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Usage-Billing Takes Hold In Canada
Where last-generation DSL can cost you hundreds of dollars
With heavier wholesale and retail usage-based billing recently greenlighted by Canadian regulators (preventing competitors from offering uncapped service), we noted yesterday that Bell Canada was now charging DSL users a variety of costly new per gigabyte overages. Several users have written in to note that Bell Canada competitor Primus, pushed into the situation by Canadian regulators and Bell Canada, will also begin to charge DSL users extra starting the first week of February. A letter being sent to users:
quote:
The CRTC’s decision directly affects the High-Speed Internet service provided to you by Primus Canada and, unfortunately, the newly associated costs to Primus make the unlimited Internet service you are now enjoying no longer financially viable. This serves as 30 days notice that beginning February 1, 2011 there will be changes to your Internet service provided by Primus. As a result, the following changes will apply commencing your February invoice: Your existing High Speed Internet plan will now have 25GB of monthly usage included. For the minority of customers who exceed this amount, additional usage up to 300GB will be charged at $2.00/GB to a maximum of $60.00/month. Usage in excess of 300GB per month will be charged an additional $1.10/GB Additional Usage Plans can be purchased starting at $5/month for an additional 40GB.
In other words, already-expensive last generation Canadian broadband services are now getting more expensive, thanks to Canadian regulators and the nation's wealthiest carriers.
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topics flat nest 

QuakeFrag
Premium Member
join:2003-06-13
NH

QuakeFrag

Premium Member

.

January... February. I assume it is February.

AkFubar
Admittedly, A Teksavvy Fan
join:2005-02-28
Toronto CAN.

AkFubar

Member

Less for More $

Yup... we're getting less for more $ here in Canada.
Folsomite
join:2010-05-03
Folsom, CA

Folsomite

Member

Re: Less for More $

Buddy, I have been trying to get support for an American take over of Canada for years. This may be the incentive people needs. There is no way the US wouldn't go war to control Canadian Bacon prices but will go to Iraq for oil. Before you know it, you'll have all our modern conveniences. What till you guys get a load of Pajama Jeans! Competitive capped internet is one thing. Saying good bye to women in sweatpeats is another.

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

FFH5

Premium Member

Cord-cutting and HD video inevitably driving new UBB

Everybody could see this coming. As people started streaming and downloading HD video, the exponential increase in traffic was bound to drive the internet providers in to UBB plans. This is happening in Canada now, but it will start happening in the US soon. And the recent FCC rules have given the green light to US based ISPs to convert to UBB schemes. TCP based point to point video is not an efficient way of delivering video. Broadcast channels(OTA or thru cable channels) were.
Gami00
join:2010-03-11
Mississauga, ON

Gami00

Member

Re: Cord-cutting and HD video inevitably driving new UBB

the funny thing is..

digital distribution of non video items (I.e. games, via steam/onlive) has no bearing on cord cutting and HD video.

why should this affect all bandwidth usage?

if it's solely for Video reasons, then it should only affect those items.

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

FFH5

Premium Member

Re: Cord-cutting and HD video inevitably driving new UBB

said by Gami00:

the funny thing is..

digital distribution of non video items (I.e. games, via steam/onlive) has no bearing on cord cutting and HD video.

why should this affect all bandwidth usage?

if it's solely for Video reasons, then it should only affect those items.

Massive software distribution downloads instead of delivering software by disc has also driven the need for UBB. Thanks for the reminder.
Gami00
join:2010-03-11
Mississauga, ON

Gami00

Member

Re: Cord-cutting and HD video inevitably driving new UBB

yah, it's more economical to cut down rain forest and trees, and burn their end byproduct later, then to get it in a no-packaged digital distribution method..

well, the big telco/cableco companies better put more money towards saving the environment, as they're the only ones that will afford to do it.

all consumers with UBB and other restrictive measures put in place, should no longer care about it. besides, you didn't do anything for the environment with your limited contributions anyway....
talz13
join:2006-03-15
Avon, OH

talz13

Member

Bad math?

