Utah's Utopia Tries To Stay Afloat Decides to focus on small businesses Just a few years ago, Utah was on the cutting edge of community-driven fiber networks, laying claim to two of the nation's largest municipal fiber builds. But last May, one of those networks (iProvo) was sold to Broadweave for $40 million. The other, Utopia, has so-far underperformed, with fewer subscribers than expected despite carriers offering 50Mbps fiber (a 100GB cap) for $39.95. Ed Gubbins of Telephony Online says Utopia is taking one last shot at the wholesale muni-model with a new business model, new management, and a greater focus on business lines. Key to Utopias new focus is a move to redirect network deployment toward businesses rather than residential customers. Though the project was initially conceived as a way to bring universal broadband to underserved residents, critics say that model isnt lucrative enough. And so in recent months, Utopia began connecting its fiber to underserved office parks in Utah County, the area just south of Salt Lake County that includes Provo and houses more than 10,000 businesses. The shift mirrors similar moves by ISPs like Speakeasy, who found themselves focusing on small business customers (see our interview on this with their CEO) instead of residential users to stay alive. In Utopia's case, they weren't helped by Qwest, who sued to prevent the project from using utility poles -- delaying Utopia by eighteen months before they even had a chance to compete. Back to Broadweave and iProvo, the Salt Lake City Tribune states that there were multiple parties interested in acquiring the iProvo network, including ISPs MStar and XMission, as well as Dynamic City, the firm that runs Utopia. However, there seems to be some debate over how transparent the city of Provo was about selling the network, with some locals claiming that MStar was double crossed by Broadweave during their efforts to acquire the network.
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 RadioDoc58ef2c0Premium,ExMod 2000-03 join:2000-05-11 | A race you don't want to win The residential broadband market is a race to the bottom. Despite the advertised bitrate puffery the real driving force is price. Unless you can subsidize your losses in competitive markets like the cable companies do, or subsidize your residential customers with your business customers like the phone companies do, you end up losing money. Put another way, 'we lose money on every sale but make it up with volume".
The only way a stand-alone can survive is to position itself as a quality, business-oriented service. Residential-only broadband is a dead-end. -- Toolmaster of La Grange. | |
|  |  fpilot join:2007-02-24 Camino, CA | Re: A race you don't want to win said by RadioDoc:The residential broadband market is a race to the bottom. Despite the advertised bitrate puffery the real driving force is price. Unless you can subsidize your losses in competitive markets like the cable companies do, or subsidize your residential customers with your business customers like the phone companies do, you end up losing money. Put another way, 'we lose money on every sale but make it up with volume". The only way a stand-alone can survive is to position itself as a quality, business-oriented service. Residential-only broadband is a dead-end. It's not as easy to segment the telecommunications market into residential and business anymore. Witness the rise in home based businesses demanding solid broadband connections that has blurred the line between these traditional market segments. | |
|  |  |  RadioDoc58ef2c0Premium,ExMod 2000-03 join:2000-05-11 | Re: A race you don't want to win It's difficult to segment it if you are playing the lowest-price retail commodity game. However if you provide actual service (see Speakeasy and Megapath for instance) you can charge what the service is worth to those home office folks who need a reliable, uncapped, un-AUP'd business-class service. -- Toolmaster of La Grange. | |
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 |  patcat88 join:2002-04-05 Jamaica, NY kudos:1 | said by RadioDoc:The only way a stand-alone can survive is to position itself as a quality, business-oriented service. Residential-only broadband is a dead-end. You mean start at $1000 a month and going up? (you can't undercut a T1 can you?) | |
|  |  |  RadioDoc58ef2c0Premium,ExMod 2000-03 join:2000-05-11 1 edit | Re: A race you don't want to win Stand-alone. Not incumbent cable or telco. Get it? -- Toolmaster of La Grange. | |
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 | | the evil internet Outside of Salt Lake and Provo I dont think this will sell. Southern UT is like Afghanistan. Taliban controlled. They are too fearful of porn to get "the internets" or "the tubes" in their home as it will bring smut from "evil" places like NY and CA. They want nice Mormon controlled cable. Trying to find decent internet in UT is very difficult. I know. I have relatives that live in central UT. They really dont know what the internet is, just that its something that people talk about. If you have ever lived in central UT or read the Salt Lake Tribune you will understand what I am talking about. -- Lakewood Accountability Action Group LAAG | »www.LAAG.us | Lakewood, CA A California Non Profit Association | Demanding action and accountability from local government
