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Verizon Again Insists They Don't Use CarrierIQ
As Consumers Try to Figure Out What Devices Run It
by Karl Bode Thursday 01-Dec-2011 tags: legal · wireless · privacy · consumers · wireless
With CarrierIQ's sneaky phone rootkit now getting major media play, and the company itself rather embarrassed this week by a video showing their product does all of the things they claimed it didn't -- many consumers are trying to find out what devices and companies use the software. As a result, some companies are putting some clear distance between themselves and CarrierIQ. Verizon recently insisted to us that the company does not use the product, and again this week on Twitter Verizon's Jeffrey Nelson reiterated that statement:

Click for full size
To be 100% clear: Carrier IQ is *not* on #Verizon Wireless #VZW phones.

Roughly 141 million devices are presumed to be running the CarrierIQ software. The software was originally presumed to be something buried only in Android, Nokia and RIM devices, though we're now seeing some reports that iOS has for some time included CarrierIQ integration.

How much data that is actually being tracked still remains unclear, and in iOS's case it appears that the software sends no data -- as long as a setting called DiagnosticsAllowed is set to off. Still, the fact that this software exists and is clearly open to carrier abuse -- without any transparency or consumer protections -- is going to continue to raise eyebrows. It seems clear that there are some wiretap or privacy laws that were violated here.

As an interesting aside, in telecom you have to notice that if you're a small company that engages in this kind of snooping (NebuAD, Phorm, CarrierIQ) you get absolutely crucified in the press, gaining the ire of gadget blogs and politicians alike. However, larger carriers (AT&T NSA comes to mind) with better lobbyists tend to usually navigate these kinds of controversies without a scratch (or they just get the law changed). It will be interesting to see moving forward how carriers are held accountable for using CarrierIQ.

If you're curious, Trevor Eckhart, the researcher that originally discovered the rootkit, has developed several different applications that can test your device if you're curious. We'd be interested in seeing any compelling results in the comment section below.

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Post a:
biochemistry

join:2003-05-09
92361

1984

It is absolutely inexcusable that any provider would use this and if you are the programmer that worked on this, how do you sleep at night?

thegeek
Premium
join:2008-02-21
right here
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Suddenlink

Tested True for Me

I tested two phones with custom ROMs and one stock phone and no CIQ on any of them. Didn't figure I'd find it on the custom ROMs anyway.

»forum.xda-developers.com/showpos···ount=110

mix

join:2002-03-19
Utica, MI

Re: Tested True for Me

Yeah great, assuming that app even works correctly.

thegeek
Premium
join:2008-02-21
right here
kudos:2

Re: Tested True for Me

The developer is a trusted Android dev. I'm going to assume it actually works.

jsolo1
Premium
join:2001-07-01

Re: Tested True for Me

That developer is the same guy that brought the whole carrier iq to light in the first place!
--
Insanity is living in a state of illusion.

Rambo76098

join:2003-02-21
Columbus, OH
Same here, but my Droid 1 has Cyanogenmod 7 on it, so didn't expect anything.
expert007

join:2006-01-10
Buffalo, NY

I'd want VZW to define that a bit more broadly.

I think that VZW needs to state that they are not collecting the datasets that CarrierIQ appears to track.

Their 'to the letter' statement could mean that while VZW is not using CarrierIQ, it IS using CarrierIQX.

Linklist
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Longport, NJ
kudos:5

[Poll] Avoid smartphones because of tracking software?

I saw 1 post where a user says this is another good reason to avoid smartphones.

Poll
Will you avoid buying a smartphone to avoid tracking software?

YES

NO


Votes:62



jseymour

join:2009-12-11
Waterford, MI

Re: [Poll] Avoid smartphones because of tracking software?

said by Linklist:

I saw 1 post where a user says this is another good reason to avoid smartphones.

If it was my comment to which you refer, that's an inaccurate statement. I wrote (paraphrased) that carrier-installed spyware was another reason for me to forgo a not-so-smart phone.

said by Linklist:

Will you avoid buying a smartphone to avoid tracking software?,YES,NO

Now how about doing a poll that addresses the actual issue we're discussing: Spyware, not simple tracking.

Heck, even my prehistoric old Centro can be tracked.

