Verizon Begins FiOS Upgrades In DCHolds ceremony with DC mayor to launch deployment 11:28AM Wednesday Sep 02 2009 by Karl Bodetags: Fiber · business · telco · Verizon FIOSWhen Verizon signed a franchise agreement with Washington DC last fall, the company promised to have the entire city wired within nine years. Yesterday saw Verizon and DC leaders conduct a ceremony to officially kick off the build, which won't be fully completed until 2018. According to Verizon, the first areas to get FiOS TV include the Barry Farms, Brightwood, Columbia Heights, Crestwood, Fort Stanton, Friendship Heights, Historic Anacostia, Petworth, Shepherd Park, Sheridan, Tenleytown, Van Ness and Woodley Park neighborhoods in the Northwest and Southeast quadrants. Like similar agreements in NYC and elsewhere, the franchise deal allows Verizon to extend the nine-year build deadline or wiggle out of it entirely should certain deployment benchmarks be met.
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 binded2
join:2009-08-11
Providence, RI
| i find it funny that these citys and towns continue to let them get away with there so called wiggle room and cherry picking deals
it does not matter to me i have fios but i do find it funny that after what happen with all the wirelines that they sold off and not that the city and towns dont hold verizon to there contracts
and when they fail they dont even get a lil slap on the hand nothing at all
the citys and towns should have a provide to all or provide to none at all deals this one st has it the next st over does not have it is total bullhit | |
|  | | | | jjeffeory
join:2002-12-04
USA
| Re: i find it funny that said by wifi4milez  :said by binded2 :the citys and towns should have a provide to all or provide to none at all deals this one st has it the next st over does not have it is total bullhit Then the providers will simply walk from the deal, and the people wont have access to the service. said by binded2 :it does not matter to me i have fios Clearly, based on your above statement.  This is when we should build out fiber ourselves. If the companies don't want to give us services, we should build our own facilities and make our own service.... Wait! Some place do that and still are criticized on here. | |
| | | Samsonian
join:2007-06-15
| said by wifi4milez :said by binded2 :the citys and towns should have a provide to all or provide to none at all deals this one st has it the next st over does not have it is total bullhit Then the providers will simply walk from the deal, and the people wont have access to the service. A big provider, like Comcast or Verizon, isn't going to walk from a big city, like D.C., over a relatively minor issue.
Everyone knows that.
It's not as if the build out schedule is unreasonable. 9 years to cover 1 major city is eminently doable for Verizon.
If I was in their position, I would make Comcast and Verizon commit to offering service to every home and business in city limits as well. I'd hold fast on that, because that alone is a deal breaker, everything else is negotiable.
For local officials, making sure all residents and businesses have affordable, fast, broadband service available, is a quality of life and competitiveness issue. That's why many cities and counties have pursued muni broadband efforts. | |
| | | | axus
join:2001-06-18
Washington, DC
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: i find it funny that I think they may focus on another city, though. Verizon doesn't seem to be as good at multi-tasking as the old monopoly.
I live in DC, wish FIOS was coming my way but it won't til year 3 at least. Seems like the city will always be under construction. | |
| | puck0114
join:2005-12-24
Washington, DC | Looking at this list of neighborhoods, the whole "cherry picking" argument is completely debunked. Anacostia? Brightwood? Petworth? These are some of the poorest neighborhoods in DC. | |
| | | soothsayer15
join:2002-03-01
Irving, TX
1 edit | Re: i find it funny that said by puck0114 :Looking at this list of neighborhoods, the whole "cherry picking" argument is completely debunked. Anacostia? Brightwood? Petworth? These are some of the poorest neighborhoods in DC. You're using facts, that won't work here. | |
| | | | | | | jvanbrecht
join:2007-01-08
Bowie, MD
| Re: i find it funny that I will disagree slightly here.. the difference between DC and some other cities, is that DC is very dense, and very compact. Also take into account the neighbourhood structure, as I mentioned earlier, all of the neighbourhoods listed have both upper rich areas, and lower poor income areas, Columbia heights is a prime example, on the street where I rented (which is actually considered Mount Pleasant not Columbia Heights), you have $1m plus row houses, and fancy cars, you walk 2 blocks away, and its subsidized low income housing/apartments, and at one point even a homeless shelter right next to the metro (not sure if thats still there anymore now that they built the target right across the street). Much of DC is that way, South East, which is where Anacostia is used to be all slum and low income, with recent developments, the stadium and what not, alot of it is now upper class.
