 
Anonuser
join:2003-01-03
Milwaukee, WI | . Well, this is going to suck. I dont care one bit about IPTV, I just want faster internet access!
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Do the Do! | |
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 | reelbigfish
join:2002-06-06
Boston, MA
 ·Comcast
 ·Comcast Digital Vo..
| Re: . Problem is a lot of folks just don't want faster speeds. I know people who only have 1.5Mbps DSL and love it. Plus it's cheaper than having phone and internet through Comcast or Cox (the local cable cos). For those who want it, 6/1Mbps is pretty quick and really a bargain for the price. | |
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| | Ahrenl
join:2004-10-26
North Andover, MA | Re: . It's cheaper? I pay $99 for cable w/ HDDVR, phone, and 6mb internet, through Comcast. | |
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| | | NormanS
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA | Re: . By a couple of bucks... | |
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cbrantly
join:2006-07-26
San Antonio, TX
|  Why are there such bandwidth concerns?
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| Cod
join:2000-07-05
Greensboro, NC
| Re: Why are there such bandwidth concerns? said by cbrantly  :I don't see why so many people are concerned about the bandwidth. They aren't concerned, people just like to piss & moan because it isn't fiber to the premise. | |
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Maxo
Your tax dollars at work.
Premium,VIP
join:2002-11-04
Tallahassee, FL
clubs:
| Re: Why are there such bandwidth concerns? said by Cod :said by cbrantly :I don't see why so many people are concerned about the bandwidth. They aren't concerned, people just like to piss & moan because it isn't fiber to the premise. I remember when standard DSL was 768k. People wanted 1.5M for the price they were getting 768k. Once that happened it was a piss-fest about 3.0M then above. Those that sit at 6.0M bitch about not having FTTx. Now that FTTx is a reality people are whining they don't have the next best thing. It will never end. I just refer people to »Dialup and tell them to count their blessings.
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"Padre, nobody said war was fun now bowl!" - Sherman T Potter
»www.cafepress.com/maxolasersquad
»maxolasersquad.com/
»maxolasersquad.com/network/ My DSL Network Guide
»myspace.com/mlsquad | |
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Rick
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-06
Waterbury, CT
clubs: 
| If you and others are seeing those kinds of sync speeds, or even half that number, this could be a very interesting technology and product rollout.
I and others have been critical of this because it isn't Fios, and for a next generation product that is going to involve multiple HD streams and very fast internet, it's been seen as the lightweight contender vs. Verizon and the cable co's.
I mean, there's certainly nothing WRONG per se with a 6MB connection, but when you're talking about the future and many cable co's already breaking those boundaries and even doubling it..uverse just has had this feel about it like it's going to be like a 1500k connection would be viewed today with many of their dsl offerings.
And furthermore, while maybe the tv service is ok, expanding into hdtv, multiple streams and the like such as the future and even today looks like with many cable co's..the system seemed stressed before it's even out of the gate.
With what you and others are reporting now however, maybe critics have been somewhat unfair. I really don't think you can blame critics because clearly the impression I cite above IS what was out there and the company really did nothing to counteract that.
I guess we'll all just have to really wait and see how it goes. I for one would be interested in an alternative if it could provide multiple HDTV..and fast speeds...AND provided something better on the cost front versus the cable competition.
I don't want slower than cable speeds or a toned down TV service.
Hopefully this isn't also a case of the haves and have nots. As anyone with dsl knows today, some can get the higher speeds while many don't.
I think it's important that AT&T create something consistent that is available to the masses of people on a as fair as possible basis.
What also would be interesting to see is if they will create an internet only higher speed package.
At the very least, even if HDTV was questionable, they could use this new system to deliver much better net speeds to many people.
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The life you help save just might be your own Team Discovery | |
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| | Cod
join:2000-07-05
Greensboro, NC | Re: Why are there such bandwidth concerns? good post, Rick. I agree 100%. The more competition the better no matter what 'camp' people lean towards. | |
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pa_grape
Premium
join:2006-07-24
Columbus, OH
| "What also would be interesting to see is if they will create an internet only higher speed package.
At the very least, even if HDTV was questionable, they could use this new system to deliver much better net speeds to many people."
