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Verizon Adds 197,000 FiOS Users In Q4
Loses 145,000 DSL Connections
Verizon has released their fourth quarter 2010 earnings this morning, which indicate that Verizon added 197,000 net FiOS Internet and 182,000 net FiOS TV customer additions on the quarter, bring their total to 4.1 million total FiOS Internet customers and 3.5 million total FiOS TV customers. The growth in FiOS helped offset Verizon's loss of 145,000 DSL connections. As of the end of 2010, FiOS passes 15.6 million homes, or about 60% of Verizon's network footprint after the Frontier deal. In wireless, Verizon added 955,000 total net customers, bringing their total to 94.1 million total customers using 102.2 million total connections. Like DSL, traditional landline services continued to die off, with the company losing 8.2% of POTs lines year over year reducing their total line total to 26 million. Verizon reported a fourth-quarter profit of $2.64 billion, up from $617 million a year earlier, with financials helped slightly by some very creative accounting related to significant pension losses.
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kingdome74
Let's Go Orange
Premium Member
join:2002-03-27
Syracuse, NY

kingdome74

Premium Member

They Can Add One More

In a few weeks I'll be moving to an area that has Verizon FiOS and I will be happily dumping Time Warner. It's going to be exciting to live in an area that has actual competition.
jjeffeory
jjeffeory
join:2002-12-04
Bloomington, IN

jjeffeory

Member

Re: They Can Add One More

....and another. We're planning on closing on a house and getting Fios very soon. Goodbye Comcrap! HAHA!!!!!

N3OGH
Yo Soy Col. "Bat" Guano
Premium Member
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs

N3OGH

Premium Member

Re: They Can Add One More

Another vote for the Fios. I've had it a year and a half now, and I wouldn't have anything else in the house.

I have dealings with Comcast as well, they are our business provider at work, and being the Admin, I have to talk with them from time to time. They have a decent product too, but Fios really is the best thing around....
jjeffeory
jjeffeory
join:2002-12-04
Bloomington, IN

1 edit

jjeffeory

Member

Re: They Can Add One More

Agreed.
I've had Fios in the past. Their internet product is the best out there. Their TV pq is the best PERIOD. They're cheaper than U-Verse (SoCal), which I've had as well recently...

We have Comcast (DC) at one place, and the internet service has been excellent generally, but with several outages over time. One was last week and lasted for 13 hours. Comcast's TV PQ is lacking and their prices keep going up. Their guide isn't the best. The channel location and lineup is maddening, especially after my exposure to all the other companies who have channel locations that are intuitive... Their DVR is limited in size and doesn't figure out duplicate shows very well. The Motorola unit we have is pretty, but the HD is too small.
U-Verse data service was excellent. The Motorola DVR was top notch and the HD was large. The service was up for 1 year straight without any problems. The PQ was above average but below Fios. The price was outrageously high for all of this compared to the rest.

Now, I've had Charter ( Wisconsin & LA) and TWC ( SoCal & Central OH) too. No comparison on data speeds.
Cox ( Vegas) was ok.

I've also had DirecTV and Dish for TV...

Fios and FiosTV are the best products in their class and the price, while not the cheapest, is much better than some others in this class...
tmc8080
join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY

tmc8080

Member

cable companies on notice:

traditional phone service only now accounts for less than 25% of Verizon's business model, and yet cable company after cable company are advertising that they are competing against the OLD BUSINESS MODEL... hah!

customers (in those geographies) should put some pressure on at&t to push out more FTTP projects. Verizon is seeing quite a success with FIOS Internet. Will AT&T be content with the cable companies' disguted churn leftovers? Or do they want loyal customers... becaue the value of DSL vs docsis 2.0 isn't really want consuemrs want.. they should be getting 25+ megabits symmetric by now in entry level tiers (costing $50 or less). Not 3-24mbits above $50.
openbox9
Premium Member
join:2004-01-26
71144

openbox9

Premium Member

Re: cable companies on notice:

Take rate is still less than 25% for FiOS TV so I wouldn't paint it a total success yet. AT&T is doing a little worse with U-verse with a take rate for pay TV around 14%. We'll see how T does after the most recent quarter results are out.
said by tmc8080:

they should be getting 25+ megabits symmetric by now in entry level tiers (costing $50 or less).

