'Unlimited Broadband Is a Complete Myth' ISPs tinker with different solutions to limit bandwidth consumption Perhaps more annoying than the "up to" marketing qualification is the promise of "unlimited" service that quite obviously has very real limits. The use of traffic shaping to control user bandwidth consumption catches the eye of the UK's Guardian, which offers a piece on the various capping and throttling solutions being applied across the pond: "PlusNet provided Guardian Technology with data for the average usage of each 10% of its customers in December, as well as each percentile of the top tenth - - The top 1% each used an average of 120.94GB, nearly double the 66.03GB used by the next percentile. The average customer used 6.19GB, although removing the heaviest 10% of users cuts that to 2.35GB. PlusNet caters for heavy users with what could be called a "time-capped" account: it allows users to download 20GB per month between 4pm and midnight, and any amount outside those times. It doesn't use the word "unlimited": "We think unlimited broadband is a complete myth," says Armstrong. "You can only do it by lying to your customers, as the economics don't work." The piece is an interesting read on making limits easy to understand for users, the first step clearly being to never advertise "unlimited" service if you have no intention of providing it. The variety of solutions is interesting; one provider doesn't subtract from a user's cap total, provided they're downloading the ISPs video content.
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 dadkinsCan you do Blu?Premium,MVM join:2003-09-26 Hercules, CA kudos:18 | Unlimited... Most(if not all) ISPs advertise - Unlimited Internet Access, not Unlimited use.
In other words, you can be connected to the network forever if you wish, not download the planet.
Can anyone show me where it says, on *ANY* ad, where an ISP states Unlimited data transfers for residential services?
I have nothing to ever worry about myself, I don't light up a newsreader and try to download everything in alt.binaries.dvd. LOL!
Of course, YMMV, -- Think outside the Fox... Opera | |
|  |  LokerPremium join:2004-07-11 Fargo, ND | Re: Unlimited... sometimes my bandwidth usage can get excessive (I think I was over 200 GB's one month) and I have yet to have any issues with Comcast.... -- "While preceding your entrance with a grenade is a good tactic inQuake, it can lead to problems if attempted at work." -- C Hacking | |
|  |  |  BF69Premium join:2004-07-28 Camden, TN | Re: Unlimited... said by Loker:sometimes my bandwidth usage can get excessive (I think I was over 200 GB's one month) and I have yet to have any issues with Comcast.... Man you steal a lot of stuff. | |
|  |  |  |  Michieru2zzz zzz zzzPremium join:2005-01-28 Miami, FL 1 edit | Re: Unlimited... do you know what he could be transferring at all? It's Hell I probably use the same amount of bandwidth on simply downloading ISO's for my clients, damn updates or packages from respiratories. Hell I can't afford having tons of drives or CD's because then the crap is outdated a week later and I must re download burn and then transfer.
It's easier for me to simply download it to every machine. | |
|  |  |  |  |  LokerPremium join:2004-07-11 Fargo, ND | Re: Unlimited... yeah downloading windows updates on computers I repair/build can get rather large all on its own.....there are also a lot of video podcasts I download and what not....
trust me it is easy to get up there fast through legitimate means.... that said I do not think my average month ever breaks 100 GB's.... -- "While preceding your entrance with a grenade is a good tactic inQuake, it can lead to problems if attempted at work." -- C Hacking | |
|  |  |  |  |  BF69Premium join:2004-07-28 Camden, TN | said by Michieru2:Moron do you know what he could be transferring at all? It's idiots like you who jump to conclusions and create this hype bubble. Hell I probably use the same amount of bandwidth on simply downloading ISO's for my clients, damn updates or packages from respiratories. Hell I can't afford having tons of drives or CD's because then the crap is outdated a week later and I must re download burn and then transfer. It's easier for me to simply download it to every machine. Sounds like you should be using a BUSINESS acount then. | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  axus join:2001-06-18 Washington, DC | Re: Unlimited... Sounds like you shouldn't be so upset that he's getting a good deal from his internet provider | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |  FiLPremium join:2005-08-16 Silver Spring, MD | Re: Unlimited... ...
sounds like whenever someones asked "why are you downloading so much" the automatic response is: updates/backups/college finals papers and excell spreads...lol
which sounds funny, pirate!
Not saying anythings wrong with that, but grow some ****'s why dont ya! | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  | | Re: Unlimited... said by FiL:... sounds like whenever someones asked "why are you downloading so much" the automatic response is: updates/backups/college finals papers and excell spreads...lol which sounds funny, pirate! Not saying anythings wrong with that, but grow some ****'s why dont ya! Any moron knows that college papers and excel sheets won't ever get past 2GB in a month no matter how big of a load you have.
Hell, HD porn takes up a lot of space. You can do 20+ gigs on that be it legal. PLENTY of things out there to download.
