SimbaSevenI Void Warranties join:2003-03-24 Billings, MT ·StarLink
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Like I said in another thread..The same could be told about Microsoft, Cisco, Juniper, and several other U.S. companies. Is there NSA-approved spyware part of the Windows OS? What about Cisco and Juniper, both U.S. networking equipment companies?
Not to mention this just *NOW* popped up? Now long have we been utilizing Chinese-developed gear without issues? | |
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AnonFTW
Anon
2012-Oct-10 3:51 pm
Re: Like I said in another thread..said by SimbaSeven:The same could be told about Microsoft, Cisco, Juniper, and several other U.S. companies. Is there NSA-approved spyware part of the Windows OS? What about Cisco and Juniper, both U.S. networking equipment companies?
Not to mention this just *NOW* popped up? Now long have we been utilizing Chinese-developed gear without issues? This all boils down to where the companies originated, nothing more. As Karl noted, it's simple protectionism. | |
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| | FFH5 Premium Member join:2002-03-03 Tavistock NJ 1 edit
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FFH5
Premium Member
2012-Oct-10 4:20 pm
Re: Like I said in another thread..said by AnonFTW :said by SimbaSeven:The same could be told about Microsoft, Cisco, Juniper, and several other U.S. companies. Is there NSA-approved spyware part of the Windows OS? What about Cisco and Juniper, both U.S. networking equipment companies?
Not to mention this just *NOW* popped up? Now long have we been utilizing Chinese-developed gear without issues? This all boils down to where the companies originated, nothing more. As Karl noted, it's simple protectionism. Karl is wrong. It is much more than simple protectionism. The US had put spyware(HW, Firmware, Software) in equipment sold overseas for years. Why do you thing the House Committee on Intelligence is so suspicious? They know for a fact how easy that is to do. China has used industrial espionage and military espionage against the US for years. Why should the US make that even easier to do by dealing with so-called private Chinese companies like Huawei & ZTE that are not so secretly controlled by the Chinese military. It is one thing to allow spying thru the purchase of Chinese smartphones, modems, etc. But allowing them to control the backbone infrastructure that supports nuke plants, electric companies, gas companies. oil refineries, railroads, etc would be insanity. And another poster that sees this too: » Re: Hah | |
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| | | KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little Guy Premium Member join:2000-01-17 Tulsa, OK |
KrK
Premium Member
2012-Oct-10 4:43 pm
Re: Like I said in another thread..We already do. | |
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AnonFTW to FFH5
Anon
2012-Oct-10 4:53 pm
to FFH5
Any proof?
I work in the defense security industry and I've never heard of wholesale inclusion of any sort of spying mechanism in equipment sold to foreign entities. In specialized cases sure, that happens all the time. But nothing wholesale ... there is simply too much risk for discovery. | |
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| | | | FFH5 Premium Member join:2002-03-03 Tavistock NJ |
FFH5
Premium Member
2012-Oct-10 5:45 pm
Re: Like I said in another thread..said by AnonFTW :Any proof?
I work in the defense security industry and I've never heard of wholesale inclusion of any sort of spying mechanism in equipment sold to foreign entities. In specialized cases sure, that happens all the time. But nothing wholesale ... there is simply too much risk for discovery. Did I say anything about wholesale? Nice try at avoiding the subject. It has been done and is being done all the time. » www.cbsnews.com/8301-502 ··· hnology/You don't think the US isn't putting in back doors on the stuff we are selling here? | |
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AnonFTW
Anon
2012-Oct-10 7:47 pm
Re: Like I said in another thread..said by FFH5:said by AnonFTW :Any proof?