My guess is that Verizon can not get around wiring the low income areas to get to the demographic they are in.
Thats me with the tin foil hat on, in reality, considering the cost of cable and what not, which even the low income families have, Verizon consistently beats out comcast and cox on price (no idea about RCN which is in DC), it makes sense for them to position themselves in the lower income areas, there is alot of money to be made.
When it comes to much more spread out areas, where the line between low income poor and upper class is much more defined, my bet would be on Verizon wiring up the upper class areas before the lower ones (and from a business standpoint, that makes alot of sense, Verizon is after all a business and not a charity). I have no issues with this either, as long as they are not spending tax money cherry picking, which I do not believe Verizon is doing. I do however believe they have some tax incentives. When they start using tax payer money (ie the original wired infrastructure), then they have no choice, and should have no choice but to wire everyone. | |
| | | | jjeffeory
join:2002-12-04
USA
| said by wifi4milez :said by puck0114 :Looking at this list of neighborhoods, the whole "cherry picking" argument is completely debunked. Anacostia? Brightwood? Petworth? These are some of the poorest neighborhoods in DC. Amazing isnt it? The whole "redlining" conspiracy is joke, hyped up by websites such as this for no apparent reason. Thankfully some people are able to cut through the crap and see that its not true. No offense, but you've used ONE example there in DC ( which I have a condo in Dupont Circle, so I know a little about DC) and extrapolated that to the entire U.S. It doesn't make sense to do that. | |
| | | | | | | | | axus
join:2001-06-18
Washington, DC
·Verizon Online DSL
| What do you think the negotiations were about? DC officials had to have their say-so on the deal, and put in some poor neighborhoods that Verizon wouldn't have passed if they were given free reign. Check out the deployments by AT&T where they got the state to override city franchise negotiations. | |
| | | | | | | | openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA | Yep, it's similar here on this side of the river too. I live in a nice neighborhood with no FiOS, or even DSL. I can drive to lower income areas and they're full of FiOS. Redlining is a crybaby argument when a have-not doesn't have something. | |
| | | | | | jvanbrecht
join:2007-01-08
Bowie, MD
| Well, considering the neighbourhoods listed, are not exactly cherry picking the good areas, in fact, while some of columbia heights is nice, a good majority of it sucks horribly, is dangerous, and has many low income people. Same goes for much of the South East DC area (although the new stadium is causing the area to go up scale, a good portion is still very much low income subsidized housing, and a very dangerous place to live.
Of course, DC is small compared to some other places like NY, and wiring the entire city would not really be a major issue. | |
| | | dcdeadbeat
join:2008-10-07
Washington, DC
·Covad Communications
| Re: i find it funny that said by jvanbrecht :Well, considering the neighbourhoods listed, are not exactly cherry picking the good areas, in fact, while some of columbia heights is nice, a good majority of it sucks horribly, is dangerous, and has many low income people. Same goes for much of the South East DC area (although the new stadium is causing the area to go up scale, a good portion is still very much low income subsidized housing, and a very dangerous place to live. Of course, DC is small compared to some other places like NY, and wiring the entire city would not really be a major issue. Bowie is not really luxury town. Columbia Heights is not the crime ridden poor slum that you make it out to be. One of Verizon's own execs live in Columbia Heights.
I live in Columbia Heights and our drive by shooting rate is way down. So back off on the dangerous part.
And the low income really doesn't work either since most people that I know in Columbia Heights make more than 6 figures. How else are we affording to purchase $600,000 homes?
Maybe another reason FIOS is going to Petworth and Columbia Heights is that it is the area of the city with the highest growth rate? Just a thought. | |
| | iq100
join:2002-02-06
Cold Spring Harbor, NY
| said by binded2 :... these citys and towns continue to let them get away with ..." No.
It is "US" that lets them get away with this.
The times, they are a changing.
Fiber is a mature technology.
