USDA: Yes, Rural Broadband Still SucksAt least we THINK it sucks, since FCC data sucks as well... 04:14PM Wednesday Aug 19 2009 by Karl Bodetags: coverage · business · Op/Ed · consumersThe United States Department of Agriculture has had a role to play in improving the nation's broadband fortunes for some time, overseeing the delivery of rural funds for infrastructure improvement with mixed results. With the agency poised to hand out additional $2.5 billion in grants and loans, the agency today released a report noting a continued divide in broadband availability between urban, suburban, and rural areas (utterly and completely shocking, to say the least). The USDA says 55% of U.S. adults had broadband access as of 2007, though that number drops to around 4% when measuring adults in rural households. 70% of rural households with an Internet connection have broadband, while that number jumps to 84% for urban households. Some of this is due to high prices and limited availability, but some of it is due to people simply not wanting broadband. Stat farm Comscore has also released a study showing that on the bright side, rural broadband growth is heavily outpacing suburban and urban broadband growth. According to Comscore, rural broadband markets (defined as a population of less than 10,000 people) saw a 16% increase in broadband penetration from Q2 2007 to Q2 2009. "Micropolitan" areas (10,000-50,000 residents) grew 14% during th at time, while metropolitan areas (50,000+ residents) grew 11%. One problem, however, is that most of these calculations are based somewhere along the line on FCC data. FCC data, which as we've discussed for years, is borderline unusable because the FCC (until recently) considered a single broadband-enabled (defined as 200kbps or faster) home in a zip code to mean that whole zip code was broadband enabled. The only way to get more accurate data is to force ISPs to finally hand over comprehensive service data, or actually go into the field and measure penetration. We've done neither. Says the USDA: The Federal Communications Commission (FCC) data on the number of broadband providers by ZIP Code area are the only source of geographically detailed information with national coverage. More robust findings would come from data measuring the actual number of broadband customers and variation in the price of service, rather than just the number of companies providing access. The FCC data, however, serve as the best available proxy of broadband accessibility. $300 million has been set aside in broadband stimulus funds to more accurately map broadband penetration, but as we noted last week, a significant chunk of that money may be thrown at organizations with a vested interest in making broadband penetration look rosier than it actually is. Most Americans (particularly rural ones) know first hand we have broadband issues, but nobody will actually know just how bad it is until ISPs agree to turn over their data -- and somebody actually bothers to go into the field to confirm the data's accuracy. Related:- Scott Cleland: Google Using 21x The Bandwidth They Pay For
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  cameronsfx
join:2009-01-08 Pensacola, FL
·Cox HSI
·magicjack.com
·Verizon Wireless B..
·AT&T DSL Service
| Rural Broadband does suck "I'm still on AOL out here in the rural roads of Iowa. Can't get no crop reports or nothing on AOL. Cellphones barely work out here. Gotta use walktalkies. Ma Bell barely wants to put a phone out here and it's in the barn. Glad the horses have 911 to call. Take 'em an hour to get here though. Well, there is some good things though. That boy on America's Got Talent is better than Garth Brooks. Got satellite for that. My kid, he's 18, will eventually be taking over the farm. Not sure about this Obama fella but we ain't got no stimulus stuff out here, and I'm sure he'd wanna take my guns. One of the other farmers round here has that wild blue internet. It sucks. Guess wild blue ain't Space the final frontier like Kirk had. Cable told me it would cost $10,000 for them to be out here. My satellite dish didn't cost me a thing. Gee, I can watch 500 channels, 100 or so in Europe, and can't get no high speed stuff here. Makes ya sick, huh?" | |
|  |  |   screavic Premium join:2006-08-11 Paron, AR
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·Alltel Axess
1 edit | Re: Location Location Location And when you chose to live in an urban area you chose to have price increases because these farmers can't get in contact with WALM*RT to send their pricing in to compete with the other carriers.
Thank you very much, so sick of this rural argument. In order for this country to survive people have noticed that oh hey we need to adapt. In order for these farmers to adapt they have went with DirectWay or Wildblue only to find out about those ugly FAP's.
Not to mention I don't see anyone putting a cattle farm in the middle of the city...
Sorry not really geared to you but I saw it fit here before this urban sacrifice went out of hand lol.
