Verizon Adds 54k Broadband Users In Q2Landline losses, broadband slows -- but wireless remains robust... ( old news - 10:24AM Monday Jul 28 2008) tags: business · Verizon Online DSLDespite facing what they call "economic headwinds," Verizon issued a strong second quarter earnings report this morning (also see investor slide pdf). Like AT&T, the company remains in solid financial shape thanks to growth in the wireless sector, with the telco adding 1.5 million new wireless subscribers on the quarter. Also like AT&T, the company continues to see steep landline losses (down 11.4% from a year ago) and slower than expected broadband growth. It's interesting to noted that Verizon lost 133,000 DSL customers, but added 187,000 FiOS customers, bringing their net new customers from Q2 to just 54,000.
Related:- Verizon Pays $2 Million For Poor Florida Service
- Verizon's $1.99 Phantom Fee Returns
- Verizon Working With RIAA On New Warning Letters
- Verizon Also Sending Letters On Behalf Of MPAA
- Verizon Offers Six Months Free DSL Promo
- Frontier Fires Up Verizon Acquisition PR Campaign
- Verizon Again Hints At Metered Billing
- NY PSC: Verizon Lagging On DSL/Landline Repairs
|
 
supergirl
join:2007-03-20
Pensacola, FL | Are DSL customers switching to FIOS? That is the question. If not, those numbers really suck. | |
| |  | | | | PDXPLT
join:2003-12-04
Banks, OR | Not surprising DSL numbers are down ... Since they've essentially stopped deployment.
Nobody's gonna buy something that's not available to them.  | |
| 
Smith6612
Premium
join:2008-02-01
united state
1 edit | You can see... what a little bit of fiber optic will do to a company. Makes it grow! At least it shows Verizon is making an expensive investment but it's paying off. | |
| | rody_44
Premium
join:2004-02-20
Quakertown, PA | Re: You can see... actually it only looked good on the wireless segment. if you consider the big picture which is how many land lines they lost compared to overall growth of broadband and tv subs. it doesnt look good at all. | |
| | | Corydon
Cultivant son jardin
Premium
join:2008-02-18
Denver, CO
clubs:
 ·Comcast
| Re: You can see... said by rody_44  : actually it only looked good on the wireless segment. if you consider the big picture which is how many land lines they lost compared to overall growth of broadband and tv subs. it doesnt look good at all. Well, to be fair, getting people to upgrade their services to more TV channels and faster internet speeds in the current economy is going to be a tough sell, so Verizon really is having to deal with the bad luck of really getting their service off the ground at a time when many people are a lot more focused on the bottom line rather than the speed of their connection.
Unfortunately for Verizon, this helps cable more than them, since cable can sell VoIP on the basis of price, while Verizon is selling FiOS on the basis of quality.
--
"Think for yourselves and let others enjoy the privilege to do so too." | |
| | | | Ahrenl
join:2004-10-26
North Andover, MA
 ·Verizon FIOS
| Re: You can see... When I do a cost compare between FIOS and Comcast, FIOS wins even if I get more DVR's and the 20/5 package, by nearly $30's. Comcast refused to re-up me on the $99 triple play deal (for the, ahem, 5th time) so they've left me little choice in any case. If you can get the $99 triple play deal still, then Comcast still has some cost advantage.
The only reason I'm hesitant to switch is I've read a lot about the trouble with the MS FIOS DVRs. Since this is what my wife will complain about loudest, it gives me pause. | |
| | | 
Pathfinder
Dazed Confused
Premium
join:2000-03-26
Mount Vernon, NY | The big picture doesn't include land lines. That is a losing proposition and Verizon knows it. Their growth is in FIOS and wireless. | |
| | | | EPS
join:2008-02-13
Hingham, MA | Re: You can see... I think Verizon has the right idea- use the dwindling landline profits to invest in businesses more likely to survive in the long term. | |
| 
tschmidt
Premium,MVM
join:2000-11-12
Milford, NH
 ·Hollis Hosting
 ·Verizon Online DSL
·Fairpoint Communic..
| NE sale excluded Total broadband connections were 8.3 million, a net increase of 54,000 over the first quarter 2008. This includes a decrease of 133,000 DSL-based Verizon High Speed Internet connections, which was more than offset by the increase in FiOS Internet customers. The 8.3 million is an 11.5 percent year-over year increase, excluding broadband connections in 2007 in the three New England states that have since been spun off. Highlight added Wonder how including the sale of VT/NH/ME would have changed the numbers?
