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Verizon Adds 226k FiOS Users, Loses 165k DSL Users
As profits fall due to voluntary (and not so voluntary) layoffs

Verizon posted their third quarter earnings today, which indicated the company's net income dropped to $881 million from $1.18 billion this time last year while operating revenue dropped 3%. Why? Aside from the slightly slower-than-expected wireless growth, most of the losses came from pension settlements resulting from layoffs and voluntary departures -- of which there's been tens of thousands --as Verizon trims landline employees and shifts their focus away from rural America and copper POTS/DSL and toward FiOS and LTE.

Verizon added 997,000 total net wireless customers and 226,000 new FiOS Internet customers. Like AT&T -- Verizon now likes to bury DSL subscriber losses (165,000 losses for a 61,000 net gain) deep in their earnings announcement.

So how many of those DSL customers are migrating to FiOS? Verizon's earnings report omits this information entirely, so we asked.

"About 20-25% of our FiOS Internet net adds each quarter come from Verizon DSL customers moving up to higher FiOS Internet speeds," Verizon's Bill Kula tells us. "That's as much detail as I can provide."

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Hall
MVM
join:2000-04-28
Germantown, OH

1 recommendation

Hall

MVM

How many...

How many of those 165k DSL users they "lost" actually remained customers using FIOS ?

Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02

Karl Bode

News Guy

Re: How many...

I'm still looking.

»investor.verizon.com/

I've dropped them a line to see how many upgraded to FiOS and how many were users in unupgraded DSL markets that moved to cable. I have a feeling that if most were going FiOS, that's something they'd make clearer.

Hall
MVM
join:2000-04-28
Germantown, OH

Hall

MVM

Re: How many...

I seem to recall a Verizon story you posted a while back that talked about how Verizon was removing ALL copper to a home when they switched to FIOS. If that's still true, people can't switch to FIOS for TV and phone but keep their DSL. Their TV, phone, and internet all have to be FIOS-based.
patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY

patcat88

Member

Re: How many...

If address becomes FIOS available, you can never get Verizon DSL again. DSL becomes a grandfathered product. You can get CLEC DSL though, if you can get CLEC DSL in the first place (no RTs).

VZ wouldn't want people on $19 758k DSL anyway.

jmn1207
Premium Member
join:2000-07-19
Sterling, VA

jmn1207 to Hall

Premium Member

to Hall
I suppose it depends on the infrastructure in a given area. We still have both at our house. The POTS service is on a separate bill from our FiOS TV and Internet.
Sammer
join:2005-12-22
Canonsburg, PA

Sammer to Hall

Member

to Hall
I used to live in area that had Verizon FiOS and once FiOS was available to everyone served by that local central office Verizon DSL became a grandfathered only product for that area. Yes Verizon liked to remove the copper drop at that time but it really doesn't matter as far as CLEC DSL is concerned because Verizon isn't allowed under PA law to prevent people from signing up for CLEC DSL simply because there is no drop to the house. If the reason there is no drop is because Verizon removed the old one then that is Verizon's responsibility.
hottboiinnc4
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

hottboiinnc4

Member

Re: How many...

if VZ was smart they'd just start rebuilding their entire network to FiOS and getting rid of the copper like ATT did in many areas back when they were doing Project Lightspeed (Monroe, MI was one area they did that in), no DSL service is available and T1s are through the roof to have installed.
Bob61571
join:2008-08-08
Washington, IL

Bob61571 to Karl Bode

Member

to Karl Bode
Karl,
Did the lost 165,000 DSL customers
include all those folks(like me) that were Verizon DSL, and are now Frontier DSL (as of July 1) ???

Or, is that a separate item count?

Or, will they change the count in a future earnings period?

Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02

Karl Bode

News Guy

Re: How many...

Those were offloaded separately...new metrics like the fact FiOS now covers 60% of FiOS territory are the result of the Frontier offload.

Hall
MVM
join:2000-04-28
Germantown, OH

Hall

MVM

Damn! Story is from 2005... Why I remember something like this I don't know (no Verizon here other than cellular).