And where do you get that on a broad scale?
fiberguy2
My views are my own.
Premium Member
join:2005-05-20

fiberguy2 to tmc8080

Premium Member

to tmc8080
I think you've missed the entire point. You speak from the side of a customer, and not business.

First of all, what do people like you (and Karl) consider "traditional phone service".. these terms seem to get tossed around way too easily these days. Traditional phone service as it POTS? Anything that comes to a wired phone in the house? Anything that's wired, ie: voip, pots, etc?

Anyway..

Cable has been picking up a lot of that "POTS" (MaBell) loss. Just as cable video subscribers have a long history of hating cable, there is an INCREDIBLE and much longer history of customers that hate the phone company. With that said, you are certainly not going to see many surveys coming out giving accurate accounts of what the real picture is of the telephone customer is. There are many ways to measure metrics and the data can be easily manipulated to get the desired outcome. This is really not much different than the Republicans stating, today, "The people voted loud and clean in the last election for us to repeal health care" or ".. to block don't ask don't tell" or "to cut spending" or ... insert any thing that the Republicans stand for today.

Further, you also think that the providers are out for.. well.. let me say it this way.. they're not sitting back saying "... Fiber, FTW!!!" or "The most customers, FTW!!!" ie: they want quality customers (that don't bitch and complain about deals, come and go, etc) and they want the largest profit margins they can get. A company can theoretically have less customers and be more profitable than the next who is cash or credit strapped.

The "old model" isn't yet old. Yes, more people are trending towards various ways to communicate, however, traditional phone lines are far from dead. Many of todays younglings are using wireless communications, however, many of them are not the quality customer in which I spoke of above. I don't seem to see the major cable co's complaining about revenues these days. There is DEFINITELY a market to serve that doesn't care about 25 meg service, how it gets to the house, so long as its a cheaper monthly bill. In other words, customers vary in needs and desires - they're not all thinking like you, or many of the other regulars on this site, as many people think. There's really only one person that I know is said to be made in his image..
FloridaBoy
join:2009-06-22
Bradenton, FL

FloridaBoy

Member

Question on Copper Lines

I wonder when Verizon is going to start ripping that copper out or selling it?? Surely it has to be a drain on resources.
openbox9
Premium Member
join:2004-01-26
71144

openbox9

Premium Member

Re: Question on Copper Lines

Verizon sold off several markets with plants primarily copper based. I'm sure Verizon would love to get rid of more and will do so when the opportunity arises.
jophan
Premium Member
join:2009-07-12
Jenkintown, PA

jophan to FloridaBoy

Premium Member

to FloridaBoy
Ripping out copper has two problems: first, it's expensive to move the remaining customers onto FiOS, even if they only have voice, and second, the regulators can veto copper removal because CLECs wouldn't be able to offer DSL.
JPL
Premium Member
join:2007-04-04
Downingtown, PA

1 recommendation

JPL

Premium Member

Re: Question on Copper Lines

said by jophan:

Ripping out copper has two problems: first, it's expensive to move the remaining customers onto FiOS, even if they only have voice, and second, the regulators can veto copper removal because CLECs wouldn't be able to offer DSL.

Right - they used to rip out the copper, but they no longer do. On my initial FiOS install, at my old house, they removed the copper going to the house, removed the NID, and replaced it with the ONT. On my new install (moved into a new house last April) they left the NID, along with the copper running to it, and just added the fiber and ONT.

I think they're going this route for two reasons. First, customers who have their copper ripped out feel like they've crossed that bridge and can't go back (while it's not easy to go back to copper after you have fiber, and this really doesn't make it any easier, I think there's a psychological component). Second, it's the time needed to remove the copper and the NID - it slows down the install.

AVD
Respice, Adspice, Prospice
Premium Member
join:2003-02-06
Onion, NJ

AVD

Premium Member

Re: Question on Copper Lines

I think the original thought was concerning the mile and miles of coper between the phone office and the house, not the 30' or so from the pole to the house.
JPL
Premium Member
join:2007-04-04
Downingtown, PA

JPL

Premium Member

Re: Question on Copper Lines

said by AVD:

I think the original thought was concerning the mile and miles of coper between the phone office and the house, not the 30' or so from the pole to the house.

