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Verizon Accused of Lagging on NYC FiOS Promises
Promised 100% Coverage by 2014, and That's Likely Not Happening
by Karl Bode 04:15PM Wednesday May 01 2013
Back in 2008 Verizon negotiated a closed-door agreement with NYC mayor Mike Bloomberg that agreed to wire 100% of the city with FiOS by 2014 -- sort of. Fine print in the deal allows Verizon to back away from that promise if they pay a few small fines and/or aren't seeing the kind of TV subscriber uptake they'd like. It's now 2013 and Verizon has refused to offer any hard numbers on how far along in that goal they are -- but if you live in NYC and have been waiting for FIOS (particularly in outer boroughs), you know that the number of unserved apartments remains substantial.

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NYC Mayoral candidate and Public Advocate Bill de Blasio last week took aim at Verizon in a press statement and fiber availability fact sheet (pdf), accusing Verizon of failing to deliver on their deployment promises. de Blasio took data from the New York State Office of Information Technology Services to make the claims:
quote:
As a benchmark, the contract required the company to reach more than three-quarters of City residents by the end of 2012, but according to data released through the New York State Office of Information Technology Services, only half of New York City’s 3.4 million housing units had access to fiber broadband services at year’s end—putting the company far behind schedule. Brooklyn and the Bronx lagged furthest behind, with only 40 percent and 46 percent of household having access to fiber, respectively.
As you might expect, Verizon is denying that they're behind schedule but won't offer specifics, pointing out that they only promised they'd "pass" homes (fiber simply needs to run in the street outside), not necessarily "serve" them. The company also appears to be blaming landlords for any hold ups in deployments:
quote:
The franchise agreement governs Verizon's wiring to the exterior of buildings, not inside them. Verizon needs permission from building owners to gets its fiber-optic cable inside, so residents can begin receiving service. Sometimes that can be difficult to obtain, and in any event, it is out of the city's hands, which is why the franchise agreement does not hold Verizon to a schedule on that, sources said.
This isn't the first time that Verizon has accused New York City landlords of holding up FiOS installs. Verizon filed a complaint with the New York Public Service Commission back in January that claimed some landlords were blocking access to buildings. While it's likely true that some landlords are causing headaches, State law prohibits landlords from interfering with the install of services, so it's unlikely this is something a majority of landlords are willing to engage in.

More likely, Verizon is exercising its rights in the fine print of their agreement with Bloomberg to play fast and loose with actual service statistics, and people in NYC are only just starting to notice. At the end of the day, Verizon is refusing to specifically state how many New York City residents can actually get FiOS because that end number is going to be a far cry from the 100% served goal many assumed Verizon agreed to. You can be sure Verizon tries to blame someone other than themselves for failing to deliver FiOS to most of NYC, despite the fact they signed a contract knowing full well they'd never have to.

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rossies

join:2007-08-06
Tarpon Springs, FL

Map

Wow. Didn't realize there were so many low-income folks living at JFK Airport.

loli
Premium
join:2002-08-26
South Richmond Hill, NY

2 recommendations

Re: Map

said by rossies:

Wow. Didn't realize there were so many low-income folks living at JFK Airport.

So many delays at that airport that people have settled down.
Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:1
well if that includes areas around JFK, It is obvious that rich people are not going to live right by an airport that is one of the busiest in the world.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports
josephf

join:2009-04-26

New York Should Revoke Verizon's Franchise

New York should revoke Verizon's franchise on the basis of Verizon's failure to provide the coverage they agreed to in exchange for the franchise.

Verizon's franchise isn't unlimited and irrevocable.
Taget

join:2004-07-29

Breaking promises? Never!