Jim

MalibuMaxx
Premium
join:2007-02-06
Chesterton, IN
The only smart phone I will purchase is a fully unlocked phone or vendor phone. Never from the VZW store...

I don't have a smart phone though... so its all good...
biochemistry

join:2003-05-09
92361

OTOH

How many people out there download Android software for their smartphone without either checking the permissions or not really caring what they say? It's almost impossible to find wasoftware that doesn't invade your privacy and almost none of the software truly needs the permissions it asks for. I wish there was a listing of Android software that didn't ask for any permissions. It just would download and do only the exact thing you needed it to do.

Linklist
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Longport, NJ
kudos:5

Re: OTOH

said by biochemistry:

I wish there was a listing of Android software that didn't ask for any permissions. It just would download and do only the exact thing you needed it to do.

Every Android app that needs internet access to obtain info to present needs at least Internet Access permission.

Maybe a game that you PAID for and didn't have ads could fit into a category that didn't need internet permission or other permissions. But there are very few apps that don't need at least a couple permissions just to run.
--
The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, I'm from the government and I'm here to help.
»www.politico.com/rss/2012-election-blog.xml

flashcore

join:2007-01-23
united state
I wish there was a listing like this as well but until there is you can always root your phone and install LBE Security Service and take those matters into your own hands. I am running the stock Verizon release on my DroidX but since I have rooted the phone I can block crap like Angry Birds from looking up my current location or other apps from reading my SMS messages or phone directory.

Linklist
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Longport, NJ
kudos:5

Re: OTOH

said by flashcore:

I wish there was a listing like this

Here is a free Android app that examines all the permissions of apps on your phone or lists which apps have a specific permission:
»lifehacker.com/5812112/permissio···they-are
»market.android.com/details?id=co···issioDog
--
The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, I'm from the government and I'm here to help.
»www.politico.com/rss/2012-election-blog.xml


notUnderstan

@156.146.2.x

still not clear?

If they do not use this software or similar software. Is it still installed on their phones?

nikdo
Premium
join:2002-02-26
Dacula, GA
kudos:1

1 edit

Windows Phone

I like the way Microsoft handles this. When I click settings/feedback/privacy on my phone it takes me to this page which tells you how to disable any feature you want that concerns your privacy. Of course, I am taking them at their word on it... Its a pretty good phone/OS too
»www.microsoft.com/windowsphone/e···acy.aspx

93388818
It's cool, I'm takin it back
Premium
join:2000-03-14
Dallas, TX

Full list of what is supposedly tracked?

Does anyone have a full list of what is supposedly tracked with CIQ?

Linklist
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Longport, NJ
kudos:5

Re: Full list of what is supposedly tracked?

said by 93388818:

Does anyone have a full list of what is supposedly tracked with CIQ?

So says Sen Franken when he castigated CarrierIQ:
»franken.senate.gov/?p=press_release&id=1868

Carrier IQ was logging and potentially transmitting the sensitive information of consumers, including:

when they turn their phones on;
when they turn their phones off;
the phone numbers they dial;
the contents of text messages they receive;
the URLs of the websites they visit;the contents of their online search queries—even when those searches are encrypted; and
the location of the customer using the smartphone—even when the customer has expressly denied permission for an app that is currently running to access his or her location.

Sen. Franken called on Carrier IQ President and CEO Larry Lenhart to explain exactly what information the software records, whether that information is transmitted to Carrier IQ or to other companies, and whether that information is shared with any third party, among other things. He also asked if Carrier IQ would allow users to stop this tracking.


--
The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, I'm from the government and I'm here to help.
»www.politico.com/rss/2012-election-blog.xml


93388818
It's cool, I'm takin it back
Premium
join:2000-03-14
Dallas, TX

Re: Full list of what is supposedly tracked?

said by Linklist:

Carrier IQ was logging and potentially transmitting the sensitive information of consumers, including:

1 when they turn their phones on;
2 when they turn their phones off;
3 the phone numbers they dial;
4 the contents of text messages they receive;
5 the URLs of the websites they visit;the contents of their online search queries—even when those searches are encrypted; and
6 the location of the customer using the smartphone—even when the customer has expressly denied permission for an app that is currently running to access his or her location.

I'm not sure I'm understanding the issue here.

