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story category Utah Wants Wholesome Seal Of Approval For ISPs
Who'll then be tasked with policing, tracking and punishing users...
11:10AM Wednesday Feb 27 2008 by Karl Bode
tags: legal · business · privacy · content · networking · Oddities
Some time ago, Utah lawmakers decided they'd like to divide the Internet into an "adult content channel" and a "family content channel." The proposed system would do this via ports: boobies and people who use the word "shit" would be relegated to a certain port, allowing concerned parents or ISPs to filter out the Internet's naughty bits.

At the heart of the push is an anti-pornography group named CP80. CP80 is led by SCO Chairman Ralph Yarro, who was involved in SCO's Linux ownership claims and subsequent assault on IBM. CP80 argues that not only is Internet porn dangerous for individuals and families, but also financially burdensome to businesses.

Click for full size
The group has attempted to pass a string of unsuccessful bills and resolutions, including the "ports for porn" effort, as well as a bill aimed at holding Wi-Fi hotspot owners legally liable for transmitted material. The latest Utah effort is HB407, a bill that would require ISPs to be given a wholesome seal of approval:
Utah Internet service providers could earn a state-approved "G-rating" for filtering content and insuring that users could not access pornography under provisions in a bill heard by a House committee on Monday. HB407, sponsored by Rep. Michael Morley, R-Spanish Fork, would require the Utah Division of Consumer Protection to create a designation for providers who prevent access to "prohibited" material.
The bill would require the State Attorney general to create this "seal of approval" for ISPs willing to block content deemed controversial (who decides this isn't made clear), and then fine these ISPs or users $10,000 per violation. The bill also requires ISPs to prohibit users from "publishing any prohibited communication," track user violations by IP address, and filter any content deemed offensive "within a reasonable time."

Obviously ISPs aren't too keen on the idea, nor are content providers Google and Yahoo, who are actively fighting the effort in the State.

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Forums » Utah Wants Wholesome Seal Of Approval For ISPs
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moonpuppy

join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD

Won't happen

Sorry, but this wouldn't survive very long. What's next, censoring HBO, Showtime and Cinemax?

Camelot One
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join:2001-11-21
Austin, TX
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Re: Won't happen

I have been sitting here trying to come up with some sort of comment worthy of the group. But all that comes to mind is.....
"Hahahahahahahahaha.......dumbasses."
--
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Diet!

I hate the way Diet tastes! Good old plain Crack Soda for me please

RadioDoc
Sortofadog
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join:2000-05-11
Chicago, IL
·AT&T Midwest

Unconstitutional?

Sounds like an unconstitutional interference in interstate commerce. They might not like Internet porn, but it is legal, and there are some non-porn sites (like agnostic or atheist sites) which I am sure some in Utah would consider "inappropriate" for a G rating.
--
Toolmaster of La Grange.
bogey780

join:2004-03-19
Covington, LA

Re: Unconstitutional?

Exactly. This violates the interstate commerce clause not to mention it asks for a Herculean effort from the ISPs that more than likely would fail in all regards.

swhx7
Premium
join:2006-07-23
Elbonia
No, it's voluntary. ISPs that didn't want to participate could continue being regular, non-censored ISPs.

The only way there would be a problem would be if there was pressure to join the program or a lack of uncensored ISPs.

RadioDoc
Sortofadog
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
Chicago, IL

Re: Unconstitutional?

A lot of things governments impose on private enterprise is "voluntary" but the consequences of not doing them can be severe.

If this law passes, I wonder how Utopia would be treated.
--
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TK Junk Mail
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said by RadioDoc See Profile :

Sounds like an unconstitutional interference in interstate commerce. They might not like Internet porn, but it is legal, and there are some non-porn sites (like agnostic or atheist sites) which I am sure some in Utah would consider "inappropriate" for a G rating.
And besides.

It is already built-in as an option for IE7 browser.

IE7 content blocking options


There are already dozens of standalone products already available to block sites from children.

Standalone products like NetNanny


And even DNS services that block porn sites like the one opendns.com runs.

