Users Getting Around AT&T's Crippled Androids Can't stop the open evolution from rolling on... We've noted that AT&T has been crippling many Android devices in their lineup, not only layering them with annoying, unremovable bloatware, but making Yahoo the default search engine while making it impossible to install any applications not found in the Android Marketplace. Of course AT&T's fighting an uphill battle in their effort to retain control, and these kinds of attempts aren't going to work out in the long run on largely open platforms. Exhibit A: the free and open source " Sideload Wonder Machine" developed by the folks at Android Central, which allows users of crippled AT&T Android phones to install whatever applications they'd like. AT&T's essentially trying to swim upstream; the only question is how long it's going to take them to realize it.
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  Romney2012Defeat Obama 2012-Chg we can believe inPremium
join:2002-03-03
USA
kudos:4 |  Thoughts on AT&T Android actions
Bloatware is a PITA and should be easy to uninstall. That it isn't is a big marketing mistake by AT&T.
Preventing installation of apps not from a monitored Android marketplace is a good security practice for most users. More adventuresome users will jailbreak the phone anyway and must suffer loss of warranty as the cost of their decision.
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Are you happy with your rep in Washington, DC? | |
|  |  cdruGo ColtsPremium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:5
 ·Frontier FiOS
| Re: Thoughts on AT&T Android actions said by Romney2012:Why should Google always be the default? Cause it's their OS? Choice is always good, but if the most popular (and at least as good if not better then Yahoo) search engine on the internet puts out a very popular phone OS for free, maybe they can get a bone tossed their direction by default.
Preventing installation of apps not from a monitored Android marketplace is a good security practice for most users. Their is already an option to enable/disable installing non-market applications disabled by default. If you are going to argue that having the option of a a non-Google search engine is good, then why isn't a non-Google market too?
More adventuresome users will jailbreak the phone anyway and must suffer loss of warranty as the cost of their decision. Why should jailbreaking it automatically void your warranty? If just installing an application (and not going through the process of flashing it) is enough to make it completely unusable without factory service, then I would say the OS's security is flawed. | |
| | | openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
kudos:2 | Re: Thoughts on AT&T Android actions said by cdru:Why should jailbreaking it automatically void your warranty? If just installing an application (and not going through the process of flashing it) is enough to make it completely unusable without factory service, then I would say the OS's security is flawed. How about rooting the device and removing a file necessary for operation? I've been reading warnings about what not to remove (to include VZ software) with my rooted DX. So if I turn my DX into a paperweight because I did an end round around on security policies in place to prevent me from doing something stupid, my warranty should still be intact? I disagree. Now if my stock DX allowed me to delete a necessary file bricking my phone, then I agree. | |
| | | | cdruGo ColtsPremium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:5 Reviews:
·Frontier FiOS
| Re: Thoughts on AT&T Android actions said by openbox9:How about rooting the device and removing a file necessary for operation? I've been reading warnings about what not to remove (to include VZ software) with my rooted DX. So if I turn my DX into a paperweight because I did an end round around on security policies in place to prevent me from doing something stupid, my warranty should still be intact? I disagree. Now if my stock DX allowed me to delete a necessary file bricking my phone, then I agree. If deleting the one file prevents the phone from booting in a recovery mode to restore a factory load, or connecting to a computer to recover, then the device is designed poorly. | |
| | | | | openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
kudos:2 | Re: Thoughts on AT&T Android actions Ok, but that's not the point. The point is that if you actively circumvent security measures and you brick your device, you should be liable. | |
| | | | | | cdruGo ColtsPremium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:5 Reviews:
·Frontier FiOS
| Re: Thoughts on AT&T Android actions said by openbox9:Ok, but that's not the point. The point is that if you actively circumvent security measures and you brick your device, you should be liable. Does HP or Dell void your warranty if you get a virus on your computer? No. They may not help you remove just the virus leaving the rest of the system. They may require you to reload the system but you still have a warranty.