»www.newnetworks.com/bellbroadban···res.html

Now of course this ignores the fact that state and federal governments have given billions of dollars in grants, approvals for surcharges, regulatory conessions, and other considerations in exchange for promises involving fiber optics and rural broadband since the 1990s.
pittpete1

join:2009-06-12

Good ole Lowell

Good ole Lowell, at it again.
If it was up to him the whole city would be wireless.
Imagine trying to watch 2 or 3 HD TV's at the same time while being capped.
Cha-ching.......
Gluttony plain and simple

Pathfinder
Dazed Confused
Premium
join:2000-03-26
Mount Vernon, NY
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

State law regarding services.

said by article :
While it's likely true that some landlords are causing headaches, State law prohibits landlords from interfering with the install of services, so it's unlikely this is something a majority of landlords are willing to engage in.
Is there any links to that? Does this include non-regulated services such as FIOS? I know for a fact that landlords are holding it up in places until their palms get sufficiently greased.

nycdave
Premium,MVM
join:1999-11-16
Melville, NY
kudos:16

Re: State law regarding services.

Bingo.

Unless you have actually worked in NYC and dealt with some building managers/landlords, you have no idea how difficult it is to gain access into a building - let alone install new service....
BiggA

join:2005-11-23
EARTH

Re: State law regarding services.

At some point, which may have already occurred, FIOS will be available in many buildings, and the idiotic landlords who don't have FIOS wired will lose prospective tenants because of it. The landlords who know what they are doing were lining up to be first to get FIOS.

rit56

join:2000-12-01
New York, NY
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
My landlord owns 30 residential buildings in Manhattan, mostly downtown on the east side. He signed a letter of agreement with Verizon 2 years ago for ALL his proprieties. To date Verizon has wired NONE. Verizon has chosen to NOT wire any of these buildings. The only building they wired on my block was a complete demolition and rebuild. They consider my block wired in this bullshit survey. One building, 10 units are covered. 39 buildings are not. Now for all non NYC residents these 39 buildings are between just 2 Avenues. A small area. In Verizon speak the block is wired.
People who don't live in NYC and have a conservative/pro business slant should not comment on what they don't know. The grease the palms or greedy landlords is an old tired bullshit excuse.
The few buildings in question I know about are commercial buildings in the financial district (Wall Street) that were creamed by Hurricane Sandy and as "businessman" they don't want to switch to fiber because it's way more expensive for them than their old copper systems. And don't start with the fiber optic is so much cheaper stuff. Verizon way overcharges for their services once they have their fiber in place and there is no alternative. With the old copper they have way different plans..
BiggA

join:2005-11-23
EARTH

Re: State law regarding services.

With fiber, there is more competition. If you don't like Verizon, you can still go back to TWC. With copper, it's not competitive, so you're stuck with TWC. Of course larger businesses are subscribing to business class fiber service anyways, which has little to do with POTS, FIOS, or HFC.

Packeteers
Premium
join:2005-06-18
Forest Hills, NY
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable

4 edits
A. your landlord is probably bullshitting you - most landlords and coop boards placate tenents, since they don't want to deal with the indirect cost and aggravation of a second building wiring distribution plant.

B. if your landlord got 50% of each building's tenants to sign a petition requesting FiOS, that would light a fire under Verison's provisioning department much more than any right of way agreement.

from my experience with securing such a petition in my own Coop, people will not sign unless the current provider service is consistently fair-poor, and/or Verizon offers a cut rate discount to any building subscriber - which they won't. in my Coop the TWC service is good (despite it's 20 year old wiring plant) and we all get a $10 discount off any plan, so even if FiOS dug a trench right past our building, I doubt we will bother getting FiOS unless Verizon is breaking down our doors to get in - which they won't.

my Coop went through the exact same drama 10 years ago when RCN dug a trench past us to light up a 50% committed building a few blocks away. back then TWC was expensive compared to RCN, and RoadRunner service was worse than aDSL - but we still could not get half the building to sign up. I like to think after this RCN incident (TWC knew we were soliciting RCN because documents filed over wiring tray conflicts) that TWC no longer takes my building for granted.
BiggA

join:2005-11-23
EARTH

Re: State law regarding services.

How stupid are people. FIOS is... FIOS. It's amazing. TWC is crap in comparison.

In terms of RCN, how do your franchise agreements work? I'm not 100% sure, but as far as I can tell, here in CT, if a second provider gets a franchise license (this has been done by the municipality of Groton for TVC, which was recently sold to private investors), they have to serve 100% of that franchise area, just like the incumbent. In the case of TVC, that meant Groton, Ledyard, Stonington, and North Stonington. I haven't seen anywhere in this franchise area that can't get either Comcast or TVC, including all the apartment buildings. They both run their plant to the demarc point, and then they can just swap the cable off to the individual unit, at least that's how I understand it. It shouldn't be that hard for a large MDU to run a second cable plant up the middle of the building to where the demarcs are, so that they could be swapped over.