Ah, I see. Well that will never happen. If you look at states like PA, if you move into a new residence, even if the house has fiber running to it, Verizon is required by law to allow me to get copper. Once you get fiber to your own house, going back to copper is hard, but not if you're a new resident in that house. Because of that I can't see Verizon ever getting rid of that copper. Even if every single house fed off of the office were on fiber.
Sammer
join:2005-12-22
Canonsburg, PA

Sammer

Member

Re: Question on Copper Lines

said by JPL:

said by AVD:

I think the original thought was concerning the mile and miles of coper between the phone office and the house, not the 30' or so from the pole to the house.

Ah, I see. Well that will never happen. If you look at states like PA, if you move into a new residence, even if the house has fiber running to it, Verizon is required by law to allow me to get copper. Once you get fiber to your own house, going back to copper is hard, but not if you're a new resident in that house. Because of that I can't see Verizon ever getting rid of that copper. Even if every single house fed off of the office were on fiber.

Verizon as the ILEC is required to provide a copper drop (even if Verizon removed it) in PA if the resident wants service from a CLEC where it's available. They are not required to provide Verizon service over copper in FiOS areas.

VladDracula
@sprintlink.net

VladDracula

Anon

POTS

It is not POTs as in a multiple of POT. It is a four letter acronym for Plain Old Telephone Service. Yes there is a Service part associated with copper loop analog phones as hard it is to believe :P

Packeteers
Premium Member
join:2005-06-18
Forest Hills, NY
Asus RT-AC3100
(Software) Asuswrt-Merlin

Packeteers

Premium Member

clear loss

in NYC Verizon may start losing to Wireless ISPs.
Verizon raised my DSL rate by 33% in December,
making CLEAR wireless internet a price alternate.
(not to mention a cableTV based ISP service)
Verizon is crazy to raise DSL rates in areas that
don't have their FIOS yet, but they are making a
desperate grab for profits before we cut the cord.
by the time FIOS is in my area, I'll be long loyal
to some other service, so Verizon lost me forever.

Bill Neilson
Premium Member
join:2009-07-08
Alexandria, VA

Bill Neilson

Premium Member

Very happy with my FiOS internet which

I moved places to get

kyler13
Is your fiber grounded?
join:2006-12-12
Annapolis, MD

kyler13

Member

The slow death of POTS

I wonder what the POTS losses are doing to the good ol' boy network of taxes and fees? For one, the FLSC is probably taking a huge hit. I remember 10 years ago my relatively basic $14 landline service ran me a little over $30 with about 11 taxes, fees, and surcharges. How long before they start putting their hand in the VoIP cookie jar?
juicem2
join:2006-03-05
Mastic Beach, NY

juicem2

Member

Re: The slow death of POTS

That's a good point. I expect that it will be coming very soon.
fiberguy2
My views are my own.
Premium Member
join:2005-05-20

fiberguy2 to kyler13

Premium Member

to kyler13
I've been saying this for a long time now. VoIP service - ANY SERVICE - can be taxed, after the stroke of a pen.

The city, county, state, and feds aren't going to let it go for far too long before they realize that there's gold in dem 'dar bits!

HaloFans
join:2006-12-18

2 edits

HaloFans

Member

So when's Verizon picking up FiOS development again?

Sick of waiting.

LTE seems to be the future, not FiOS.

Ready to dump this POTS POS DSL 1200/384 service. One-ring calls to voicemail problems. Slow connections. Unwillingness to upgrade to ADSL2+. Cable competitor speeds are really fast as I've benchmarked everything at a friend's house.
biochemistry
Premium Member
join:2003-05-09
92361

biochemistry

Premium Member

Re: So when's Verizon picking up FiOS development again?

How is a much slower internet service (LTE) with outrageously low caps (5 or 10 gig depending on plan) the wave of the future instead of FIOS?

HaloFans
join:2006-12-18

HaloFans

Member

Re: So when's Verizon picking up FiOS development again?

Verizon's pouring all the money in developing LTE instead of FiOS.

They even said it's a viable home broadband alternative. What a crock load of poo.

ITALIAN926
join:2003-08-16

ITALIAN926

Member

Re: So when's Verizon picking up FiOS development again?

You dont know what youre talking about, just be silent. Verizon invested like 100 Billion into FioS for the FUTURE.

HaloFans
join:2006-12-18

HaloFans

Member

Re: So when's Verizon picking up FiOS development again?

Link? Did you not read that FiOS development halted last year and as of now, Verizon only plans to complete NY because of a contract?

