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U.S. Ranks 23rd In Broadband Development
Lack of competition makes U.S. broadband mediocre, expensive
According to research firm Strategy Analytics, The United States ranks 23rd out of 57 countries in terms of "broadband development." As Strategy Analytics defines it, these broadband development rankings are based on five categories: household penetration, speed, affordability, value for money, and urbanicity. "With essentially zero intra-platform competition, US service providers have little incentive to innovate offerings or differentiate beyond par," said Piper. Given we only just started collecting real data and our first ever national broadband plan completely fails to address competition, it's not clear that this lack of "incentive" is going to change anytime soon. In other words, enjoy your frequently mediocre and overpriced broadband service.
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dsoegiarto
join:2010-04-16
Ottawa, ON

dsoegiarto

Member

Canada?

how bout Canada??
Feramors
join:2010-05-07
Saint Louis, MO

Feramors

Member

Re: Canada?

No idea!

...but you CAN buy the article for $6,999.00!
openbox9
Premium Member
join:2004-01-26
71144

openbox9 to dsoegiarto

Premium Member

to dsoegiarto
For $6,999 you might find out
Joe12345678
join:2003-07-22
Des Plaines, IL

Joe12345678 to dsoegiarto

Member

to dsoegiarto
said by dsoegiarto:

how bout Canada??
There caps make comcasts 250g seem to be real good.
hehbo2k3
join:2003-02-03

1 recommendation

hehbo2k3

Member

did they forget something

These reports never seem to acknowledge the fact that the US has a much sparser population density than nearly any of the European countries we are "competing" against. Shouldn't this be a huge factor in all 5 of those categories mentioned?

Z80A
Premium Member
join:2009-11-23

Z80A

Premium Member

Re: did they forget something

How dare you interrupt the America Sucks circlejerk!?!

Frank
Premium Member
join:2000-11-03
somewhere

3 recommendations

Frank to hehbo2k3

Premium Member

to hehbo2k3
said by hehbo2k3:

These reports never seem to acknowledge the fact that the US has a much sparser population density than nearly any of the European countries we are "competing" against. Shouldn't this be a huge factor in all 5 of those categories mentioned?
if that were true then the densely populated cities of the united states (nyc, la, etc.) would at least be on par with the densely populated cities outside of the united states.

in other words, i'd believe you if I saw 1gbps internet connections for $50 in NYC like I see in other cities with similar population densities and the rural areas were still unwired,

SpaethCo
Digital Plumber
MVM
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN

SpaethCo

MVM

Re: did they forget something

said by Frank:

in other words, i'd believe you if I saw 1gbps internet connections for $50 in NYC like I see in other cities with similar population densities and the rural areas were still unwired,
While not the unrealistic $50 price level for gig, Paxio is still delivering competitive services in the highly dense San Francisco bay area market:

»www.paxio.com/Residentia ··· internet
Ulmo
join:2005-09-22
Aptos, CA

Ulmo

Member

Re: did they forget something

said by SpaethCo:

said by Frank:

in other words, i'd believe you if I saw 1gbps internet connections for $50 in NYC like I see in other cities with similar population densities and the rural areas were still unwired,
While not the unrealistic $50 price level for gig, Paxio is still delivering competitive services in the highly dense San Francisco bay area market:

»www.paxio.com/Residentia ··· internet
I have been religious about attempting to get every type of Internet there is in San Jose, and so far, I have not seen what you are talking about being real (actual delivery); the best we got in January was Comcast DOCSIS 3.0 with 50/10 service, which is a far bit better than we had before.

I just sent an inquiry to paxio.com. If they are real, I'll get it installed. If not, you're just regurgitating bogus data.

joebarnhart
Paxio evangelist
join:2005-12-15
Santa Clara, CA

joebarnhart

Member

Re: did they forget something

Yep. They're real...



(Dunno why the upload doesn't show 100M like the download, but it actually transfers files at that speed.)

