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U.S. Protectionists Paint Huawei as Evil Bogeyman
House Panel Opening 'Second Wave' of 'Investigation'
by Karl Bode 05:28PM Wednesday Oct 10 2012
On the heels of a House Intelligence Committee Report earlier this week accusing Chinese gear makers of being spies, the panel now says they're opening a "second phase" of the investigation. Chinese hardware makers Huawei and ZTE accused the Committee of simply engaging in hypocritical protectionism to prevent expansion into the smartphone and other markets. Despite the fact that the Committee doesn't have any hard evidence after eleven months of investigation, they're opening a second wave of inquiries after getting "dozens and dozens" of additional unspecified complaints about the companies:
quote:
A staff member of the House of Representatives Intelligence Committee said the panel has been receiving "dozens and dozens" of calls from current and former employees and customers reporting supposedly suspicious equipment behavior, chiefly involving Huawei. "I don't think the companies should expect our attention to stop," the staff member told Reuters, adding that the panel would follow up on new leads. The staffer was not authorized to speak publicly on the matter.
Despite Huawei's full cooperation, the panel didn't find much of anything wrong after a year of looking, and most analysts observe the government is simply trying to keep them out of the U.S. market by any means necessary -- including demanding they disprove repeatedly unproven accusations. The ham-fisted PR assault has at least been amusing; countless anonymous leaks keep popping up in press outlets worldwide alledging all manner of vague misdeeds, like this one by the CBC insisting that the panel has handed over unspecified evidence of "possible bribery and corruption."

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Simba7
I Void Warranties

join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT

Like I said in another thread..

The same could be told about Microsoft, Cisco, Juniper, and several other U.S. companies. Is there NSA-approved spyware part of the Windows OS? What about Cisco and Juniper, both U.S. networking equipment companies?

Not to mention this just *NOW* popped up? Now long have we been utilizing Chinese-developed gear without issues?

AnonFTW

@rr.com

Re: Like I said in another thread..

said by Simba7:

The same could be told about Microsoft, Cisco, Juniper, and several other U.S. companies. Is there NSA-approved spyware part of the Windows OS? What about Cisco and Juniper, both U.S. networking equipment companies?

Not to mention this just *NOW* popped up? Now long have we been utilizing Chinese-developed gear without issues?

This all boils down to where the companies originated, nothing more. As Karl noted, it's simple protectionism.

FFH
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5

1 edit

2 recommendations

Re: Like I said in another thread..

said by AnonFTW :

said by Simba7:

The same could be told about Microsoft, Cisco, Juniper, and several other U.S. companies. Is there NSA-approved spyware part of the Windows OS? What about Cisco and Juniper, both U.S. networking equipment companies?

Not to mention this just *NOW* popped up? Now long have we been utilizing Chinese-developed gear without issues?

This all boils down to where the companies originated, nothing more. As Karl noted, it's simple protectionism.

Karl is wrong. It is much more than simple protectionism. The US had put spyware(HW, Firmware, Software) in equipment sold overseas for years. Why do you thing the House Committee on Intelligence is so suspicious? They know for a fact how easy that is to do. China has used industrial espionage and military espionage against the US for years. Why should the US make that even easier to do by dealing with so-called private Chinese companies like Huawei & ZTE that are not so secretly controlled by the Chinese military.

It is one thing to allow spying thru the purchase of Chinese smartphones, modems, etc. But allowing them to control the backbone infrastructure that supports nuke plants, electric companies, gas companies. oil refineries, railroads, etc would be insanity.

And another poster that sees this too: »Re: Hah
--
»www.gop.com/2012-republican-platform_home/
»www.gop.com/2012-republican-plat···onalism/

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK

Re: Like I said in another thread..

We already do.

AnonFTW

@rr.com
Any proof?

I work in the defense security industry and I've never heard of wholesale inclusion of any sort of spying mechanism in equipment sold to foreign entities. In specialized cases sure, that happens all the time. But nothing wholesale ... there is simply too much risk for discovery.

FFH
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5

Re: Like I said in another thread..

said by AnonFTW :

Any proof?

I work in the defense security industry and I've never heard of wholesale inclusion of any sort of spying mechanism in equipment sold to foreign entities. In specialized cases sure, that happens all the time. But nothing wholesale ... there is simply too much risk for discovery.

