 
TechSponge
join:2001-05-14
Hillside, NJ | Sure, But only if you live IN the C.O. or in the cardboard box next to the RT. They cant even clean up the copper to provide 3/768 11k ft. out.
Paleezzzze.... | |
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 | silica
join:2004-05-20
Duluth, GA | Re: Sure, But only They only have to go (up to) 600 ft within an apartment building. | |
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| soothsayer15
join:2002-03-01
Irving, TX
2 edits | TechSponge
Sure, But only
if you live IN the C.O. or in the cardboard box next to the RT. They cant even clean up the copper to provide 3/768 11k ft. out.
Paleezzzze.
You were the first poster and you didn't even read the article. The fiber goes to the basement of the apartment building, then out to the phone lines already installed in the building. Make your points with facts instead of hate. | |
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| 
rachelsfx
join:2004-09-27
Pensacola, FL | Yes, the CO is inside your house! You qualify for 100mbps/512k!
How much?
$599
Your kidding?
Nope!
I'll take FIOS instead.
Sorry, your county won't allow it.
Those sons-of-b**ches!
Yep! | |
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| 
SpongeHeady
@bellsouth.net | I love the fact that you just rushed to be the first post without reading the article to get facts. Must be a USA Today subscriber.
PuHHLeeeeeeezee | |
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| |
TechSponge
join:2001-05-14
Hillside, NJ
| Re: Sure, But only Whatever. I didnt need to read it to understand the incompetance that is Verizon. AND...I dont live in an apartment. And lastly, my neck of the LIVING ON TOP OF EACH OTHER woods isnt going to FIOS for plenty of time to come. I dont see how 600 ft runs is going to help their ineptitude regardless of whether or not I read the full article. | |
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| | | soothsayer15
join:2002-03-01
Irving, TX | Re: Sure, But only LOL. The ignorance and bias comes out. | |
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| |
missingdate
@verizon.net
| 2018 maybe?!? Umm, NOTHING verizon does with DSL technology is "ON-TIME" if you must know and this is proven FACT (going all the way back to 1996 and the former Verizon tentacles--ahem, bell operationg companies aka RBOCS)! You'd have a much better chance of getting 100/100 out of FTTP ont's than vdsl deployments! Unless the manufacturers want to make equipment for cracker scraps and wages even a chinese laborer wouldn't work for... than you MAY see VDSL on a closer timetable.. heh , heh, heh. It's not even worth the grain of salt you need to take this with..
| |
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DaveNJ
No Fear
join:1999-09-01
New Jersey
 ·Comcast
·Patriot Media
| docsis 3 will appear when needed Cable has been the winner on internet connectivity for years, and dsl/fios is just catching up. Once cable feels a threat they will react, DS3 will appear once telco dsl up the ante. But either way its going to be incremental why would the telco tip there hand early, when they can go up 2m at a time ?
--
the darkest moment is often just before dawn (unless we hold onto the darkness). Anxiety spoils everything and solves nothing. | |
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| hescominsoon
join:2003-02-18
Brunswick, MD
·Comcast
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: docsis 3 will appear when needed REally? Hrmm i don't hear of onerous caps with dsl nearly as often as you do almost with a certainty on cable. I have 3/768 and it jsut works great. 6/512 jsut doesn't apeal as the upload is what counts these days with attachments getting larger and games requiring more bandwidth. | |
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| | pabster
join:2001-12-09
Waterloo, IA
·Mediacom
| Re: docsis 3 will appear when needed Of course you "don't hear of caps as often with DSL as cable". That's because DSL is (by and large) MUCH slower than the cable offerings. Here Cable is (literally) 10x faster than the fastest DSL (and cheaper to boot). Thus with your slow DSL connection there is little need for caps.