Open DNS DNS blockinng


And these products will react faster to changes than anything an ISP will do
. And the parents can use a combination of the above tools to make it harder for kids to bypass all the filters. And you can also put filters in to the wireless routers as well to block keywords and domain names.
--
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Kearnstd
Elf Wizard

join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ

not to mention most ISP customers are on big national companies like Comcast and Telco. i dont think Utah is going pressure the execs at Comcast Tower in philly to sign onto censoring the customers in one state to look good.
--
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Dydion

join:2001-03-07
Baton Rouge, LA

Politicians

...are idiots. They are not tech-savvy at all. Back room blow jobs is all they really know about.
openbox9

join:2004-01-26
Navarre, FL
·Mediacom

Re: Politicians

said by Dydion See Profile :

Back room blow jobs is all they really know about.
Apparently not in Utah since I'm sure that would violate their concept of decency.
SilverSurfer

join:2007-08-19

Re: Politicians

said by openbox9 See Profile :

said by Dydion See Profile :

Back room blow jobs is all they really know about.
Apparently not in Utah since I'm sure that would violate their concept of decency.
Please - those who scream the loudest and are the most obnoxious about pornography are usually the same people with butt plugs, leather, latex, whips/chains and 14 inch black dildoes hanging in their closets. A BJ is quite tame compared to the closeted freaks/perverts whining about "decency" and "family values."

Noah Vail
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Re: Politicians

said by SilverSurfer See Profile :

said by openbox9 See Profile :

said by Dydion See Profile :

Back room blow jobs is all they really know about.
Apparently not in Utah since I'm sure that would violate their concept of decency.
Please - those who scream the loudest and are the most obnoxious about pornography are usually the same people with butt plugs, leather, latex, whips/chains and 14 inch black dildoes hanging in their closets. A BJ is quite tame compared to the closeted freaks/perverts whining about "decency" and "family values."
And what's more, those who accuse others falsely
of ludicrously inappropriate behavior without cause,
based on nothing more
than the white noise rantings
of a secular progressive society
are themselves secret bestial pedophiles
preying upon innocent baby animals
for their own sexual mispleasures.

Perhaps you could parrot a few less tired clichés next time?

NV
TheWickerMan

join:2002-04-09
Enola, PA

said by openbox9 See Profile :

said by Dydion See Profile :

Back room blow jobs is all they really know about.
Apparently not in Utah since I'm sure that would violate their concept of decency.
What does any politician know about decency?
bgraham

join:2001-03-15
Smithtown, NY
·Verizon FIOS
·Verizon VoiceWing


edit:
February 27th, @10:31AM

If Utah had it's own way

you could have three fourteen year old wives, but they don't want raunchy internet.

Really upstanding moral values.

Edit: Who would really want more than one wife...

Transmaster
Onward Through The Fog

join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY

Re: If Utah had it's own way

said by bgraham See Profile :

you could have three fourteen year old wives, but they don't want raunchy internet.
Really upstanding moral values.
Edit: Who would really want more than one wife...

The LDS doesn't go for multiple wife's thing any more but there are so called orthodox Mormons who do. Why? for the welfare payments. plural marriage's are not recognized so all of these "wife's" count as single parents and they get all kinds of goverment pay outs to take care of them and their children. Get 5 or 6 "wife's and their kids" together and the goverment money adds up to a substantial tax free income.
--
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sporkme
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Re: If Utah had it's own way

said by Transmaster See Profile :

plural marriage's are not recognized so all of these "wife's" count as single parents and they get all kinds of goverment pay outs to take care of them and their children. Get 5 or 6 "wife's and their kids" together and the goverment money adds up to a substantial tax free income.
Google "Bleeding the beast". The welfare scam is a holy battle against the godless government.

Noah Vail
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Re: If Utah had it's own way

Despite the paranoid rhetoric, Utah is pretty much a leave 'em alone state. Their lack of aggressive enforcement against the polygamist jackasses has allowed the problem to fester. It gives the appearance of being condoned.

Their lack of action on polygamy has nothing to do with their religion, except maybe for an uniquely strong respect for other faiths and for free agency. However, they consistently leave common sense out of equation, and so the disease thrives. Only in that way are they part of the problem.