-- Keyboard not found press F1 to continue. My software never has bugs, they just develop random "features". | |
|  |  |  heimdm
join:2008-06-22 Martinsville, IN
| Re: Location Location Location I live about 7 miles from a major town. Through that down runs Internet2 fiber.. that is to the east. I am part of ATT terroritory, and they have placed absolutely no investment. Just to the north less than 4 miles is a rural telco. They have just replaced their copper with Fiber to the home... but because I am stuck in ATT territory the only thing I can get is a T-1. I am hoping that Verizon LTE will finally give us a affordable form of Internet. | |
|  |  |  |   screavic Premium join:2006-08-11 Paron, AR
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1 edit | Re: Location Location Location Same issue here, fiber runs right by our house but as far as I know unless they changed it our main terminal is still on copper. The Fiber runs to feed the next town over. ATT here too
I called to pay to get a DSLAM installed but they don't do that so my business is saving up for Comcast if they will still come here.
-- Keyboard not found press F1 to continue. My software never has bugs, they just develop random "features". | |
|  |  |  Skippy25
join:2000-09-13 Hazelwood, MO
| I see. So you want to make your choice and not have to make any sacrifice and want it all.
So how do you handle the delimma when you want both Chicken and Steak for dinner but your poor little tummy isn't big enough for both?
Point being.... everyone has choices in life. Those choices generally mean you are sacrificing X for Y. Rural people make the choice to live the life of isolation and the lack of convenience that comes with it. Urban people have made the choice to live the life of convenience over isolation.
I personally have not seen a single innovation in "farming" that has done anything beneficial to society beyond raise the prices and introduce chemicals to our land and bodies that do more harm than good. But of course those things are what give us the millionaire farmers so....... | |
|  |  |  |   screavic Premium join:2006-08-11 Paron, AR
·Verizon Wireless B..
·Alltel Axess
2 edits | Re: Location Location Location Have you looked at the price of farm equipment lately? I'm not talking about a tiller from your local hardware store. I'm talking about a full all out Combine setup for every task the farmer needs. That is why the price goes up, not to mention the demand for these goods have increased while the number of farms producing food have dropped.
Now big companies require all these changes that farmers are having to adapt to in order to keep selling their food.
How am I making a sacrifice? I guess your talking about me being all jacked up from the Army and living on disability... Yeah that is a sacrifice I took and now i'm paying for it.
I live just 8 miles from the city, I'm far from Rural by the "rules" they were trying to place to define rural and I still don't have broadband.
-- Keyboard not found press F1 to continue. My software never has bugs, they just develop random "features". | |
|  |  |  |   DoctorDoom Troll hunter Premium join:2006-09-19 Becket, MA
| quote: Point being.... everyone has choices in life. Those choices generally mean you are sacrificing X for Y. Rural people make the choice to live the life of isolation and the lack of convenience that comes with it. Urban people have made the choice to live the life of convenience over isolation.
Golly, I shor do miss all them thar big city "conveniences", like crushing taxes to pay for the "conveniences", a staggering cost of living, concrete and glass instead of trees, 24/7 traffic noise, polluted air, littered streets, living in fear of crime, sidewalks full of lonely, desperate people and wasted dregs of humanity ... oh yeah, us rural folks shor is deprived.
quote: I personally have not seen a single innovation in "farming" that has done anything beneficial to society ...
How about feeding much of the world? How about going into your local supermarket and seeing more food on the shelves than is available in some countries?
quote: ...beyond raise the prices...
The prices would be considerably lower if we weren't wasting millions of acres of farmland growing crops for that environmentally disastrous "clean" fuel, ethanol, because ecowackos don't like oil, instead of using the acreage for food and feed for livestock. Then again, most city folk believe that food comes from boxes and bottles and jars.
quote: ...and introduce chemicals to our land and bodies that do more harm than good.
You are evidently unaware that the "chemicals" that plants use to grow are the same whether they come from fertilizer or from cow dung. One of the biggest ripoffs for the gullible is "organic" food.
Back on topic, the arrogance of "urban" dwellers re broadband has ceased to be merely annoying and has become thoroughly tedious. You're perfectly willing to enjoy the "convenience" of relying on rural America for your sustenance rather than raising or growing your own, but let us hicks and rednecks know our place and be silent. How dare we ask for a service that will benefit all of America! Are we unaware that if we want broadband, the answer is to move to an urban shithole and live like rats in a cage? -- HN7000S, Pro & PowerPak, G25 93.1°W 1278 | |
|  |  |  |  |   anon
@sprintlink.net | Re: Location Location Location Could not have said it better myself. thanks. We can't bitch about lack of broadband where we choose to live, but them city folks sure can bitch about caps and faps. | |
|  |   aSic application specific Premium join:2001-05-17 Wakulla, FL clubs:
| Thats the problem. The interweb should not be an "urban convenience".