I think it is way too early to measure the effect of FIOS. We are early in the rollout stage and Verizon is really just getting its act together bringing FIOS TV to market. Something often lost in the fiber vs copper debate is that operating expenses (Opex) for fiber is much lower then copper. As Verizon moves away from copper there will be substantial savings in maintenance expense.
/tom | |
| | Dolgan
Premium
join:2005-10-01
Sun Prairie, WI
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: NE sale excluded quote:
I think it is way too early to measure the effect of FIOS. We are early in the rollout stage and Verizon is really just getting its act together bringing FIOS TV to market. Something often lost in the fiber vs copper debate is that operating expenses (Opex) for fiber is much lower then copper. As Verizon moves away from copper there will be substantial savings in maintenance expense.
Spoken like a true Verizon Manager/Executive who is toeing the company line. The leadership of our company has failed to live up to its Corporate Resposibilty to its customers. They are more concerned about the shareholders and maintaining their obscene bonuses/stock options. They continue to cut Employees, fail to maintian existing OSP, refuse to fix constantly bugged software we use everyday, and still will not get the IVRU fixed after 3 years of constant employee/customer complaints. What? You don't believe me? Here are some examples.
1] In order to meet 2nd qtr "budget requirements" they had 2 tech buyouts in less than 8 weeks. This is heading into the summer which is the busiest time of year{due to storms/service moves}. This lack of workforce has caused severe delays in repair times and service order completions. We still have repair tickets/service orders sitting in queues that were due in June and we now at the end of July. Wonder how many of these customers are "Net Promoters" of Verizon?
2] The 2 main systems we use in the EVRCs are CAD and Storc. Both systems have severe slowdowns/lockups almost every shift. Storc has had a known memory leak for over 2 years that IT can not/refuses to fix. CAD databases are not large enough, so anytime they get large amounts of tickets it will slowdown. Furthermore, CAD is also used by the FSCs and will not always properly identify the difference between FIOS and Copper accounts--causing customers to be continuosly misrouted to the wrong support center.
3] The IVRU has been, and still remains a worthless piece of sh!t that misdirects customers, locks them in 20+ minute loops, and is a constant source of customer/employee complaints. The latest flavor of finger pointing is that "it is the customer's fault they were misdirected/locked in a loop". Nothing like blaming your customers for the poor system that was implemented by Verizon.
4] Verizon does not develop their employees, or engage in ongoing training. The previous carrier I worked for had 8 weeks classrom training and 4 weeks of taking calls in a sheltered environment before hitting the floor. There was also monthly training, and in slow times there would be further training/refresher courses on system usage and troubleshooting. Verizon has 1 week of classroom training, 1 week sheltered and then you hit the floor. There is no way that is sufficeint training for someone off the street with no Telco experience. There is no continuing training at Verizon as they would rather give out "surplus time"{non-paid time off} during slow periods.
5] Instead of fixing chronic issues Verizon choses to simply credit customer accounts in hope that they will be appeased and stay with us. Whoop-De-Do a whopping $25 LEC credit sure would keep me loyal when I am calling in 15+ times a year and my service goes out when a squirrel pisses on a broken Pedestal. They have supposedly implemented a "Code Rescue Program" that is supposed to resolve chronic issues at any cost and any time of day. However, they failed to notify the DRCs/NDCs who refuse to dispatch the techs necessary to implement this successfully.