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|  |  woody7Premium join:2000-10-13 Torrance, CA | Re: the evil internet One of the most popular programs watched in "Utah" used to be "desperate housewives".........seems kind of two faced to me. The public side and the private side, geesh......... -- BlooMe | |
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| I think you are being over dramatic and ridiculous and insult to other believes. The is no comparison of Mormons to that of the Taliban except for one massacre over 151 years ago. You can always move to another state if you do not like what is available . | |
|  |  |  | | Re: the evil internet said by Scatcatpdx:I think you are being over dramatic and ridiculous and insult to other believes. The is no comparison of Mormons to that of the Taliban except for one massacre over 151 years ago. You can always move to another state if you do not like what is available . I did move out years ago. UT is a very unusual place (no. one Bush supporting state 8 yrs running). It is essentially a "church state" as the legislature and governor are all mormons. I know some jewish democrats up there. Funny...no really sad...stories about politics up there. And no I was not referring to violence re the comparison to the Taliban but what happens to culture when one religion dominates and extremism seeps in. -- Lakewood Accountability Action Group LAAG | »www.LAAG.us | Lakewood, CA A California Non Profit Association | Demanding action and accountability from local government
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|  |  |  |  wifi4milezBig Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace join:2004-08-07 New York, NY | Re: the evil internet said by VerizonCynic:And no I was not referring to violence re the comparison to the Taliban but what happens to culture when one religion dominates and extremism seeps in. I must say that calling Mormons "extremists" is likely to offend many people, especially when taken in the context of a Taliban referrence. -- Комитет государственной безопасности
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| Except for alcohol you give an example. Where did they infringed your rights. Try to carry a bible and walk with a women uncovered and kiss her in public. Tell me where will you and the women be executed or flogged: in a Mormon controlled city or a Taliban controlled area. There is no comparison. I am a reformed Christian I can live in a Mormon controlled area but try to be a Christian in a Taliban contorted area, Sudan or even Saudi Arabia. In a Mormon are the most, I would be shunned or more likely they would attempted convert me, a far cry for stoning, hamstringing, flogging or being shot. | |
|  |  |  |  |  | | Re: the evil internet said by Scatcatpdx:Except for alcohol you give an example. Where did they infringed your rights. Try to carry a bible and walk with a women uncovered and kiss her in public. Tell me where will you and the women be executed or flogged: in a Mormon controlled city or a Taliban controlled area. There is no comparison. I am a reformed Christian I can live in a Mormon controlled area but try to be a Christian in a Taliban contorted area, Sudan or even Saudi Arabia. In a Mormon are the most, I would be shunned or more likely they would attempted convert me, a far cry for stoning, hamstringing, flogging or being shot. like I said I am not referring to violence. Extremism takes many forms and many years to develop. I know what I am talking about as I used to live there among them.
But as we are in the topic of religion this string will never end and is way off topic. So you religion people can move along now. Nothing to see here. -- Lakewood Accountability Action Group LAAG | »www.LAAG.us | Lakewood, CA A California Non Profit Association | Demanding action and accountability from local government
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|  |  |  |  |  |  lesopp join:2001-06-27 Land O Lakes, FL | Re: the evil internet "you religion people can move along now. Nothing to see here"
What the A55HOLE means is "oops! I offended someone and don't want to keep discussing it". The words "I think" was intentionally omitted from the phrase since it obviously doesn't apply. | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |  | | Re: the evil internet said by lesopp:"you religion people can move along now. Nothing to see here" What the A55HOLE means is "oops! I offended someone and don't want to keep discussing it". The words "I think" was intentionally omitted from the phrase since it obviously doesn't apply. Yeah lets not offend anyone by using the term asshole. Did you learn that in church? -- Lakewood Accountability Action Group LAAG | »www.LAAG.us | Lakewood, CA A California Non Profit Association | Demanding action and accountability from local government
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 |  |  |  |  HST @verizon.net | I strongly agree with your claim that Mormons are slightly more tolerant than the Taliban. | |
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 MattAll noise, no signal.Premium join:2003-07-20 Jamestown, NC kudos:12 | Good idea, not ideal location I've been to Utah (my girlfriend was born there) ... it's not the best place to roll something like this out. Her family STILL has dial-up even though high-speed is available to them. They just don't see a need for it. And yes, they have a teenage son in the house.
