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Unions Pitch U-Verse
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The union representing AT&T employees in metropolitan Milwaukee (CWA) has launched a campaign to get users to drop Time Warner Cable service in the city and switch to AT&T's union labor-driven U-Verse. The CWA has this to say about Time Warner Cable at a new website:
quote:
"Time Warner spends our money on marketing and advertising, lobbying, profits for their shareholders, and union-busting attorneys - none of which improve services or help our community. Time Warner is NOT a friend nor responsible citizen. They tout their contributions to a few charitable organizations, while they spend more on trying to deny employees - members of our community - the right to form a union and negotiate fair wages and benefits."
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AGBell
@cox.net

AGBell

Anon

Lafayette's LUS project

lobbying, profits for shareholders, attorneys (not union busting however)- sounds familiar.
radougherty
join:1999-07-23
Austin, TX

1 edit

radougherty

Member

Who's scamming who?

"Time Warner spends our money on marketing and advertising, lobbying, profits for their shareholders...

Gee, AT&T doesn't spend any money marketing (all those phone calls or mailings about getting such and such service), lobbying(yea right, AT&T doesn't do that) and profits for their shareholders (that's why we have FTTN and not FTTP), do things on the cheap to keep the profits up. What a bunch of garbage!

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

FFH5

Premium Member

Re: Who's scamming who?

What do expect from a union leader - logic?

These guys are doing nothing but throwing away their members union dues on their own stupid marketing and lobbying campaign.
lesopp
join:2001-06-27
Land O Lakes, FL

lesopp to radougherty

Member

to radougherty
I'd like to know how Time Warner got their hands on the union's money.

The CWA acting as a shill for AT&T, OMG the "end of times" is near.

needforspeed59
Cruise Ship Just Passing Through
join:2001-05-02
La Place, LA

needforspeed59

Member

Re: Who's scamming who?

Gawd, I hate unions! Like they don't spend their members' money marketing and lobbying. What a bunch of crap.
rmdir
join:2003-03-13
Chicago, IL

1 recommendation

rmdir

Member

Re: Who's scamming who?

But the unions serve 2 important functions!
1-Protect the lazy
2-Protect the incompetent

NyQuil Kid
8f The Nyquil Kid
join:2001-01-06
Brick, NJ

1 edit

NyQuil Kid

Member

Typical Union Hyprocrisy

"Time Warner spends our money on marketing and advertising, lobbying, profits for their shareholders, and union-busting attorneys - none of which improve services or help our community."

And this is any different from the unions spending money on a campaign to get users to drop Time Warner? Please...what a crock.

The sooner the unions are driven to extinction, the better.

[8F] The NyQuil Kid

needforspeed59
Cruise Ship Just Passing Through
join:2001-05-02
La Place, LA

needforspeed59

Member

Re: Typical Unioon Hyprocrisy

LOL! We must have posted at the same time. Read my comment right above yours.

Cabal
Premium Member
join:2007-01-21

Cabal to NyQuil Kid

Premium Member

to NyQuil Kid

Re: Typical Union Hyprocrisy

Seconded.
bamabrad
join:2006-01-27
Port Orange, FL

bamabrad

Member

Although unions aren't the best thing in the world....

they certainly aren't the worst-they did give us the 'weekend' and much better working conditions and they DO have their faults-but for a company to union bust and fire any one talking about the 'U' word is not good either.

needforspeed59
Cruise Ship Just Passing Through
join:2001-05-02
La Place, LA

needforspeed59

Member

Re: Although unions aren't the best thing in the world....

So, you just take the union's word that TW is guilty of this? If so, take them to court as it against the law. I hate when unions start throwing words like this around and people just accept it as the truth.
bamabrad
join:2006-01-27
Port Orange, FL

bamabrad

Member

Re: Although unions aren't the best thing in the world....

I worked for TW-I know this for a fact-most of the employees need their jobs and can't afford to drag this on for years in the court system-and TW knows this.

2kmaro
Think

join:2000-07-11
Oklahoma City, OK

2kmaro to bamabrad

to bamabrad
Actually, the 40-hour work-week and weekends and such came not from unions but from federal legislation. Check the history of the Fair Labor Standards Act. One of the things it did was establish the 40 hour work week as a standard, which in turn ended up with the side effect of creating the "weekend". This was primarily an effort to get people back to work: if you run a company 24/7 or just keep your business open 12 or 16 hrs a day, and the gov't says everything over X #hrs per day/week is overtime and has to be paid at a premium rate, what do you do to get the work done without increasing labor cost? You hire more people.