I agree, that would be interesting. Wonder what kind of demand there would be for that? | |
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| | bamabrad
join:2006-01-27
Port Orange, FL | Me thinks that they are just trying to get numbers ( of customers )first with as little investment as possible, then add, as needed,the infrastructure for future offerings ( and then rate increases-as much as possible) | |
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| | | markofmayhem
join:2004-04-08
Pittsburgh, PA
| Re: Why are there such bandwidth concerns? I think there will be a lot of demand for U-Verse as is, if priced right. Telco's and Cable Co. love to hover around $85 for internet+phone packaging. If AT&T could break through at $20 less for non-promotional pricing, I hold the opinion that many, many people would pick it up. The TV situation is more complex, as the "average American" doesn't care much about internet speed when comparing 1.5 to 6.0, but the "average American" will absolutely notice what TV channels they can and can't receive. If they can offer HD content for sub-satellite pricing, then those in markets whose cable co's don't offer much HD will see a demand for U-Verse. If they can offer full packaging for slightly less than cable co's, then there would be a demand there as well. Where U-Verse may succeed over others, is the possibility of offering more choices over content, since they don't have to broadcast everything at once like sat and cable do. If they can stay on track with pricing, U-Verse has the ability to offer more tailored-to-the-consumer options than other companies. | |
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Occasional
@swbell.net
| Re: Why are there such bandwidth concerns? You got it... that's going to be what matters to the masses. Reliable service at a good price...guaranteed.
ATT is pretty good about the prior but not the latter. So it's going to be a tall order for them to get folks to believe that switching is going to be a "good move".
By the way, the switching isn't like flipping a switch...it's a reasonable retrofitting by any measure.
Folks aren't going to mess with it unless the price is good and guaranteed; e.g. no more of these promo prices with fine print that makes you worry like heck a year later that you're going to be paying 30% more for the same service. | |
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| 
dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
·Comcast
2 edits | 96mbps? To your house?
Can you fire off a speed test?
Can you start a few downloads that reflect this speed?
Comcast has my "gateway" connected to 10g, redundant even(that means two of them). This does not mean I am getting this. This means that what I do get is fairly reliable. | |
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| | cbrantly
join:2006-07-26
San Antonio, TX
| Re: Why are there such bandwidth concerns? Unfortunately my internet speeds are limited at my gateway to 6Mbps with the Elite package. On speed tests I consistently get 5.8Mbps. Since the bandwidth to my house is so much higher, my 5.8Mbps speed is very reliable and consistent. I posted an image of my gateway statistics that shows the 96Mbps connection, but it is being held for moderation. | |
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Rick
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-06
Waterbury, CT
clubs:
| Re: Why are there such bandwidth concerns? how close are you to your CO or RT, as the case may be?
Also, how would you rate the probably quality of the copper in your area? Is your area a newer community or older?
These connection speeds you are citing are very impressive and it would help potential customers to have some more information from new users such as yourself.
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The life you help save just might be your own Team Discovery | |
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| | | | cbrantly
join:2006-07-26
San Antonio, TX
| Re: Why are there such bandwidth concerns? I don't really know how far I am from the VRAD. AT&T told me I was just outside of the 3000 ft range, but I measured using google maps and it looks like about 1300 ft. I could be wrong though, since I don't know the path that the copper takes from the VRAD to my house.
Also I can't answer for sure the quality of copper in my area, but all of the houses are 18-25 yrs. old, so definitely not new construction. | |
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Rick
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-06
Waterbury, CT
clubs:
| Re: Why are there such bandwidth concerns? Thanks for the reply.
well, using the median of the two numbers, it's about 1/2 mile.
I think i'm about that from my CO as well here in Ct.
As you state though, I don't know the route it takes and thats just as the crow flies.
Being my area is older than that, probably my copper is more suspect.
But still, even if the numbers were half of what you cite..this might be a very viable product.
It would seem that if it was at 40MB under these kinds of circumstances, that would support multiple HD and very good HSI speeds.
