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Verizon: 60% of New FiOS Users Sign Up For 50 Mbps or Faster
While First FiOS Market (Dallas) Now Sees 50% Penetration
by Karl Bode 08:02AM Thursday May 23 2013
Speaking at the J.P. Morgan Global Technology, Media and Telecom Conference earlier this month, Verizon CFO Fran Shammo stated that the company's earliest FiOS markets are now reaching penetration targets and that most of their new customers are signing up for faster speeds. According to Shammo, 60% of new FiOS Internet subscribers added in the first quarter chose Quantum speeds of 50/25 Mbps or faster. He also stated that Dallas, Verizon's first FiOS launch market, is now reaching 50% penetration. Previous Verizon CEO Ivan Seidenberg once suggested he'd wanted to see 40% penetration in most existing markets before continuing FiOS expansion. Subsequent CEOs (and Shammo) have made it pretty clear that another big FiOS expansion push will probably never happen.

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LTE4LIFE

join:2013-02-28

How about higher datacaps for HomeFusion?!?

Hey Fran Shammo... (name seems to be fitting to him being a SHAM)..

How about bumping up your HomeFusion users to higher data packages than just a top tier of only having 30GB.. 75GB would be a nice bump for me and keep me at the $140 a month price range that I was hoping would be what I would pay each month..

But since signing up for HomeFusion in January, every bill has been over $200 a month due to overage fees.. Go 10GB over and you've spent $100 plus applicable taxes..

HomeFusion is marketed as a residential broadband solution.. so why does it have such a low data allowance??? It's not a SmartPhone. It's a fixed product that is attached to the home..

Oh well.. just thought I'd rant.. You would think HomeFusion would be one of Verizon's boasted new products.. Hardly ever hear anything about it...
Expand your moderator at work

88615298
Premium
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness

Re: How about higher datacaps for HomeFusion?!?

Homefusion caps are similar to satellite which are their main competition.

Homefusion uses the same frequencies as cellphone on it's 4G LTE network. And LTE is very limited in how much bandwidth it can provide. Verizon currently uses 10 MHz for downlink and that means a max of 150 Mbps that can be share among ALL users on a cell tower sector( each tower has 3 sectors ). Since a sectors can have as many as 400 connections do the math.

Now when Verizon starts getting more spectrum, deploying it, upgrading to LTE Advanced reframing 1x and 3G to LTE and deploying mini cells then caps will see significant increases. But we are talking 8-10 years away. Though caps will probably rise a bit before then.
LTE4LIFE

join:2013-02-28

Re: How about higher datacaps for HomeFusion?!?

effin 8-10 years to do something that would take 2 years at the most if they got their asses on it and started doing it now.. this just tells me that all the BS about we being in a economic recovery is a complete lie.

There should be massive infrastructure projects going on right now. Start planting the fiber and erecting towers to give people jobs!!! Don't have the money?? Fire up the damn printing presses and print more.. It seems to work quite well for the banks..

If they really wanted to, both major telecoms and even including Google Fiber could have this entire nation covered in fiber to either the node or home in 5 years.. There's absolutely no damn excuse for this..
jorcmg

join:2002-10-24
USA

Yep

They are saying and doing what their investors (owners) want.

Welcome to capitalism.

88615298
Premium
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness

Re: Yep

said by jorcmg:

They are saying and doing what their investors (owners) want.

Welcome to capitalism.

For the record FiOS is 100% owned by Verizon. Homefusion is part of Verizon Wireless which is 55% owned by Verizon and 45% owned by Vodophone. It sort of like how people think Time Warner and Time Warner Cable are the same company and they are not.
jagged

join:2003-07-01
Boynton Beach, FL

Re: Yep

You didn't get it. Jorcmg was referring to the shareholders who own Verizon stock. Stock owners are the company owners and to whom Verizon has fiduciary duties to perform well every quarter.

The JP Morgan tech conference is where the important shareholders and the analysts meet company bosses and get to talk

88615298
Premium
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness

Re: Yep

said by jagged:

You didn't get it. Jorcmg was referring to the shareholders who own Verizon stock.

I get it just fine. I'm just correcting the misconception that FiOS and Verizon Wireless are run 100% by the same company. They aren't.

tshirt
Premium
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Comcast
said by jagged:

... Stock owners are the company owners and to whom Verizon has fiduciary duties to perform well every quarter....

...has fiduciary duties to return the best value.
Verizon management COULD choose a longer time line than 90 days.
It is actually companies that make money based on trades (like JP Morgan) that push the short term thinking.
jorcmg

join:2002-10-24
USA

Re: Yep

The stakeholders are at the wheel. The pie is divided as they see fit. BTW...if anyone is interested in engineering and infrastructure see here.