FIOS is a little different because it is fiber, and telco TV, so I don't believe that it would have to serve 100% anywhere. I think AT&T got some sort of waiver based on the technology, since U-Verse is too pathetic to be able to serve 100%, although I kind of wish the DPUC had regulated them as cable and told them 100% or nothing.

Pathfinder
Dazed Confused
Premium
join:2000-03-26
Mount Vernon, NY
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
My landlord told us the same thing. Verizon had no written agreement and couldn't proceed. Yes I live about 1/4 mile from NYC but I did grow up there and spent over 36 years working there. AND working with landlords and tenants.
If you believe that landlords don't have their hands out, I have a bridge to sell.

charly

@optonline.net

not surprised

if you check on the verizon trucks doing installation for the last 2 weeks on my block at east new york ave between brooklyn and new york, in Brooklyn, you will see why they are behind on schedule. the guys come early in the morning, leave the truck on the whole time, they seat inside the trucks messaging and web surfing. before lunch time they come out and work for half hour and then the go have lunch, after that they are to tired to go back to work so they stay in the trucks till the end of the day. i have all on video.
jasondean

join:2009-08-28
Brooklyn, NY

Re: not surprised

I'd love to see that video!!!

Seriously, I applaud someone calling Verizon out on their failed promise but I bet part of their claim about landlords is accurate. Maybe someone could publish a list of the buildings refusing to permit Verizon access either because they want exorbitant fees or the landlord is getting a kickback from TWC/Cablevision? If nothing else, I'd love the option of FiOS just so I could call up TWC and tell them I'm switching and see how quickly my bill drops!

Any chance FiOS could install the fiber through my air conditioner sleeve and the box inside my spare room/office?

charly

@optonline.net

Re: not surprised

wow, today i'm very surprised, one of the guys is working for over 2 hours now!!!! haha!! but he disapeared for half hour and came back, lol!

intok

join:2012-03-15
Post it or it didn't happen.
sgthomas

join:2003-02-27
Santa Monica, CA
I HAVE to check in on THIS one!

My son went to work as a lineman for Verizon when he was 18. He'd come home and tell me that it seemed he was making 'enemies', so, of course I asked him why. He said they didn't like him because he enjoyed his work. He was told they didn't want him around because it made them look bad...and for the same reasons cited above!

Don't need a video to know it's true...I saw it myself, and this was many years ago in Santa Monica, California. I'm sure it's no different anywhere.

PS...my son went into business for himself and has been very successful!
--
To be of words & not of deeds is like a garden full of weeds...

Simba7
I Void Warranties

join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT

A Telco not keeping their promise?

Say it isn't so!

..unless you include them increasing their rates and offering less while bashing anyone that wants to start their own project and suing them the entire way until they give up.

..then they buy the failed project dirt-freaking-cheap and claim that municipal ISP's are a failure and they should be in control of everything.
Skippy25

join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO

Re: A Telco not keeping their promise?

I was just getting ready to post the same thing!

Say it isn't so! The world has clearly been knocked off it's axis and is about to end.

Surely there is no way in the world that a telecom company would commit to something and then fail to meet those commitments.

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD! WHAT ABOUT THE CHILDREN!!

jfleni

@bhn.net

Re: A Telco not keeping their promise?

In Europe and Asia (and in good ol' Kansas City right here in USA) special machines run fiber through the sewers and other underground facilities, without digging anything up. Amsterdam has multiple providers done in the same way.

New Yorkers could have a choice of a half-dozen or more good competitive providers, all paying fees to the city and providing choice to consumers; naturally Moneybags Mikey would not like that kind of "free enterprise." But he's going to be gone very soon. How nice it would be if his demise included the extinction of Verizon lies and deception too, and real choice for New Yorkers.

thender
Screen tycoon
Premium
join:2009-01-01
Brooklyn, NY
kudos:1

1 edit

1 recommendation

Landlords can be problematic in NYC.