You claiming others are pirates is beyond hilarious, can you prove it? I can find you many things you can download over the Internet and gets gigs a month. You don't know what that file is or isn't so just keep your mouth shut. -- "The constitution is just a goddamn piece of paper."-George W. Bush, Nov. 2005 | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  novaflareThe Dragon Was HerePremium join:2002-01-24 Barberton, OH | Re: Unlimited... said by Obliteration:said by FiL:... sounds like whenever someones asked "why are you downloading so much" the automatic response is: updates/backups/college finals papers and excell spreads...lol which sounds funny, pirate! Not saying anythings wrong with that, but grow some ****'s why dont ya! Any moron knows that college papers and excel sheets won't ever get past 2GB in a month no matter how big of a load you have. Hell, HD porn takes up a lot of space. You can do 20+ gigs on that be it legal. PLENTY of things out there to download. You claiming others are pirates is beyond hilarious, can you prove it? I can find you many things you can download over the Internet and gets gigs a month. You don't know what that file is or isn't so just keep your mouth shut. Hell i can hit 200 gigs a month just beta testing a few games. I had my upload to like 30 gigs before. Pretty funny when TWC called and alerted me to a masive increase in up stream useage. They were worried that i might have been turned in to a pirated software dump. What happened was was hosting a 1 gig beta client download for a game and 2 40 meg updates heh. That month 3 games I was beta testing. Had 1 gig or so client updates and each had over 400 megs of updates. I was testign on at the time 3 computers. Now one had 3 full client downloads over the corse of a month 1 had 1 and the other had 2.
Because of how serious a beta tester i am i tend to do alot of driver updates windows reinstalls and apply various service packs and other large updates and try to pin down the cause of a bug.
Like you said it is not hard to hit that sort of useage legally. Was my hosting of the 1 gig client against my tos not really all my toss said was no "public" "web" servers. My server was a web server yes but it was not serving any web content. It also was not a public server as the beta test was a closed non public beta/alpha. At that time there were less than 500 testers total who worked in 3 time periods essentially shifts. group 1 could only log in between 7 am and 4 pm secound shift started at 4 to 1 am last went from 1 am to 7 am. I only served to shift 1. -- Evil does exist and it has a face to often that face is one that should look on their child with love in their eyes.
Instead only hate exists in those eyes. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  Jafo232You Can't Spell Democrat Without Rat.Premium join:2002-10-17 Boonville, NY | said by FiL:... sounds like whenever someones asked "why are you downloading so much" the automatic response is: updates/backups/college finals papers and excell spreads...lol which sounds funny, pirate! Not saying anythings wrong with that, but grow some ****'s why dont ya! Sheesh, you do realize not everyone uses their PC to jerk off to right?
If I performed all the backups that I am supposed to, I could easily burn through 200 GB in a month. I run a very small hosting service that I administer remotely. I try to backup everyones site once a week (I also give them an option to do it themselves daily). If I had my own datacenter, I would do it daily. When I download the backups, it is about 25 GB's each time.
My Xbox 360 alone downloads about 25 GB a month. Each movie downloaded in HD (from Xbox Live) is about 4.7 GB and many of the game demo's are between 1 and 2 GB. This doesn't even take into account all the bandwidth used during online game play.
Take into account all the other downloading involved in just general surfing, and web development, 200 GB's is easily attainable for myself without even seeing one money shot.
So basically your assumption that anyone using as much bandwidth as I and others do makes them pirates is not only stupid, it is not backed up by anything other than your unsatisfied libido. -- 'Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached' | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  Romney2012Defeat Obama 2012-Chg we can believe inPremium join:2002-03-03 USA kudos:4 | Re: Unlimited... Then you should get a pay for a BUSINESS service and not a residential one. | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  Jafo232You Can't Spell Democrat Without Rat.Premium join:2002-10-17 Boonville, NY | Re: Unlimited... said by Romney2012:Then you should get a pay for a BUSINESS service and not a residential one. Maybe you should too? If you get one email about business, or one phone call through your VOIP phone from your job (if you have one), or have to do ANY business related surfing from home, then you should get a business account.
In fact, if anyone from work calls your POTS line, you should call your telephone company and demand you get a business account.
Now, if you would like to re-enter the world of reality, we are all here waiting for you. -- 'Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached' | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  Romney2012Defeat Obama 2012-Chg we can believe inPremium join:2002-03-03 USA kudos:4 | Re: Unlimited... said by Jafo232:said by Romney2012:Then you should get a pay for a BUSINESS service and not a residential one. Maybe you should too? If you get one email about business, or one phone call through your VOIP phone from your job (if you have one), or have to do ANY business related surfing from home, then you should get a business account. In fact, if anyone from work calls your POTS line, you should call your telephone company and demand you get a business account. Now, if you would like to re-enter the world of reality, we are all here waiting for you. Your points are not responsive to the main issue. You are RUNNING a BUSINESS thru your home internet connection. All the points you raise don't address that. Instead they go off on a tangent that has nothing to do with what you are doing. -- -- My BLOG My Web Page | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  kamm join:2001-02-14 Brooklyn, NY | said by BF69:said by Michieru2:Moron do you know what he could be transferring at all? It's idiots like you who jump to conclusions and create this hype bubble. Hell I probably use the same amount of bandwidth on simply downloading ISO's for my clients, damn updates or packages from respiratories. Hell I can't afford having tons of drives or CD's because then the crap is outdated a week later and I must re download burn and then transfer. It's easier for me to simply download it to every machine. Sounds like you should be using a BUSINESS acount then. Business account has NOTHING to do with this. Stop spreading the corporate BS, please. --