Your existing High Speed Internet plan will now have 25GB of monthly usage included. For the minority of customers who exceed this amount, additional usage up to 300GB will be charged at $2.00/GB to a maximum of $60.00/month.

So they will bill you for extra charges past 25GB @ $2.00/GB, for up to 300GB. The max charge you can get is $60.00/month. That means they can really only bill you extra up to 30GB of over-use? Why do they bother with the other 270GB of over-use?

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

FFH5

Premium Member

Re: Bad math?

said by talz13:

Your existing High Speed Internet plan will now have 25GB of monthly usage included. For the minority of customers who exceed this amount, additional usage up to 300GB will be charged at $2.00/GB to a maximum of $60.00/month.

So they will bill you for extra charges past 25GB @ $2.00/GB, for up to 300GB. The max charge you can get is $60.00/month. That means they can really only bill you extra up to 30GB of over-use? Why do they bother with the other 270GB of over-use?

It would be fairer to prorate that $60 over the extra 275 GB of usage and bill at rate of approx $.22/GB.
88615298 (banned)
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness

88615298 (banned)

Member

Re: Bad math?

said by FFH5:

said by talz13:

Your existing High Speed Internet plan will now have 25GB of monthly usage included. For the minority of customers who exceed this amount, additional usage up to 300GB will be charged at $2.00/GB to a maximum of $60.00/month.

So they will bill you for extra charges past 25GB @ $2.00/GB, for up to 300GB. The max charge you can get is $60.00/month. That means they can really only bill you extra up to 30GB of over-use? Why do they bother with the other 270GB of over-use?

It would be fairer to prorate that $60 over the extra 275 GB of usage and bill at rate of approx $.22/GB.

Since when do big corporations care about being fair to their customers? If they did it that way they'd make less money.

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

FFH5

Premium Member

Re: Bad math?

said by 88615298:

Since when do big corporations care about being fair to their customers? If they did it that way they'd make less money.

It is good PR for getting more customers. Obviously, at these 2 major Canadian companies, the Marketing Dept doesn't have as much juice with the CEO as do the bean counters. That is NOT true at all companies.

In any case, if the CEO had listened to Marketing types, profits would be as high with the $.22/GB billing method as the one they chose. These companies have very poor top mgt.
88615298 (banned)
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness

88615298 (banned)

Member

Re: Bad math?

said by FFH5:

said by 88615298:

Since when do big corporations care about being fair to their customers? If they did it that way they'd make less money.

It is good PR for getting more customers.

In many areas in Canada and the US there is only ONE isp. So they do not need to worry about getting or keeping customers. If you want internet you have ONE choice. Internet is getting to be like electricity and water. People don't want to be without it. It's not like HBO where you can just dump it and it doesn't matter much. If I had to choose between TV and internet I'd choose internet.
talz13
join:2006-03-15
Avon, OH

talz13 to FFH5

Member

to FFH5
I bet they did some study like AT&T that found most of their customers would go over the cap by 60GB or less, so they wanted to front-load their profits on the wider base of users.

tshirt
Premium Member
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA

tshirt to FFH5

Premium Member

to FFH5
I think making the low end of the overage the most expensive, is intended to clearly seperate the "I'll never use more than 25GB" people from the "I'll use as much as I can/can afford" group.

It should demonstrate fairly quickly the depth of demand for tiers above the basic 25 GB, AND if 0nce past the expensive 55GB level do users tend to TRY to download willy nilly just to use up the other 245GB "they paid for" or do they end up just downloading what they need somewhat independant of pricing.
The cost difference to the ISP between building/upgrading a plant that can support 25GB/user/month vs one that has more than 10 times the capacity/user/per month is substanial, and I would think that PROVING consistant/sustained/profitable demand for that level service would be needed BEFORE they commit to the investment is a nessesity given the current economic state AND having watched verizons FIOS experiment, the end result of which is still unknown.

dillyhammer
START me up
Premium Member
join:2010-01-09
Scarborough, ON

dillyhammer to FFH5

Premium Member

to FFH5
said by FFH5:

It would be fairer to prorate that $60 over the extra 275 GB of usage and bill at rate of approx $.22/GB.