Paxio's footprint is small but growing...
Ulmo
join:2005-09-22
Aptos, CA

Ulmo

Member

Re: did they forget something

Ok, thanks for that. It's real, for you definately. However, it is not that real, since I just got this email from Paxio (excerpted):

"Your address does not currently have PAXIO service available,"

They then go on to offer applying for a business case to be made to bring it to my address. Of course I consider that the right approach: that's open for business (no losses but willing to consider gains). However, just because it's a reasonable approach doesn't make it "an available option". It just makes it an option in some places.

I spent 15 minutes looking for the time-based coverage map, or any coverage map at all, or any description of its coverage, and found nothing, so there's no indication that its business model = substantial availability growth, except your statement that its footprint is growing. How is it growing?

So, I repeat: AT&T is stuck at 768kbps/384kbps, and the other option is Comcast. There's no Sonic Fusion, Paxio, or anything else I'm aware of. AT&T U-Verse, while available at my address, is restricted to those that meet extremely restrictive credit reporting agency specifications, unlike all the other carriers, so while you can hawk AT&T's business choices all you want, it is therefore unavailable and not reality. That means Comcast is the only game in town, which means it is a monopoly.

NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
TP-Link TD-8616
Asus RT-AC66U B1
Netgear FR114P

1 edit

NormanS

MVM

Re: did they forget something

said by Ulmo:

That means Comcast is the only game in town, which means it is a monopoly.
In your neighborhood, but in in the entire town.

joebarnhart
Paxio evangelist
join:2005-12-15
Santa Clara, CA

1 recommendation

joebarnhart to Ulmo

Member

to Ulmo
I know that Paxio partnered with Pulte Homes in some San Jose communities. I think one was called Mariana Square. Another was Altura (close to Santa Clara). I live in Talavera, a Santa Clara Pulte community. Paxio has more (non-Pulte) projects in the area as well. I just thought of the Pulte ones off the top of my head.

If you have a Homeowner's Association you can probably get the fiber brought to your area. If you live in an apartment or condo, you can probably get the fiber as well. The hardest area for Paxio to reach is a patch of single-family homes with no HOA because there's no critical mass of people to deal with.

Don't just lie there and let Comcast or AT&T do anything they want to you. Look into that "fiber advocate" stuff and help Paxio get a fiber into your community. Or, the next time you move, look for a place with fiber already installed.
dlewis23
join:2005-04-18
Boca Raton, FL

dlewis23 to hehbo2k3

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to hehbo2k3
Thats because they don't care about facts like the US 96 times larger then South Korea.

One might think that might make it just a little easier to bring broadband to everyone in South Korea.

I wouldn't be surprised if the US never ranks #1 or even in the top 5 in these types of list. Our physical size and population density will always be a problem for broadband.

toro
join:2006-01-27
Scarborough, ON

toro to hehbo2k3

Member

to hehbo2k3
Just forget about the rural penetration and compare the speeds (and prices) for high density urban areas. You'll see there's still a huge difference.
And in Canada it's even worse.

cork1958
Cork
Premium Member
join:2000-02-26

cork1958

Premium Member

Re: did they forget something

said by toro:

Just forget about the rural penetration and compare the speeds (and prices) for high density urban areas. You'll see there's still a huge difference.
And in Canada it's even worse.
Yeah, who cares where we rank in penetration. It should be all about the speed/price comparison.

Why are we being raped so badly?

SpaethCo
Digital Plumber
MVM
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN

SpaethCo

MVM

Re: did they forget something

said by cork1958:

Yeah, who cares where we rank in penetration. It should be all about the speed/price comparison.

Why are we being raped so badly?
These numbers don't include a very important statistic: oversubscription ratios.