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|  |  |  |  |  |  |  batterupI Can Not Tell A Lie.Premium join:2003-02-06 Netcong, NJ Reviews:
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Unlimited... said by kamm: Business account has NOTHING to do with this. Stop spreading the corporate BS, please. You porn addicted kids really don't expect me to pay for your bandwidth do you? | |
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 |  |  |  DaMaGeINCThe Lan ManPremium join:2002-06-08 Greenville, SC kudos:2 | said by BF69:said by Loker:sometimes my bandwidth usage can get excessive (I think I was over 200 GB's one month) and I have yet to have any issues with Comcast.... Man you steal a lot of stuff. I sure do? guna call me a stealer too? Please stop ur everyone's a theif crap. No one cares what you think of them. -- inc.ath.cx Have a Networking problem or question? Stop by the Networking Forum and let us help you. | |
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 |  |  |  |  MordhemLove it, Hate it. join:2003-07-10 Baltimore, MD | Re: Unlimited... Same here! lol | |
|  |  |  |  |  quatrixPremium join:2005-02-11 Davie, FL kudos:2 1 edit | "I cant count how many I download. If its good. I got it! The stuff comes out in almost dvd quality and for free. Why would I want to drive my lazy ass across town to go spend $20+ to see a movie. I would be a very poor man if I paid for all the movies I downloaded. shesh." | |
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 |  |  | | Well Ive been DLing roughly 15GBs of stuff per day and Ive been doing it for several years now. I used to use TWC then they get ticked and try to "upgrade" my subscription after the 6month term expired. Then I switched to earthlink and do the same. Then back to TWC under a different identity. But now for the past year I use cantennas and several different sources for my DLing and it just goes on and on. I am pretty optomistic at this point that I will manage to download EVERYTHING eventually. Neat huh? I especially like the anonimity I have from all those **aa meatheads that like to pick on poor folk. I cant see how they could ever knock on my door so I sleep real good. The way I see it if they want to missuse the legal system and bankrupt suspects into submission, then we should beat them over the head with annonomous cantennas. So head down to your local CompUSA or grocery store, and join the invincible army. After all, its the right thing to do.  | |
|  |  |  |  | | Re: Unlimited... Just wondering, what's a "cantenna"? | |
|  |  |  |  |  RadioDoc58ef2c0Premium,ExMod 2000-03 join:2000-05-11 | Re: Unlimited... It's a high-gain microwave antenna, when home made usually consists of a Pringles can.
»www.cantenna.com/ | |
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 |  1 edit | I would disagree, unlimited access is unlimited use. If you cap someones ability to download you are effectively stopping their use of the Internet.
How can one use the Internet if you can't "download" a web page. The page is viewed on your PC but much of the content id downloaded to your PC in the form of temp files, graphics, and all the neat little html junk.
How can one transfer e-mail if one can not download or upload the mail file? Really they should just get rid of the word unlimited...it is a throw back to the days when you paid for hours in the old AOL dial up sense. | |
|  |  |  NickPurveyor of common sensePremium,VIP,MVM join:2000-10-29 Smithtown, NY | Re: Unlimited... said by AnonProxy:I would disagree, unlimited access is unlimited use. If you cap someones ability to download you are effectively stopping their use of the Internet. Actually, I'll disagree with your disagreement. Nobody is stopping your ability to download/upload content. They are simply reducing your ability to do so by creating a virtual "speed limit".
Perhaps a poor analogy, but I will try anyway. You buy a german sports car. The car itself has an electronic limiter preventing you from going over 130 mph even though if the limiter is removed you can go 150mph. Nobody complains about that. Similarly, the whole speed limit thing. Posted speed limit is 55mph around me, yet people go 70 and don't get pulled over. Some people choose to push their limits and go 80 and they DO get pulled over. Internet companies are really no different, they don't say "you can download 30 gigs a month...and we'll really let you slide at 40..but once you hit 50 we shut off your internet" they say you have unlimited access (which is true) and they try to throttle people who are significantly out of the bell curve. -- Stupidity, like hydrogen, is one of the basic building blocks of the Universe.
Gallery * Life * Work | |
|  |  |  |  | | Re: Unlimited... Number 1, you're talking about VOLUME and not SPEED. If we were using a closer analogy, they would throttle your connection speed down as you neared the limit. In addition, on highways we have speed limit signs so you always know what speed is allowed. ISPs would rather let the fiction of unlimited internet continue to encourage sales while setting secret limits. | |
|  |  |  |  |  axus join:2001-06-18 Washington, DC Reviews:
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Unlimited... Yeah, a better analogy would be the Department of Transportation limiting the number of miles you can drive in a month, because when people drive too much they have to build more roads and there's a lot of traffic.
People put up with traffic, speed limits, and state taxes, but we're not going to accept road mileage limits. What ISPs should do is continue upgrading at the pace their revenue can afford, and let people be limited by the heavy traffic. | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  batterupI Can Not Tell A Lie.Premium join:2003-02-06 Netcong, NJ Reviews:
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Unlimited... said by axus:Yeah, a better analogy would be the Department of Transportation limiting the number of miles you can drive in a month, because when people drive too much they have to build more roads and there's a lot of traffic. People put up with traffic, speed limits, and state taxes, but we're not going to accept road mileage limits. What ISPs should do is continue upgrading at the pace their revenue can afford, and let people be limited by the heavy traffic. The more miles one drives the more gas one uses and the more tax one pays. One pays for every mile. | |
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 |  |  |  | | There are two issues,
1. Pure caps...meaning that at x GB of data you are shut off for the month. That's not speed, that's a cap and that is NOT unlimited.
2. Throttling...certainly an issue but not the same as a cap. To that end cutting speed from your pure maximum speed is an ACCESS issue...to that end if I pay for 10MB down, it's not unlimited but it is advertised a price for a speed, they should not cut my speed based on what I download. | |
|  |  |  |  |  NickPurveyor of common sensePremium,VIP,MVM join:2000-10-29 Smithtown, NY | Re: Unlimited... Ok, we need to clarify something...