That's still 10X more than the actual cost. The person who uses 35G more than allowed gets billed the same as someone who uses 300G more than allowed. The person using 35G more is motivated to use the rest of the 275G, adding to the so-called "congestion" that would otherwise not have occurred.

Nice mess.

Though I suppose using the term "fairer" doesn't necessarily imply fairness.

MIke

andyb
Premium Member
join:2003-05-29
SW Ontario

andyb

Premium Member

Why 25GB

Not sure why Primus put that in the letter as it is not even approved at the CRTC yet and may not be.

AkFubar
Admittedly, A Teksavvy Fan
join:2005-02-28
Toronto CAN.

AkFubar

Member

Re: Why 25GB

hmmm, it almost seems like Primus is trying to get a jump on picking their customers' pockets early. Ya think?
koreyb
Open the Canadian Market NOW
join:2005-01-08
Etobicoke, ON

koreyb

Member

Re: Why 25GB

said by AkFubar:

hmmm, it almost seems like Primus is trying to get a jump on picking their customers' pockets early. Ya think?

IT's likely to get the customer base mad enough to call their MP's and get something done about it...

I personally am angry at the likes of some wholesalers who are going to sit back until less than 30 days notice to suprise their customers with huge overages and costs.. not alll non-geeks get this or understand it..

Primus is smart in a way to notify their customers of what is possibly going to be the case to give them time to react.

Bell will get everything they want... you know that.
dbarron
join:2000-01-03
Sudbury, ON

dbarron to AkFubar

Member

to AkFubar
The extra charge is passed to Bel. Primus doesn't get it.
bt
join:2009-02-26
canada

bt

Member

Re: Why 25GB

said by dbarron:

The extra charge is passed to Bel. Primus doesn't get it.

False.

Primus has their own equipment in some locations, and will not have to pay one cent of the extra fees to Bell for customers on that equipment.

For customers that are not on Primus equipment, Bell will get the money for the extra charges - after they start charging the wholesale ISP for it. Right now, that is March 1st at the absolute earliest. Primus will get to pocket that first month's worth of fees (more if Bell's start date gets pushed back).
88615298 (banned)
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness

88615298 (banned)

Member

Canada to become 3rd world country

Any country that has stupid ideas like this will become 3rd world country within a couple of generations. Within 50 years countries with limited internet access will be looked upon like how we see countries where a sizable part of the population lacks running water, electricity and paved roads.
progrocktv3
join:2009-04-27

progrocktv3

Member

Re: Canada to become 3rd world country

Actually some third world countries have BETTER internet service!
chgo_man99
join:2010-01-01
Sunnyvale, CA

chgo_man99 to 88615298

Member

to 88615298
Poland's telecom regulator forced TP.SA (nations largest teleco) to lease 50% of its bandwith to competition for a reasonable access fees. And they have no UBB. It used to be the country that had the most expensive internet in Europe, even more expensive than Romania.

trainwreck6
join:2010-09-21
off track

trainwreck6 to 88615298

Member

to 88615298
said by 88615298:

Any country that has stupid ideas like this will become 3rd world country within a couple of generations. Within 50 years countries with limited internet access will be looked upon like how we see countries where a sizable part of the population lacks running water, electricity and paved roads.

Perhaps you agree that the Internet should be a basic Utility, just like water, gas and electric and phone. Only then will it hope to get structured so that costs and operating profits are reasonable for everyone.
Lazlow
join:2006-08-07
Saint Louis, MO

Lazlow

Member

Interesting

"Additional Usage Plans can be purchased starting at $5/month for an additional 40GB."