»Get Fios, Lose Copper - Forever

Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02

Karl Bode to Hall

News Guy

to Hall
Ok well I got an "almost" answer, which kind of falls in line with my guess that they don't publicize it because many of these folks are going elsewhere:
Karl -- About 20-25% of our FiOS Internet net adds each quarter come from Verizon DSL customers moving up to higher FiOS Internet speeds. That's as much detail as I can provide.
ashworth7
join:2001-10-06
Pittsburgh, PA

ashworth7 to Hall

Member

to Hall
Approximately 165,000 X .25(25%,as stated above) = 41,250

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

FFH5

Premium Member

Some presentation material by Verizon on results

If you don't want to read the whole news release from Verizon, here is a short slide show on their results:
»investor.verizon.com/new ··· 1022.pdf

And here is a nice summary of the results:
»investor.verizon.com/fin ··· etin.pdf

mix
join:2002-03-19
Romeo, MI

mix

Member

LTE as an upgrade option for POTS/DSL users

Is this a serious idea anyone is throwing around for rural areas?

jmn1207
Premium Member
join:2000-07-19
Sterling, VA

jmn1207

Premium Member

Re: LTE as an upgrade option for POTS/DSL users

said by mix:

Is this a serious idea anyone is throwing around for rural areas?
Yes, Verizon seems to be giving strong indicators that this will be their long-term plan, especially when one considers how fast they are selling off their current copper wireline business and their apparent lack of interest to support it.

Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02

Karl Bode to mix

News Guy

to mix
They seem to be testing a residential version of LTE based on some leaked photos recently posted to our forums:

»Exclusive: Verizon Home LTE Beta Test Photos

Someone who has worked with them on LTE deployments also told me they're very serious in using it as a replacement for the DSL in many rural markets they didn't want to upgrade or maintain.

KCrimson
Premium Member
join:2001-02-25
Brooklyn, NY

KCrimson

Premium Member

Vz FiOS will see uptick this qtr thanks to Cablevision/Fox

I know I'm switching back to FiOS. The install is scheduled for Monday. The Fox/Cablevision dispute is what got me to start looking at the latest Vz Fios offerings. I love competition - when Verizon raises the rates in 12 months, I might switch back.
ricklerre
join:2009-06-22
Brooklyn, NY

ricklerre

Member

Re: Vz FiOS will see uptick this qtr thanks to Cablevision/Fox

you go girl(or whatever)!

Pathfinder5
Dazed Confused
Premium Member
join:2000-03-26
New York, NY

Pathfinder5 to KCrimson

Premium Member

to KCrimson
said by KCrimson:

I know I'm switching back to FiOS. The install is scheduled for Monday. The Fox/Cablevision dispute is what got me to start looking at the latest Vz Fios offerings. I love competition - when Verizon raises the rates in 12 months, I might switch back.
I have it on good authority that the Yonkers CO has seen at least double the FIOS installs that it normally has.
(Yonkers is Cablevision territory)
chgo_man99
join:2010-01-01
Sunnyvale, CA

chgo_man99

Member

This is normal trend

that an old technology is being phased out in the favor of a new technology. I got rid of DSL in favor of higher speeds and same monthly prices.
mlcarson
join:2001-09-20
Santa Maria, CA

mlcarson

Member

Re: This is normal trend

It's not really a replacement if it comes with caps or is charged per byte. If it didn't have any additional costs/restrictions than standard DSL then it would be a win for rural area consumers. If they charge like data usage on cell phones then it's a failure.
tmc8080
join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY

tmc8080

Member

wireless saturation

at the prices verizon charges and the terms of service there is market saturation... verizon will only respond to price cuts and competition if it really has to, not as an initiator of "disruptive pricing"

DavePR
join:2008-06-04
Canyon Country, CA

DavePR

Member

Verizon (nee GTE) or Verizon Wireless?

Are you saying Verizon the phone company is going to get Verizon Wireless to take over business by switching from hardline to 4G wireless? That seems awfully complicated.

jmn1207
Premium Member
join:2000-07-19
Sterling, VA

jmn1207

Premium Member

Re: Verizon (nee GTE) or Verizon Wireless?

They have already sold off large regions where they felt that upgrading was simply not worth the effort. Verizon Wireless is hugely successful, and the natural progression of the technology will allow for Verizon to regain a customer base in these regions where they pulled out.

While they are getting an immediate return on the sales of these more rural wireline areas, and as their wireless service coverage and technology advances, it will be quite possible to offer much better service at a more competitive cost a few years down the road.