Cable companies (while often do,) try not to piss off their customers. Lost customers = Lost Revenue
Cable companies will try not suspend your service which you equate to capping. Capping is "reducing capacity" for you to abuse the infrastructure and hinder other people's service. While before you could download at 10 megabits per second, they throttle you to half a megabit. This is not "denying you access", it's forcefully modifying your behavior in such a way that other paying customers are not affected.
Each Cable company does it differently, some will send you a warning letter saying you have been marked as using exceedingly large amounts of data. Others will throttle you as a warning. Eventually if you are considered as a repeat offender they cut you off. In the end Cable is not a right, it's not written into the Constitution or the Bill of Rights, it's a product you buy just like buying a happy meal at McDonalds, it's a business that must be profitable for it to be around.
As an excersize, locate a local place that allows you to refill your soda for free when you buy it at the place. Bring a large container with you and fill it up with your free soda and see how fast you get thrown out for abusing something you paid for. -- Stupidity, like hydrogen, is one of the basic building blocks of the Universe.
Gallery * Life * Work | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  | | Re: Unlimited... Digital packets aren't the same as a physical commodity like soda. The problem is politicans and regulators now consider telcos as such, as traditional free market companies, when really internet access should be a utility. If it isn't unlimited, they shouldn't advertise it as such.
That would be like if I had an unlimited long-distance phone service, but then because I was using it too much (in the opinion of someone at the company), they decided to limit the areas I could call to. | |
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 |  |  dadkinsCan you do Blu?Premium,MVM join:2003-09-26 Hercules, CA kudos:18 2 edits | I'm connected ATM, I have been connected for nearly 4 years(barring computer restarts).
To me, that is Unlimited *ACCESS*.
I don't download every single file I see... there's no point in it! Unlimited Use is just that, lighting up mega-downloads and running 24/7. No one advertises that, sure as hell not Comcast!
Email? If you are sending out email at a constant 384-768k(2mbps?), I sure as shit hope they terminate you! I hate spammers!
If you are downloading hundreds of GB per month, then you are likely degrading the network for everyone. I hope they actually cut your coax! Sorry!
I pay for Speed and 24/7 Access. I get both! I am not paying for terabytes of data transfers. That would cost a hell of alot more than $52.95 per month!
Everything here works "As Advertised". Connection is always up, always fast when I need it, and I always have access to it.
THAT is Unlimited Access. -- Think outside the Fox... Opera | |
|  |  |  |  | | Re: Unlimited... Access is a usable pipe, if they cap you at 10 GB of download a month...and then you can't access the Internet or e-mail. because you can no longer download anything, the pipe is not usable....that is not unlimited ACCESS, that's not even decent access.
By your definition, as long as they are giving you IP and you can't even go anywhere, that's proof of unlimited access.
And more so at least drop the straw man drama. No one said I'm downloading or uploading or doing anything of the sort at the max capacity...I am offering an example, but as you seem to need to make it inflametory I will give you a simple example.
Let's say I have a business account, I have "unlimited INTERNET ACCESS" (as it is sold. I also have an web based offsite back up of my local business data. Every day I pump out about 300MB of data at 1am or so to my back up service...(I have a decent connection, 10/5)...so I do my thing, we do work every day run the office though the day use the Internet...then on day 16 or so no Internet...because why? I suddenly find out I have a total cap of 9 GB of data on my "UNLIMITED INTERNET ACCESS"
Short version, just tell people what they have, not make up some marketing term to complete.
If a rental car company said you had unlimited miles then charged you for ever mile after 300...they would end up in court by the AG of the state(s) they run in.
Unlimited means unlimited. | |
|  |  |  |  |  dadkinsCan you do Blu?Premium,MVM join:2003-09-26 Hercules, CA kudos:18 | Re: Unlimited... Right! Usable, not ABUSABLE.
If anyone has the need to download multi-hundred GBs of data, get something other than a residential service.
Unlimited *ACCESS* means - unlimited access to the service, not unlimited data transfers.
It doesn't matter what you or I interpret what it means, it's THEIR network!
If they say no more, you get no more! If you agreed to this, then you are SOL!
Since I have never gone over 40GB per month, I can reasonably rest assured that I will never get a call.
Go ahead and do whatever you wish, I'll see you in Rants and Raves!  -- Think outside the Fox... Opera | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  | | Re: Unlimited... Sorry, when you access the internet, that is data transfer. What is accessing the internet other than downloading and uploading data?
That would be like if a rental car company told me I had unlimited "use" of the car, but then after a certain number of miles the car wouldn't start. I can open the door and get in but not drive, and most people don't consider "using" a car to be just sitting in it doing nothing! Just like "using" a car means driving, to any reasonable person you're not accessing the internet if you can open the browser but nothing appears. | |
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 |  |  |  | | said by dadkins:I pay for Speed and 24/7 Access. I get both! I am not paying for terabytes of data transfers. That would cost a hell of alot more than $52.95 per month! Everything here works "As Advertised". Connection is always up, always fast when I need it, and I always have access to it. THAT is Unlimited Access. Stop ranting BS!!!! Most Comcast customers DO NOT receive speeds "As Advertised" i was formerly a happy adelphia hsi customer receiving over advertised 6/768 @ 6/840 and it was always as advertised... then came Comcast. It has been a horror show since they showed up. My speeds are between 1/640 - 3/640 not even near near advertised let alone what i was getting just a day before Comcast took over. So stop advertising your crappy comcast connection when most of the people who have/had comcast know its a crap/ripoff service .... (About the only time you'll receive good speed are like 1:00am - 10:00pm when everyone sleeping)and upload speed is always crap @640-740 kbps .... and on top of all this is there monthly cap -_- | |
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 |  |  Stumbles join:2002-12-17 Port Saint Lucie, FL | I have to agree. To me unlimited access implies unlimited use. If you have limited access, then you would have limited use.