I work in the defense security industry and I've never heard of wholesale inclusion of any sort of spying mechanism in equipment sold to foreign entities. In specialized cases sure, that happens all the time. But nothing wholesale ... there is simply too much risk for discovery. Did I say anything about wholesale? Nice try at avoiding the subject. It has been done and is being done all the time. » www.cbsnews.com/8301-502 ··· hnology/You don't think the US isn't putting in back doors on the stuff we are selling here? I'm not avoiding the subject, I think you're looking at the IC conclusion with too narrow a view. Let me ask it another way. Why should Huawei and ZTE not be allowed to sell to the American consumer? | |
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| | | | | | FFH5 Premium Member join:2002-03-03 Tavistock NJ |
FFH5
Premium Member
2012-Oct-10 7:49 pm
Re: Like I said in another thread..said by AnonFTW :Why should Huawei and ZTE not be allowed to sell to the American consumer? Because they are controlled by Chinese government, which is still pursuing an economic war against the US. | |
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funny0
Member
2012-Oct-10 10:21 pm
Re: Like I said in another thread..said by FFH5:said by AnonFTW :Why should Huawei and ZTE not be allowed to sell to the American consumer? Because they are controlled by Chinese government, which is still pursuing an economic war against the US. the chinese won the war bud bend over and kiss it.... | |
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| | | | | | | spewakR.I.P Dadkins Premium Member join:2001-08-07 Elk Grove, CA ·Consolidated Com..
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spewak to FFH5
Premium Member
2012-Oct-10 10:39 pm
to FFH5
said by FFH5:said by AnonFTW :Why should Huawei and ZTE not be allowed to sell to the American consumer? Because they are controlled by Chinese government, which is still pursuing an economic war against the US. There was an excellent segment on 60 Minutes concerning the link between the Founder of wahway (whatever) and the Communist party. Very interesting piece. | |
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to FFH5
said by FFH5:said by AnonFTW :Why should Huawei and ZTE not be allowed to sell to the American consumer? Because they are controlled by Chinese government, which is still pursuing an economic war against the US. Huh, you do know that borrow billions from China? They don't need a war with us. They got us by the proverbial balls already. You can thank the Dems and Republicans for that. | |
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| | | | | | | | moonpuppy (banned) join:2000-08-21 Glen Burnie, MD |
moonpuppy (banned)
Member
2012-Oct-11 8:10 am
Re: Like I said in another thread..said by sandman_1:Huh, you do know that borrow billions from China? They don't need a war with us. They got us by the proverbial balls already. You can thank the Dems and Republicans for that. Umm, no, they do not. All we have to do is default and both our economies would be hurting but theirs would be devastated since all their monetary security would be wiped out. | |
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Re: Like I said in another thread..Yea keep on thinking that. I hope it makes you feel all safe and cozy at night. | |
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| | | | | | | | | moonpuppy (banned) join:2000-08-21 Glen Burnie, MD |
moonpuppy (banned)
Member
2012-Oct-12 7:49 am
Re: Like I said in another thread..said by sandman_1:Yea keep on thinking that. I hope it makes you feel all safe and cozy at night. Actually, it does. China needs us more than we need them. | |
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| | | | | | | | SimbaSevenI Void Warranties join:2003-03-24 Billings, MT ·StarLink
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to sandman_1
said by sandman_1:They got us by the proverbial balls already. You can thank the Dems and Republicans for that. No, you can thank the people for that. People want high speed internet access, but deploying it costs money. If you can get it done cheaply, it can be deployed faster. ..then people bitch about the equipment coming from China. Hey, you wanted HSI.. Would you like to pay twice as much for your internet access and have it take a little longer? Most of the people don't give a rats ass where the equipment comes from as long as it works like it supposed to and is reliable and stable. | |
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to AnonFTW
said by AnonFTW :Any proof?
I work in the defense security industry and I've never heard of wholesale inclusion of any sort of spying mechanism in equipment sold to foreign entities. In specialized cases sure, that happens all the time. But nothing wholesale ... there is simply too much risk for discovery. That's what I think. All they would be able to do is redirect traffic and that would get caught pretty quickly. All things considered, compromising actually host pc/servers will provide much higher quality of information. | |
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| | SnowyLock him up!!! Premium Member join:2003-04-05 Kailua, HI |
to AnonFTW
said by AnonFTW :This all boils down to where the companies originated, nothing more. As Karl noted, it's simple protectionism. Call it roundism, squareism, triangleism, octagonalism etc... I've no problem with whatever label is placed on a security issue. The eventual outcome is neither here nor there too. The point is that when you blow into town you're scrutinized with a fine tooth comb before you're given the keys to the city. | |
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to SimbaSeven
Memo to Congress:
That mike you are speaking into was made in China and it's bugged.