In a big complex, there may be no trouble getting FIOS installed

Now let's move onto all those tiny brownstones and shingle shacks that got passed down to someone who lives off the rent and does nothing with their life but collect a check. Many probably throw Verizon's requests in the trash because it requires they actually lift a finger for nothing in return. Or rthey don't even get it to begin with. They know there's a violation when they're subpoenad to show up in court. You New Yorkers know exactly who I am talking about.

A vast majority of NYC's apartments are dumpy walk up buildings, a majority of whose tenants do not choose an apartment based on FIOS availability. Some care, but most don't. It's not like you send a fax, get a reply back in 1-3 business days, enter building and install. You have to track these fuckers down to get anything done, even if it's a legal requirement. Much less something as silly as faster internet service. Half of them don't even like having to show up to get a check, much less DO WORK..... and they show up, and they do the work for what? To make money. No. So you can enter their building and put shit in it, that doesn't make them money.

That's how the LANDLORD sees it. I'm not saying it's right, I'm saying that's the mentality you have to realize you are dealing with if you expect to be successful.

It's true Verizon may be yanking our chain, and I am pissed that my store can't go over 3 mbps DSL with FIOS vans advertising two blocks away from me. At the same time... who the f#&k else is trying to wire the entire city with fiber? I don't see anyone else.
--
Macbook Screen Repair



Macbook LCDs for sale.
BiggA

join:2005-11-23
EARTH

Re: Landlords can be problematic in NYC.

Small buildings generally don't really need any landlord interaction- there's no equipment to be installed in the building, so you just do an aerial, and drill through the outside. I guess technically that requires landlord permission, but at least around here, no one seems to care, the cable and satellite companies just wire whatever to whatever. For simple drop the fiber and connect, Verizon should just go and do it. If the Landlord is that lazy, they won't complain.

I'd have to say it probably is incredibly difficult for Verizon to wire NYC given how dense, and how much of the infrastructure is underground, but OTOH, it is an incredibly big and prosperous market that only has one other competitor, and the number of subs per cable mile (so to speak) is completely unparalleled anywhere else in the US, other than a few blocks here or there in major cities.

carlNYC

@myvzw.com

The lardlords are a problem

But Verizon employees are too. These dudes park their new gigantic trucks doing nothing in a corner. Five years into the franchise agreement and I bet only 40% of the city is wired.

Verizon CEO is a wireless guy and you can bet that he is behind of the slowdown. Two years ago empire city subway the company that lay the conduit for the fiber was very aggressive around the city then the Verizon trucks came and lay the fiber and bang access granted to the buildings in not time. Now I noticed something after Verizon bought the AWS spectrum from the cable companies they slowed down the rollout even in cities with a franchise agreement. Hmmmmn there is company called time Warner in NYC that is not concerned about competition because I believed they had direct words from Verizon that the complete wiring of the city will not happen.

When you have a problem with Twc about billing or service they don't seem concern about your anger because they know I will not have a choice of dumping them unless I move to one of the few buildings with FIOS. That sale of the AWS spectrum to Verizon came with hidding clauses which beside not expanding FIOS into new cities you also must slow the rollout in current cities with franchise agreements.

Bloomberg doesn't care as long as his new tech business sector in the city is wired with fiber not residents.
tmc8080

join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY
Reviews:
·ooma
·Optimum Online
·Verizon FiOS

more likely

it's more likely that they have enough market share due to lack of competition from Time Warner, Cablevision & RCN as to not do any more. some of these locations are in poor neighborhoods in Brooklyn and upper Manhattan where consumers can't afford to pay Verizon $150 a month in revenue..

that said, I'd welcome $70 Google fiber anytime. That's what Cablevision's boost plus will cost out of contract/discounts. $69.95 which is to say, if they don't throw you a bone, they're throwing you off to the competition.. Yay, more upstream..

HardwareGeek

join:2003-11-15
Brooklyn, NY

Re: more likely

Verizon is always in my neighborhood trying to get landlord permission they go door to door to door asking for landlord permission to be able to install fios. Lucky for me my landlord allows them but others have not and my neighbor is depressed I get super fast feeds and he is stuck with either DSL or Cable.