You need to stop believing the Corporate spin that Verizon spews forth and look at what is actually occurring. | |
| | 
got the day off
@windstream.net | 1.6 million landlines sold if 8% had dsl, well there you go | |
| DoRight
join:2007-07-20
Mechanicsburg, PA | The pressure is on And that is why I was let go.. I had one of the top areas in the region and was still let go because they were not satisfied with the numbers in my market... Oh well.. To note I worked for a contracter and not VZC.. | |
| decifal
join:2007-03-10
Bon Aqua, TN | Will the expand? My question is this. Will Verizon ever expand into other states or do they have an agreement with the deathstar on where they do business? I'd love to see Verizon come to TN and buildout their services!!.. | |
| ebubman
join:2002-01-17
Enola, PA
·Comcast
 ·Vonage
| would not mind getting verizon dsl we have ccast isp which is pretty snappy but pricey. would not mind shifting over to dsl to retain broadband but to save circa $12/mo over comcast. bad part is, per the verizon website, the dsl availability stops about 50' from our townhome. my neighbor 2 doors over can get vzon dsl. so it goes..... | |
| | DoRight
join:2007-07-20
Mechanicsburg, PA | Re: would not mind getting verizon dsl If your looking for a cheaper price then get 768/384 for $24.95 a month from Comcraptic.. | |
| 
Rick
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-06
Waterbury, CT
clubs: 
| The problem facing verizon is this.. While I've certainly given them kudos for stepping up to the ftth plate..financially..they've got to make this work.
It is SO expensive to rollout and, coupled with the loss of landline customers, if they didn't have wireless to prop up their numbers, they'd be in a world of hurt.
It's going to be very tough to continue to count on wireless because that market is getting all but saturated these days and, if they're going to cannibalize their dsl customer base to grow fios, that's not going to be very much help to them.
The real risk here is that ultimately, if they don't grow their profits enough..they're not going to be able to price fios competitively. Right now, they're giving the deals to try to lure cable customers away, but if those deals vanish, it's really going to turn into another story like Rambus versus DDR was..meaning perhaps technologically fios was superior to a fiber cable network..but it winds up not mattering in the market place because cable..particularly with a docsis 3.0 upgrade..was good enough.
It's also interesting to note that AT&T had a very strong quarter with Uverse subscriber growth...on par in fact with fios's. Some could certainly interpret that as being AT&T had the right idea all along with their lower cost approach.
Time will tell whether that was a fluke or not..and may simply have been they now have such a large area where uverse is built out..that a jump in numbers was inevitable.
Given the fiber to the vrad approach..it's also much easier for AT&T to "pass homes" with uverse than it is for fios to say the same.
Anyways..should be interesting to see how it all plays out.
We haven't seen the cable co's hand yet..and how docsis 3.0 will impact all of this. If they don't do something about the price..I don't think it will do much. Not much interest IMHO for 150.00 residential hsi connections.
If however..they took it down to something close to where things are now pricewise..and simply made the new standard 50Mb speeds across cable networks..I honestly think both verizon and AT&T's entire businesses could be at risk.
A triple play at those speeds..at todays prices would be devastating for the telco industry.
--
The Coyote captured the RR! Roadrunner Rick is now Comcastic! | |
| |
Big Pete
@qwest.net
| Re: The problem facing verizon is this.. Even if they are cannibalizing their own DSL subs, the maintenance cost savings on the network is huge. Verizon can't get rid of the copper fast enough (ie Fairpoint deal). If FiOS wasn't paying itself off, then they would have stopped building FiOS a long time ago. Right now, its still full speed ahead. Also, from what I understand, the 2nd quarter usually has the lowest take rate of the year. With NYC FiOS numbers being added this next quarter I think they will be back to 250K adds a quarter or more for the next 2 or 3 quarters. | |
| | | Dolgan
Premium
join:2005-10-01
Sun Prairie, WI
·Verizon Online DSL
1 edit | Re: The problem facing verizon is this.. quote:
If FiOS wasn't paying itself off, then they would have stopped building FiOS a long time ago.