»www.king5.com/news/local/Report- ··· pt=hp_t3

karpodiem
Hail to The Victors
Premium
join:2008-05-20
Detroit, MI

Again, this is why Google will deploy fiber

Also, see the carriers 'toll free' approach to traffic 'management'. And with respect to Verizon not expanding Fios? Good. Just makes it easier for Google to deploy in areas where there is no Fios offering.

Google's entire business model depends on a free and open internet. If they have to mortgage the company the to put up the capital, they will. And Karl, Google is not like Microsoft. Two completely different cultures. Couldn't be more different actually, I have a handful of friends who work as engineers in different groups and we've talked about this. And Larry & Sergey have quite a few years left walking this Earth, so I don't see this changing anytime soon.
silbaco
Premium
join:2009-08-03
USA

1 recommendation

Re: Again, this is why Google will deploy fiber

And why would Google deploy to areas where Verizon refused to deploy FiOS? Verizon didn't deploy in areas they felt would be unprofitable. Google has been cherry picking just as bad, if not worse. If they can't make their quota, they won't deploy.

karpodiem
Hail to The Victors
Premium
join:2008-05-20
Detroit, MI

Re: Again, this is why Google will deploy fiber

I can think of numerous geographic areas that Google could deploy fiber to that would be profitable. Chicago, metro-Detroit, Minneapolis, Madison, Nashville, Atlanta, etc...

Corehhi

join:2002-01-28
Bluffton, SC
Reviews:
·Hargray Cable

Re: Again, this is why Google will deploy fiber

said by karpodiem:

I can think of numerous geographic areas that Google could deploy fiber to that would be profitable. Chicago, metro-Detroit, Minneapolis, Madison, Nashville, Atlanta, etc...

Way to pick some violent areas. If I was any company I would stay away from metro-Detroit and Chicago for sure, those places are just too violent and not worth doing business with.

djrobx
Premium
join:2000-05-31
Valencia, CA
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·VOIPO

1 recommendation

said by silbaco:

And why would Google deploy to areas where Verizon refused to deploy FiOS? Verizon didn't deploy in areas they felt would be unprofitable. Google has been cherry picking just as bad, if not worse. If they can't make their quota, they won't deploy.

There are plenty of areas that probably Verizon might have selected for FiOS, but Verizon was not the ILEC in that territory. Google could go after AT&T U-verse or CenturyLink's markets.
--
AT&T U-Hearse - RIP Unlimited Internet 1995-2011
Rethink Billable.
mgamer20o0

join:2003-12-01
Norwalk, CA

1 recommendation

dont get it

i want to know if or when they will break even on the fios build.

once LTE network is built then what. it seems stupid not to build out fiber. it will make them money for years to come.

cableties
Premium
join:2005-01-27

Shammo Wow?

Had to say it...

Wait. 50% penetration in their FIRST market and its 2013??

"Penetration for FiOS Internet, launched in August 2004, exceeded 35 percent in Texas as of June 30, 2007."

So it took SIX YEARS to get another 15% ??? Shammo Wow, the math is boggling!
--
Splat

logikall

@verizon.net

Re: Shammo Wow?

it took comcast and time warner 40 years to make it to 80+ percent in monopoly areas so 50% in a competitive market takes time DOH

said by cableties:

Had to say it...

Wait. 50% penetration in their FIRST market and its 2013??

"Penetration for FiOS Internet, launched in August 2004, exceeded 35 percent in Texas as of June 30, 2007."

So it took SIX YEARS to get another 15% ??? Shammo Wow, the math is boggling!

LTE4LIFE

join:2013-02-28

Re: Shammo Wow?

40 years you say?? Comcast and Time Warner didn't even really get started with broadband until the late 90's. It was then when they started to make a name for themselves.
FloridaBoy

join:2009-06-22
Bradenton, FL

Re: Shammo Wow?

LTE, I think he was talking about their main business model, cable TV.

guppy_fish
Premium
join:2003-12-09
Lakeland, FL
kudos:4

Could be 100% wouldn't make any difference

Fios could be 100% market Penetration, Verizon isn't putting another dime in restarting the expansion if FIOS
silbaco
Premium
join:2009-08-03
USA

Re: Could be 100% wouldn't make any difference

They could eventually. But they are in no hurry because as we have seen, they are making hardly any profit off of FiOS.

guppy_fish
Premium
join:2003-12-09
Lakeland, FL
kudos:4

Re: Could be 100% wouldn't make any difference

FIOS is profitable, its wireline ( POTS ) that is killing them

tshirt
Premium
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Comcast

Re: Could be 100% wouldn't make any difference

said by guppy_fish:

FIOS is profitable, its wireline ( POTS ) that is killing them

Umm, FIOS IS a WIRELINE technology.
And overbuilding brings the long term investment of an entirely new plant, vs their existing copper that has only the cost of maintaince (not that expensive on the short term, near the cost of the new plant over 20 years)
EVEN Frontier would jump on the fiber bandwagon, if they could get a 100% take rate guaranteed, and investors would bring money in wheelbarrows for such an opportunity.