VDSL is a pipe dream. And remember guys, not everybody lives in an apartment building. | |
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| | | cwh
join:2006-05-14
San Antonio, TX
| Re: docsis 3 will appear when needed said by pabster  :VDSL is a pipe dream. And remember guys, not everybody lives in an apartment building. Why is it a pipe dream when it has been succefully deployed overseas and is curently being deployed here? | |
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| patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
| said by DaveNJ :Cable has been the winner on internet connectivity for years, and dsl/fios is just catching up. Once cable feels a threat they will react, DS3 will appear once telco dsl up the ante. But either way its going to be incremental why would the telco tip there hand early, when they can go up 2m at a time ? I dont mean to nit pick, but DS3 is a synonym of a T3 line. It took me a few secs to figure you ment DOCSIS3. | |
|
| |
DaveNJ
No Fear
join:1999-09-01
New Jersey
·Comcast
·Patriot Media
| Re: docsis 3 will appear when needed said by patcat88 :said by DaveNJ :Cable has been the winner on internet connectivity for years, and dsl/fios is just catching up. Once cable feels a threat they will react, DS3 will appear once telco dsl up the ante. But either way its going to be incremental why would the telco tip there hand early, when they can go up 2m at a time ? I dont mean to nit pick, but DS3 is a synonym of a T3 line. It took me a few secs to figure you ment DOCSIS3. I just didnt feel like typing docsis 3.0, maybe a good choice would be Doc3.
--
the darkest moment is often just before dawn (unless we hold onto the darkness). Anxiety spoils everything and solves nothing. | |
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| 
dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ | DSL will NEVER catch up to cable due to distance issues. if a cable company offers a certain speed, I can get it. NOT SO with DSL.
--
You can never be too rich, too thin or have too much Bandwidth | |
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|
| KONG4
join:2002-04-05
Tampa, FL
| Re: Hello AT&T - This is what is needed Actually VZ will be able to run the full 100 mbs and offer more than 5 hdtv channels at once on one piece of fiber.
The fiber line actually carries 10 different wave lengths or colors of laser light if you will. Only one wavelength is used for data. And one wave length can hit gigs not just megs per second. The other waves are used for other services in the fios rollout. That's not all there is to fiber optic rollout, the capacity is so much higher. But this is the easiest way to explain it with out getting super involved. | |
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| | |
| | | bogey780
join:2004-03-19
Here | Re: Hello AT&T - This is what is needed Uhhh...essentially Verizon's plan as listed here is FTTN/FTTC. AT&T's plan with pair-bonding can accomplish the same thing. What's the problem? Do you hate the copper that much that you'll hate it even if it does the same job? | |
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| | | | | pabster
join:2001-12-09
Waterloo, IA
·Mediacom
| Re: Hello AT&T - This is what is needed Thanks for the figures. I knew VDSL deteroriated quickly with distance. Apparently some here feel that everyone lives in an apartment complex or multi-unit dwelling where they can just run a few hundred feet and everyone will get 100Mbps, LOL.
DOCSIS 3.0 is more than formidable competition for VDSL, it will wipe the floor with it. | |
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| | | | | | cwh
join:2006-05-14
San Antonio, TX
| Re: Hello AT&T - This is what is needed said by pabster :Thanks for the figures. I knew VDSL deteroriated quickly with distance. Apparently some here feel that everyone lives in an apartment complex or multi-unit dwelling where they can just run a few hundred feet and everyone will get 100Mbps, LOL. DOCSIS 3.0 is more than formidable competition for VDSL, it will wipe the floor with it. Well it might when DOCSIS 3.0 quits being vaporware. By that time there will probably be something faster than VDSL2 out. VDSL2 is about double the speed of VDSL on short loops. | |
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| | | | | | bogey780
join:2004-03-19
Here
| The only problem with that is the cable companies need to field DOCSIS 3.0 to wipe the floor with VDSL. And by the time the cable companies get 3.0 fielded the telco's already have VDSL2 in the pipes and FTTC being the norm in greenbuilds.
25megs at a mile is impressive(ADSL2+/VDSL2). Especially with pair bonding.
Not to mention the backhaul. The telco's are already upgrading theirs to GigE. | |
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| | | | |
whereswaldo
@verizon.net
| VDSL Downstream Rates vs. Distance-
12.96 - 13.8 Mbps 4500 ft
25.92 - 27.6 Mbps 3000 ft
51.84 - 55.2 Mbps 1000 ft
Companies who feed this insanity of dsl through 2006:
pricele$$
12 pings and maybe one pong 18000ft- (worthless dsl speed)
for everything else there's worthless at&t, and some weirdo at verizon still touting this idea!! | |
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| 
Heterman
Premium
join:2004-02-28
Fayetteville, AR
| I think at&t has more up their sleeve than they are letting on. I have heard rumors of a 25Mb service sometime near the year end, after they squeeze everyone for 6Mb. It's simple business strategy. There is no need right now to just "plop" 25Mb out there. Sure, it would be nice, but that is not how business works.
I have also heard similar numbers as posted above on the HD bandwidth that Verizon claims. I think at&t said theirs is something like that.