If you flash your phone with an unsupported or experimental firmware, then I agree that the manufacturer shouldn't support it. But I disagree that merely installing a non-market application should void your warranty/support for the device. | |
| | | | | | | openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
kudos:2 | Re: Thoughts on AT&T Android actions There's a difference between obtaining a virus and actively circumventing measures put in place to ensure that you do break your device. BTW, I'm not suggesting that installing a non-market application should void your warranty. I'm suggesting that if you actively alter the configuration of your device outside of the intended operating configuration (i.e. root), then you are liable for your actions, not the manufacturer. | |
| | | | | | | | cdruGo ColtsPremium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:5 Reviews:
·Frontier FiOS
1 edit | Re: Thoughts on AT&T Android actions said by openbox9:I'm suggesting that if you actively alter the configuration of your device outside of the intended operating configuration (i.e. root), then you are liable for your actions, not the manufacturer. You don't need root to install non-market apps. On regular Android phones, it's under Setings->Applications. Check or uncheck the box for "Unknown Sources - Allow installation of non-Market applications". That is all that is required to allow non-Market app installation. It's this option that AT&T blocks. Other carriers and phones haven't had a rash of customer support issues with the option enabled.
It's possible that some apps may want and/or require root access to perform some advanced functionality. There are some market apps that require root access (e.g. Screenshot) too so it's not entirely about safety. It's also (and more likely mainly) about controlling features carriers want to charge for (e.g. tethering) | |
| | | | | | | | | openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
kudos:2 | Re: Thoughts on AT&T Android actions I understand sideloading. I've done it a couple of times with my DX. The fact that AT&T and HTC disallow sideloading is the cause of your concern. The fact remains that if you're altering configuration from the default, you're liable for your actions. If you don't brick it, enjoy. If you do, well, you were warned. | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Thoughts on AT&T Android actions sigh loading apps from not from the market place doesn't alter the configuration.
It's not different than installing non market app on a blackberry.
Some companies like Sirius radio app are not available in the android market. | |
| | | | | | | | | | openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
kudos:2 | Re: Thoughts on AT&T Android actions Of course it doesn't, but rooting your Android device does, which is ultimately what I presume cdru  is getting at. | |
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| | | | | | | |  rawwhidePremium
join:2000-09-03
The Sticks
 ·AT&T DSL Service
| said by cdru: It's also (and more likely mainly) about controlling features carriers want to charge for (e.g. tethering) Voice/video such as SKype apps also comes to mind when talking about features that are possible but the carriers want restricted. They want there cake and eat it too.
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To talk much and arrive nowhere is the same as climbing a tree to catch a fish. | |
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| | | | | | | | | The Android OS is Open! There is no clear intended operating configuration. Its a phone, Its a pocket PC and as such it should fall in line with something like a windows laptop. Could you imagine buying a laptop and Best buy saying you cant install anything outside of this list of Apps? That would be rediculous and you wouldnt stand for it. | |
| | | | | | | | | openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
kudos:2 | Re: Thoughts on AT&T Android actions You're right, I wouldn't buy it, just as I wouldn't buy an overly restrictive device from AT&T. To those that feel the same way, I recommend you exercise your choice and not buy the device either  | |
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| | | | | So should your Dell or HP or any other computer systems warranty become void because you corrupt the OS?
The answer to that is NO, because an OS is easily restored with absolutely no side effects to the underlying hardware and it is the hardware they are really warranting to begin with. | |
| | | | | openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
kudos:2 | Re: Thoughts on AT&T Android actions What about if I hack the BIOS because I want to push the limits? | |
| | | | | | | | Re: Thoughts on AT&T Android actions So hack the BIOS, again that is something that is easily fixed in most cases.
The biggest issues with these providers is that they want to limit you when they should not be limiting you. They will spend more time and money trying to restrict people that won't be restricted regardless of that they do. The best thing they could do is make "hacks" easy to do and easy to recover from because those that want it are going to do it anyway.
