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Verizon Advertising Symmetrical Speed Boost as 'SpeedMatch'
by Karl Bode 08:14AM Monday Aug 25 2014 Tipped by telcodad See Profile
Last month Verizon made all FiOS tiers symmetrical at no additional cost to users, taking serious aim at its cable competitors whose upstream speeds have started to look more than a little dated. The company is slowly deploying the upgrade to all users over the next few months, and in the interim have started a new advertising campaign for the speed boost. According to Verizon's new commercials, they're calling the upgrades "SpeedMatch" and declaring that "cable can't touch" upgrades of this type.

»youtu.be/0N95x97rN6U

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mr2
Premium
join:2002-08-07
Cabin John, MD

VZ Speed Match doesn't match underlying tech

The GPON equipment that underlies FiOS is inherently asymmetric. Typically the aggregate downstream capacity ~2.5 times the aggregate upstream capacity. So, if lots of customers make sustained use the upstream, it will saturate far earlier than comparable large scale sustained use of the downstream. FiOS' present technology is NOT genuinely a symmetrical product (thus VZ cannot claim that requiring traffic balance is justified on peering sessions feeding its FiOS systems).
elefante72

join:2010-12-03
East Amherst, NY

Re: VZ Speed Match doesn't match underlying tech

Agreed (phys is 2/1) however DL/UL bias is probably 90/10 or greater. In my monthly usage (and I do lots of cloud stuff), the biggest upload % was 15% and hovers typically around 10%. The main reason is that the kids stream like crazy and it becomes a law of averages. Intercon congestion is their biggest issue today, not upload.

Interestingly many of the "cloud" providers can't handle high-speed ingest yet either, so I find on my 75/75 (which is slow for folks on this board), my 75 is never fully utilized.

And so this becomes a network management issue more than anything else and for home users upload in the near term is not that important. This is a marketing event more than anything else, but for free I'm in.

Jcink

join:2005-12-19
none
You're right, but I don't think it'll be a huge problem. GPON is 1.2Gbps, so for a long time the upload was very undersold. It'd take ~15 users uploading at 75Mbps full blast before saturation.
elefante72

join:2010-12-03
East Amherst, NY

Re: VZ Speed Match doesn't match underlying tech

The cable provider (TWC) "Ultimate" is 50/5 for $65. While the 50 is good today for almost every user, the "5" is easily saturated, and that is the point. I can order 500 today from VZ--not sure how soon that is coming to whatever happens to TWC. In the last 4 years, I have payed relatively the same and have gone from 25/25 to 75/75. TWC on the flip side had pretty much not done squat except go on the high end from 30/5 to 50/5.

HOWEVER they are both "uncapped", which is still something to point out. If comcast takes over, goodbye uncapped. They will force users to business class at higher rates and substandard speeds with multi-year contracts..

When cable deploys DS3.1 they will be more competitive, but for now its take market share.

NoCaps

@95.154.230.x

Re: VZ Speed Match doesn't match underlying tech

said by elefante72:

If comcast takes over, goodbye uncapped. They will force users to business class at higher rates and substandard speeds with multi-year contracts..

When cable deploys DS3.1 they will be more competitive, but for now its take market share.

Not so sure Comcast will turn to caps again in a big way. Even now, with their trials in several locations, a very small % of their users are capped. And from a marketing perspective, as opposed to a competitive perspective, it is in Comcast's best interest to remain uncapped. Google is keeping the marketing pressure on them even if they don't compete with them head to head. Comcast has a long history of keeping up with technology and moving to Docsis 3.1 will take the heat off capping needs.

Also, Comcast merger processes has found them agreeing to terms to gain regulatory approvals. It wouldn't surprise me in the least that gaining approvals from FCC and DOJ and state PUCs for TWC merger ends up with them agreeing to not apply caps.
BiggA

join:2005-11-23
EARTH
Doesn't matter, they are offering symmetrical speeds to the user.
smcallah

join:2004-08-05
Home

Re: VZ Speed Match doesn't match underlying tech

But it certainly matters if the upload saturates and the users have trouble with uploads or sending requests to web servers or problems with games.
BiggA

join:2005-11-23
EARTH

Re: VZ Speed Match doesn't match underlying tech

The upload isn't going to saturate. There's tons of bandwidth there, even on BPON. Plus, upload jamming is a DOCSIS thing, fiber shouldn't be nearly as susceptible to it.

jseymour

join:2009-12-11
Waterford, MI

True, But...