They're not as criminally stupid as the
"We don't have to fight evil, 'cause it's all in God's hands." crowd,
but it's the same stupidity.

If evil flourishes because you didn't do what you could to stop it, then it's your fault and your evil.

NV
--
Abortion: A Republican Plot to Thin the Liberal Herd.
old_wiz_60

join:2005-06-03
Bedford, MA
·Verizon FIOS

Just try to define it

Just try to come up with a definition of porn. Let's see, they'd have to block uTube, Facebook, Flickr, and perhaps imdb.com. Don't forget P2P and Usenet.What about planned parenthood, breast health, WebMD? There is no such thing as general definition of it. It is a total waste of time and money.

KrK
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Re: Just try to define it

said by old_wiz_60 See Profile :

Just try to come up with a definition of porn. Let's see, they'd have to block uTube, Facebook, Flickr, and perhaps imdb.com. Don't forget P2P and Usenet.What about planned parenthood, breast health, WebMD? There is no such thing as general definition of it. It is a total waste of time and money.
Plus every time they fouled up and censored something legit they'd face lawsuits, and everytime they fouled up and failed to censor something someone took offense at they'd get fined $10k. Ya, great law.

Plus there's matters of jurisdiction.... I don't see how this could work out. Thank goodness.
--
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swhx7
Premium
join:2006-07-23
Elbonia
·RoadRunner Cable

Not only would it be based on some vague and variable definition of "pornography" - the bill also refers to other disapproved content, using a term like "objectionable" (I don't recall the exact words). All subject to interpretation, and it could be construed to include almost anything.

johnwayne

join:2001-03-09
Bountiful, UT

Weirdoes

This is another way to take the responsibility away from parents and give them a reason not to teach their kids. I wish GOVERNMENT would pull their heads out and wake up. We don't need people to tell us what to do and what we should or should not view. It's our responsibility to take care of ourselves. If we want to destroy our lives with our actions its our decision not somebody else's.

fireflier
Coffee. . .Need Coffee
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join:2001-05-25
Limbo
·RoadRunner Cable

But what about. . .

the children.

That phrase seems to be curiously missing in the overview of the article. I can't believe that hasn't been tossed out there yet.

Perhaps CP80 should consider gathering their supporters and moving out into the Utah wildernesss to live peacefully instead of trying to perpetually impose their values on others.
--
Wishes: When you wish upon a falling star, your dreams can come true. Unless it's really a meteorite hurtling to the Earth which will destroy all life. Then you're pretty much hosed no matter what you wish for. Unless it's death by meteor. --despair.com

hopeflicker
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edit:
February 27th, @10:54AM

Re: But what about. . .


Looks like they have it covered
said by fireflier See Profile :

the children.

This doesn't surprise me coming from this wacked out religious state.
--
Man created God in his image : intolerant, sexist, homophobic and violent.

fireflier
Coffee. . .Need Coffee
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join:2001-05-25
Limbo

Re: But what about. . .

Dang. Well, there you go. Guess I spoke too soon. If it's a cause in the interest of "protecting" children, it can't possibly be wrong. . .
SilverSurfer

join:2007-08-19

said by fireflier See Profile :

Perhaps CP80 should consider gathering their supporters and moving out into the Utah wildernesss to live peacefully instead of trying to perpetually impose their values on others.
You have the right idea there, but let's take it a step further. How about the entire state of Utah (excluding SLC) just secedes and moves to, I dunno...Kabul, Ghazni, Kandahar, Herat, or some other theocracy over in Afghanistan. I'm sure the Mormons would get along fabulously over there.

hopeflicker
They all belong in the trash
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Re: But what about. . .

said by SilverSurfer See Profile :

said by fireflier See Profile :

Perhaps CP80 should consider gathering their supporters and moving out into the Utah wildernesss to live peacefully instead of trying to perpetually impose their values on others.
You have the right idea there, but let's take it a step further. How about the entire state of Utah (excluding SLC) just secedes and moves to, I dunno...Kabul, Ghazni, Kandahar, Herat, or some other theocracy over in Afghanistan. I'm sure the Mormons would get along fabulously over there.
How about the whole religion? People need to keep their goddamn religion out of our politics.
--
Man created God in his image : intolerant, sexist, homophobic and violent.
SilverSurfer

join:2007-08-19

Re: But what about. . .

said by hopeflicker See Profile :

How about the whole religion? People need to keep their goddamn religion out of our politics.
I agree, but that's a rather lofty goal you've got there considering the current theocracy the U.S. is currently living under with commander bunnypants and his religious reich minions.