I think to segregate access and use is an insult to peoples intelligence. | |
|  |  |  |  dadkinsCan you do Blu?Premium,MVM join:2003-09-26 Hercules, CA kudos:18 | Re: Unlimited... I'm connected right now. That's access to Comcast's network.
I'm not using it until I hit "Post Now!" for this post, or go to a server somwhere and start a download or upload.
All of my various meters indicate that I am not "using" any bandwidth. But, one of the indicators informs me that I am connected none the less.
Access and use is two totally different aspects of one's internet connection. -- Think outside the Fox... Opera | |
|  |  |  |  |  | | Re: Unlimited... Absolutely not for this discussion.
The common vernacular of "Internet Access" means that there is the ability to access the Internet for use. | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  dadkinsCan you do Blu?Premium,MVM join:2003-09-26 Hercules, CA kudos:18 1 edit | Re: Unlimited... said by AnonProxy:Absolutely not for this discussion. The common vernacular of "Internet Access" means that there is the ability to access the Internet for use. Use and abuse have two very different meanings. Since it is Comcast's(or whomever's) network, and you & I agreed to the TOS/AUP, we have to accept whatever they say!
*WE* are free to terminate our services at any time and look for another provider.
I have nothing to worry about. Do you? -- Think outside the Fox... Opera | |
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 |  |  fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium join:2005-05-20 kudos:3 | I am SOOOOO in disagreement with you!
You want to de-evolve? You WANT to go to a metered service JUST so you can know a limit? That's rubbish!
People who consume a lot of bandwidth know it. Not only do they know it, they often then brag about it and then follow it up by "but they told me it was unlimited.."
The system, the way it is, works like this (with cable that is) .. they look at the performance of a node. They see that if it slows down, they first look to why it slows down. If the use is normal and it's just people are using it and clogging up the node, then they have to look into a node split. Second, if it's a hog causing the bottlenecks, they eliminate the hog. And then when the hog is cut off and tries to play the game in return, they wind up walking away butt hurt like this guy...
»www.youtube.com/watch?v=OL_IrjQoLK0
(a guy that came here looking for sympathy a little bit ago)
People read what they want and walk away from something with what is convenient for them even when the answers are right in front of them. No where does it say "come eat all the data you can!" It is advertised to make things faster.. get things done quicker.. stuff like that. "Download music in an instant.." not "turn your computer on and have it download music non-stop".. that's where the "typical residential use" terms come in. But, those who choose to ignore that very important line, will.
So, to make broadband metered JUST to make those who like to be heavy user feel better about what they do, I'm very much against it.
The service is for residential use, period. Cable TV in general has always revolved around residential use. So long as DSL is out there, those heavy users can take the slower DSL option. If DSL isn't available, then well...? play by the rules of the provider. There is nothing out there that says 'please use the service as you want, it's your right!' .. because it's not.
And for the record, you say "they should just get rid of the word UNLIMITED".... got news for you... you have to go YEARS back to see that word. -- "Wipe out the national deficit over night... Tax the stupid!" - about 50 gMail invites available. PM if you'd like one. | |
|  |  |  |  See 19 replies to this post | |
 |  |  bohn join:2006-05-30 Scarborough, ON | Up in Canada our balls are capped and speed throttled. As well they'll speed throttle your bank account if you go over those rinky dinky 30 gigabytes a month caps. | |
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 |  openbox9 join:2004-01-26 Alexandria, VA kudos:2 2 edits | I think a lot fewer people would have problems with the limited "unlimited" service if ISPs openly advertised their caps and explained their processes for throttling. The unscrupulous act of allowing customers to believe the facade of unlimited access data transfer and then smacking them down with caps and/or throttling tends to leave really bad tastes in consumers' mouths. Personally, I'm all for a 100/100 connection to the Internet if I know that I can download whatever and however much as I want up to a predefined and advertised cap (e.g. 50GB/mth, 100GB/mth, etc.). If I go over the cap, throttle me, disconnect me, or charge me more as long as I know in advance. Hell, bill me at the 95th percentile that most ISPs themselves are billed at. | |
|  |  |  See 8 replies to this post | |
 |  Romney2012Defeat Obama 2012-Chg we can believe inPremium join:2002-03-03 USA kudos:4 | said by dadkins:In other words, you can be connected to the network forever if you wish, not download the planet. Very sensible read on the reality. Unfortunately, there are plenty of idiots on the internet that think because they have a fast connection, that gives them "THE RIGHT UNDER GOD AND THE LAW" to download full speed 24x7 even though they will never in a lifetime be able to read, watch, or listen to all they have downloaded. Even when the TOS says they do not have that right. Of course, these morons never read the TOS, so they claim ignorance as the excuse to do as they please. Then they are shocked and indignant when the ISP cuts them off. -- -- My BLOG My Web Page | |
|  |  |  | | Re: Unlimited... I'm not sure. Most people who use the internet, non-technical people who don't really know how it works, probably would think so and it doesn't mean they're stupid. They sign up for broadband access like they would for phone services.