If my math is correct that would be $0.13/GB. Thinking long term one might be better off buying the Additonal Usage Plans thatn to risk $1.10/GB.
88615298 (banned)
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness

88615298 (banned)

Member

Re: Interesting

said by Lazlow:

"Additional Usage Plans can be purchased starting at $5/month for an additional 40GB."

If my math is correct that would be $0.13/GB. Thinking long term one might be better off buying the Additonal Usage Plans thatn to risk $1.10/GB.

funny how they can sell you additional bandwidth at 13 cents per GB but going over somehow costs them $1.10 per GB. And you now at 13 cents per GB they are making a profit.
yabos
join:2003-02-16
London, ON

yabos to Lazlow

Member

to Lazlow
It's still pretty dumb. Who wants to pre-pay for a virtual product you might not use? It's not like the 40GB will carry over to the next month.
Lazlow
join:2006-08-07
Saint Louis, MO

Lazlow

Member

Re: Interesting

it is a risk vs reward thing. If one runs over by 5GB without the plan it would cost you the same as 40GB with the plan. Another way to look at it as you pay $5 with the plan vs $44 without it, for the 40GB.

ctceo
Premium Member
join:2001-04-26
South Bend, IN

1 edit

ctceo

Premium Member

New Age

So is everyone ready for the new age of hacked/spoofed wardriven detected WiFi pirated console anti-copy-protected gaming PC's and Consoles?
dbarron
join:2000-01-03
Sudbury, ON

dbarron

Member

Canada's telecom oligarchy has got to be broken up

Welcome to Canada. Corrupt CRTC officials give wallet-raping powers to their telecom oligarch buddies and the elected representatives couldn't care less because the telecom oligarch lobbyists give good head.

Filberto
@shawcable.net

Filberto

Anon

Re: Canada's telecom oligarchy has got to be broken up

These ISPs get away with murder!

- They sell packages "Up to 15mbps" - Then when I call to complain that I never EVER see 15mbps, they can still say: "We said UP TO 15mbps!" Meanwhile the average is around 7mbps. What other industry can get away with that false advertising?

- They can sell a package of internet bandwidth (ie: Shaw) $50 for 250gb. Then if you only use 150gb, you don't get to carry forward the remaining balance to the next month. Yet, if you go over, you have to pay a fortune!

- Shaw is unable to compete with Netflix, so they decided to start charging for overages, at the same time they lowered our caps, and NOT announce it publicly - only telling customers when they call to complain about their massive internet bill. Shaw is doing a GREAT job of keeping this quiet.

My internet bill will now DOUBLE. The CRTC is obviously either paid-off, or incredibly naive, to believe Shaw's nonsense about congestion, etc. This is a money grab, and a way to avoid allowing their competition into Canada by making it cost prohibitive to use Netflix, etc.

This is a massive conflict of interest - Shaw is my ISP, and also my TV Provider. If they don't want me to use Netflix, they jack-up the prices for their internet bandwidth, and then I have no choice but to use Shaw's overpriced, commercial-laden TV packages.

This is no different than a Telco DSL provider that blocks the ability to use Skype over their DSL, because it competes with their telephone subscription packages. Absolutely ludicrous!

That is ANTI-COMPETITIVE. And the CRTC is allowing it. The Progressive Conservatives are allowing it. They look out for their own needs first, big business second, and Canadians a distant third.

Merin
@shawcable.net

Merin

Anon

Re: Canada's telecom oligarchy has got to be broken up

Indeed, shaw bell and robbers model of screwing customers rather then getting more customers is taking hold. great system we got up here in canada....

moomo
@rr.com

moomo

Anon

dont buy it

dont buy it and you will win

civstand
@primus.ca

civstand

Anon

Boycott Bell Canada

Usage based billing is about Bell Canada gouging Canadians and using monopoly powers in one area to squeeze its competitors in another.

Please join the Boycott Bell Canada campaign by visiting:

»www.boycottowl.com/Bell+ ··· nada/285