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The life you help save just might be your own Team Discovery | |
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| cbrantly
join:2006-07-26
San Antonio, TX
| 
U-verse Stats |
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| | Enlightener
join:2006-01-28
Cedar Park, TX | Re: Why are there such bandwidth concerns? Just because a modem uses a formulat to calculate a max rate doesn't mean that you'd actually be able to sync at that rate. | |
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| | | markofmayhem
join:2004-04-08
Pittsburgh, PA
| Re: Why are there such bandwidth concerns? Unless the max rate is the sync rate and the current rate is the provisioned rate. Time will tell, either way, this is very, very interesting indeed. I hope those of you with U-Verse post often with updates, successes and failures. Thank you for posting thus far. | |
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| | | | cbrantly
join:2006-07-26
San Antonio, TX
| Re: Why are there such bandwidth concerns? 25 is the provisioned rate. Every U-verse user right now has their current rate provisioned to 25024kbps. AT&T has done this to test whether or not they can get reliable service at this rate, which will eventually be the minimum they will offer the service at. | |
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| | | Cod
join:2000-07-05
Greensboro, NC
| said by Enlightener :Just because a modem uses a formulat to calculate a max rate doesn't mean that you'd actually be able to sync at that rate. How do you figure that its a formula the modem is using and not the actual max attainable rate? | |
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| | | | Enlightener
join:2006-01-28
Cedar Park, TX
 ·AT&T U-Verse
| Re: Why are there such bandwidth concerns? Based on previous threads concerning DSL technology and 2Wire management gui's, it's typically a calculated rate based on noise margins and attn.
For example in this `demo` of a 2wire modem:
»shastademo.2wire.com/rgw3-7/CONT···lt15.htm
Max2 is defined as final estimated max rate | |
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| | | | | Cod
join:2000-07-05
Greensboro, NC
| Re: Why are there such bandwidth concerns? said by Enlightener :Based on previous threads concerning DSL technology and 2Wire management gui's, it's typically a calculated rate based on noise margins and attn. For example in this `demo` of a 2wire modem: » shastademo.2wire.com/rgw3-7/CONT···lt15.htmMax2 is defined as final estimated max rate gotcha. Is it not accurate or something? | |
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d_l
Barsoom
Premium,MVM
join:2002-12-08
Reno, NV
| Re: Why are there such bandwidth concerns? 2Wire gateways are reasonably accurate in estimating and projecting maximum attainable sync speeds for ADSL, but there has been no confirmation of the quality of these estimates for VDSL. Barring major unforeseen interference problems, they are probably reasonably accurate. | |
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| | | | | cbrantly
join:2006-07-26
San Antonio, TX | tell me how to find the actual sync rate and I'll do it. | |
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| nasadude
join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD | at what distance are you seeing these speeds?
if you are getting almost 100Mbps, you must be within 1000 ft of the node. Everybody isn't going to be so lucky, as ATT has been mentioning distances of up to 3000 ft as not unusual. | |
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N3OGH
Bear patrol must be working like a charm
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
·Verizon FIOS
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| One HD stream? Well LAA DEE DAH.
One HD stream, maybe 2?
I'm no network engineer, but isn't it clear to everyone that this technology isn't going to cut it in the 21st century? Right now, I'm getting 5 or 6 HD channels from Comcast (and I'm no fan of Comcast), and Verizon's Fios TV will be capable of even more.
Everyone else is doing 85 on the interstate while these guys are snapping the whip on the ol' stagecoach.
Hey, AT&T, that ol' buggy can only go so fast, no matter how hard you whip the horse!
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Never ask what sort of a computer a guy drives. If he's a Mac user, he'll tell you. If not, why embarrass him? -Tom Clancy | |
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| Derfel
join:2004-06-06
Winnipeg, MB
·MTS
| Re: One HD stream? Uh, I think what "one stream" means is that only one TV can have HD on at a time. Not that there's only one HD channel at a time. Can your Comcast do multiple TVs in HD?
MTS in Winnipeg, MB is testing HD with this same technology right now, and they are planning to deliver 11 HD channels (maybe more), but only on one TV. I'm okay with that. | |
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See 11 replies to this post |
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icp1
Premium
join:2000-10-13
Saint Louis, MO
clubs:
·AT&T DSL Service
| Re: One HD stream? said by TKJunkMail : But I doubt cable will have to do much to beat back AT&T U-Verse. It just won't be competitive with cable video. Never underestimate the power of Pissed off users of cable...They would go to anything else if offered, even if it offered less and cost more...