Now if you have a cell phone plan that has unlimited use, then it doesn't count your minutes so you could talk on it all the time if you wanted to with no additional charge. I can see how people signing up for "unlimited" broadband would think the same way. | |
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 |  dvd536as Mr. Pink as they comePremium join:2001-04-27 Phoenix, AZ kudos:4 | said by dadkins:Most(if not all) ISPs advertise - Unlimited Internet Access, not Unlimited use. In other words, you can be connected to the network forever if you wish, not download the planet. Can anyone show me where it says, on *ANY* ad, where an ISP states Unlimited data transfers for residential services? I have nothing to ever worry about myself, I don't light up a newsreader and try to download everything in alt.binaries.dvd. LOL! Of course, YMMV, Thats because you already have everything thats on alt.binaries.dvd  -- You can never be too rich, too thin or have too much Bandwidth | |
|  |  MadMANNPremium join:2005-08-19 kudos:2 | said by dadkins:Most(if not all) ISPs advertise - Unlimited Internet Access, not Unlimited use. In other words, you can be connected to the network forever if you wish, not download the planet. Can anyone show me where it says, on *ANY* ad, where an ISP states Unlimited data transfers for residential services? I have nothing to ever worry about myself, I don't light up a newsreader and try to download everything in alt.binaries.dvd. LOL! Of course, YMMV, If I remember right, it was AOL dialup who started charging per hour back in the day. That is what sparked competing ISPs to start advertising "unlimited" internet access, meaning unlimited TIME. Somehow, people re-translated that into "unlimited amounts".
Now that broadband is commonplace and people can download at very quick speeds, the term "unlimited" needs to be redefined. I don't think there is even a dialup ISP that charges per hour anymore that I know of. | |
|  |  |  |  |  batterupI Can Not Tell A Lie.Premium join:2003-02-06 Netcong, NJ Reviews:
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Unlimited... Unlimited use 2.0Mbps/1.5Mbps $499.99 | |
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 qdemn7Smurf in My LoopPremium join:2003-09-16 Fort Worth, TX | Charge by the Gigabyte The idea of "unlimited broadband" is going to eventually go away, IMO. Either the ISPs will be forced by government action to change their advertising to reflect reality, or else, more likely, they'll start charging by the gig. -- Those who complain the loudest about their loss of rights under the Patriot Act seem to be the first ones to try to take away others rights under the Second Amendment. | |
|  |  See 9 replies to this post | |
 Derfel join:2004-06-06 Winnipeg, MB Reviews:
·MTS
| Transfer the idea... Take this idea, that 5% of the ISP's users are "bandwidth hogs", and move it to the realm of cycling.
Say that 5% of the population "cycle" more than 45% of the total cycling mileage for a given city. Should they be punished? Made to pay more taxes for sidewalk/bike trail repair? Or did they choose to use the available "trail service" as supplied by the municipality for their own uses? Should the people who only cycle on Sunday afternoons for leisure be refunded part of their taxes because they do not contribute as much to trail wear and tear as those who commute to work by bike?
It's so odd that ISP's like to whine when people use their product as advertised. If they wanted people to just email and check their stocks, why not just advertise their service as such, rather than using music and movie downloads in their ads? | |
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 IgnitePremium,VIP join:2004-03-18 UK | Ellacoya Poster Child Plusnet are a huge throttler of their customers, they are literally the Ellacoya poster child. Big use of the Ellacoya API and advanced subscriber management, however they have lacked investment in bandwidth so heavily that even priority traffic on their network sometimes doesn't have enough bandwith to go unimpeded.
The actual average usage is higher for most ISPs than Plusnet, they just throttle the hell out of their customers.
That said I do agree with them. As average data usage goes up unless either prices go up or cost of providing the services goes down accordingly then those currently providing the totally unlimited services will have to rethink. | |
|  bigjimc join:2003-04-21 Middleboro, MA | I measured my use last month I consider myself a heavy non-business, non-ftp, non-site host, non-uploader/downloader of torrents.
But I stream Sat. Radio for hours and watch streaming video from network TV (can watch a 1 hour show in 42 minutes). I download/watch legal free movies/laugh at Youtube and I intend to watch up to 18 hours of Netflix movies a month (streaming)
I seem to keep my use about 50GB per month (not including Netflix), but I see more people moving toward my number with VOIP and Video on Demand, Video conferencing and more.
Side note:
Isn't it funny how internet use is "a problem" from 4 to midnight. It is obvious why but cell phones are free after 7 pm (business use accounts for the bulk costs). Maybe the cellphone companies will be changing that again. Back to 9 pm and no free weekends...... | |
|  Reviews:
·Optimum Online
·Verizon FiOS
| uk has a dwindling population.. When you actually talk about the growing customer base of the Americas, and Asia.. the metrics work much better.. and technology is available to grow the internet significantly with established technologies such as fiber and concentrated switching centers. Still, providers don't really stress conservation mostly when they can get away with abusing FAP policies (fair access policies).. if they did they would give customers tools to monitor how much bandwidth they actually use per day, week, month, year, etc.. ISP'S certainly have the data-- if they want to empower customers to conserve they need to make the metrics available as an account tool..even if there isn't really a hard limit in unlimited. I doubt many would use the tool to chew up MORE bandwidth would they?