Noah Vail
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said by hopeflicker See Profile :

How about the whole religion? People need to keep their religion out of our politics.
Can you site an example of how someone from Utah has had any impact at all on your politics?

NV
--
Abortion: A Republican Plot to Thin the Liberal Herd.

hopeflicker
They all belong in the trash
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Re: But what about. . .

You know quite well Utah's politics are heavily influenced by their religion. And yes, i said "their"
--
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Noah Vail
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Re: But what about. . .

Given the tone of your posting you see a clear danger to society or something similar.

Would you post some of the incidents that have brought you to your conclusion about Utah? Having the clear line drawn connecting the clearly despicable events and the resulting irrefutable damage would greatly help our understanding.

NV
--
Abortion: A Republican Plot to Thin the Liberal Herd.

hopeflicker
They all belong in the trash
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join:2003-04-03
Long Beach, CA

Re: But what about. . .

One incident (the obvious one) that comes to mind is that Romney easily took Utah. As we know, Romney is Mormon, and the state of Utah is predominantly Mormon. The residents of Utah voted for him because of his religious belief. People will expect him to rule by the Mormon book if elected. You and I both know that political figures will never admit their actions as a leader was influenced by their religious faith. That would just spell trouble especially coming from a non-Christian religion.
Now off on another tangent. People should NOT VOTE in an election if they think the candidate is good looking, speaks well, share the same religious beliefs, or have no interest in politics. People need to look past the facades of candidates.
--
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Noah Vail
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Re: But what about. . .

said by hopeflicker See Profile :

The residents of Utah voted for him because of his religious belief.
The people of Utah voted for him because they understood him and found him to be more in harmony with themselves than the other candidates. The same condition we see in every candidate within their stronghold.
In your mind this is a despicable event resulting in irrefutable damage?

Did your display of anger at the mixing of religion and politics take into account that the Mormon church is fully politically neutral? That they may be the only US denomination that endorses no candidate, party or political philosophy in any way, shape or form? The similar numbers of Mormon Democrats, Republicans and nonpartisans will attest to it.

said by hopeflicker See Profile :

People will expect him to rule by the Mormon book if elected.
Uneducated and duped people might expect him to rule by the Mormon book if elected. Thinking and mature people would know better.

said by hopeflicker See Profile :

You and I both know that political figures will never admit their actions as a leader was influenced by their religious faith.
A ridiculous assertion. Candidates and pols openly speak of their faith as well as the other components of their belief system.
Your last sentence spoke of an absolute, rule by the book. This one says influenced instead. Attempting to equate the two smacks of a failed attempt at parroted innuendo.

said by hopeflicker See Profile :

That would just spell trouble especially coming from a non-Christian religion.
Who cares about trouble? Everybody has a hundred issues of trouble going on simultaneously. Trouble is a daily, negligible reality.

said by hopeflicker See Profile :

Now off on another tangent. People should NOT VOTE in an election if they think the candidate is good looking, speaks well, share the same religious beliefs, or have no interest in politics. People need to look past the facades of candidates.
Don't get me started. Saturation marketing is corrosive to a society, responding to it doubly so.

NV
--
Abortion: A Republican Plot to Thin the Liberal Herd.

hopeflicker
They all belong in the trash
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Re: But what about. . .

They voted for him because of his religion. Ok, so you just reworded it. And there you go again with that "despicable" and "irrefutable damaged" speak again. Where did i say anything of that nature? or are you just assuming?