It's about time the US is practicing old skool mercantilism. It's what made every industrial power great.
In any case I have zero doubt that this is a national security issue. | |
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to SimbaSeven
said by SimbaSeven:Now long have we been utilizing Chinese-developed gear without issues? "Chinese-developed" is a total minomer. They outright steal all of the designs that they sell. The reason their prices are so cheap is because Cisco is their entire R&D department. | |
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covfam join:2012-03-05 Black River Falls, WI |
covfam
Member
2012-Oct-10 3:58 pm
HahFunny how these cellphones from china are a threat but other internet enabled electronic manufactured or partially manufaactured by china are currently being used in every level of the government, law enforcement,science,military,education,healthcare,national infrastructure and yet those apparantly are not a security threat! No the threat to national security are cheap cellphones sold to soccer moms! and lets forget that most every brand of cellphone sold in the usa are at least partly manufactured in china as well ... wonder why they arent a threat? | |
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| altdel join:2003-08-20 Danville, CA |
altdel
Member
2012-Oct-10 4:49 pm
Re: HahYeah, all iPhones are made in China. I know ... that's why I don't own one. | |
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| | Thaler Premium Member join:2004-02-02 Los Angeles, CA |
Thaler
Premium Member
2012-Oct-10 5:26 pm
Re: HahYou don't own anything made in China? How are you online? | |
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| j1349705 Premium Member join:2006-04-15 Holly Springs, NC
1 recommendation |
to covfam
said by covfam:Funny how these cellphones from china are a threat but other internet enabled electronic manufactured or partially manufaactured by china are currently being used in every level of the government, law enforcement,science,military,education,healthcare,national infrastructure and yet those apparantly are not a security threat! No the threat to national security are cheap cellphones sold to soccer moms! and lets forget that most every brand of cellphone sold in the usa are at least partly manufactured in china as well ... wonder why they arent a threat? I don't think Huawei and ZTE phones are the concern. It is the *infrastructure equipment* installed by carriers within their network... whether it is the radio (for example GSM/UMTS/LTE BTS BTS), core (IMS, HLR, etc), or transport side. It also isn't just manufacturing in China that is the concern (it should be a concern that we have so little capacity to manufacture any of the products that we depend on, but that's a topic for another thread and is way more complicated than just blaming any one political party). The possible control of these companies by the Chinese government is the big concern here. | |
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| | morboComplete Your Transaction join:2002-01-22 00000 |
morbo
Member
2012-Oct-10 5:36 pm
Re: Hahsaid by j1349705:The possible control of these companies by the Chinese government is the big concern here. Only WE can spy on our citizens digitally. Isn't that the NSA's motto? | |
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Kord
Member
2012-Oct-10 5:30 pm
LobbyistDoing some good for a change. | |
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Noah VailOh God please no. Premium Member join:2004-12-10 SouthAmerica |
In related news:Cisco kills years old relationship w/ ZTE after Cisco 'discovers' ZTE has been selling massive amounts of Cisco hardware to Iran in violation of the US Embargo. said by Reuters :Cisco Systems Inc. has ended a longstanding sales partnership with ZTE Corp after an internal investigation into allegations that the Chinese telecommunications equipment maker sold Cisco networking gear to Iran.
Cisco's probe followed stories by Reuters in March and April that documented how Shenzhen, China-based ZTE had sold banned computer equipment from Cisco and other U.S. companies to Iran's largest telecom firm. So Cisco had no idea at all that loads of it's equipment was winding up in Iran; until Reuters began looking into it. In 7 years no one from Iran made a tech support call to Cisco? | |
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| djdanskaRudie32 Premium Member join:2001-04-21 San Diego, CA |
djdanska
Premium Member
2012-Oct-10 7:48 pm
Re: In related news:said by Noah Vail:Cisco kills years old relationship w/ ZTE after Cisco 'discovers' ZTE has been selling massive amounts of Cisco hardware to Iran in violation of the US Embargo. said by Reuters :Cisco Systems Inc. has ended a longstanding sales partnership with ZTE Corp after an internal investigation into allegations that the Chinese telecommunications equipment maker sold Cisco networking gear to Iran.