Did I say anything about wholesale? Nice try at avoiding the subject. It has been done and is being done all the time.

»www.cbsnews.com/8301-502223_162-···hnology/
You don't think the US isn't putting in back doors on the stuff we are selling here?
--
»www.gop.com/2012-republican-platform_home/
»www.gop.com/2012-republican-plat···onalism/

AnonFTW

@rr.com

Re: Like I said in another thread..

said by FFH:

said by AnonFTW :

Any proof?

I work in the defense security industry and I've never heard of wholesale inclusion of any sort of spying mechanism in equipment sold to foreign entities. In specialized cases sure, that happens all the time. But nothing wholesale ... there is simply too much risk for discovery.

Did I say anything about wholesale? Nice try at avoiding the subject. It has been done and is being done all the time.

»www.cbsnews.com/8301-502223_162-···hnology/
You don't think the US isn't putting in back doors on the stuff we are selling here?

I'm not avoiding the subject, I think you're looking at the IC conclusion with too narrow a view.

Let me ask it another way.

Why should Huawei and ZTE not be allowed to sell to the American consumer?

FFH
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5

Re: Like I said in another thread..

said by AnonFTW :

Why should Huawei and ZTE not be allowed to sell to the American consumer?

Because they are controlled by Chinese government, which is still pursuing an economic war against the US.
--
»www.gop.com/2012-republican-platform_home/
»www.gop.com/2012-republican-plat···onalism/
funny0

join:2010-12-22

Re: Like I said in another thread..

said by FFH:

said by AnonFTW :

Why should Huawei and ZTE not be allowed to sell to the American consumer?

Because they are controlled by Chinese government, which is still pursuing an economic war against the US.

the chinese won the war bud bend over and kiss it....

spewak
R.I.P Dadkins
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said by FFH:

said by AnonFTW :

Why should Huawei and ZTE not be allowed to sell to the American consumer?

Because they are controlled by Chinese government, which is still pursuing an economic war against the US.

There was an excellent segment on 60 Minutes concerning the link between the Founder of wahway (whatever) and the Communist party. Very interesting piece.
--

Romney equals Epic Fail!
sandman_1

join:2011-04-23
11111
said by FFH:

said by AnonFTW :

Why should Huawei and ZTE not be allowed to sell to the American consumer?

Because they are controlled by Chinese government, which is still pursuing an economic war against the US.

Huh, you do know that borrow billions from China? They don't need a war with us. They got us by the proverbial balls already. You can thank the Dems and Republicans for that.
moonpuppy

join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD

Re: Like I said in another thread..

said by sandman_1:

Huh, you do know that borrow billions from China? They don't need a war with us. They got us by the proverbial balls already. You can thank the Dems and Republicans for that.

Umm, no, they do not. All we have to do is default and both our economies would be hurting but theirs would be devastated since all their monetary security would be wiped out.
sandman_1

join:2011-04-23
11111

Re: Like I said in another thread..

Yea keep on thinking that. I hope it makes you feel all safe and cozy at night.
moonpuppy

join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD

Re: Like I said in another thread..

said by sandman_1:

Yea keep on thinking that. I hope it makes you feel all safe and cozy at night.

Actually, it does. China needs us more than we need them.

Simba7
I Void Warranties

join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT
said by sandman_1:

They got us by the proverbial balls already. You can thank the Dems and Republicans for that.

No, you can thank the people for that. People want high speed internet access, but deploying it costs money. If you can get it done cheaply, it can be deployed faster.

..then people bitch about the equipment coming from China. Hey, you wanted HSI.. Would you like to pay twice as much for your internet access and have it take a little longer?

Most of the people don't give a rats ass where the equipment comes from as long as it works like it supposed to and is reliable and stable.
--
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Warez_Zealot

join:2006-04-19
Vancouver
said by AnonFTW :

Any proof?

I work in the defense security industry and I've never heard of wholesale inclusion of any sort of spying mechanism in equipment sold to foreign entities. In specialized cases sure, that happens all the time. But nothing wholesale ... there is simply too much risk for discovery.

That's what I think. All they would be able to do is redirect traffic and that would get caught pretty quickly.