Not certain how big a deal this is. I've got 17/3 on Comcast Business HSI, and never found the 3mb/s up to be a problem.

Personally: I suspect VZ is doing this for bragging rights, at little real cost to them or in demand on their network. Smart marketing move.

Jim

tito79

join:2010-03-14
Brewster, NY
kudos:1

Re: True, But...

Lay off the torrents and you will see the network improve.
clone

join:2000-12-11
Portage, IN

Re: True, But...

If he's perfectly fine with 3Mbit/sec upload, why would you think he's running torrents? A real torrent user would want a lot more upload bandwidth than that.

jseymour

join:2009-12-11
Waterford, MI

Re: True, But...

I've no clue what he was on about. We've got 17/3 and it's all we need. (I would've thought that apparent from my OP.)

I've never used bittorrent for anything. Ever. FTP was good enough for my daddy, so it's good enough for me.

Jim

Smith6612
Premium,MVM
join:2008-02-01
North Tonawanda, NY
kudos:24

1 recommendation

Real torrent users use Seedboxes on 100Mbps or Gig-E ports

neill6705

join:2014-08-09
I'm confused. He specifically said there was nothing wrong, and didn't mention anything about torrenting or even imply it.

whfsdude
Premium
join:2003-04-05
Washington, DC

2 recommendations

Comcast Needs to Strike Back with IPv6 Ads

With Comcast you get access to the whole Internet (IPv4 and IPv6). With Verizon FiOS you can only get to the legacy parts of the the Internet.

jseymour

join:2009-12-11
Waterford, MI

2 recommendations

Re: Comcast Needs to Strike Back with IPv6 Ads

IPv6 will mean absolutely nothing to the vast majority of U.S. Internet service customers, and little more than nothing to most of those who do understand what it means.

I'd like to have it, because I'd like to play with it. But neither my (Comcast) CM nor my border router are IPv6-capable. So, even if Comcast has deployed it on my circuit, it means nothing at all to me.

Jim

dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
kudos:4
Any site worth its salt will have both ipv4 and ipv6 servers so the point is moot.
--
Despises any post with strings.

aefstoggaflm
Open Source Fan
Premium
join:2002-03-04
Bethlehem, PA
kudos:7
Reviews:
·PenTeleData
·Verizon Online DSL

1 recommendation

Re: Comcast Needs to Strike Back with IPv6 Ads

said by dvd536:

Any site worth its salt will have both ipv4 and ipv6 servers so the point is moot.

But for how long can/will that last?

Thank you
--
Please use the "yellow (IM) envelope" to contact me and please leave the URL intact.
smcallah

join:2004-08-05
Home
So, which IPv6 only websites are important to users right now? The only true IPv6 only sites I can think of are the ones that explain what IPv6 is once you're on or the ones that check your IPv6 address and that you are fully IPv6 capable.

By the time there are actual sites that people NEED that are IPv6 only, all providers will be doing IPv6 and there is no marketing advantage.

aefstoggaflm
Open Source Fan
Premium
join:2002-03-04
Bethlehem, PA
kudos:7
Reviews:
·PenTeleData
·Verizon Online DSL

3 edits

Re: Comcast Needs to Strike Back with IPv6 Ads

said by smcallah:

So, which IPv6 only websites are important to users right now? The only true IPv6 only sites I can think of are the ones that explain what IPv6 is once you're on or the ones that check your IPv6 address and that you are fully IPv6 capable.

a) Use Google and find out, how many are IPv6 besides what IPv6 is and check what your IPv6 is.

»www.google.com/search?hl=en&sour···ch&gbv=1

b) I saw »sixy.ch/ that seems to have a list of IPv6 only...

c) Live Status of sites that are IPv6 only »networking.vutbr.cz/live-statist···web_ipv6

--
Please use the "yellow (IM) envelope" to contact me and please leave the URL intact.

tshirt
Premium
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
kudos:5

2 recommendations

Stupid ad...

....everyone knows once you have FTTH you never come out of the basement unless the older woman upstairs makes you.

djrobx
Premium
join:2000-05-31
Valencia, CA
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·VOIPO

"Speed Match"?