It can now be laid down the center of any street when the road is being painted!
A carbon blade road splitter is added to the rolling painting truck.
The road is slit down the center, the fiber inserted, sealed over, and painted.
Incremental costs are less than $1.00 per home passed.
The times they are a changing.
Time for fiber to be owned by US.
To be put in place by "big" government or contracted trucks.
Like roads are built and owned by US.
Only a lot cheaper and easier to build.
If we can colletively arrange to supply heavy water and sewer pipes to the curb, they surely can supply a very light/thin fiber cable. Without any need to depend on a Verizon or Cablevision. Then let the Verizons, Cablevisions, compete for managing the infrastructure, they do NOT own. Verizon should be paying us for access to our homes and the advertising revenue such access generates. Anyone remember when the basis of Cablevision charging a monthly fee was "commercial free" better quality service than thru the air free service? And what has Internet surfing become other than a cess pool of unsolicited advertisements? Not on the half hour, but on every freakin page.
So blame US.
We let the Verizons and Cablevisons "string us up" with unsightly wires across our manicured back yards. Using land we own. Based on "deals" our politicians cut. How many perks does a politician get for arranging a franchise for a Verizon/Cablevision.
This $100 per home per month nonsense for connection to a fiber infrastructure MUST stop. The problem is US. | |
| 
Cuchulainn
The Roar of the Masses Could be Farts
join:2000-11-09
Chevy Chase, MD
 ·Verizon FIOS
| Odd Assortment of Neighborhoods.. OK - I understand the NW neighborhoods like Tenley, VanNess and Woodley Park. There are folks in those neighborhoods with serious cash. And Columbia Heights, Shepherd Park and Petworth make some sense - lots of twitterblogging hipsters there who'll stump up the cash. But Barry Farms? Brightwood? Doesn't make a lot of sense.
With Fenty and crowd in charge, this thing will be a disaster. I'm just sayin....
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Jesus doesn't own a gun. Or vote Republican.
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| | | | | 
tim_k
Buttons, Bows, Beamer, Shadow, Kasey
Premium
join:2002-02-02
Stewartstown, PA
 ·Millenicom
 ·WildBlue
| Re: Odd Assortment of Neighborhoods.. said by wifi4milez :said by Cuchulainn :OK - I understand the NW neighborhoods like Tenley, VanNess and Woodley Park. There are folks in those neighborhoods with serious cash. And Columbia Heights, Shepherd Park and Petworth make some sense - lots of twitterblogging hipsters there who'll stump up the cash. But Barry Farms? Brightwood? Doesn't make a lot of sense. The whole "redlining" propaganda you read on this website is total NONSENSE. Look at all the areas FIOS was already deployed, its a very good mix of low, medium, and high income areas. Dont believe what you read here (most of the time), it will only add to the confusion of the topic.... Believe me, I've driven by some distribution boxes in some areas where I thought, "how could this area get FIOS and I can't?"
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RIP my babys Buttons 1/15/94-2/9/07 & Beamer 7/24/08, Buttons, Buttons video, Beamer
| |
| | | patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
| said by wifi4milez :The whole "redlining" propaganda you read on this website is total NONSENSE. Look at all the areas FIOS was already deployed, its a very good mix of low, medium, and high income areas. Dont believe what you read here (most of the time), it will only add to the confusion of the topic.... In a city Verizon always starts with the most expensive and most suburban areas in that city/franchise area, then switch to the most expensive and not suburban, then work their way towards the poor over time. Look at NYC's FIOS rollout. | |
| | | | 
wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
·Verizon FIOS
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
 ·RoadRunner Cable
 ·BroadVoice
| Re: Odd Assortment of Neighborhoods.. said by patcat88 :said by wifi4milez :The whole "redlining" propaganda you read on this website is total NONSENSE. Look at all the areas FIOS was already deployed, its a very good mix of low, medium, and high income areas. Dont believe what you read here (most of the time), it will only add to the confusion of the topic.... In a city Verizon always starts with the most expensive and most suburban areas in that city/franchise area, then switch to the most expensive and not suburban, then work their way towards the poor over time. Look at NYC's FIOS rollout. Verizon deploys the service (first) to the area where it is easiest for them to recoup their costs and make a profit (as any business would). This means they will provide service to a more densely populated lower to middle class neighborhood far quicker than a lightly populated upper class one. Its simple economics, NOT redlining.