I just wouldn't be so hellbent on saying 6/1 is all the bandwith that is going to be available. I think (and hope) there is more in store, something the rumor mill hasn't got a hold of. | |
|
| TheGuvnor9
join:2006-06-23
Fort Worth, TX
| Uhm, no. Verizon is not going to offer 5 HD channels and 50 Mbps of data. First of all, they can't. Its called bandwidth allocation. Customers requiring 5 simultaneous HD screens are few and far between, sure everyone would like 5 streams, but are they going to get it, probably not. Furthermore no customer deserves 50 Mbps of data, which they cannot afford.
Lightspeed is a midterm technology, geared to get the customer ready for IPTV. AT&T is deploying FTTN technology for a reason, this reason is upgradeability. FTTN cabinets and equipment will be easily upgradeable to FTTC or FTTP technologies. AT&T is trying to get the technology, delivery, and backhaul built up before they go FTTC or FTTP, why?? Because a makes sense.
When it comes to high speed internet We suffer from buffet syndrome. Concetrate on what is needed now and build your network along with the pace.
Also understand that Verizon is doing FTTP mostly in areas with aerial deployments or new neighborhoods. | |
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| | patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
| Re: Hello AT&T - This is what is needed AFAIK, ATT Lightspeed has no provisions for a FiOS-like PON. I dont think ATT is putting in the 100s of strands fiber that Verizon uses for PON. If anything, ATT's fiber will have to be coverted to a electrical signal and sent through a backbone-grade router in a RT cabinet, and then upgraded to have 100s/1000s of fiber going to each home split off that 1 incoming fiber, and again we have the HFC DOCSIS problem, cable cos dont want to split nodes or replace the last mile coax, and that ATT will not want to invest in a $10,000-$50,000 OC192 or OC96 linecard to backhaul to the CO for the 100s/1000s of users on that RT, nor a router capables of 10 gigabits of routing speed. PONs like FiOS (1:32 split) are split 1:8 upto 1:64 as i recall. The telco still needs alot of backhaul to the CO fibers, I dont think ATT is installing these all these extra fibers. Verizon is doing it right, ATT is just patches, shortcuts, and gimicks and soon its nothing except a mountain of ducttape. If ATT is installing enough backhaul strands of fiber to upgrade to a PON, someone correct me. | |
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| | | cwh
join:2006-05-14
San Antonio, TX
| Re: Hello AT&T - This is what is needed said by patcat88 :AFAIK, ATT Lightspeed has no provisions for a FiOS-like PON. I dont think ATT is putting in the 100s of strands fiber that Verizon uses for PON. If anything, ATT's fiber will have to be coverted to a electrical signal and sent through a backbone-grade router in a RT cabinet, and then upgraded to have 100s/1000s of fiber going to each home split off that 1 incoming fiber, and again we have the HFC DOCSIS problem, cable cos dont want to split nodes or replace the last mile coax, and that ATT will not want to invest in a $10,000-$50,000 OC192 or OC96 linecard to backhaul to the CO for the 100s/1000s of users on that RT, nor a router capables of 10 gigabits of routing speed. PONs like FiOS (1:32 split) are split 1:8 upto 1:64 as i recall. The telco still needs alot of backhaul to the CO fibers, I dont think ATT is installing these all these extra fibers. Verizon is doing it right, ATT is just patches, shortcuts, and gimicks and soon its nothing except a mountain of ducttape. If ATT is installing enough backhaul strands of fiber to upgrade to a PON, someone correct me. AT&T is supposed to be laying about 45,000 miles of new fiber for lightspeed. | |
|
Nymostwanted
Who Cares?
Premium
join:2004-06-25
New York, NY
·RoadRunner Cable
 ·Time Warner VOIP
| Sounds good... We all know that 100% FiOS deployment is far away into the future. VDSL will be an option to "soothe" desperate customers and also to maintain their DSL clientele from migrating to Cable. Good move Verizon! Me, personally, am 1300 feet from the CO, but switched over to Cable. If Verizon rolls this out, I'm definitely switching back. | |
|
| JohnA
Premium
join:2003-09-16
Pittsburgh, PA | Re: Sounds good...