Uneducated and duped people might expect him to rule by the Mormon book if elected. Thinking and mature people would know better.
Yes, agree. However, not only Thinking and mature people would know better, but those that use LOGIC too.

A ridiculous assertion. Candidates and pols openly speak of their faith as well as the other components of their belief system.
Your last sentence spoke of an absolute, rule by the book. This one says influenced instead. Attempting to equate the two smacks of a failed attempt at parroted innuendo.
Yes, they may speak of their faith but will not go public as to on how they made their leadership decision. In example, a president would never say "We are going to move in this direction because this is what god would want", or "The bible says it's wrong..."
You would never see anything like that.
--
Man created God in his image : intolerant, sexist, homophobic and violent.

Placebo
Premium
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Huntley, IL
·Comcast

Re: But what about. . .

quote:
Yes, they may speak of their faith but will not go public as to on how they made their leadership decision. In example, a president would never say "We are going to move in this direction because this is what god would want", or "The bible says it's wrong..."
You would never see anything like that.
What exactly are you trying to say? That a politician can't let his religion and moral upbringing influence his decision-making? George Washington would disagree (from his 1796 farewell address):

"Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports". »www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/washing.htm
Your myopic view of the LDS religion is amusing. Have you thought, for just one moment, that Romney won in Utah because his "conservative" positions appealed to the GOP base? Did you expect Mormons to vote for McCain? Maybe they should have voted for Huckabee, who bangs the war drum for anti-Mormon groups everywhere. Give me a break. Romney won Utah (and the Mormon vote) because of:

1.The demonizing of the LDS religion by other GOP candidates, which caused the Mormons to circle their wagons around the candidate that they felt was being attacked unfairly
2.The fact that Romney's positions line up well with those held by most Mormons
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edit:
February 28th, @01:12AM

said by hopeflicker See Profile :

One incident (the obvious one) that comes to mind is that Romney easily took Utah. As we know, Romney is Mormon, and the state of Utah is predominantly Mormon. The residents of Utah voted for him because of his religious belief.
I was transplanted to this wacky state, and I can't disagree that the LDS church is quite intertwined with politics here. (I'm not LDS.)

But Romney didn't win only because he's Mormon, but also because he came in, took care of an Olympics in shambles and ended up putting on the most profitible Olympics in history. (Was it the only profitible Olympics?) Because of that he's well respected by people of all faiths here.

I believe he took 80% of the state; but the state is down to 50% LDS.

The tide is changing very rapidly here. Mormons are a minority in Salt Lake County. They're an extreme minority in Salt Lake City proper.

It's a little weird here sometimes, but damn does the snowboarding rock

jgkolt
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Lakewood, OH
clubs:

gone is the common carrier

SO there will be no isp in untah that will operate because they would lose their common carrier status and be held liable for the data that flows over their network. Maybe att with their filter will go there and realize it wont be done.
--
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Mr Matt

join:2008-01-29
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·Comcast

Bringing Religion to the Internet

I guess the internet is not puritan enough. One persons obscene material is another persons educational material, particularly when it comes to science. Who defines what is obscene? This law reminds me of the methods of the Taliban. Will Utah establish a Morality Police and make violation of said law a Capital Offense?
hoyleysox

join:2003-11-07
Long Beach, CA

cottage industry

Get paid to break the filter!

NetFixer
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SCO is an obscenity

I wonder if Ralph Yarro has considered that for some of us in the IT industry the name SCO is now an obscenity?

If he wants to preach morality, perhaps he should have started by looking in the mirror.
--
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We need to witness our own limits transgressed, and some life pasturing freely where we never wander.
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wruckman
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Hogwash

What a bunch of crap. What business does Utah have regulating the internet? Lets just change everything, JUST FOR UTAH! It is IMPOSSIBLE for a ISP to filter all porn content. No one would be able to get a seal of approval! And to hold a hotspot owner liable for some jackass using his connection, bull! This should be stopped in its tracks. This is a worldwide issue, not a state issue. Go pave roads! Don't regulate internet!
--
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woodward
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Clarification

Karl, you missed an important, and baffling, element of this bill. The "seal" created by the bill is entirely voluntary (and you are correct thinking, "Wait, a voluntary fine of $10k? That makes no sense.")