It is just like trying to lock down movies and music. Most people don't care and wont ever deal with it. The other people will get around it any way so why devote money and resources to it when you can't win the battle (EVER!). | |
| | | | | | | openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
kudos:2 | Re: Thoughts on AT&T Android actions And my only point is that if you want to hack around, then you are responsible for your actions. If a device is designed to minimize graceful recoveries (right, wrong, or intentionally) and you go beyond the limits and generate a paperweight, and you were made aware of the limitations and the warranty of the device, it's your fault. There are a few devices available that give you exactly what you want. It might be in your interest to purchase one of those devices. | |
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| | |  BoteMan
join:2002-11-11
Fort Lauderdale, FL | Reading some/many of the comments over at Phandroid.com on an article listing the steps to root a particular phone = scary. Very scary.
Some people simply should not be messing around under the hood of an Android phone. | |
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|  Homer JMmmm, Free Goo
join:2000-10-05
Springfield | The user should not have to jailbreak their phone to be able to install whatever software they choose. I am sure it will void the warranty which is not right. It's an open system and should be left that way.
They may say it is about security, but it is about controlling the user experience. They need to stay out of it, part of the reason I would never own a phone made by Apple. I can choose the software I want to install I don't need Steve Jobs to give it his approval. | |
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| | FYI FYI, I have the Samsung Captivate, and Google is the default search engine. In fact, their search widget is right on the default home screen. Yahoo, OTOH, is almost nowhere to be found. No search, no mail app, no IM. The only place you will find it is on the browser's default start page, and you can easily change that if you like.
Yes, the AT&T apps are there, and they added shortcuts to some of them on the home screens, but you can trash those.
As for disabling sideloading, yes, they did that, and I don't approve of it, but it's easy enough to work around if you want to.
Just my opinion, but the Captivate is a winner. If you want an Android phone from AT&T, it's a great choice.
Oh, and if you have one, QuickOffice is a free download from the Market, at least for now. | |
|  NOCManMacChatterPremium
join:2004-09-30
Colorado Springs, CO
1 edit | It wont last, Android is likely doomed Several people can attest to this, if you took an iOS App, and compared it to the same Android app, you find the build quality of the Android App lacking in many ways. In a sense it's probably more of an issue that the app developers already were using C and Objective C is easy, but it's surprising that web companies have better iOS apps, facebook and mint come to mind, than Android Apps. Usually their programmers are more about Java type programming languages.
I expect Android will take a back seat once the iPhone hits other US carriers, what's the uptake of Android in non US markets where the iPhone is multicarrier? | |
| |  morboComplete Your Transaction
join:2002-01-22
00000
1 edit | Re: It wont last, Android is likely doomed Hmmm. Apple fanboy predicting the demise of their fiercest competitor? Not very interesting.
Look at the trends. Blackberry is going to start bleeding market share over the next few years unless OS6 is truly revolutionary. iPhone has a single re-fresh a year while the number of Android phones is growing exponentially. iPhone market share will start to decrease as well but not as steep as BB and most likely after BB. | |
| | | | | Re: It wont last, Android is likely doomed It's also not very interesting when you discount someone's argument as coming from a "fanboy".
His point about using Objective-C is salient; that code is always going to run quicker with more efficiency than Java code. Efficiency equals better energy margins.
Also a strength of the iPhone is the fact that its users become very vested in the platform through the purchase of their apps. Switching to something else requires abandoning everything the user bought from iTunes.
However, Android's strength is that it will be the commodity phone OS. By sheer numbers, it'll be the leader. And as long as the OS is kept from being version fragmented, it should be easy for developers to write and maintain applications that work on the spectrum of Android devices.
There is no reason that manufacturers won't be able to output reasonably priced sub $200 smartphones. That's not Apple's market, and it never will be. That doesn't mean there isn't a lot of money to be made catering to that market as well as trying to eat some of Apple's high-end lunch too. | |
| | | | morboComplete Your Transaction
join:2002-01-22
00000 | Re: It wont last, Android is likely doomed Agreed, cheap shot by me.
I think the technical argument is a nice sidenote but pointless when it comes to NOCMan's prediction that Android is doomed. Say that the efficiency argument is something we agree upon. We all know that it's not about the "best" product or standard that decides the direction of the crowd and the success of a product (qwerty vs dvorak, vhs vs betamax, bluray vs hddvd).