12:1 oversubscription on 20mbps access can have vastly different performance than 50:1 oversubscription on 100mbps access.

tmh
@qwest.net

tmh to hehbo2k3

Anon

to hehbo2k3
said by hehbo2k3:

These reports never seem to acknowledge the fact that the US has a much sparser population density than nearly any of the European countries we are "competing" against. Shouldn't this be a huge factor in all 5 of those categories mentioned?
Excuses excuses.

We're still in the middle of the pack, behind Estonia (#19) and Latvia(#18), but hey! They're much smaller nations than America, so of course these little putt-putt nations deserve to kick our butt.

There's no excuse for being #23 folks.
nasadude
join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD

nasadude

Member

Re: did they forget something

said by tmh :

...

There's no excuse for being #23 folks.
but there is lots of money to be made by the ILECs

we're #23!
AlfredNewman6
join:2010-03-25
Columbus, OH

1 edit

AlfredNewman6 to hehbo2k3

Member

to hehbo2k3
said by hehbo2k3:

These reports never seem to acknowledge the fact that the US has a much sparser population density than nearly any of the European countries we are "competing" against. Shouldn't this be a huge factor in all 5 of those categories mentioned?
Did you forget New York City, San Francisco, LA, Miami, etc... high density, sucky internet services. They are just not getting DOCSIS 3.0 and up to 50Mb services if you pay about $100+ when compared to places like Toyko that get 100MB up/down for a fraction of the price.

I'm sorry hehbo2k3 but you obviously didn't think or do your research before you posted.

Z80A
Premium Member
join:2009-11-23

Z80A

Premium Member

Re: Did you forget something?

Did you forget that the carriers in those areas aren't isolated to those areas. If VZ ONLY had to wire NYC, they could deploy any speed you wanted...but they have to be concerned with millions upon millions of other users and dedicate resources to serving them.

Jim Kirk
Premium Member
join:2005-12-09
49985

Jim Kirk

Premium Member

Re: Did you forget something?

So how does wiring NYC for speeds comparable to SK and other have anything to do with speeds in Podunk, Kansas? There's nothing that says they have to offer the same speeds in every location. Hell, they're doing that now.

Z80A
Premium Member
join:2009-11-23

Z80A

Premium Member

Re: Did you forget something?

Because they deploy using nationwide plans. If they deployed gigabit service in NYC everyone here would immediately cry redlining.

NuShrike
@cox.net

NuShrike

Anon

Re: Did you forget something?

How is that different from now where they deploy piecemeal per city anyways?

Do you see AT&T covering all of USA's square inch? Even Verizon? No, they cover only where people live and where the density justifies the coverage.

Stop being such an industry apologist.

Z80A
Premium Member
join:2009-11-23

Z80A

Premium Member

Re: Did you forget something?

Big difference because they're still national plans.

Stop being a whiner.
Sammer
join:2005-12-22
Canonsburg, PA

Sammer

Member

Re: Did you forget something?

said by Z80A:

Big difference because they're still national plans.
Verizon FiOS is not a national or even Verizon wide plan. AT&T U-Verse is not a national or even an AT&T wide plan. Don't even think about cable companies having the same speeds and prices everywhere. Lack of effective competition is the reason why U. S. broadband isn't better.

Z80A
Premium Member
join:2009-11-23

Z80A

Premium Member

Re: Did you forget something?

Of course it is. FiOS plans are nearly standard in every FiOS market and the same with U-Verse.
Ulmo
join:2005-09-22
Aptos, CA

Ulmo

Member

Re: Did you forget something?

said by Z80A:

Of course it is. FiOS plans are nearly standard in every FiOS market and the same with U-Verse.
False on its face. FiOS plans follow a close pattern to competition. There's about two to three templates Verizon follows, but which template they choose from for each area has a lot to do with competition, and the templates are far different from each other.

Who cares what AT&T does with U-Verse -- that whole product line is a low class tier anyway. It doesn't really count. It's slower than anything else.

Z80A
Premium Member
join:2009-11-23

4 edits

Z80A

Premium Member

Re: Did you forget something?