Right now in the USA that is simply unnecessary.. as bandwidth speeds are not really where they should be.. so conservation is already built into the system.. with sub 10megabits speed caps (for the majority of customers here) and upload caps which are pitiful.. right now the costly part of metrics are the TRANSMITTAL (rather than reception), distance and time as a major factor in costs (number of hops,number packets, and speed/latency/prioritization).
Honestly, I think the UK is getting off light... other European nations are pushing ahead with massive multi-billion dollar/euro plans to light fiber across the map with oodles of bandwidth for a pittance (France, Germany, and the nordic lands-- Netherlands, Sweden, Holland, etc).. Why doesn't it cost less in the UK? Could be a reason the population is sinking..
Companies need to start to think BIG in their infrastructure plans or pack it in.. there is no such thing as TOO much bandwidth.. people want an internet to do video the same way it does voice, and web pages.. that is "instant gratification" and QOS.. this will need to make a sea change in the way the networks brought to scale. | |
|  RARPSL join:1999-12-08 Suffern, NY | Statistics "The top 1% each used an average of 120.94GB, nearly double the 66.03GB used by the next percentile. The average customer used 6.19GB, although removing the heaviest 10% of users cuts that to 2.35GB."
Which average are they using for that 6.19GB/2.35GB (There are 3 types of measures called "average")?
The one that everyone thinks of as "average" is the total of all usage divided by the number of users. There is also the usage value that half of the users exceed and half are less than. The third is the usage value that the largest number of users measure.
By not identifying your methodology, you can give any impression you want by choosing the method that gives the best number for your purpose (Check out the classic book on this topic - "How to Lie with Statistics" by Huff). I'd be interested in seeing the actual numbers/graph (a graph is mentioned in the article but not included).
No matter what you measure you are going to have those who use the most. The question is if that usage is "excessive" or just is portrayed as such due to being the largest values. | |
|  |  Homebrew1994Betzwood Basement Brewery join:2001-11-15 King Of Prussia, PA | Re: Statistics said by RARPSL:Which average are they using for that 6.19GB/2.35GB (There are 3 types of measures called "average")? The one that everyone thinks of as "average" is the total of all usage divided by the number of users. There is also the usage value that half of the users exceed and half are less than. The third is the usage value that the largest number of users measure. No, Only the Mean Value is the Average. The point where 50% of the values lie above and 50% below is the Median. The point where the largest occurrence of values occur is the Mode.
Median and Mode are not substitutes for Average. -- My other cyber-pasttime, Where's George Miserable Failure | |
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 RayWPremium join:2001-09-01 Layton, UT kudos:1 | Another solution Everyone complains about the situation, but it seems to me that few people have considered TANSTAAFL (for you lesser read people, "There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch").
Unlimited ACCESS is just that, access. That does not say what your limitations are, just that you can get there whenever you feel like it, even 24/7. Unlimited USAGE on the other hand means that you can use it as much as you want, 1 terabyte or 100 terabyte, no matter.
One fair way to solve this entire problem (and it will probably never be done because it impacts several different areas) is to charge a base fee for ACCESS that covers all the costs of doing business that are not directly related to bandwidth costs to the outside plus 'planning for the future' fund requirements and other items a well run business should be saving for. This fee will vary month to month depending on how many people are customers and what broke during the month. Then you are charged for USAGE, again this will vary depending how much the ISP has to pay the next level up for each byte leaving for what we call the internet.
I know this will raise a lot of ire, especially from those who are accustomed to playing the system against its self, but you will also have a better feel for the real cost of the internet, not the average cost that many people think is the actual cost. Many ISPs hold heavily used files (like linux distros) on site that will make your costs lower, so if you have a good ISP your costs can be lower. -- I am not lost, I find myself every time. | |
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 FiLPremium join:2005-08-16 Silver Spring, MD | Why is it so hard to advertise the exact meaning of "Unlimited Access"?
OF Course!
To make money using false advertising. Another semantics dick-up-the-arse...Like Dorito's being advertised as 99cents but actually being $1.04... | |
|  | | I work for an ISP and ... ... well, perhaps you do too, but we're not here to bump chests.
So moving on to the matter at hand, the simple fact is folks are just plain using far more bandwidth than they were, even just 1 year ago.
The department I work in handles long term planning and capacity issues, and I can assure you that the areas in which these increases in bandwidth affect our hardware(upgrade requirements such as new switches, faster cards for the switches, etc) and circuits (upgraded circuits are not as big a deal as hardware costs) will eventually force most providers to pay additional costs to keep up with the demand.
If that does NOT happen, customers will begin to see degraded service, such as dropped packets, less speed than "promised", and all sorts of misc. issues.
In general, an ISP will do its best to shy away from applying limits based on content or shall I say protocol, port numbers, etc., or even outright bandwidth limits as much as it can. There are already pricing tiers for different speeds and services (business vs consumer), so there may not be much room to maneuver in that area.
So, as you sit down and download the latest video (i dont care where you get it from), keep in mind that the exponential growth of media-heavy content these days will eventually begin to push and pull apart the very nuts and bolts of the economic basis upon which some ISPs survive.
Yes, it will all work itself out in some fashion or another, but I will guarantee you some growing pains, specially if those who benefit from these downloads (google, youtube (oh wait, did i get redundant?), itunes, or any media heavy content provider) are unwilling to participate in taking a share of the responsibility.
Hey, maybe they dont have to. Thats fine too. But at some point either something gives or something goes. It will be an interesting next couple years, as we see audio and video content mold the Internet from what we know it to be today into the something entirely different that it will necessarily have to become in order to survive.