From all what I've been reading, Verizon plans to complete LTE by 2013 to match today's 3G map. That requires a ton of resources.
jjeffeory
jjeffeory
join:2002-12-04
Bloomington, IN

jjeffeory

Member

Re: So when's Verizon picking up FiOS development again?

They're rolling out to DC now too. They signed an agreement to do so over a period of time ( I think 5 years).
NyNexit
join:2009-11-01
Huntington, NY

NyNexit

Member

POTS

POTS lines are a regulated staple, In order to rip it out Verizon will need to clear it with regulators. (shouldn't be too hard given Verizon's tactics in the past.) Maybe they will just bundle the POTS infrastructure with all the left over debt from the company and put it on craigslist.

mushmouth
join:2001-12-13
Earth

mushmouth

Member

Re: POTS

Verizon is investing 0 dollars in the old copper plant so there must be something brewing slowly.
If your phone works you're lucky,if it kind of works that's as good as it's going to get unless someone switches to Fios or something else and you can get their line.
Contract time is coming up in Aug, with Fios moving well I think there will be some sort of extension then the s will hit the fan once franchise agreements are done.
WhatNow
Premium Member
join:2009-05-06
Charlotte, NC

WhatNow

Premium Member

Take down copper

Other then cleaning up the poles and saving on taxes it would cost more then they would make on the copper. Even crooks that still the cable find they don't make anything at the junk yard. They may pay more for the fuel to burn the insulation off the wire then the make.

They could still do the fiber and give CLECs a pseudo POTS line. The only problem is long power failures. The POTS world is disappearing at&t has already notified the FCC they want to terminate switched services sometime in the future and move everything to a ethernet based system. I think that was posted on DSLreports.

tony gee
@blackberry.net

tony gee

Anon

FIOS = Mucho dinero

Had Comcast and then Verizon FIOS. As much as I love the FIOS picture and speedy internet, their billing snafus and cruddy customer service is a major stumbling point. Comcast has crappy customer service and the picture is nowhere near as good but differences of 50 -80 bucks a month is a major deal to plenty of folks these days.
jjeffeory
jjeffeory
join:2002-12-04
Bloomington, IN

4 edits

jjeffeory

Member

Re: FIOS = Mucho dinero

Interesting that you think Fios is expensive.

My Comcast bill is ~$125/ month for 1 HDDVR TV, no HBO/SHO/Cinemax, and internet (16/1)

I had a billing snafu costing several hundreds of dollars going back a couple of years... I could only get 6 months worth of credit for their error. Gotta watch them on their price hikes. As soon as Fios is offered in DC, we'll get rid of them...

Fios costs $110 for HD (more channels including SHO and Cinemax, NO HBO), 2 STB, and faster internet ( 35/35)...
Yes, I've experienced the billing snafus, but that seems to be how they ALL work. I guess it's better to ask for forgiveness than permission!

Contrast that with my old Uverse bill, which was $185/month, but included HBO ( as well as all the other movie channels), 2 STB, and 20/2 service...

Big billing snafu at the end of the service when I moved. They screwed up the canceling order and didn't include one of the STBs in the return. I had to add that on, take a picture, etc and still had problems.
mlohrwork
join:2001-05-30
Laurel, MD

mlohrwork

Member

Verizon is killing DSL

Had fixed IP DSL from a third party Expedient. Line got noisy and expedient said that it wasn't repairable since Verizon charged them $450 fee to investigate the problem. Switched to FIOS 25/25 but it cost $104 dollars a month instead of $59 for 3/768.
chgo_man99
join:2010-01-01
Sunnyvale, CA

chgo_man99

Member

Anyone has any idea when Verizon will go all IP-based?

For now they still use QAM for their video portion except on demand?

antdude
Matrix Ant
Premium Member
join:2001-03-25
US

antdude

Premium Member

Still no Fios in my neighborhood!

They are in my city though.

kilrathi
Premium Member
join:2005-04-22
Rockaway Park, NY

kilrathi

Premium Member

Give me Verizon FIOS NOW, I am sick of time warner!

Give me Verizon FIOS NOW, I am sick of time warner!
ebubman
join:2002-01-17
Mechanicsburg, PA

ebubman

Member

new to fios

after 20+ years we dumped comcast & moved to fios. couldnt' be happier. we get more hd & faster internet for less $ than comcast.