Apple is staged to repeat what happened with the desktop computer wars. They will remain relevant but become more of a niche option. | |
| | | | | | I have to agree about users amassing a large number of apps that they don't want to let go of. I just encountered that the other day while talking to a friend. I don't think he's too crazy about the new iPhone, but he has so many apps that he doesn't want to lose them if he switches.
The thing is, people will eventually switch if they become discontented enough with the iPhone or if another platform looks inviting enough. In fact, someone my wife works with has been an iPhone user but doesn't like the new version. He heard that I got a Captivate and now wants to know more about it. Once those people leave, Apple is going to have a hard time winning them back. | |
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| | NOCManMacChatterPremium
join:2004-09-30
Colorado Springs, CO | Not an Apple fanboy trust me on that one, however I have both a iPhone and a Droid, and use both on a daily basis, I believe the phone with the best consistent apps will eventually win out over other phones. At this stage in the game iOS apps are winning hands down. iOS dev's only have to develop for 3 different hardware platforms, iPod Touch, iPad, and iPhone, while an Android dev has to develop for more than a dozen hardware platforms of varying performance, different hardware acceleration models etc, it has a clear implication for Games, but also for general app performance. Upgrades can break apps on one droid but they work fine on another. People want consistency, I was thrilled to get an android but after using it for a few months it has more annoyances than uses.
I wish they had the swype app for iOS though it's probably better than anything else I've sued between a blackberry, Droid and iOS keyboards. | |
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| | | While the iPhone is the king of apps at the moment, look at the head start it has over Android. Look back a year. Where was Android then? The G1 was about it. This is an OS that has exploded on the scene very quickly.
And one of the big advantages it has over, say, the iPhone is that just about every carrier out there has at least one device running it. So developers get a huge amount of exposure with their apps, whereas their exposure is more limited with the iPhone. That fact will continue to drive app development.
If you look at it, Android and the iPhone share a lot of similarities with the IBM PC and the Mac. IBM was very liberal about releasing the specs to its hardware to everyone, so you had tons of manufacturers building hardware and writing software for it. Likewise, Google has made Android open source, allowing any company to use it. With the Mac, Apple kept both the hardware and OS development very tightly controlled, just like they're doing with the iPhone in terms of who can publish apps and which carriers can sell it. That strategy was a mistake with the Mac, and it will be a mistake with the iPhone. The iPhone got a lot of market share because Apple was fortunate enough to be at the right place at the right time in terms of design and UI. They had an innovative product, but other companies are catching up to them very fast. I wouldn't be too smug if I were them. They have lots of market share now, but that can slip away. Just ask Palm about that. Oh wait, you can't, since it isn't even a company anymore. | |
| | bt
join:2009-02-26
canada
kudos:1 Reviews:
·Start Communicat..
| said by NOCMan:what's the uptake of Android in non US markets where the iPhone is multicarrier? For the UK: Android went from 1.6% to 6.7% market share in 3 weeks (March 29-April 18). Weekly sales share went from 3% to 12% of all phones in the same time period. So I'd say uptake is pretty good when the iPhone is available from multiple carriers.
»www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/and···january/
I tried to find numbers for Canada (as it should be more similar to the US phone ecosystem than the UK is), but I couldn't find anything for actual ownership (other than total market share for all smartphones combined). | |
| | | | What the hell are you talking about? I had an iPhone for 15 months and left it for the Evo when it came out. Many of the Apps I've used on the iPhone are available for Android and a few just became available in the past few weeks. I've noticed absolutely no difference in 'build quality' between the two platforms.
- Fox News
- Fox Business
- Sirius XM Online
- IMDB
- TV.com
- ESPN ScoreCenter
- The Weather Channel
- Fandango
- Google Earth
- Bank Of America
- Shazam Encore
- eBay
- Amazon
- Zillow
- Yellow Pages
- Speedtest.net
- Urbanspoon
These are just some of the apps I can remember off the top of my head that I've used on both platforms and the Android apps work just as good if not better (due to Sprints better network) then the iPhone app.