Cisco's probe followed stories by Reuters in March and April that documented how Shenzhen, China-based ZTE had sold banned computer equipment from Cisco and other U.S. companies to Iran's largest telecom firm. So Cisco had no idea at all that loads of it's equipment was winding up in Iran; until Reuters began looking into it. In 7 years no one from Iran made a tech support call to Cisco? They turned a blind eye until they got caught. Do you think they stopped? I've seen pictures of malls from Iran that had all types of electronics. All types. (fake gps on the android play store. LOL) | |
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banner Premium Member join:2003-11-07 Long Beach, CA |
banner
Premium Member
2012-Oct-10 5:56 pm
Microsoft is so much saferTrust microsoft. | |
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DownTheShorePray for Ukraine Premium Member join:2003-12-02 Beautiful NJ |
Sometimes A Little Protectionism Isn't A Bad ThingIf we had practiced it a little more judiciously in the past, perhaps we wouldn't have lost so many core industries to overseas manufacturers.
The Chinese government still has too much control over its businesses and its citizenry. When it says "jump", the businesses still automatically respond "how high?". I'd rather we take it slower with their takeover of various markets, rather than just let it on their own timeframe, and a year down the line find out that all of our private data is now in servers somewhere in China, and be dependent on public outrage forcing supposed erasure. | |
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elwoodbluesElwood Blues Premium Member join:2006-08-30 Somewhere in |
Same in CanadaOur government is going to bar Huawei from bidding on a contract to build a new government telecommunications infrastructure. | |
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funny0
Member
2012-Oct-10 10:22 pm
Re: Same in Canadasaid by elwoodblues:Our government is going to bar Huawei from bidding on a contract to build a new government telecommunications infrastructure. no it wont , too much bribe money already taken....and too much down the road to profit.... not for canada but themselves.... | |
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NOCTech75 Premium Member join:2009-06-29 Marietta, GA |
Chinese spying on us is bad?But the US government illegally tapping every single form of communication to the point where a new data warehouse is needed is ok? | |
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big_e
Member
2012-Oct-10 7:03 pm
Just ask Iran.Buying equipment designed and manufactured by their enemies worked out really well for their nuclear enrichment program... That was until Siemens supplied critical information that allowed the US government to create Stuxnet which sabotaged the Iranian nuclear facilities. | |
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djdanskaRudie32 Premium Member join:2001-04-21 San Diego, CA |
djdanska
Premium Member
2012-Oct-10 7:46 pm
Not bad..My 4g hotspot from t-mobile is made by Huawei. I have to admit, this thing works a hell of a lot better than the verizon lte one i have. Best reception of all the phones i have. | |
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Re: Not bad..well of course it's a clear connection, you don't expect them to tap your line on a flaky one do you? | |
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dib22 join:2002-01-27 Kansas City, MO 1 edit |
dib22
Member
2012-Oct-11 12:33 am
Has anyone actually checked the firmware?Just curious if anyone ever published exploits found... If anything using this equipment would force companies to pay attention to their security. Surely we found something if we are going to all this fuss right? Nevermind found this (» arstechnica.com/tech-pol ··· ivities/) quote: For now, Huawei and ZTE have proposed a technical solution to the security questions concerning their hardware. In the United Kingdom, Huawei's hardware and software is independently tested by the Cyber Security Evaluation Centre (and by technicians with government security clearances) before it is authorized for use in the national telecommunications infrastructure. The Select Committee's investigation did not delve into the security of any of ZTE's hardware or software products"the expertise of the Committee does not lend itself to comprehensive reviews of particular pieces of equipment," as the report noted. But the Select Committee's report challenges that approach, saying that evaluating individual components would "provide a sense of security," but a false one. "The task of finding and eliminating every significant vulnerability from a complex product is monumental. If we also consider flaws intentionally inserted by a determined and clever insider, the task becomes virtually impossible."
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Just Imagine Without Chinese productsGrocery stores would be empty.
Life is so lonely. | |
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Nortel was likely hacked by Huawei for 10 years ...dead now.Nortel was hacked wide open for 10 years most likely by Huawei. Huawei stole everything until Nortel could not compete ... now they are out of business. » threatpost.com/en_us/blo ··· e-021512 | |
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