88615298
Premium
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness
said by guppy_fish:

Fios could be 100% market Penetration, Verizon isn't putting another dime in restarting the expansion if FIOS

if they could count on 100% penetration they would be stupid NOT to expand FiOS.

N3OGH
Yo Soy Col. "Bat" Guano
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
kudos:2

Re: Could be 100% wouldn't make any difference

All this talk of penetration.

The Internet is real all about Pr0n

Pr0n, Pr0n, Pr0n....
--
Petty people are disproportionally corrupted by petty power
tanzam75

join:2012-07-19
said by 88615298:

if they could count on 100% penetration they would be stupid NOT to expand FiOS.

Indeed.

The problem is that they won't see 100% in any location that has a cable competitor. After all, cable doesn't see 100% even though it is notably faster than ADSL2. There will always be some room for an inferior solution to take share by aggressive pricing.

Best-case scenario for Verizon in a duopoly (overbuild) scenario is that they swap market shares with the cableco. Medium-case scenario is that they split the market evenly with the cableco. Worst-case scenario is that they don't get to a 50/50 split.

jmn1207
Premium
join:2000-07-19
Ashburn, VA
kudos:1

Options

Well gee, when it costs $54.99 for 3 Mbps/1 Mbps speeds with an expensive voice service or $64.99 for 75 Mbps/35Mbps with voice service, how many would seriously consider the option of the slower speed?

»verizonspecials.com/verizon-fios ··· t#prices

After the hidden fees and taxes, what is an extra $10 in a $125+ bill each month when compared to the performance improvements?

There really is not much of a choice, and Verizon is simply steering their customers to the only sane option available to them, and the only thing Verizon wants to sell.
tmc8080

join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY
Reviews:
·Optimum Online
·ooma
·Verizon FiOS

same mix

Verizon shares it's footprint with at least 3 companies.. the primary of those being Comcast, Time Warner and Cablevision. Most of the others aren't worth mentioning since the footprint either doesn't have FIOS or customers have long since given up on the hopes of real competition... unless they can get a google to come to town (doubtful).

While it's quite possible to see 50% market share in the Comcast geography, it's less likely they're getting 50% in the NY metro market, that is unless customers are seeing raw deals from the cable companies. Cable companies have scaled back promotions & retentions.. this could end up hurting them in the long run as it costs several hundred dolllars to reclaim that lost customer once they've gone. In addition to any profits lost once the revenue is gone.

Outside promotion OOL boost is now going to cost $69.90 standalone.. Verizon has 50/25 for $15 more month to month.. only in contract do they match the price (over 2 years).. that's not much of an incentive. IMO, $70 is more than enough for 50 megabits, actually it's too much for a stand alone svc. So much for getting anywhere near $1 PER MEGABIT.

I miss competition. Seems like I'll have to leave cablevision to maybe get back that $44.90 price again.. Hmm.. how many months does it take? You have to do a spreadsheet just to figure out if it's worth it taking into account all the costs including a service call visit.
BiggA
Premium
join:2005-11-23
EARTH

Re: same mix

I'm paying about $1/megabit on Comcast with Blast!
tanzam75

join:2012-07-19
said by tmc8080:

While it's quite possible to see 50% market share in the Comcast geography, it's less likely they're getting 50% in the NY metro market, that is unless customers are seeing raw deals from the cable companies.

In about 10% of Verizon's Northeastern footprint, they're actually competing with two cablecos -- the incumbent and an overbuilder.

For example, RCN has overbuilt parts of New York City. But Verizon cannot just cherry-pick the non-RCN areas. The terms of Verizon's franchise agreement requires it to wire up all of NYC.

Verizon is going to have a very hard time getting to 50% when it's splitting a market three ways.

••••••
pittpete1

join:2009-06-12

Get rid of Mr. Wireless

Mr. Wireless McAdams is loving the short term gains and is just preparing and loading up his golden parachute with as much cash as he can.
tanzam75

join:2012-07-19

Completing the FiOS build-out

A couple of very interesting tidbits from Fran Shammo's remarks:

(1) Verizon initially committed to 18 million homes, but they will finish their build at about 19 million homes, due to new construction over the past 7 years.

(2) Beyond that, they will probably spend another $150 million to expand FiOS "a quarter of a mile to a mile down the street" to pick up small businesses that barely missed out on the initial FiOS build.

This is cherry-picking to the max. They just want to run a line right down Main Street, pick up most of the doctors, dentists, florists, restaurants. They'll serve houses that they pass along the way, but they're not going to do any more expansion.

Note that Verizon is already at 17.8 million homes passed. And $150 million is nothing compared to the overall price of the build. At the current rate of build-out, they'll be done by the end of 2014, if not sooner.