Eventually the strong survive and the weak die, and I fear that will leave us with entities too strong and too few for us to have any concept of competition in this industry. | |
|  |  | | Re: I work for an ISP and ... I agree with you. But my issue with an ISP like Comcast is that if you are making good profits well over what is expected, upgrade your network to handle the demands but also design the network to place a channel on each and every user that is on it. The pipes can be designed to let up to a certain amount travel through without degrading another's. Get rid of the SHARED design and be honest with people. I don't see why Comcast can't do it. | |
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 kokuryu join:2000-10-10 Hollywood, FL | How about some real discussions? I see a lot of whining here...
Legally, Unlimited Access is exactly the same as Unlimited Use and Unlimited Data Transfers - there are no distinctions between the three. Any distinctions trying to be made are splitting hairs. All of the advertisers that say "Unlimited" and then cap what you can do are doing so illegally.
As far as data transfers go, just by downloading my morning email I burn up nearly 300 Mb. In a typical day, I download about 4 to 5 Gb of information and upload about 2 Gb of information. Other people in the office also have similar bandwidth usages like me. We service several hundred websites from here.
But that being aside, my MOTHER, a complete and total Internet moron for all purposes, uses about 1 to 2 Gb of internet traffic a DAY from home. And all she does is browese sites, read information and occasionally look at a news clip or two.
All of you people out there attacking everyone who has high bandwidth usage should really take a look at what the real world usage on the net is, and what the real traffic is. Your automatic assumptions that everyone is a "pirate" is completely wrong. | |
|  |  | | Re: How about some real discussions? Thank you for that last post. | |
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 heels_fan1.20.09 The start of SocialismPremium join:2003-02-07 Columbia, TN kudos:1 | Why? Why are the ISP moaning and whining about this? Bandwidth is so cheap right. | |
|  |  | | Re: Why? Because like any other corporate behemoth, they are driven by pure greed. Comcast especially. Charge expensive rates, use outdated, bad network design and equipment and try to enforce ever changing rules and screw people doing it. | |
|  |  |  JigglywareGelatin based computing join:2006-01-09 Kenosha, WI | Re: Why? Exactly. They'd really prefer it if they never even had to put a connection out to you, and you'd just hand them money. Of course, that would never fly in the real world, but they try to get as close to that reality as possible.
You know how they qualify their speeds as being "up to" a certain amount, why can't they say you can transfer "up to" a certain number of gigabytes?
They'll never do this of course, because they hope their customers wouldn't know a gigabyte if one gigabit them in the ass, keeping the whole concept nebulous enough that nobody realizes exactly what it is they're paying for. And what exactly they are not getting for their money. | |
|  |  |  |  | | Re: Why? Thank you. At least Verizon I know what I'm getting becuase they clearly stated it to me. Least they were honest about it when I signed up. I just got another pathetic attack attempt on me on YOU TUBE by a user that clearly doesn't know what the hell he's talking about. SAD. | |
|
 | | a good analogy - public highways a good analogy of unlimited access could be our public highways....
evryone with a car has unlimited access to the road, but as more and more people enter the road, the slower the traffic.
still... people will continue to enter the road since the goal is to get somewhere. if the condition gets to a point where no one can move, the driver changes course, or after a period of years, the government steps in and builds new roads.
in internet access the analogy is similar. ISPs continue to add more users. those users then get on the internet and for the most part enjoy the speed they get. they continue to use the internet to get what they want. if the "highway" gets overloaded, they continue to use it, but with degraded service. this continues until such time that people start to complain, and then the ISP can take two routes, one is where they improve the road, or secondly start to eliminate those people who use the road too much. obviously it's cheaper for the ISP to terminate the heavy users, rather than invest in infrastructure.
perhaps it's time for the governments to step in and take control of the internet, the same way that they did for roads. | |
|  |  | | Re: a good analogy - public highways Thank you for that analogy. It's what I was saying. With record profits, I don't see why Comcast can't upgrade the network equipment to handle the users. They would rather take this cheap bully-type of approach and what gets me is just how short-sighted many of these users are that defend Comcast. They don't want to see the bigger scope of the problem. Comcast's network CANNOT handle the ever growing number of users on it. With more users it will continue to become a problem as people see the speed and will continue to take advantage of it. Comcast may be profiting, but as soon as people realize just how terrible they really are (and I'm not the only user that used the network a lot) they will leave. There are MANY out there that are heavy users and like I said before, it's not going to stop. The internet is an super-information highway and people are using it to shame companies and bring them in check. Keep talking and you will get enough people that will listen.
The DSL providers are spending millions upgrading their networks to handle the increasing number of users and traffic.
I read an article a while ago about the CEO of Comcast in which he made some rather arrogant comments about DSL providers (that are now providing fiber-optic and from what I understand the speeds will be something like 10 to 45 megs per second and) how he doesn't believe that no one will ever want that kind of speed. How stupid, short-sighted, arrogant and idiotic of a comment like that. But what do you expect? That's the way he runs this company. | |
|  |  batterupI Can Not Tell A Lie.Premium join:2003-02-06 Netcong, NJ Reviews:
·Verizon Online DSL
| said by awaybbl :
perhaps it's time for the governments to step in and take control of the internet, the same way that they did for roads. What do you suggest stealing the assets of the widows and orphans that own the network or buying it? The government doesn't have the money to buy it so I assume you want them to steal it. Nice, starve widows and orphans so you can down load massive amounts of porn cheaply. | |
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