Utopia started off right with a slow, controlled deployment, however I fear they may have forgotten to canvass who their potential customers might be and what the current rate of broadband adoption is.
Hopefully the shift to businesses (why didn't they offer business service to begin with?) will help keep them afloat and turn their books around. | |
|  |  dynodbPremium,VIP join:2004-04-21 Minneapolis, MN | Re: Good idea, not ideal location said by Matt:...Utopia started off right with a slow, controlled deployment, however I fear they may have forgotten to canvass who their potential customers might be and what the current rate of broadband adoption is.... Were they to do that, the populist crowd would start screaming about cherry-picking and how certain groups weren't being served. | |
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 dynodbPremium,VIP join:2004-04-21 Minneapolis, MN | And another one down... And another one down, another one bites the dust...
How many more munis have to fail (usually with the taxpayer left holding the bill) before it's recognized that it's a bad idea? Why would anyone expect government to be the paragons of efficiency delivering broadband that they fail to in nearly every other endeavor?
Seems to me it would be cheaper and a lot quicker to provide incentives of some sort such as tax breaks to locally serving providers (be they ILEC, CLEC or local ISP) to expand or improve deployment.
And yet the next time a municipality proposes a pie in the sky fiber muni project with some fly by night outfit that's doomed to go overbudget and way past deadline before eventually failing, 90% of the BBR crowd will think it a great idea.  | |
|  |  | | Re: And another one down... said by dynodb:Seems to me it would be cheaper and a lot quicker to provide incentives of some sort such as tax breaks to locally serving providers (be they ILEC, CLEC or local ISP) to expand or improve deployment. We gave that a shot with the Telecommunications Act of 1996. Twelve years and $200B later, they all failed to deliver on their promises of a 45Mbps fiber network to every home and business in the nation with competitive retailers. I don't know about you, but I think I've had my fill of trying to accomplish anything with tax breaks. | |
|  |  |  | | Re: And another one down... We need to stick it to the Telcos who received the 200+ Billion. I say we force the issue, tell them they have 3 years to deploy FTTH to everyone currently receiving DSL and within 6 years of everyone currently receiving telephone service. If they don't do it then they have to pay back the money we gave them with interest.
Not that I want to drag politics into this but there is a small chance that Obama may do this or something similar.
Verizon is the only one that would have little to worry about as they are already doing it. But Qworst and the Deathstar are holding onto cooper for dear life hoping to get another 10 years before being forced off it kicking and screaming. | |
|  |  |  |  dynodbPremium,VIP join:2004-04-21 Minneapolis, MN | Re: And another one down... said by jdjbuffalo:We need to stick it to the Telcos who received the 200+ Billion. I say we force the issue, tell them they have 3 years to deploy FTTH to everyone currently receiving DSL and within 6 years of everyone currently receiving telephone service. If they don't do it then they have to pay back the money we gave them with interest. Not that I want to drag politics into this but there is a small chance that Obama may do this or something similar. Verizon is the only one that would have little to worry about as they are already doing it. But Qworst and the Deathstar are holding onto cooper for dear life hoping to get another 10 years before being forced off it kicking and screaming. You're referring to the (mismanaged) USF? It didn't involve blank checks to telcos- money was distributed (largely based on politics) to fund anything from schools, cell providers, and other specific projects.