False on it's face. FiOS tiers are nearly universal across all FiOS markets. They are 15-25-35-50 just about everywhere if not everywhere FiOS is available.

And 18-24Mb U-Verse is slow compared to what exactly? They are also getting ready to deploy bonded service.

NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
TP-Link TD-8616
Asus RT-AC66U B1
Netgear FR114P

NormanS to AlfredNewman6

MVM

to AlfredNewman6
said by AlfredNewman6:

hey are just not getting DOCSIS 3.0 and up to 50Mb services if you pay about $100+ when compared to places like Toyko that get 100MB up/down for a fraction of the price.
What is that "fraction"? 10%? 25%? I suspect it is around 50%.

NuShrike
@cox.net

NuShrike to hehbo2k3

Anon

to hehbo2k3
You seem to be denying that we have any cities at all with comparable density in a small-enough area that at least justifies comparable coverage.

Z80A
Premium Member
join:2009-11-23

Z80A

Premium Member

Re: did they forget something

You seem to be denying that these providers service more than just densely populated areas.
sonicmerlin
join:2009-05-24
Cleveland, OH

sonicmerlin

Member

Re: did they forget something

said by Z80A:

You seem to be denying that these providers service more than just densely populated areas.
No one provides equal service over their entire footprint. You're being completely irrational. What is stopping them from fibering up cities and suburbs? Why did Verizon stop their FIOS buildout entirely? Stop being such an apologist.

NuShrike
@cox.net

NuShrike to hehbo2k3

Anon

to hehbo2k3
If you want to argue density, Kushiro, Japan has 140 people per square Km. They're going to get fiber fairly soon.

Orange County with 1,473 people per square Km, still no fiber.

Z80A
Premium Member
join:2009-11-23

Z80A

Premium Member

Re: did they forget something

Then move to Japan.
Ulmo
join:2005-09-22
Aptos, CA

Ulmo

Member

Re: did they forget something

Actually, you move to Japan, where your crap will actually become true. Otherwise you're just lying.
sonicmerlin
join:2009-05-24
Cleveland, OH

sonicmerlin to hehbo2k3

Member

to hehbo2k3
said by hehbo2k3:

These reports never seem to acknowledge the fact that the US has a much sparser population density than nearly any of the European countries we are "competing" against. Shouldn't this be a huge factor in all 5 of those categories mentioned?
It's irritating seeing these red herring brought up over and over again. Sweden has a far lower population density than the US and they have far better broadband than us.
Ulmo
join:2005-09-22
Aptos, CA

Ulmo to hehbo2k3

Member

to hehbo2k3
said by hehbo2k3:

These reports never seem to acknowledge the fact that the US has a much sparser population density than nearly any of the European countries we are "competing" against. Shouldn't this be a huge factor in all 5 of those categories mentioned?
That can't be more wrong. The densest urban areas of USA are usually the worst with broadband; it's the suburban areas that seem to get the best. So, it's not a density issue.

If you point to the actually rural areas, those don't really count. Rural is as rural does.

Duramax08
To The Moon
Premium Member
join:2008-08-03
San Antonio, TX

Duramax08

Premium Member

For the record

Tell us how your would address competition.

•••••

lighthouseJ
cheers
join:2005-05-02
Golden, CO

lighthouseJ

Member

$$

pretty sad considering we are the creators of the internet. . . but noooo money went elsewhere . . .
glinc
join:2009-04-07
New York, NY

glinc

Member

Re: $$

And also pretty sad considering we're a first world country.
Expand your moderator at work
garmst
join:2000-09-17
New York, NY

garmst

Member

A fairly good 23rd

We have FIOS fiber at VZ, COMCAST, TWC, Optimum OL deploying DOCSIS at 50 and 100 Mbit levels, 4G and LTE sprouting up and we're 23rd? Well, being 23rd is not bad after all! The poor in America have better internet than most of the folks in the world.