FIOS is still not showing any profits, and is being paid for by the other divisions within Verizon. FIOS is not projected to start bringing in profit{ROI} untill sometime in 2010. | |
| | | |
Big Pete
@qwest.net
| Re: The problem facing verizon is this.. quote:
FIOS is still not showing any profits, and is being paid for by the other divisions within Verizon. FIOS is not projected to start bringing in profit{ROI} untill sometime in 2010.
Yeah, its called a capital investment, and more than likely its being paid for with increased debt, not from other divisions. The fact that they started building FiOS in like 2003 and its already going to start showing profits in 2010... on a $23B investment? That's pretty damn good... Verizon continues to proclaim that they are ahead of all their projections with FiOS, including ARPU and penetration rate. Once they start making a profit on the fiber, the margins are a hell of a lot higher too, considering lower maintenance costs. | |
| | | | | Dolgan
Premium
join:2005-10-01
Sun Prairie, WI
·Verizon Online DSL
1 edit | Re: The problem facing verizon is this.. It is being paid for by budget cuts from every other divison of Verizon Telecomm, in addition to assuming a higher debt load. The budget cuts are to keep the stock price artificially high--during this time of expenditure the stock price should have remained stagnant/fell as the expenditure eats into actual profits. The 2010 was projected at a time when the economy was not faltering as well, so it may take longer to see the actual ROI.
Lower maintainence costs for FIOS are pure speculation at this this point. The only thing that is known is that fiber will not corrode like copper lines exposed to moisture. Lets see what happens when the fiber cable cases start cracking and moisture, dust, and etc get into the cables. It will also be interseting to see the repair times/cost when the Tampa/St Pete area gets hit by a hurricane and multiple aerials need to be replaced. Same can be said for mudslides, fires, earthquakes in the CA cities that FIOS is deployed in. You will have the same amount of Cable/drop cuts to deal with as we currently have on copper lines as well. We will have to see what happens over the next several years to see if the lower maintainence costs are a reality or just a fart in the wind. | |
| | | | | |
Big Pete
@qwest.net
| Re: The problem facing verizon is this.. quote:
We will have to see what happens over the next several years to see if the lower maintainence costs are a reality or just a fart in the wind.
My guess is they have a pretty good idea of what it will take to maintain the fiber as their backhaul networks have been fiber for quite some time. Furthermore, look at how quickly they are losing subscribers on the copper side of the business... without FiOS, where the hell would Verizon be right now? Like they always say... You gotta spend money to make money... They've proven that theory on the wireless side and now that is translating to the wireline side with the introduction of FiOS. AT&T and Qwest should be ashamed of their wireline networks... | |
| | | | | | | Dolgan
Premium
join:2005-10-01
Sun Prairie, WI
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: The problem facing verizon is this.. I agree that FTP is the way to go. You can not compare maintainence of Backhaul Cables to the Main Cables that run from the CO to F1 cables, to F2 cables, and then to drops. Backhauls are run thru remote areas and/or along our highway system--that protects them from "Joe 6-pack" who digs in his yard w/o locating lines and cuts the F1 feeding his neighborhood. The system of cables that run to the endusers have many more access points than backhauls, which leads to more potential problems. Moreover, the main/feeder cables run thru more congested areas and are more susceptible to damage from traffic accidents, contractor/construction cuts, and etc. Verizon may believe they will have the same low maintainence as backhauls, but as stated earlier it is not proven as of yet. | |
| | | | | | disc
join:2005-12-31
Raleigh, NC
| said by Dolgan :Lower maintainence costs for FIOS are pure speculation at this this point. The only thing that is known is that fiber will not corrode like copper lines exposed to moisture. They should get OPex savings on the equipment where they've eliminated electronics too, like the splitter equipment. | |
| | | | disc
join:2005-12-31
Raleigh, NC
| said by Dolgan :FIOS is not projected to start bringing in profit{ROI} untill sometime in 2010. By ROI, do you mean EBITDA positive? They were forecasting EBITDA positive by 4Q08.