FTTH for everyone is little more than a pipe dream at this point, and will remain so for much longer than 6 years. | |
|  |  |  |  |  | | Re: And another one down... No. Here is what I'm referring to: "Over the decade from 1994-2004 the major telephone companies profited from higher phone rates paid by all of us, accelerated depreciation on their networks, and direct tax credits an average of $2,000 per subscriber for which the companies delivered precisely nothing in terms of service to customers. That's $200 billion with nothing to be shown for it."
Read more here: »www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/2007···683.html | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  dynodbPremium,VIP join:2004-04-21 Minneapolis, MN | Re: And another one down... said by jdjbuffalo:No. Here is what I'm referring to: "Over the decade from 1994-2004 the major telephone companies profited from higher phone rates paid by all of us, accelerated depreciation on their networks, and direct tax credits an average of $2,000 per subscriber for which the companies delivered precisely nothing in terms of service to customers. That's $200 billion with nothing to be shown for it." Read more here: » www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/2007···683.html Higher rates, accelerated depreciation and tax credits are not the same as as a government subsidy.
And nothing to show for it in a timeframe in which fiber capacity, DSL and cable broadband, and cellular coverage took off? | |
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 |  |  dynodbPremium,VIP join:2004-04-21 Minneapolis, MN | said by JesseHarris:said by dynodb:Seems to me it would be cheaper and a lot quicker to provide incentives of some sort such as tax breaks to locally serving providers (be they ILEC, CLEC or local ISP) to expand or improve deployment. We gave that a shot with the Telecommunications Act of 1996. Twelve years and $200B later, they all failed to deliver on their promises of a 45Mbps fiber network to every home and business in the nation with competitive retailers. I don't know about you, but I think I've had my fill of trying to accomplish anything with tax breaks. I think you misunderstand what the 1996 Act was all about- it certainly didn't entail promises of fiber to every home in the nation (no one has credibly promised that). It is very, very expansive and hindered progress as much as anything it did to help- it was written pre-Internet era. | |
|  |  |  wifi4milezBig Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace join:2004-08-07 New York, NY | said by JesseHarris:said by dynodb:Seems to me it would be cheaper and a lot quicker to provide incentives of some sort such as tax breaks to locally serving providers (be they ILEC, CLEC or local ISP) to expand or improve deployment. We gave that a shot with the Telecommunications Act of 1996. Not really. All the 1996 Telecom Act effectively did was to usher in the billing nightmare formerly know as UNE-P. Hundred of "Me Too!" CLEC's popped up around the country doing nothing more the LEC resale. Customers were down for WEEKS, frustrations were high, and in the end many customers ended back up with the LEC through 'win-back' programs due to horendous customer "support". -- Комитет государственной безопасности
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 |  pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium join:2002-05-02 Mount Airy, MD | said by dynodb:How many more munis have to fail (usually with the taxpayer left holding the bill) before it's recognized that it's a bad idea? Time for a government bailout.  -- Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty | |
|  |  KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium join:2000-01-17 Tulsa, OK Reviews:
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| Destroyed because the Incumbents changed the rules (laws) mid-game.
In the greater scheme of things, a central infrastructure open to all competitors to provide service on (IE Provider separated from Content provider) is the most efficient and logical model.... but not the most profitable (Monopoly or Duoopoly) if you want to be the exclusive provider.
Kill it before it grows has been the motto. Looks like they will succeed, too. -- "Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
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|  |  KoolMoeAw ManPremium join:2001-02-14 Annapolis, MD | So instead of taxpayer money (or not, in the case of revenue bonds) going to fund muni infrastructure, you'd rather taxpayer money be used to create 'tax incentives'. Why is one better than the other?
And there's nothing in these stories about mismanagement - at least no worse than any private/public company has incurred over the years. That's a standard scare tactic - inefficiency and mismanagement.
I think gov't funded infrastructure is a NECESSITY, then lease out operation to a private party (accountable to the gov't agency), which then manages the leases to third-party content providers.