•••

Six Gun Kid
Premium Member
join:2001-07-02
Huntsville, AL

2 edits

Six Gun Kid

Premium Member

U.S. Ranks 23rd In Broadband Development

No surprise here in N. Alabama...One Cable Provider (Mediacom) and one DSL Provider (At&t) that's it. Choose between bad and worse, those are my options.
--
I find it hard to see the Forest for the Trees...

Boogeyman
Drive it like you stole it
Premium Member
join:2002-12-17
Wasilla, AK

Boogeyman

Premium Member

Re: U.S. Ranks 23rd In Broadband Development

Depending on where you are at in Huntsville, you could get Knology or Comcast as well. In my neck of the woods (south 231), Comcast has good speeds (can usually sustain 2MBps for minutes at a time) but the pings are inconsistent ( »/r3/sm ··· 2299c94f )
nutcr0cker
join:2003-04-02
Chandler, AZ

nutcr0cker

Member

But...but georgie said

But...but georgie said that if we bomb Iraq and give tax cuts to the super rich it would have a trickle down prosperity everyone would be have mores after he completes his presidency

Quake110
Premium Member
join:2003-12-20
Ottawa, ON

1 edit

Quake110

Premium Member

And Canada...

... WAAAAAYY Worse...... It's isn't even in the TOP 30 list!
»multiplayblog.com/2010/0 ··· 3rd.aspx

••••••••
theyipper
join:2001-01-18
Oakland, CA

theyipper

Member

forgot one..

They forgot a very important category: Profitability.

••••
Mr Matt
join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL

Mr Matt

Member

A national broadband progam is not so complicated!

Broadband service should be extended to any location where there is electric service. Once electric power has been deployed the most difficult issues have already been resolved. Anywhere there is electric power there are telephone poles, a right of way already in place to install fiber and a power source to power the broadband network. The only problem is the incumbent ISP influence peddling. Our government lawmakers will spend billions on pork barrel projects benefiting their cronies while not helping our citizens. We need a national broadband program which could be promoted as the "WIRE AMERICA NOW". If our government can afford to build highways at a million dollars a mile they can afford to install fiber along a highway for a few thousand dollars a mile. Any excuse not to is Bull Feces.
mworks
join:2006-06-13
Rose Hill, NC

mworks

Member

Re: A national broadband progam is not so complicated!

They will not do anything to change it because the telco give them too much money for campaigns and such. The telco were given hundreds of billions in tax incentives and deregulation on the promise they would connect every home to broadband. It never happened of course and they ran with the money. Only 1 state has taken the telco to court over breach of contract, New Jersey. And surprisingly verizon now promises it will cover all homes. Funny how they can suddenly make it happen when pressured.

What we have here is a case of the accused paying off the judge. We the jury can complain all we like but the judge will do what the person paying wants.

jaa
Premium Member
join:2000-06-13

jaa

Premium Member

Because of Competition or Lack of?

Some argue we need more competitors to drive competition.

Others argue we need a regulated monopoly or government run broadband - competition is too inefficient.

So which is it that is killing us - competition or lack thereof??
Sammer
join:2005-12-22
Canonsburg, PA

Sammer

Member

Re: Because of Competition or Lack of?

said by jaa:

So which is it that is killing us - competition or lack thereof??
The answer is actually both! In the profitable areas we need more competition but in the unprofitable areas we need a regulated monopoly or government owned (privatize the actual service) broadband. BTW, anywhere the dominant provider or duopoly says that FiberToTheHome in the next five years is too expensive should automatically be considered unprofitable and therefore a heavily regulated area.
Ulmo
join:2005-09-22
Aptos, CA

Ulmo

Member

Re: Because of Competition or Lack of?

That's sensible. By "more competition", I assume you mean less red tape, legal prohibitions, and tax (aka lobbyists stymieing competition).
PerfectCode
join:2009-06-12
Portland, OR

PerfectCode

Member

Lame!

I thank JohnInSJ for this. ^_^