1. Carrier already knows when the handset registers on the network
2. Carrier knows when the phone drops off the network
3. Carrier obviously knows this to complete the calls.
4. Carrier can easily see this information
5. all web traffic sent through the carrier's web could easily be captured
6. also quite easily captured or able to be triangulated by cell tower and cell neighbors.
--
"To be sincere, you don't have to know anything, you just say whatever makes you feel good and spin and smug circles in your tiny fucked up little head, happy as long as you're true to yourself. In other words, Sincerity is bullshit!" -Penn Jillette

vzw emp

@144.191.148.x
Watching the video by the guy who found this it looks like the answer to your question is "everything". Every keystroke is logged. Text messages were captured. This program basically sits between the phone and the network and captures everything you do. The video is on Gizmodo: »gizmodo.com/5863849/your-android···autoplay.

Linklist
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Longport, NJ
kudos:5

Sprint says it uses CarrierIQ for network performance

»www.theverge.com/2011/12/1/26033···-network

After a flurry of statements from carriers and manufacturers who claim not to install the Carrier IQ tracking software, we've finally gotten an official statement from Sprint, which admits to using Carrier IQ but says it's just for analyzing network performance. Sprint says it collects "enough information to understand the customer experience with devices on our network," but that it can't look at the contents of messages, photos, or videos using Carrier IQ. Of course, this story broke when a Sprint HTC EVO 3D was shown logging keystrokes and call information, so the question remains if Carrier IQ on Sprint phones can monitor, store, or send that data — we'll ask for a clarification.


--
The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, I'm from the government and I'm here to help.
»www.politico.com/rss/2012-election-blog.xml


Linklist
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Longport, NJ
kudos:5

Re: Sprint says it uses CarrierIQ for network performance

And AT&T also says they use CarrierIQ:
»www.computerworld.com/s/article/···handsets

Both wireless carriers AT&T and Sprint insisted that the software is being used solely to improve wireless network performance while phone makers HTC and Samsung said they were integrating the software into their handsets only because their carrier customers were asking for it.

Meanwhile, several large carriers and handset makers, including Verizon, Research In Motion and Nokia, distanced themselves from the software and insisted that reports about their devices integrating the tool are false.

Mark Siegel, executive director of media relations at AT&T, however, declined to say whether Carrier IQ is present in all AT&T handsets, what notice users have of its presence and whether users have the ability to turn off the software if they choose.

In an emailed statement, Siegel said that AT&T's use of Carrier IQ software is in line with the company's privacy policies. "We're really not going to offer more detail than what's in the statement," he said.


--
The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, I'm from the government and I'm here to help.
»www.politico.com/rss/2012-election-blog.xml

slckusr
Premium
join:2003-03-17
Maumee, OH
kudos:1

Good reason to root

If for no other reason than to uninstall the carrier provided OS. been running cm7 on past couple droids with little to no issues.
jimmym

join:2010-12-28
Franklin, MA

CIQ Check on Verizon Thunderbolt

I installed the tool to check for CarrierIQ.

On page 2 there are 3 CarrierIQ buttons.
Start Test UI just says "Trying to Start Activity" then nothing.
The Open Port button is greyed out.
The Check CIQ Files button returns
"CIQ File List
------------
CIQ Check Complete "
SO I'm guessing that since no files are returned, CIQ isn't installed?

I wonder what they DO use to track the same things.

Jovi

join:2000-02-24
Mount Joy, PA

Couldn't find it on my phone...

Couldn't find it on my new Sprint Samsung Galaxy S2. Do you need to root your phone to be able to a least see it running?
--
"Some people have no respect for logic."

Scatcatpdx
Fur It Up

join:2007-06-22
Portland, OR

You can keep your stinkin Smart phone

I am amazed how many will still rush to buy the latest smart phone regardless of the violation of privacy. I do not need to buy

joshuaren

@ascentdata.com

Network maintenance?

I think it's pretty funny that Verizon says they don't use it, but I read another article stating that Sprint and AT&T do. Verizon's network is definitely superior to both....

The Sprint spokesperson said according to the article: "Carrier IQ is an integral part of the Sprint service. Sprint relies on Carrier IQ to help maintain our network performance."

Network performance? Hey Sprint, I think your version of Carrier IQ is broken.

ashrc4
Premium
join:2009-02-06
australia

O.K. when?

Questions remains; When does google etc push an update to remove?

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