The conflict of interest between pipe-providers and content-providers is one of the biggest problems in advancing our technologies overall. Let's separate them, just like with highways. KM | |
|  |  |  dynodbPremium,VIP join:2004-04-21 Minneapolis, MN | Re: And another one down... said by KoolMoe:So instead of taxpayer money (or not, in the case of revenue bonds) going to fund muni infrastructure, you'd rather taxpayer money be used to create 'tax incentives'. Why is one better than the other? And there's nothing in these stories about mismanagement - at least no worse than any private/public company has incurred over the years. That's a standard scare tactic - inefficiency and mismanagement. 1. Tax incentives that offer lower taxes on something that doesn't yet exist isn't the same as taxpayer funding.
2. The muni battlefield is littered with the bodies of failed or failing projects. That they're failing is evidence enough of inefficiency and mismanagement. | |
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 |  wifi4milezBig Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace join:2004-08-07 New York, NY | said by dynodb:And another one down, another one bites the dust... How many more munis have to fail (usually with the taxpayer left holding the bill) before it's recognized that it's a bad idea? Why would anyone expect government to be the paragons of efficiency delivering broadband that they fail to in nearly every other endeavor? So very, very true. The last thing any of us need is to pay more taxes, and these muni "efforts" are always a total mess.
said by dynodb:Seems to me it would be cheaper and a lot quicker to provide incentives of some sort such as tax breaks to locally serving providers (be they ILEC, CLEC or local ISP) to expand or improve deployment. WHAT??? How dare you utter something so completely rational, dont you realize you are posting on the "Broadband Socialist Network"??
said by dynodb:And yet the next time a municipality proposes a pie in the sky fiber muni project with some fly by night outfit that's doomed to go overbudget and way past deadline before eventually failing, 90% of the BBR crowd will think it a great idea. HAHAHAHAHAHA, wow I just about fell off my chair when I read that! I feel I have the same arguments with the same people each time we read about one of these (doomed) money pit schemes. Well said my friend, well said! -- Комитет государственной безопасности
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|  |  | | said by dynodb:Seems to me it would be cheaper and a lot quicker to provide incentives of some sort such as tax breaks to locally serving providers (be they ILEC, CLEC or local ISP) to expand or improve deployment. Replace one tax-payer funded model with another tax payer funded model... Either way, tax payers are left holding the bag.
At least with the muni model, tax payers might actually see a return on that investment. ILECs love to take government incentives, but not hold up their end of the bargain. -- --- Drilling for more oil is akin to giving a methhead the keys to the meth lab. | |
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 | | Interesting.... This is all very interesting to me. EVERY person I talk to about internet with regards to Utopia, wishes they had it. I have NEVER heard one person say they would rather have Cable or DSL. Now, as a disclaimer, I do live in Utah these people are not all tech savvy or computer know-it-alls either. When I talk to someone new (social gathering, etc.) we usually talk about what each of us do for work and when they find out I am in IT, the conversation usually moves toward their home network, ISP's, etc.
It almost seems like Qworst should have been sued back by Utopia for hindering competition. But, alas I only have my 2 cents. | |
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Instead of relying on false concepts of the "Mormon" religion for information about computer/internet usage, look at the facts . »www.ntia.doc.gov/ntiahome/dn/hhs···dex.html Pay particular attention to tables 'H1' and 'H2'. Granted this study is a little bit old but I still believe it fairly accurate (as far as comparative %'s. Obviously the number of internet users has gone up in the past 7 years...). | |
|  | | deep probs from within ....the Mormon issue is really off track here on this particular subject. If UTards want some pertinent info to be concerned about/ to sink their teeth into they should ask the member cities to get concrete info from Utopia as to how on-schedule the tracking of the new bond repayments are ie: the payments are due by X date & utopia has X amount of time left until then. Local word on the street from a few sources says they need 100+ installs a week to make good on those payments. Thats a helluva prob since sources inside have said that recent as a few weeks ago, they were roughly showing nearly 10% of that number! Granted that this as i have come to understand it, the #'s are based on residential install take rates, and commercial accounts will show more positive cash flow. | |
|  | | Deployed Seems like in order for people to sign up for Utopia, it would have to be available!
My area was supposed to have Utopia available 2 years ago. Where is it? Second largest city in the state and the largest possible sub base, Utopia is nowhere to be seen.
I don't even know anyone who CAN sign up. Can't get any subs if it it's not even available. | |
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