Heck in our Charter world here, I could bet 25% would switch just because they hate Charter.
That being said, AT&T isn't stupid enough to think their existing rollout will do it for the long run. I fully expect to see a switch to fiber to the home (at least a plan) in the next year or so, and this rollout is just a stopgap to prevent total cable domination. | |
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| | Derfel
join:2004-06-06
Winnipeg, MB | Again, I'll use MTS in Manitoba as an example. They offer digital TV for less money than you can get standard cable here in Winnipeg. People love that sort of thing. | |
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| | markofmayhem
join:2004-04-08
Pittsburgh, PA
| I'm guessing that the "AT&T can't compete" theme around here is based on the assumptions in the article.
Assumption: The 6 mpbs internet speed is the total connection speed for internet, TV, and phone.
Is this correct? No one knows. The modems are provisioned at speeds much, much greater, so the 6 mpbs may not be the total speed, just the bandwidth allocated to internet only. If the TV resides in the rest of that provisioned bandwidth, then 10 HD streams won't be too far down the road.
If U-Verse is able to offer 6 mpbs internet speed, phone, and at least 6 streams of HD content at it's current pricing, cable companies will not be able to compete with their current infrastructure.
If anything, I foresee cable companies adopting the streaming content over broadcasting content in the future. Imagine how much internet speed they could begin offering if they free up the bandwidth that 220 digital, 15 HD, and 65 analog stations take up. With the death of analog coming soon, it's not too far fetched, since every TV will need a box anyway. | |
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| | | cbrantly
join:2006-07-26
San Antonio, TX
| Re: One HD stream? 6Mbps is just the internet speeds. AT&T is restricting each home to 25Mbps total right now. If the user has the Elite internet package, they get 6Mbps for Internet plus 19Mbps for TV. Although they could offer much faster speeds than 25Mbps, they are restricting it now to make sure they can offer reliable services at that speed since that is about the max speed they can get at 6000 ft (and they are hoping to be able to offer services up to 6000ft from the node).
What people have to keep in mind is that U-verse is currently only available to a few thousand people in San Antonio, TX. AT&T is still determining how their current technology can perform in a worst-case scenario. | |
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| 
DaSneaky1D
one wall to block them all
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-29
The Lou
·Charter Pipeline
| said by N3OGH :I'm no network engineer...Right now, I'm getting 5 or 6 HD channels from Comcast (and I'm no fan of Comcast), and Verizon's Fios TV will be capable of even more. There's your first disqualification.
Getting 5 or 6 HD channels is not the same as streaming them all at the same time. AT&T's IPTV service will currently only stream one HD channel to the house at a time, until stress tests show more can be handled.
Most homes that even have a HD tv only have one, so this makes perfect sense. What this won't allow you to do is watch one HD stream, and record a second.
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:: my trivial ramblings :: | |
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See 10 replies to this post |
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| magnushsi
join:2002-11-06
Cedar Springs, MI
| Let me "enlighten" those of you who apparently know everything. This IS new ground for IPTV. Those of you spouting off about how you can do this and that with comcast, tw, etc. Get a clue! Who do you think developed that technology? It wasn't the cable companies! Who do you think is making the technology that AT&T is using? It isn't AT&T! The same two big players who developed digital cable are the same ones developing the technology for AT&T (plus some others). It took 6+ years for you to get multiple streams of HD+DVR capability. It will take a little time for IPTV as well (but not nearly as long).
I swear, people like to complain just for the sake of complaining.... | |
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| | markofmayhem
join:2004-04-08
Pittsburgh, PA
| Re: One HD stream? Agreed.
I also foresee IPTV being the future. It's just cheaper in the long run to only use bandwidth for those who are using it, rather than using bandwidth to send everything available hoping someone will use it like today's sat and cable systems. AT&T is leading, not following. | |
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| Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
| CATV will probally do the IPTV route too but their bigger bandwidth will allow more streams. they allready have On-Demand so its not too far to hold all the digital channels back at the hub and when you punch up the channel it sends the request similar to an ondemand.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
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Zoder
join:2002-04-16
Miami, FL | Bitrate & compression Does anybody know what bitrate the HD streams will be sent at and what type of compression they will be using? | |
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U-Verse High Definition October 25
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