Only issues I have is you cannot swipe to change pages in ESPN ScoreCenter on Android and the Speedtest app does not remember your chosen server , but the iPhone app had that same problem when it first came out. And if you want to go so far as App Store v Market, the only thing I'd like to see if the option to download all updates at once.
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|
Asmodeus
join:2004-05-26
Spring Valley, CA | The bottom line is... that all of these providers should be nothing more than dumb pipe providers instead of content distributors. They should have no place on what to put on the phones that we as consumers buy and frankly, I'm tired of mobile phone oem's catering to these demands. I'd love to see a company like HTC build a gsm/cdma world phone that will let you put anything you want on it and use it on any network you like. That's the way it should be. | |
| | | Why? Why would you get an Android phone on AT&T? The only reason anyone puts up with AT&T is for the iPhone.
And so much for Android being "Open". It's only "Open" to the carrier.
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less talk, more music | |
| | | | Re: Why? Generalize much?
I have AT&T, and I don't own an iPhone. In this part of the country, they're one of the strongest carriers in terms of coverage, and that's why I use them. YMMV, of course, but don't assume that, just because they suck where you live, that they suck everywhere.
As for Android being open, like any piece of software, it is open to anyone who wants to develop it. If you want to build a device and customize Android for it, you can do that right now. Google made Android open source for developers, just like other OSS projects. What the developers do with it is their business. | |
| | BoteMan
join:2002-11-11
Fort Lauderdale, FL Reviews:
·AT&T Southeast
| According to the Yankee Group survey [1] 73% of iPhone users polled are satisfied with AT&T. This might be attributable to the love of their iPhone rubbing off on the carrier.
My friend who is a performance engineer for them is convinced that the 800MHz carrier will outperform the PCS carrier in a particular area simply by the laws of physics. I don't think it's that cut and dried, but it's a good first approximation. Around these parts AT&T has both 800MHz licenses and I currently have a 3G Tilt phone on their network. It works to my satisfaction. Whether or not their air technology or their infrastructure is worth a crap is a separate question, however.
I'd love to get an Android phone, want a good carrier, hate AT&T's crippled Android offerings, like what Sprint has to offer with their PCS phones. What to do???
[1] »news.cnet.com/8301-17852_3-20011576-71.html | |
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| | Interesting. Had I heard about this, my current phone might have been an Android.
It may yet. | |
| | | AT&T Knows It AT&T realizes that they're on the way to their worst-nightmare; being a dumb pipe. But that doesn't mean they won't do everything they can to slow the descent.
All that really needs to happen for it to be a complete reality is for consumers to stop their addiction to subsidized handset and for manufacturers to sell their devices on the open market instead of colluding with carriers. | |
| |  intellerSociopaths always win.
join:2003-12-08
Tulsa, OK | Re: AT&T Knows It Att will continue putting crapware on their phones until the person or group within ATT who thinks their crapware provides value die in a fiery plane crash. | |
| | | | | Re: AT&T Knows It said by inteller:Att will continue putting crapware on their phones until the person or group within ATT who thinks their crapware provides value die in a fiery plane crash. And then they'll be replaced by another group, with the only difference being the particular crapware apps they favor.
These things are insidious because, although a very small percentage of wireless users actually use them, installing them costs practically nothing per unit, and enough people do use them to make them profitable. Kind of like the economic model used by spammers: It doesn't matter how many people you annoy so long as enough of them bite to make the whole venture profitable. | |
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patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1 | AV software Wait until Android phones come with free anti-virus software from your carrier that reinstalls any bloatware you delete or any settings you change after rooting. | |
| | | Sideloading not completely disabled AT&T didn't completely remove the ability to sideload applications, they just made it difficult for the average user. Using the Sideload Wonder Machine from Android Central doesn't do anything special to your phone. Instead it uses tools from the Android SDK to install the apps on your phone. You can do this yourself without the Sideload program, it's just more difficult to set up the SDK than it is to download one program and use it to install apps to your phone.
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Ali | |
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