I mean, they make owners of buildings remodel to conform with ADA regulations when there is NOBODY in a wheelchair for miles. I would be more apt to classify a big wide wheelchair ramp with bumpy yellow grippy things at the bottom to be more of an urban convenience, when the old setup was just fine.
I understand things change... but its stupid to continue to use the same old "urban convenience" argument. This is 2009, not 1999. There should be adequate connections available everywhere.
Hell, I just got DSL back in May. Took a lot of bitching to make it happen too. I live 8 miles outside the city limits of the capitol of the State of Florida. Not a rural area by any means, but wtf? There are PLENTY of folks in a similar situation... not far from "urban", but also not near "rural". Time to start expanding. -- Teamwork is a lot of people doing what I say. | |
|  |  |   screavic Premium join:2006-08-11 Paron, AR
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·Alltel Axess
| Re: Location Location Location I have to agree with you on that last part especially, I'm 8 miles from Little Rock, AR capital city, .5 miles from end of Comcast and 3 miles from DSL the other direction. I use Verizon Wireless net previously alltel connection is hit or miss and isn't always the best speed.
My friend lives in the city limits and the best he can get is 1.5 down (i think it's closer to 768 down and 100 up). -- Keyboard not found press F1 to continue. My software never has bugs, they just develop random "features". | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |   a333 A hot cup of integrals please
join:2007-06-12 Rego Park, NY
·Cingular Wireless
·Verizon Online DSL
2 edits | Re: Location Location Location said by screavic :I knew what you mean though  Another thing I hate it when they compare our broadband status to other nations like Japan and China, look at the number of people they have per square mile compared to the US. We are spread out and we have ALOT of land. Slightly OT, but I think they have a point in the sense that many of our CITIES don't have the level of broadband that large cities in Japan have. I mean, in cities like Tokyo, one can get reasonably priced gigabit service. Granted, it drops down to like 20 Mbit when downloading from overseas sources, that's still way faster than what many people in US cities can get. I live in the NYC metro area... (Queens, pretty high population density IMO... definitely profitable) yet my only wired options are Verizon DSL (7.1 meg maximum) and TWC's RatRunner (advertised 7 mbps that drops down to more like 2 mbps during evenings). Speakeasy and DSLextreme could get 10 mbps business ADSL2+ to me, at the amazing rate of $120/month. Heck, for that price, I could just get three 7.1 meg residential DSL lines and use a cheap linux box to do load-balancing. Point being.... my area is STILL at least 2-4 years away from FiOS, and that's after the whole NYC franchise deal that we all know Verizon will stick to......
/end of rant -- Linux: Because a PC is a terrible thing to waste My Location: /universe/earth/north-america/USA- fsck that!!! Physics: Will you break the laws of physics, or will the laws of physics break you? | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  Madtown
join:2008-04-26 Madera, CA | Re: Location Location Location Is county considered rural area? | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |   a333 A hot cup of integrals please
join:2007-06-12 Rego Park, NY
·Cingular Wireless
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Location Location Location Depends..... Queens, NY can be technically called a county, but it is one of the five boroughs of NYC, and it sure as hell is pretty densely populated..... It really comes down to specific population/general layout of the area I guess....
a333 -- Linux: Because a PC is a terrible thing to waste My Location: /universe/earth/north-america/USA- fsck that!!! Physics: Will you break the laws of physics, or will the laws of physics break you? | |
|  |  |  QLR
join:2009-06-23 Tallahassee, FL
·Embarq
| I know two guys in a similar pickle... one is within the city limits and Embarq said that service wasn't available. Fortunately, he was able to get broadband with Comcast. The other guy is in Leon County (but not in Tallahassee) and his only internet option is satellite 
One other family in Wakulla just recently got Comcast. Broadband coverage is truly swiss cheese in these parts!! | |
|  |  |  |  |  heimdm
join:2008-06-22 Martinsville, IN | Re: Location Location Location 10mb.. how about we take baby steps... all I want is 1.5mb without paying 300/mo. | |
|   hayabusa3303 Over 200 mph Premium join:2005-06-29 clubs: | goes to show you Taxpayer money at its finest. | |
|  |   Duramax08 Oh rly?
join:2008-08-03 San Antonio, TX | Re: goes to show you You would probably want broadband if it wasnt available to you and you weren't in the middle of nowhere. | |
|   Duramax08 Oh rly?