What is difficult to understand is how Verizon was able to find a willing buyer to take on the enormous debt and flailing, aging telephony business, at least from a consumer aspect. Something about it seems rather nefarious. Having suffered indirectly from the WorldCom scandal, can you blame me for not being very trusting with this industry?

Raven63
@myvzw.com

Raven63

Anon

Verizon Adds 226k FiOS Users, Loses 165k DSL Users

Verizon deserve to lose customers. They are absolutely rotten to us. We have had them for 1 year and 2 months and the whole time it's been hell. They have slowed down our download/upload speed so much that we not only can't get get u-tube or radio streams, we can't update our antivirus and security programs and even the updates of the VZAccess Manager fail. I've called them hundreds of times about it. They always say they are putting in a trouble ticket but during all of that time, they only put in 1. They called and told my husband that their troubleshooting found that everything was fine. They didn't ask US if it was fine - and it isn't...I could go on but not now.

cork1958
Cork
Premium Member
join:2000-02-26

cork1958

Premium Member

Re: Verizon Adds 226k FiOS Users, Loses 165k DSL Users

said by Raven63 :

Verizon deserve to lose customers. They are absolutely rotten to us. We have had them for 1 year and 2 months and the whole time it's been hell. They have slowed down our download/upload speed so much that we not only can't get get u-tube or radio streams, we can't update our antivirus and security programs and even the updates of the VZAccess Manager fail. I've called them hundreds of times about it. They always say they are putting in a trouble ticket but during all of that time, they only put in 1. They called and told my husband that their troubleshooting found that everything was fine. They didn't ask US if it was fine - and it isn't...I could go on but not now.
Get rid of that VZAcess crap anyway. No need for that.

Personally, I think Verizon is one of the greediest, most inhumane companies there is. Glad I've never worked for them and so far, glad they sold us off to Frontier!!

tim_k
Buttons, Bows, Beamer, Shadow, Kasey
Premium Member
join:2002-02-02
Stewartstown, PA

tim_k to Raven63

Premium Member

to Raven63
said by Raven63 :

Verizon deserve to lose customers. They are absolutely rotten to us. We have had them for 1 year and 2 months and the whole time it's been hell. They have slowed down our download/upload speed so much that we not only can't get get u-tube or radio streams, we can't update our antivirus and security programs and even the updates of the VZAccess Manager fail. I've called them hundreds of times about it. They always say they are putting in a trouble ticket but during all of that time, they only put in 1. They called and told my husband that their troubleshooting found that everything was fine. They didn't ask US if it was fine - and it isn't...I could go on but not now.
Next time, demand an escalation of your problem. You need to get past the tier 1 techs to get anything done.

Pathfinder5
Dazed Confused
Premium Member
join:2000-03-26
New York, NY

Pathfinder5 to Raven63

Premium Member

to Raven63
Why would you keep them for 14 months? Aren't there any alternatives?
Personally I have had their DSL for over 10 years and it has been flawless.
nocannothave
join:2006-10-14
Kennewick, WA

nocannothave

Member

Re: Verizon Adds 226k FiOS Users, Loses 165k DSL Users

said by Pathfinder5:

Why would you keep them for 14 months? Aren't there any alternatives?
Personally I have had their DSL for over 10 years and it has been flawless.
I had the same experience, except mine was for just under four years. I only dropped landline and DSL two months ago.
kmcheng
join:2002-02-12
Elmhurst, NY

kmcheng

Member

pretty happy

pretty happy with my 7.1mb DSL from verizon, although I would like to upgrade to fios
ebubman
join:2002-01-17
Mechanicsburg, PA

ebubman

Member

left comcast

20+ year comcast customer----moved recently & fios available at new crib. got the fios extreme hd triple play. internet much faster than comcast. tv menu structure far more attractive than comcast. hd channels > comcast. phone is ok--mainly for e911. however, the guaranteed cost is SIGNIFICANTLY LOWER THAN COMCAST over the entire life of the promotion. overall, we are seriously liking fios & have NO reason to even think about looking @ comcast.
lightning106
join:2008-09-03
Whittier, CA

lightning106

Member

>_>

come to my 60 year old house in poor condition and try to remove my copper lines Verizon. I dare you.