XMission is, of course, a vocal opponent of this legislation:

»peteashdown.org/journal/2008/02/···pproval/
expert007

join:2006-01-10
Buffalo, NY

Re: Clarification

The backers of this legislation apparently spend countless hours "researching" just what constitutes this "porn" stuff. Word has it that when they emerge from their "research" sessions, they're all disheveled and smoking cigarettes.

Noah Vail
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Re: Clarification

said by woodward See Profile :

Karl, you missed an important, and baffling, element of this bill. The "seal" created by the bill is entirely voluntary (and you are correct thinking, "Wait, a voluntary fine of $10k? That makes no sense.")
XMission is, of course, a vocal opponent of this legislation:
»peteashdown.org/journal/2008/02/···pproval/
This is probably the most dead-on assessment I've read here. I deal with just this issue on a daily basis and it's an 'in the trenches' war.

This proposal isn't as technologically dumb as the last one, but it's twice as naive and no more workable. They really need some better advisers. They come across as fools to people who's opinion actually has some value.

That having been said,
the Mormons, other Christian faiths,
as well as much of Islam
(and I suppose just about all religions)
recognize the damage to society that comes from mainstreaming pornography.

I applaud their goal,
which is to return the stigma back
to degrading women and regarding them as being-less things.

When we men forget that women are spiritually superior to us and that women are the keepers of the worthiest part of humanity, then we men will no longer honor our duty to protect women and their sanctity.

Without women existing in their natural state, humanity has no worth or value. Pornography takes us to that place.

Only delusion
could connive someone
into defending
devaluing humanity
until it has zero worth.

Please don't be ethically stupid.

BTW. For anyone considering debating this post, do try not to take a line or two out of context and pretend that your debate of a crippled topic has any merit.

NV
--
Abortion: A Republican Plot to Thin the Liberal Herd.

Jason Levine
Premium
join:2001-07-13
Albany, NY

That's the first thing I thought of. What ISP in their right mind would *VOLUNTARILY* sign up for this program and open themselves to a $10,000 fine for each slip-up? If they wanted to target the "think of the children" audience, they could skip the government sanctioned G-Rating and simply sell a filtered version of their access. They can even put wording in their TOS that they make every effort to filter out the non-G-Rated stuff but can't be held accountable for the stuff that slips through. This way, when a slip up inevitably happens, they won't be facing lawsuits (at least not ones with any merit) and they won't be facing huge government fines.
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FLengineer
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Offensive??

Is porn offensive? To some people yes, but to other people boxing is offensive and violent (not me). So lets add violent sports to the list shall we. Oh and btw if our president ever gets in trouble with an intern again Utah would be the place to find a jury who knows nothing about the situation. If Utah doesn't want offensive content in their internet then they need to pull the plugs and call their own private network the Utahnet or maybe they could make a spin off of the usenet and call it the uselessnet.

danawhitaker
Space...The Final Frontier
Premium
join:2002-03-02
Urbandale, IA
·MSN
·Mediacom

Can't stop laughing...

Isn't it my responsibility as a parent to monitor/block access to content I deem inappropriate for my child?

You know what I always want to do when I hear about stuff like this? I want to confiscate every computer from every single proponent of this garbage legislation and search it for pornographic content.
--
You're watching Sports Night on CSC so stick around...
elijah6
Premium
join:2002-02-14
Lake Wales, FL

Re: Can't stop laughing...



I can almost guarantee that 80-90 percent of the hard drives will have child pron on it.

texans20
TaxHikeMike dot org
Premium
join:2002-09-28
Texas!
clubs:

Moral of the story

Don't live in Utah.

fatness
subtle
Janitor
join:2000-11-17
fishing

good grief

Even the Amish don't block porn.
grumpy3b

join:2001-12-11
Lompoc, CA

Re: good grief

holy-seep-sheet batman...!!! That is beyond funny!! Amish porn!!! HAHAHAHA!!
old_wiz_60

join:2005-06-03
Bedford, MA