I think it's great to see Verizon stepping it up, however, I think it's an amusing name for an upgrade that FiOS users got because cable was able to match its former speeds.

Cable could eventually touch these speeds too, if demand dictates. DOCSIS 3.1 will help if fully implemented on the return side; but that will take some work.

I'm pretty happy to have 20mbps uploads from TWC. My upload is almost as fast as the maximum download speed that AT&T will deliver to my address. AT&T, meanwhile, is busy deploying additional VRADs and more copper that actually can't touch these speeds in my neighborhood. *Facepalm*
OpTiC
Premium
join:2014-03-08
West Covina, CA

Re: "Speed Match"?

Really Verizon. This is a way to tell customers to get slower internet for higher price in TWC areas.
shmerl

join:2013-10-21

What about downstream?

Verizon can increase the downstream bandwidth quite a lot without raising prices.

atcotr

@65.60.144.x

Unusual

It's nice to see some actual competition through rising speed.
tmc8080

join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY
Reviews:
·ooma
·Optimum Online
·Verizon FiOS

1 edit

just for a goof...

I tried seeding a "LINUX" iso file and couldn't get above 600kbits..
with some tweaks seeding multiple Linux isos.. I managed 2MB (not the 7-8.5MB/sec the 50 [70]mbit with fluff would offer) , but that was it..

When they meant to offer faster uploads.. I'm not sure where they were expecting that upload data to go to.. Netflix? Certainly not offering it under bittorrent.. anybody find actual applications where they could max out their upload for a while besides a speed test?

btw, most remote drive storage sites upload at around 30mbit or around 3.5MB/sec, so good try.. but it's a no go for max upload..
BiggA

join:2005-11-23
EARTH

Crippled by MoCA and old ONTs

Verizon is crippled by MoCA and old ONTs. They could offer gig symmetrical today to the few customers who have GPON ONTs and Ethernet run to their router. The problem is, most subs are using MoCA, and they have basically tapped out what MoCA 1.1 has to offer. 75/75 is about the end of the line for it. And many BPON ONTs, while capable of around 300/150 speeds on the fiber side, are stuck with MoCA or 100mbps Ethernet out the other side. It's costing them way more to upgrade speeds than cable, since cable can just swap modems out and be good to go.

However, in the larger picture, few users really need this much speed for the next few years. Most Wifi can't keep up. What I wish Verizon would do is offer something like 300/150 in BPON areas and 1000/500 in GPON areas for a one-time install fee of a few hundred bucks to get the ONT upgraded and gig Ethernet installed. They could advertise those speeds, and few people would actually pay for them, but the few users who do want them would have a reasonable way to get them.

All that being said, even those users probably have little use for even the 82/92 offered right now on the "75/75" package. At this point, even Comcast's 100/20 is more than enough for even the heaviest power users. It's really the TV side that differentiates FIOS over Comcast and especially the horror that is TWC.

Zenit

join:2012-05-07
Purcellville, VA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Comcast
·T-Mobile US
·Verizon Online DSL

Re: Crippled by MoCA and old ONTs

Yeah VZ still has some FIOS CO's with BPON only equipment in them, and as a result the customers have BPON ONT's with the slower interfaces on them.

When I see people whining about "VZ why do you have us on 7 year old BPON??" I chuckle and think to myself that they have no idea how lucky they are in comparison to the upgraded copper footprint.

Wifi will be a bottleneck for both Cable and ILEC in the future for sure, all the new homes I have been in have been prewired with Cat6 data to each room for a reason.

I do think that another differentiating factor is architecture and reliability. Pure FTTH is not susceptible to RF ingress/egress issues like Cable, so you can expect less major service issues. No cascading amplifiers, etc.
BiggA

join:2005-11-23
EARTH

Re: Crippled by MoCA and old ONTs

True, BPON is pretty good compared to nothing from Verizon (DSL is basically nothing at this point), although they should be more active with upgrades since they spent a fortune putting the fiber in, and now the upgrades are relatively cheap...