In today's U.S. economy, in any large business such as TW (or the one I work for - not as large by far, but non-union) management realizes that the 'threat' of unionizing is always there. So the tendency is to provide compensation and benefits packages that compare favorably or better than what the union might force on them, without having to provide 'featherbed' jobs as part of the package.

Beech aircraft was a great example. They treated their employees like family (well liked family). There were things like a workout facility and similar amenities available to all employees. Then they got unionized, and through some silly interpretation of some union rule - those facilities became basically denied to all. I don't remember the specifics, but why do I think it probably went something like this: only non-union members can use the facility. Union cries FOUL! And so the company just shuts the whole thing down.
cymbolkid
join:2005-01-09
Allentown, PA

cymbolkid

Member

Re: Although unions aren't the best thing in the world....

Wrong, wrong, wrong wrong!

Yes there are laws about 40 hour works weeks. But guess what the unions are the ones that fought for that. Of coarse the union didnt write the law....
The union fought for you right to have a 40 hour work week..

Get you facts staight.

Cabal
Premium Member
join:2007-01-21

Cabal to bamabrad

Premium Member

to bamabrad
Unions *were* a good thing, in their day. Now they're nothing more than a breeding ground for mediocrity.
bamabrad
join:2006-01-27
Port Orange, FL

bamabrad

Member

Re: Although unions aren't the best thing in the world....

For the average - yes I agree.

pinot noir6
Premium Member
join:2007-04-23
Columbus, OH

pinot noir6

Premium Member

Unions

I avoid doing business with unionized companies, if at all possible. Sometimes it's not, but when ever I have a choice to purchase from a non-union company I will choose that instead.
NewMariner
join:2005-06-24

NewMariner

Member

Re: Unions

said by pinot noir6:

I avoid doing business with unionized companies, if at all possible. Sometimes it's not, but when ever I have a choice to purchase from a non-union company I will choose that instead.
And then you wander why you get tech support in india. I cant believe you would rather support Mohammad in Bangladesh then Joe in Kansas. Thats whats wrong with our nation, everyone wants gold for the price of peanuts.

pinot noir6
Premium Member
join:2007-04-23
Columbus, OH

1 recommendation

pinot noir6

Premium Member

Re: Unions

You are indeed wrong! Last time I called at&t tech support, it was to India. Last time I called Time Warner Tech support, it was to right here in town.
hottboiinnc4
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

hottboiinnc4

Member

Re: Unions

Actually TWC's Tier 2 is in Canada Only CSRs and Tier 3 are local.

Alpine6
Premium Member
join:2000-01-11
Atlanta, GA

Alpine6 to NewMariner

Premium Member

to NewMariner
I've never seen a tech support outfit that was unionized. That's certainly not to say that there aren't any, but most in my experience are manual labor-type stuff, like pulling wires, climbing poles, etc.

I would think most skilled IT workers these days would go away from the unions. The open market is better for those with talent and some drive. As someone said above, though, unions can be great for the average.

Adam
PAB70
join:2007-07-27
Woodridge, IL

PAB70

Member

Re: Unions

AT&T's tech support is unionized. Not entirely, but CWA negotiated in their last contract to bring outsourced work back to the U.S. There were 400 union jobs created in Indianapolis.
Emiya
join:2006-03-30
Southington, OH

Emiya to NewMariner

Member

to NewMariner
said by NewMariner:

And then you wander why you get tech support in india. I cant believe you would rather support Mohammad in Bangladesh then Joe in Kansas. Thats whats wrong with our nation, everyone wants gold for the price of peanuts.
Ever consider one of the reasons companies send jobs outside of the country is because unions demand to be paid "gold" wages for "peanuts" of work?

BTW, "Mohammad in Bangladesh" isn't getting too many jobs. Bangladesh is an impoverished, mostly rural country of it's own, not a part of India.
Wharf Rat8
Dancin On A Pin
join:2002-02-10
South River, NJ

1 recommendation

Wharf Rat8

Member

Re: Unions

I wish one of you anti union guys would take my place on the second shift at the reconstruction of the Driscoll Bridge in Jersey.You wouldnt last 10 minutes.Thank God Im in a Union.

NyQuil Kid
8f The Nyquil Kid
join:2001-01-06
Brick, NJ

NyQuil Kid

Member

Re: Unions

Boo F$#ing Hoo....you're breaking my heart. You don't like the job, find another.