Whats funny Verizon is allowed to install DSL just not FIOS because of the ONT.
--
Email/MSN: Michael at hardwaregeeks.comAIM: MikeR35292
tmc8080

join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY
Reviews:
·ooma
·Optimum Online
·Verizon FiOS

Re: more likely

said by HardwareGeek:

Verizon is always in my neighborhood trying to get landlord permission they go door to door to door asking for landlord permission to be able to install fios. Lucky for me my landlord allows them but others have not and my neighbor is depressed I get super fast feeds and he is stuck with either DSL or Cable.

Whats funny Verizon is allowed to install DSL just not FIOS because of the ONT.

If the building is not too far away, you could share the network over ether WIFI or a LOONG weatherproof Ethernet cable.. (don't cheap out, use the good stuff)

kamm

join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY

VZ is simply lying...

...period. I live in Park Slope and it's STILL not available in more than a handful of buildings, THEY SIMPLY WON'T TALK TO YOU IF YOU ARE A BROWNSTONE, PERIOD.

Verizon = LYING SACK OF SH!T

VZ ROW GUY

@optonline.net

Re: VZ is simply lying...

Here's the problem. Each and every block has to have an Entry Point called a block entrance. In PS it gets complicated because 1. it's mostly historical and VZ can not dig he street. If existing conduits are bad there is no way to serve the block. Almost all blocks in PS are closed...meaning the on;y way to access the rear poles are thru apartments...another problem. Once in the fun starts...not everyone will allow VZ to attach to the pole in their yard...without an access permit work stops. VZ will not trespass.
Once the infrastructure is built then the fun starts. You want service? It's on the pole right? How does your Landlord feel? VZ has to loop wires, drill holes, attach terminals, power up and ground in the basement....landlords have to OK all this. Tell the landlord to sign the papers and it will go faster.

kamm

join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY

Re: VZ is simply lying...

The problem with the story is that EXISTING VERIZON_SERVED houses and buildings STILL CANNOT GET FIOS, try it online, VZ simply don't even list it as an option when you check the address.

Not the cable guys but VZ as a corporation is a lying sack of shit, seriously. I hope the next mayor of NYC will SUE THE FUCKERS.
--
said by bicker:

Waaaa waaaa waaaa. You just want what you want and don't care to factor in what is right or true. Your perspectives are un-American, and deserve far more ridicule than I'm prepared to pile on them.

PsychoStreak

join:2000-06-27
Brooklyn, NY

BS Statistics

The stat on the SFU completion percentage in Brooklyn is an outright lie.

Verizon's trucks were on my street 2 days ago running fiber down the block. Only instead of doing it through the backyards where their copper lines are, they're using the same poles as the power lines and cable lines, which are in front along the (city owned) sidewalk. Seems they're wiring up the entire neighborhood the same way, and not bothering to use the right of ways. It's definitely going quickly, as the poles offer nice straight runs, but until they start connecting that magic cable to peoples homes, it's nothing but a sham to let them say they're on schedule.

I've been on their FIOS waiting list since they opened it, and have yet to see any correspondence from Verizon. We own the house, there's no landlord to obstruct them in any way.

Verizon's legal team is probably working overtime to somehow make "availability" not equal actually offering service to anyone in the areas where they've run cable. Because I've yet to find a single person who's been contacted.

It really ticks me off because the only other alternatives for broadband in the area are Cablevision (I'll go back to dialup before ever dealing with them again) or DSL of questionable speed from Verizon. With the Megapath buyout of Covad, I don't think there are any other ISPs that offer DSL here besides Verizon anymore.

It really highlights how stock price trumps everything, including sales and revenue. I've been waiting for years for Verizon to offer me FiOS in exchange for money, but they've dragged their asses on it like they did with DSL before that. What sane business ignores people willing to give them money on a monthly basis?

Using their wireless broadband is fast, but tiny data caps, high prices, overage fees and home usage don't fly with me at all, especially on a weather sensitive connection.

At this point, I refuse to get my hopes up about them actually offering FiOS, despite the fiber cable not 10 feet from my front door. It's like they're taunting me with it.
--
Only now do you realize the depth of my insanity...