen my Libertarian brother, you are right most of the public school taught lemmings have no idea on how the world works and only thing that galvanizes them is the call on how our country sucks etc.

More regulation has created nothing but more bureaucracy.

You lemmings want more broadband!...tell your local politicians at State, Local and City level to stop handing out franchises to their preferred telcos and cable co's and let everyone compete.