Or do you mean break even. That will be when the accumulated EBITDA (after taxes) pays off on the CAPex. Given that they're just reaching EBITDA positive end of this year, 2010 will be pretty aggressive for break even. | |
| | | | | Dolgan
Premium
join:2005-10-01
Sun Prairie, WI
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: The problem facing verizon is this.. We have been told that FIOS will generate positive cashflow sometime in 2010. That was based upon an expectation of a take rate of 33%+{that at least 1/3 of of people in FIOS capable areas actually subscribe to the service--unsure how it breaks down with the amount of services taken --ie FIOS triple play vs internet/phone vs internet only --which would affect total Return on Investment}. I agree it is an optimistic outlook with the current take rates and the great unknown of how soon the economy will recover from its current malaise/recession. The executives will keep spinning as much positive vibe as possible to keep the shareholders happy, but only the test of time will show what the outcome will be. | |
| | | | | | disc
join:2005-12-31
Raleigh, NC
| Re: The problem facing verizon is this.. said by Dolgan :We have been told that FIOS will generate positive cashflow sometime in 2010. Positive cash flow by 2010 probably makes sense. All they need to do is keep their CAPex down so that it is exceeded by EBITDA (less taxes).
Once they start making positive cash flow, then they can start "paying off" the early years when they were negative cash flow, and when they reach that, that's when they can declare payback. That'll be a fair period past 2010. The rest after that is ROI. | |
| | 
Millenniumle
join:2007-11-11
Fredonia, NY
| The Rambus analogy is an interesting perspective. Outside of VoD, today's internet content seems to move ok over a $20 1Mbps line. Existing and proposed caps would seem to wipe any concern for living up to the need for VoD over HSI.
What I understand of FIOS leads me to believe it is the most capable of handling large amounts of VoD users, but it would seem even FIOS wont be able to look away if alternative VoD suppliers cut into their own FIOSTV; meaning I don't think they could avoid caps. Shoot, even Time Warner could potentially offer up VoD over competitor's HSI lines. | |
| | 
a333
A hot cup of integrals please
join:2007-06-12
Rego Park, NY
 ·Cingular Wireless
·Verizon Online DSL
| Much as they want to fight competition from Verizon, cable MSO's must be careful about the speeds they offer, even over DOCSIS 3.0. Lower the price enough, and your network will be swamped with users who all start complaining about speeds going south during peak hours. With all the demand for better HD and more channels, I doubt Comcast will focus on making 50 Mbits the 'standard' but will definitely keep it on the table for the elite users. This, in turn, will force Verizon to tone down the price of their 50/20 tier available in select market ATM, and also will foster faster GPON deployment. Competition is sooo nice; gives you, the customer, that warm, fuzzy feeling............. | |
| roadrun777
join:2002-01-22
Tallahassee, FL
| The problem is in the business model Look people, it's inevitable. Just like roads where built from dirt, then stone, then modern asphalt, they will continue to progress.
Network data communications will be the backbone of an economic boom if these companies do it right.
The main reason for deflation right now is that the 1800's model of business the communications industry was founded on, is ending.
Landlines will eventually die out, data lines will be considered essential and a necessary utility.
Data lines will be considered a neutral highway like infrastructure essential to everyday business, and you will see policy introduced to force separated power systems for the data infrastructure to the last mile similar to land lines now.
Communications companies need to understand where this is going and develop services and technology based on that. Saturation will eventually reach everyone, either by mandatory regulation or by science.
Not everyone subscribes to premium cable services because of the price disparity, and many people consider content offered to be less than desirable. The saying "There is one hundred channels on TV, and there is still nothing to watch", explains the situation perfectly.
If Verizon had even a remote clue as to what kinds of services could be offered over such a high speed link, they would be offering those types of services right now and people would be signing up.
The problem is that Verizon is trying to rebuild a National communications infrastructure, while making a profit from it, and developing entirely new services to entice consumers to buy into the system, when that really should be the job of the Nation. | |
| | | |
|
|
Fios not all conquering