[8F] The NyQuil Kid
PAB70
join:2007-07-27
Woodridge, IL

PAB70 to Emiya

Member

to Emiya
Nothing "peanuts" about tech support in my mind. Good tech support is what keeps customers happy. I don't look down on people that provide good customer service, and nothing wrong with being payed a good wage and benefits. I'm a CWA member and last I checked I wasn't paid in gold.

Trey1234
@aol.com

Trey1234 to Emiya

Anon

to Emiya
Interesting point. But think about this for a second. Union representation is at an all time low. Especially in the private sector. But still corps send job overseas. Why? The biggest amount of union busting is done by those who need them most. The American worker. As long as you believe that the only legal process to bargain wages and better working conditions is not needed, you will continue to find your services are no longer needed by American companies.

Union membership is down. Outsourcing is up. H1 visas requests are up(Gates went in front of Congress a few months ago asking for more in the IT industry). Guest worker visa for Mexican immigrants are in the works. Wages are at an all time low. As long as the American worker cant figure out this SIMPLE equation , were doomed.
cmaenginsb1
Premium Member
join:2001-03-19
Palmdale, CA

cmaenginsb1 to NewMariner

Premium Member

to NewMariner
NewMariner, you logic is reversed. As unions drive the cost of labor higher, those jobs will be relocated to regions of the world where not only is the labor cost cheaper but they can't unionize.

You can look at the maritime industry to see this effect. With the high cost of US labor in part due to the unions, most shipowners prefer non-US flagged ships using non-union labor and having repairs done in non-US shipyards again by non-union labor.

While not the case everywhere, most union management is pathetically corrupt. Brand new "work" trucks for positions that would be better off with a less expensive car etc is one example. How about the fact that union management typically does not take a pay cut when it's members on are strike?

I know of one union that when it's contract came up wanted a stike vote even before they sat down to negotiate with the company. Or has it's main management miss key meetings and blame the company or other unions when they were the ones asleep at the wheel.
Ahrenl
join:2004-10-26
North Andover, MA

Ahrenl

Member

Re: Unions

Only 7.9% of the private work force is unionized.. Union's are already obsolete.

NyQuil Kid
8f The Nyquil Kid
join:2001-01-06
Brick, NJ

2 edits

NyQuil Kid

Member

Re: Unions

While their numbers are lower, their influence is outsized - besides wanting to remove the secret ballot from elections because they can't compete:

»www.courier-journal.com/ ··· /OPINION
»www.americanrightsatwork ··· fair.cfm

They also are the root cause for Detroit slowly dying off (the management of some of these car companies can share the blame as well). But the unions still think it is 1950, while here on Earth it is closer to 2050 - this 1950's mentality when protecting their jobs is going to cause them to "protect" themselves into oblivion.

Like it or not, we aren't the only economy in the world that is advanced, and workers in Asia/India/etc don't give a damn about our 40 hour workweek and so-called fairness with labor. Wake up or die...simple as that.

[8F] The NyQuil Kid

carn725
@buckeyecom.net

carn725 to NewMariner

Anon

to NewMariner
AMEN!!!!!

MysticGogeta
The Robot Devil
Premium Member
join:2005-03-14
Katy, TX

MysticGogeta

Premium Member

Is it me or does the guy to the right look creepy?

Not like the pig is any better but that dude I wouldn't trust with my money.

viperpa33s
Why Me?
Premium Member
join:2002-12-20
Bradenton, FL

1 recommendation

viperpa33s

Premium Member

So how is it any different?

The union leaders spend the union members dues on lobbying, advertising, marketing, donating to politicians, and pro union attorneys. So how is it any different than Time Warner?

A union is not for there union members anymore. They are a business just like Time Warner is. The unions leaders are protecting there status quo, nothing more

idjk
@sprintlink.net

idjk

Anon

Unions Pitch U-Verse

While it is true that it seems to me that the unions care more for themselves instead of their members I do still have free medical insurance from Bell (at least till next contract then who knows )since 2001 when I retired. When I was working I got time and a half over 40 and Sundays then double time for over 49 and none of that was from the govt. but bargained for by the union.
I think here they are trying to get work for their members and due for themselves-- it all goes around.