All things considered, compromising actually host pc/servers will provide much higher quality of information.
--
"You're not supposed to be so blind with patriotism that you can't face reality. Wrong is wrong, no matter who says it."-Malcolm X


Snowy
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said by AnonFTW :

This all boils down to where the companies originated, nothing more. As Karl noted, it's simple protectionism.

Call it roundism, squareism, triangleism, octagonalism etc...
I've no problem with whatever label is placed on a security issue.
The eventual outcome is neither here nor there too.
The point is that when you blow into town you're scrutinized with a fine tooth comb before you're given the keys to the city.
elefante72

join:2010-12-03
East Amherst, NY

1 recommendation

Memo to Congress:

That mike you are speaking into was made in China and it's bugged.

It's about time the US is practicing old skool mercantilism. It's what made every industrial power great.

In any case I have zero doubt that this is a national security issue.
Killersaurus

join:2012-09-17
said by Simba7:

Now long have we been utilizing Chinese-developed gear without issues?

"Chinese-developed" is a total minomer. They outright steal all of the designs that they sell. The reason their prices are so cheap is because Cisco is their entire R&D department.
Killersaurus

join:2012-09-17
duplicate
covfam

join:2012-03-05
Black River Falls, WI

Hah

Funny how these cellphones from china are a threat but other internet enabled electronic manufactured or partially manufaactured by china are currently being used in every level of the government, law enforcement,science,military,education,healthcare,national infrastructure and yet those apparantly are not a security threat!
No the threat to national security are cheap cellphones sold to soccer moms! and lets forget that most every brand of cellphone sold in the usa are at least partly manufactured in china as well ... wonder why they arent a threat?
altdel

join:2003-08-20
Danville, CA

Re: Hah

Yeah, all iPhones are made in China. I know ... that's why I don't own one.

Thaler
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Los Angeles, CA
kudos:3

Re: Hah

You don't own anything made in China? How are you online?

jimk
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said by covfam:

Funny how these cellphones from china are a threat but other internet enabled electronic manufactured or partially manufaactured by china are currently being used in every level of the government, law enforcement,science,military,education,healthcare,national infrastructure and yet those apparantly are not a security threat!
No the threat to national security are cheap cellphones sold to soccer moms! and lets forget that most every brand of cellphone sold in the usa are at least partly manufactured in china as well ... wonder why they arent a threat?

I don't think Huawei and ZTE phones are the concern. It is the *infrastructure equipment* installed by carriers within their network... whether it is the radio (for example GSM/UMTS/LTE BTS BTS), core (IMS, HLR, etc), or transport side.

It also isn't just manufacturing in China that is the concern (it should be a concern that we have so little capacity to manufacture any of the products that we depend on, but that's a topic for another thread and is way more complicated than just blaming any one political party). The possible control of these companies by the Chinese government is the big concern here.

morbo
Complete Your Transaction

join:2002-01-22
00000
Reviews:
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Re: Hah

said by jimk:

The possible control of these companies by the Chinese government is the big concern here.

Only WE can spy on our citizens digitally. Isn't that the NSA's motto?
Kord

join:2006-10-27

Lobbyist

Doing some good for a change.

Noah Vail
Son made my Avatar
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In related news:

Cisco kills years old relationship w/ ZTE after Cisco 'discovers' ZTE has been selling massive amounts of Cisco hardware to Iran in violation of the US Embargo.

said by Reuters :

Cisco Systems Inc. has ended a longstanding sales partnership with ZTE Corp after an internal investigation into allegations that the Chinese telecommunications equipment maker sold Cisco networking gear to Iran.

Cisco's probe followed stories by Reuters in March and April that documented how Shenzhen, China-based ZTE had sold banned computer equipment from Cisco and other U.S. companies to Iran's largest telecom firm.

So Cisco had no idea at all that loads of it's equipment was winding up in Iran; until Reuters began looking into it.

In 7 years no one from Iran made a tech support call to Cisco?
--
Campaign contributions influence laws through a process called bribery.

djdanska
Rudie32
Premium,MVM
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Re: In related news:

said by Noah Vail:

Cisco kills years old relationship w/ ZTE after Cisco 'discovers' ZTE has been selling massive amounts of Cisco hardware to Iran in violation of the US Embargo.

said by Reuters :

Cisco Systems Inc. has ended a longstanding sales partnership with ZTE Corp after an internal investigation into allegations that the Chinese telecommunications equipment maker sold Cisco networking gear to Iran.