VDSL is for use in MDUs, where they can't put fiber to the floors, not coming straight out of the COs. | |
|
| patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
| Verizon shouldnt be wasting money on VDSL only to replace the areas with FiOS in 5 years. Plus, how much % of people live close enough to a CO to qualify to for VDSL, a very small fraction IMO, and it would be a big waste for Verizon to installed the service or even advertise it when they will have to say no to the majority of people. Verizon said they will be getting to doing the majority of rural areas when they finish with the higher population areas and they have a intention to wire most rural areas (something ATT hasnt said) and they specifically said Fios isnt going to be 100% by the end of the main "fios project", but they will have wired the majority of rural areas. Ugh, the newsletter quoted here was taken down, but i remmeber it in my head sorta »Sooo... FIOS in rural areas w/ pop under 1200? My opinion is that means basically VZ will put FIOS practically everywhere and VDSL is pointless and a complete waste of money. Now for in-building instalations, its fine. The person not getting fiber because of Landlord isnt Verizon's fault, and Verizon shouldnt have to deal with a uncooperative landlord, and VDSL is better than nothing with a uncooperative landlord. | |
|
richyrich
@optonline.net | how much? ok, 30mbps/5mbps fios cost $179.95/month. so 100mbps/16mbps DSL that has distance limits will cost $599.83/month. that seems like a big hit. | |
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| fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| Re: how much? said by richyrich :
ok, 30mbps/5mbps fios cost $179.95/month. so 100mbps/16mbps DSL that has distance limits will cost $599.83/month. that seems like a big hit.
And where did you pull that / assume that from? History has shown that as technology advances prices go down or the value goes up for that same price.
I love how people come just here to post hate and flame messages. | |
|
| | RadioDoc
58ef2c0
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
·AT&T Midwest
| Re: how much? said by fiberguy : I love how people come just here to post hate and flame messages. Because 1) it's encouraged by the site, 2) it's easier than reading the article first and 3) it's much easier to just rant (with no factual basis) than researching a post before posting it. There is precious little actual information in these threads because of it.
And that's twice in two weeks we've agreed. 
--
Toolmaster of La Grange. | |
|
| | | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20 | Re: how much? LOL - isn't a third time the sign of the Apocalypse?  | |
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| 
WileEC
mindtaker, macky cat, etc.
join:2002-02-07
Yonkers, NY | I pay 54.95/mo for FiOS 30/5. Your numbers are wrong. | |
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| | jmelson3
join:2001-08-01
Saint Louis, MO | Re: how much? Who the heck is providing that service, and where do
you live? That's cheaper than my 1.5/368 DSL that barely
gets 50% of the download speed!
Jon | |
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|
| patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY | Re: I would pass... Why did you leave FIOS? And how did they let you back onto Verizon DSL of all DSLs? did they cut your copper? | |
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| | |
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sublime81
@comcast.net | you wouldn't be able to switch back to dsl after going to fios. they cut all of your copper, and won't rerun it. | |
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TheOtherPete
join:2001-06-28
Boyds, MD | I don't believe it This has been posted for 2 hours and none of the usual NARAD fan-boys have piped up about how NARAD will offer 100/100Mbps for cablevision users and is available now?
Amazing. | |
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See 8 replies to this post |
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grandpinaple
join:2006-01-03
New York, NY | VDSL? Wait is the VDSL shared to all apartments or is there a dedicated 100Mbps copper link to each apartment. | |
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See 7 replies to this post |
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ftthz
If love can kill hate can also save
join:2005-10-17 | 100mbit gold standard we'll see it when it happens | |
|
Rob A
Same Old Jets
Premium
join:2005-01-17
Pompton Plains, NJ | Why? Why deploy vdsl when they are spending all this money on a superior fiber network? | |
|
| 
richardpor
Fur it up
join:2003-04-19
Portland, OR
| Re: Why? Because like AT&T realized not every building can be backfited for fiber. I can not see why this was not done earlier. Instead of spending bucket full of buck on fiber to the home. Use fiber to move the CO closer to the customer to capture business to far for traditional DSL. | |
|
| | JohnA
Premium
join:2003-09-16
Pittsburgh, PA
| Re: Why?
Watch what ATT ends up doing. The node in FTTN has to get within about 3000' of the modem. Then you have to pair bond it to try and get it to 50mbps. You can spend time and money playing with the phone lines, or you can do it right the first time, with FTTP. | |
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| | | cwh
join:2006-05-14
San Antonio, TX
| Re: Why? said by JohnA :Watch what ATT ends up doing. The node in FTTN has to get within about 3000' of the modem. Then you have to pair bond it to try and get it to 50mbps. You can spend time and money playing with the phone lines, or you can do it right the first time, with FTTP. You are correct that best solution from an engineering point of view is FTTP. However, there are also financial and time contraints as well. VDSL will be an interum solution until FTTP is deployed. VDSL is going to be faster and less expensive to deploy.