•••
viperlmw
Premium Member
join:2005-01-25

1 recommendation

viperlmw

Premium Member

I don't understand the anti-union sentiment

I have worked both union and non-union. One plus among many of working in a Union shop is there is much less tension among the work force. It is much more difficult for management to cause hate and discontent between their workers because the contract evens and spells everything out. No secret and/or unfair compensation. No favoritism. No harassment. No demands to work off the clock (come in early to prep for the day, stay late to clean up, stroke the boss, etc.).

And don't go there about the NLRB. We know who runs it, and how worker friendly they are (W and not at all, for those who have been conned). They don't believe in the right for workers to organize. Let me say that again. THE RIGHT TO ORGANIZE!!!! So all you owners/employers/corporate bosses go back to your country club, and let us regular working types get back to work (if you want to make money).

There are those who realize that work=jobs. If the CWA thinks it will help their members keeps and grow jobs by helping their employer, I say go for it.

One more little note. I don't know ANY Union member who is rich. I know of many owners/employers/corporate bosses who are. I will congregate and organize with people like me. The richies don't want me. They just want my money and effort on their behalf.

•••••••

Pz_
join:2001-03-31
Brownsburg, IN

Pz_

Member

more union opinions

The biggest problem I have with the unions I've been involved with is the way they guarantee someone a job. If you do poorly at your job and get fired, the union forces the company to hire you back. I'm all for sticking it to big companies but I really hate watching incompetent, lazy, high school drop outs getting fired from $25.00 an hour jobs, only to whine about it and get it back.

You got lucky and are grossly over-paid for your skill set. Just come to work everyday and ride it out as long as it lasts. Don't miss a day a week, do a bad job AND bitch about it.

Shesh.

••••

John Galt6
Forward, March
Premium Member
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp

John Galt6

Premium Member

Who Knew?

...that BBR was such a hotbed of anti-unionism?
LostMile
Premium Member
join:2002-06-07
Coloma, MI

LostMile

Premium Member

Ever notice...

a company's success is usually attributable to a brilliant management team...but a company's failure is often due to some overpaid union thugs?

belawrence
They'll never let you in
join:2000-08-06
Santee, CA
ARRIS WBM760
(Software) pfSense
Ubiquiti UniFi AP

belawrence

Member

non union labor = job security for me

My company uses both union labor and subcontractor labor. Typical scenario is as follows:
1. company sends subcontractor to customer premises to install/test/instruct customer on how to use equipment.
2. within two hours of subcontractor leaving premises, customer calls company screaming that equipment isn't working properly or has caused either phone or network outage at premises.
3. company now sends me (union labor) to get yelled at by customer and correct multitude of problems due to shoddy workmanship and poor training of subcontractor.
4. repeat process about three times daily.

••••••
tmc8080
join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY

tmc8080

Member

protect very little

I sense a bit of forced astro-turfing here..
The U-Verse product is a piece of crap (compare the bottom line price after taxes/unfees/set top rentals and surcharges/franchise fees). Overpriced, under-served and decades away from full deployment.. by which time there will have to be a transition to FTTP well underway because the cable industry will not wait on building docsis 3.0 into its most competitive markets by which time AT&T will have spent millions to put their "it'll do" fiber nodes into the neighborhood and bought all this vdsl equipment which they'll have to march down the road to the less competitive market and see how long it takes the cable company in THAT zone to get smart and screw AT&T out of their revenue..

Hmm.. sounds like a carsalesman job.. kind of like selling an iphone product.. you know it's overpriced but hype and enticements can sell ANYTHING these days... riddle me this... what is the quid quo pro for the CWA promoting u-verse?
More hires? Health club benefits.. maybe more healthcare benefits, golf club membership? Free college tuition for workers' kids?
Bah! Hahaha... dream on

••••
bbgrunt0
join:2006-01-27
South Milwaukee, WI

bbgrunt0

Member

TWC ain't all bad... or at least no worse...

This "campaign" has been around for a bit - got one of their "pull the plug on Time Warner" yard signs up the street from me...

Funny - the unions are something of a thorn in the side of the company they work for, yet they're playing loyal here!

Who doesn't spend money on marketing and advertising and lobbying and who doesn't want profits for their shareholders? AT&T does the same as does every corporate entity.

Union-busting? Show me the proof. Some incidents that look a little anti-union if trumped up?

Help our community? What about the "Hang Tough" anti-drug campaign for kids? Lots of great community service presence here in Milwaukee. Do I see anything similar by AT&T?

Let good solid competition and quality product do the deciding, not some easy-to-see-through smear campaign.