That's great for new homes, but here in New England, there is little, if any, new construction of moderate sized homes, and even on the large end, there isn't that much new construction. Wireless will continue to advance, although MoCA itself is rather underutilized today for high-bandwidth video streaming, which usually happens on a large screen where there is coax cable, which, in the case of Verizon, is already live with MoCA. In that case, the MoCA LAN can't get bottlenecked on the MoCA WAN, since they each have the same bandwidth, although speed upgrades to support Wifi AC and MoCA LAN users at the same time would be nice... Wiring via Ethernet to the ONT and offering much higher speeds allows this. And if you put the router near a computer that can be hard wired with a patch cable, you now have three ways to suck bandwidth out of a faster connection.

All that being said, Wifi is still the bottleneck. I fixed a Wifi setup the other day that, due to the construction of the house, was giving sub-megabit speeds off of a 15mbps cable connection. I moved a repeater closer to the main router, but I recommended to the owner to use an Ethernet run that was installed for another purpose to get an AP on the opposite corner of the house for better coverage.

That's true to a certain extent, although I don't think most people care about that when choosing a provider. Also, the cable companies in FIOS areas have likely cleaned their acts up a lot to compete with FIOS, and modern two-way digital HFC systems have tons of nodes and don't have more than a few amps stacked. Plus, in FIOS areas, the cable companies likely don't have oversubscription issues, both due to being forced to node split, and self-selection of the heaviest users to FIOS, so that the average cable user in those areas likely uses way less bandwidth than the average cable user in an area where cable is a monopoly or near-monopoly player.

The MoCA system was an ingenious way for Verizon to be literally plug and play with the house's existing wiring, and not requiring expensive cable pulls, but now it's handicapping their speeds. I hope that they will develop GPON or xPON ONTs and the matching routers with MoCA 2.0, but only time will tell on that one... I also wish that they would offer a tier higher than 75/75 at a reasonable price to users to have Ethernet setups, but even 75/75 is more than plenty, and will be for several years.
tmc8080

join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY
Reviews:
·ooma
·Optimum Online
·Verizon FiOS
I've read anecdotal evidence that moca 1.1 has throughput of about 175mbits symmetrical without any problems, so the 150 package has a theoretical max upstream in the 170s with the fluff. Beyond that, moca 1.1 is tapped out. Besides, if they are upgrading you from a bpon to a gpon, it's reasonable that they would do the wiring for Ethernet at the same time-- considering that the 150mbit tier is around $100+ a month, it's WELL PAID FOR..

Cable will be pursuing docsis 3.1 when it's ready.. with Comcast most likely taking the lead once equipment becomes available for the plant and shelf equipment. They are not really in a rush to compete though.. this last round of upgrades was basically to brush off the embarrassment of middle America getting gigabit internet and the northeast (of all the densest fiber built geographies) getting basically squat...
BiggA

join:2005-11-23
EARTH

Re: Crippled by MoCA and old ONTs

The real-world benchmarks that I've seen are under 100mbps. Verizon requires the 150mbps tier to be on Ethernet for just that reason. AFAIK, there are no real-world benchmarks out there for MoCA 2.0, as there are only a couple of really hard to get products out there. My guess is that Verizon will be the first large US provider to embrace MoCA 2.0.

The 150mbps tier is absurdly overpriced, considering what their network can do. The next round of upgrades, in order to compete with 300mbps cable, has to be MoCA-based, so that they can mail the user a router, and swap the ONT out even if the user is not home (older indoor ONT installations and apartments will still require access). And even where they have to enter the residence, running Ethernet is a LOT more work, and a LOT more disruptive than just plugging in new MoCA gear.

However, if they want to go for gig symmetrical to keep ahead of even D3.1, they are going to have to go for Ethernet. In that case, ironically, cable has a much cheaper upgrade path, since there is no installation to just swap a modem out.

What? The latest upgrades were a dog and pony show for the regulators for the TWC merger. We got upgraded on Blast!, but I don't think they actually upgraded anything, so now we're really oversubscribed, but that's OK, we're still getting around 60-75mbps. But for some reason, they didn't upgrade Performance, so that's still at 25mbps. Go figure.

Zenit

join:2012-05-07
Purcellville, VA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Comcast
·T-Mobile US
·Verizon Online DSL

Re: Crippled by MoCA and old ONTs

Yeah I am not really too happy with Comcast's latest batch of "free speed increases". The first week saw random slowdowns until they shuffled things around at the CMTS.

I was expecting to go up from 28/5 on Performance to 50/5 but nope, CC wants extra $$ for that!