join:2008-08-03 San Antonio, TX
·Clearwire Wireless
·Juno Express
| Sucks indeed I am barely in rural area, like .4 miles in. We have the same need everyone else has. Feels like im in a third would country without broadband. FYI satellite is not broadband according to the FCC. -- One day, High speed internet will be down my road! Willing to put DSLAM's or cable plants on my yard. Contact me AT&T or TWC to set up an appointment =] | |
|   aqk
join:2006-07-17 Elgin, QC
| And for a Canadian rural perspective... Specifically, in rural Quebec- See my rant at Forums » O Canada! » Canadian » Bell Canada » [Internet] Rural logcabin user seeks DSLAM. Object:Matrimony
url: »[Internet] Rural logcabin user seeks DSLAM. Object:Matrimony
Are you listening, Bell Canada?  | |
|   yolarry
join:2007-12-29 Creston, WV
·HughesNet Satellit..
1 edit | waiting for froniternet DSL is just a mile away from here but its not Verizon line...its froniternet. so once they get the whole state... I going to call them up and see what they can bring me up to speed.
FAP hell for 3 years now -- HN7000S 5.6.1.35 - 99 West 1370 MHz -Transmit 1 watt - .74m Dish - Pro Plan - installed October 2007 - WRT54G V6 DD-WRT V24 | |
|   Swallx
@eerprogramming.com | In the Same boat Less than 3 miles out of large city, only choice is sat or 21.6K dialup. Verizon (our only choice) refused to spend any money and now we are in this transition to frontier. | |
|   hdman Flt Rider Premium join:2003-11-25 Appleton, WI
·Alltel Axess
·AT&T Midwest
·WildBlue
| What IS Broadband???? I think the FCC needs to first figure out just what IS broadband. If anybody in a zip code can get 200k or faster?!?!?!? I think that number should 600k or faster to snub out satellite as qualifying as "broadband". Companies like AT&T are allowed to resell WildBlue in areas that they will not service with DSL or UVERSE so they can claim they are providing rural broadband access.
Yep, its better than dial up, but broadband??? No way. Frankly, I would define broadband as a HARDWIRED connection of greater than 600k, with a maximum ping time of 150mS. This would cut out EVDO, dish, etc. I'm not saying EVDO or dish are bad, because I have had both. But they are NOT broadband in my opinion.....
Finally, ANY government money should be used to provide MY version of broadband to rural areas and nothing less. The crappy part is that the governement will still allow companies to grab this cash, and set up shop in over saturated urban areas where the quick money is to be made and this loophole should be CLOSED.
My opinions of course...
HDMan -- The proper way to break in a Harley: Grab a fist full of throttle, and ride it like you stole it!!! | |
|  |  heimdm
join:2008-06-22 Martinsville, IN | Re: What IS Broadband???? They also need to make it so that after a certain date lets say 6/1/2010, that if you don't provide broadband then you don't have a monopoly in that space anymore.
Does a T1 in a zip-code count as offering high-speed internet? | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |  heimdm
join:2008-06-22 Martinsville, IN
| Re: What IS Broadband???? The solution would be to give some of the local WISP's some pieces of the 700mhz spectrum in return for them to build out in under-served areas. I can get cell signal at 800mhz easy. EVDO at 1900mhz is a lot harder to get dialed in. So, with that being said, I bet 700mhz would come in through the tree just like a champ. | |
|  |  |  |  |  SuperWISP
join:2007-04-17 Laramie, WY
| Re: What IS Broadband???? said by heimdm :The solution would be to give some of the local WISP's some pieces of the 700mhz spectrum in return for them to build out in under-served areas. I can get cell signal at 800mhz easy. EVDO at 1900mhz is a lot harder to get dialed in. So, with that being said, I bet 700mhz would come in through the tree just like a champ. The best piece of the 700 MHz spectrum to use for this purpose is the "D Block." During the auction, no big provider (e.g. AT&T or Verizon) would pay even the minimum reserve price for this spectrum because (oh, horrors!) they would have to share it with public safety agencies. But WISPs have always shared spectrum and been supportive of public safety. It's time to let WISPs step up to the plate. the 700 MHz "D Block" should be nonexclusively licensed to WISPs who use equipment that shares the band fairly among them (the 802.11y protocol can be used as the spectrum etiquette) and gives priority to public safety communications that are legitimately marked as urgent. | |
|   jlivingood Premium,VIP join:2007-10-28 Philadelphia, PA
| NTIA Seeking Broadband Grant Reviewers I think the NTIA program is around $7B. A lot of readers here are pretty technical and may want to consider volunteering to review grants. I'm told this is a roughly 25 hr time commitment in Sept.
See »www.broadbandusa.gov/reviewers.htm for details. -- JL Comcast | |
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