Does it really matter what medium is used for communication as long as it provides the end users what they want? | |
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| | lovswr
join:2001-09-15
Stockbridge, GA
| You have hit the nail on the head. If, for example, the cable companies had deployed FTTH instead of FTTN, all the Telco's would be dead by now. Constantly only looking at the short term, instead of focusing on the big picture is such a fault of current American busniess practices.
--
lovswr = good hivswr = bad | |
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| | | grandpinaple
join:2006-01-03
New York, NY | Re: Why? I think the cabelcos would be owned by the telcos if that happened. | |
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Tzale
Proud Libertarian Conservative
Premium
join:2004-01-06
Sweden
 ·Verizon FIOS
·Optimum Online
| Verizon FTTP Why is everyone so nasty when it comes to talk about future broadband deployments? Verizon is servicing people with FIBER TO THE HOME right now... 15,20,30 mbit connections! In these locations, it has driven the cable companies to provide 20mbit and 30mbit connections, at least here in the NY Metro area!
Verizon is doing a good thing. They CAN NOT snap their fingers and give EVERYONE fiber at the same time. It takes YEARS. Your best bet RIGHT NOW is to live in a well-to-do area and somewhere where the local politicians won't oppose the deployment along with a fairly dense area. They are a business, they NEED to make money. They are not going to install service for people who don't demand it and they simply CAN NOT.
The worse thing is that people continue to compare century old copper phone lines to fiber. There is NO comparison. It is VERY expensive to build/maintain copper service. Fiber is VERY cheap after the initial install to maintain and service. The distant limit on fiber is NEARLY LIMITLESS since it is many multiples higher than DSL limits and 99.9% of people live within the limits for fiber to work perfectly.
-Tzale | |
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| srobmw
join:2005-10-01
New Windsor, NY | Re: Verizon FTTP Finally a voice of reason. Well said. | |
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| | 
imtim83
You All Deserve The Economic Meltdown
Premium
join:2001-06-03
Kenner, LA |  Re: Verizon FTTP
said by srobmw :Finally a voice of reason. Well said. Yep! | |
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| | 
lazsheriff
Laz
join:2005-01-03
Fort Lauderdale, FL | ditto  | |
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usbbtech
join:2004-03-25
Brooklyn, NY
| VDSL Deployment VDSL (Very High-Data Rate)DSL , is primarily a short-haul service , in real-life tests able to work in the 3-5000Ft range. VDSL is no fiber killer persee , but has a unique place in delivering broadband services. As some telcos are using it as part of the FTTN (Fiber to the node) deployment , it's now being deployed in MDU/Apartment Infrastructure. This makes since when wanting to deploy high broadband service in an existing high-rise apartment buidling. As an example you can deploy a VDSL system , or VDSL capable ONT in the basement with the existing copper service , then simply X-connect your new service to that customers existing copper pair , now giving then VDSL broadband / POTS on existing infrastructure. In this realm I truly dont think a 100Mbps connection will be achieved unless it was a new construction building , but this is irrelevant as a new construction should go straight with fiber. With that in mind as most copper in our existing apartments being 30 yrs plus , even with VDSL2 format , and after conditioning that pair back to bsmt , you should see 30-50Mbps possibly. But VDSL is here and it will play an ECONOMIC role in future not only in FTTN , but also in MDU deployments to come. | |
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See 6 replies to this post |
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maartena
Stacked.
Premium
join:2002-05-10
Orange, CA | And in 2010.... RoadRunner will still be 5 Mbps down and a whopping 384k up in Southern California.....  | |
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| 
TechieZero
Tools Are Using Me
Premium
join:2002-01-25
Wesley Chapel, FL | Re: And in 2010.... LOL 384k? I was lucky to get over 50k up when I had RR. I am sure it will be the same 10 years from now. | |
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| | grandpinaple
join:2006-01-03
New York, NY | Re: And in 2010.... Are you getting KB and kb confused? Roadrunner is solid 384kbps or 44KBps | |
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xdeadhead
220, 221, Whatever It Takes.
Premium
join:2000-11-08
Mechanicsburg, PA | fish story..... the fish was HOW big?
--
I am not herbert. | |
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Verizon 100Mbps VDSL?
Jeeeeeeeeez!?!?