The tiers now make little sense, but I cant complain to much lest I want to go back to 3mbit ADSL.
BiggA

join:2005-11-23
EARTH

Re: Crippled by MoCA and old ONTs

Mine were super fast and rock solid for a week or two, then took a nosedive, and have been sinking slightly ever since. We started at 111/11 rock solid, then slid into the 80's, we've since slid through the 70's and into the 60's. What's weird is that it's not at all load dependent, so I don't know why I can't get the full 111/11 during weird way off-peak hours, or why I'm not slowed down even more during prime time...

I was expecting Performance to move to 50/10, but that didn't happen. We are on an old non-rebuild system, so we didn't get the boost to 20mbps upload.

The tiers actually make a lot of sense, as 50/10 is the sweet spot, IMHO, so they don't want to just give that away, although I think they eventually are. However, they can't seem to even offer the tiers universally, and with what they do offer, they can't reliably deliver on it.

Still, for the price I'm paying, I've gone from 25/4 Blast! to 50/10 Blast! to 105/10 Blast!, so even if I'm only getting 60mbps, it's still pretty good...
tmc8080

join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY
Reviews:
·ooma
·Optimum Online
·Verizon FiOS
Maybe some customers have a MOCA 1.0 router instead of a 1.1 router? Because the 1.1 standard clearly announces these rates:

MoCA 1.1 provides 175 Mbit/s net throughputs (275 Mbit/s PHY rate) and operates in the 500 to 1650 MHz frequency range.[4]

From what I know, the bpon Ethernet ports are only 100/100 but from what I can tell a gpon with a moca 1.1 router should be able to get decent speed on the 150 tier... although it's not recommended to go that way if they are going through the trouble of an install.. it's always a good idea to install the Ethernet anyway.. even if you eventually switch back to coax just to have it there.
BiggA

join:2005-11-23
EARTH

Re: Crippled by MoCA and old ONTs

That's in theory. Ethernet is the only thing that holds up in the real world. You get 91mbps on a 100mbps Ethernet connection, and over 900mbps on a gig connection. Everything else doesn't hold up. MoCA realistically gets about 80mbps or less, Powerline AV500 gets anywhere from almost nothing to maybe 80mbps, wireless is even worse in many cases...
BiggA

join:2005-11-23
EARTH

Re: Crippled by MoCA and old ONTs

The new gateway is out... MoCA 2.0...
kd6cae
P2p Shouldn't Be A Crime

join:2001-08-27
Bakersfield, CA

Glad to see VZ offering symmetrical speeds

For years I've always tried to get internet service with the fastest upload. This is true even now, I finally have 10 megabits up on cable, something I never thought I'd ever see. So for those lucky enough to even have FiOS, the ability to upload and download equally is welcome. The fact that cable providers won't even try to offer any kind of symmetrical offering for those of us who prefer a higher upload, still baffles me. Cable providers could offer 5/5 or 10/10 at the very least, but they don't. Don't get me wrong, I love my 90 Mbit/sec download, but for me, if I could have 90/10 or 20/20, I'd take 20/20. Good upstream speeds are good for online backup, file storage, or live HD video streaming, and so as the internet is a two-way network, providers should not be afraid to give users that want it, decent upstream.

xpbx
220, 221, Whatever It Takes.
Premium
join:2000-11-08
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
·Comcast

got mine a few weeks ago

no issues at all.

telcodad
Premium
join:2011-09-16
Lincroft, NJ
kudos:15

Latest SpeedMatch commercial

This is the commercial that I saw while watching TV on Sunday night:

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=USde1l7FlKE

Also:

Verizon’s Pitch: Upload Speeds to Match Download
By Steven Perlberg, The Wall Street Journal - August 25, 2014
»blogs.wsj.com/cmo/2014/08/25/ver···d-match/

•••

telcodad
Premium
join:2011-09-16
Lincroft, NJ
kudos:15

Now coming to Verizon FiOS small-business customers

Verizon Means Business: Upgrades FiOS Small-Business Customers' Upload Speeds at No Cost
FiOS SpeedMatch Saves Businesses Time and Resources, Helps Boost Productivity, and Delivers Extra Value
Verizon Press Release - September 22, 2014
»www.verizon.com/about/news/veriz···no-cost/