Cisco's probe followed stories by Reuters in March and April that documented how Shenzhen, China-based ZTE had sold banned computer equipment from Cisco and other U.S. companies to Iran's largest telecom firm.

So Cisco had no idea at all that loads of it's equipment was winding up in Iran; until Reuters began looking into it.

In 7 years no one from Iran made a tech support call to Cisco?

They turned a blind eye until they got caught. Do you think they stopped? I've seen pictures of malls from Iran that had all types of electronics. All types. (fake gps on the android play store. LOL)
--
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Alden Nowlan
hoyleysox
Premium
join:2003-11-07
Long Beach, CA

Microsoft is so much safer

Trust microsoft.

DownTheShore
Honoring The Captain
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Sometimes A Little Protectionism Isn't A Bad Thing

If we had practiced it a little more judiciously in the past, perhaps we wouldn't have lost so many core industries to overseas manufacturers.

The Chinese government still has too much control over its businesses and its citizenry. When it says "jump", the businesses still automatically respond "how high?". I'd rather we take it slower with their takeover of various markets, rather than just let it on their own timeframe, and a year down the line find out that all of our private data is now in servers somewhere in China, and be dependent on public outrage forcing supposed erasure.
--
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I want to retire to the Isle of Sodor and ride the trains.


elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in
kudos:2

Same in Canada

Our government is going to bar Huawei from bidding on a contract to build a new government telecommunications infrastructure.
funny0

join:2010-12-22

Re: Same in Canada

said by elwoodblues:

Our government is going to bar Huawei from bidding on a contract to build a new government telecommunications infrastructure.

no it wont , too much bribe money already taken....and too much down the road to profit.... not for canada but themselves....

NOCTech75
Premium
join:2009-06-29
Marietta, GA

Chinese spying on us is bad?

But the US government illegally tapping every single form of communication to the point where a new data warehouse is needed is ok?
big_e

join:2011-03-05

Just ask Iran.

Buying equipment designed and manufactured by their enemies worked out really well for their nuclear enrichment program... That was until Siemens supplied critical information that allowed the US government to create Stuxnet which sabotaged the Iranian nuclear facilities.

djdanska
Rudie32
Premium,MVM
join:2001-04-21
San Diego, CA
kudos:4

Not bad..

My 4g hotspot from t-mobile is made by Huawei. I have to admit, this thing works a hell of a lot better than the verizon lte one i have. Best reception of all the phones i have.
jam_bongo

join:2002-07-17
Toronto, ON

Re: Not bad..

well of course it's a clear connection, you don't expect them to tap your line on a flaky one do you?

dib22

join:2002-01-27
Kansas City, MO

1 edit

Has anyone actually checked the firmware?

Just curious if anyone ever published exploits found...

If anything using this equipment would force companies to pay attention to their security.

Surely we found something if we are going to all this fuss right?

Nevermind found this (»arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012···ivities/)

quote:
For now, Huawei and ZTE have proposed a technical solution to the security questions concerning their hardware. In the United Kingdom, Huawei's hardware and software is independently tested by the Cyber Security Evaluation Centre (and by technicians with government security clearances) before it is authorized for use in the national telecommunications infrastructure. The Select Committee's investigation did not delve into the security of any of ZTE's hardware or software products—"the expertise of the Committee does not lend itself to comprehensive reviews of particular pieces of equipment," as the report noted. But the Select Committee's report challenges that approach, saying that evaluating individual components would "provide a sense of security," but a false one. "The task of finding and eliminating every significant vulnerability from a complex product is monumental. If we also consider flaws intentionally inserted by a determined and clever insider, the task becomes virtually impossible."


bbchris2nd
Joke Factory

join:2010-09-03
Australia

Just Imagine Without Chinese products

Grocery stores would be empty.

Life is so lonely.
RobertJTownley

join:2001-04-13
Omaha, NE

Nortel was likely hacked by Huawei for 10 years ...dead now.

Nortel was hacked wide open for 10 years most likely by Huawei. Huawei stole everything until Nortel could not compete ... now they are out of business.

»threatpost.com/en_us/blogs/decad···e-021512