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Obama = Jimmy Carter part 2
"Secret operations are essential in war; upon them the army relies to make its every move"
-Sun Tzu-
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| | 
aaronwt
Premium
join:2004-11-07
Woodbridge, VA
·Verizon FIOS
4 edits | said by Cuchulainn :OK - I understand the NW neighborhoods like Tenley, VanNess and Woodley Park. There are folks in those neighborhoods with serious cash. And Columbia Heights, Shepherd Park and Petworth make some sense - lots of twitterblogging hipsters there who'll stump up the cash. But Barry Farms? Brightwood? Doesn't make a lot of sense. With Fenty and crowd in charge, this thing will be a disaster. I'm just sayin.... So you're saying those people don't have or want telephone, television, or Internet Service?
That seems unlikely too me. They will want all three services just like in any other area. Verizon, like other providers offer different levels of service. The area a person is located is not indicative of the service they will get.
Fo instance, I know a couple of people that live in different developments, but both developments have houses worth around one million dollars. Both of those people have FIOS and Comcast available to them but neither has any desire to get it. They are prefectly fine with their OTA TV, and with their DSL and phone service over copper.
Even though they could easily afford any tier from either FIOS or Comcast, they have no desire to get it.
And on the flip side I know several people that live in areas where there is low value housing. They also have FIOS and Comcast available to them and some of them pay for the top tiers available from those providers, paying a premium for the service.
Where you live has no bearing on what service a person will get. | |
| | | | | | | binded2
join:2009-08-11
Providence, RI
1 edit | Re: Odd Assortment of Neighborhoods.. said by wifi4milez :said by aaronwt :Verizon, like other providers offer different levels of service. The area a person is located is not indicative of the service they will get. Unfortunately some people who assume the information about the topic posted on this website is true will be confused. We are inundated (almost daily) about how evil Verizon is "redlining", and how only the richest people in the country have FIOS. That is of course completely wrong, so its important the let the readers here know that. i dont think that they hit just the rich. my end of the city is not realy known to be the best where i live but fios is so hit and miss its not even funny
where you talk to the service reps and they tell you that you cant get it but the guy down stairs has it the guy to your right has it but you and the guy to the left of you cant
and yet the fiber is right there or at the end of the st
i think thats what really boils most peples water!!! | |
| | | | | soothsayer15
join:2002-03-01
Irving, TX
1 edit | Re: Odd Assortment of Neighborhoods.. When things like that happen, it's normally because of either database issues or address issues from the city records. City records are used, not postal records. If people decide they are gonna turn a basement or an attic in an apartment, and the municipal records show it is a single family house, then you're gonna have those problems. I worked for an ISP, and that was always a problem in New England.
People think, "They send me bills here, why can't they get me FiOS?" Postal records mean squat for local utilities. I could send a letter to a fake house on a real street, the post office wouldn't know it's fake until they try to deliver it. People assume a lot about what goes on from the outside. Service Reps are there to be salespeople, they are not given engineering info about the physical plant out in the field. People with knowledge of the physical plant aren't sitting by a phone waiting to answer calls from customers. | |
| | | | | | binded2
join:2009-08-11
Providence, RI
| Re: Odd Assortment of Neighborhoods.. said by soothsayer15 :When things like that happen, it's normally because of either database issues or address issues from the city records. City records are used, not postal records. If people decide they are gonna turn a basement or an attic in an apartment, and the municipal records show it is a single family house, then you're gonna have those problems. I worked for an ISP, and that was always a problem in New England. People think, "They send me bills here, why can't they get me FiOS?" Postal records mean squat for local utilities. I could send a letter to a fake house on a real street, the post office wouldn't know it's fake until they try to deliver it. People assume a lot about what goes on from the outside. Service Reps are there to be salespeople, they are not given engineering info about the physical plant out in the field. People with knowledge of the physical plant aren't sitting by a phone waiting to answer calls from customers. ok i hear what your saying but verizon does know that the wires goes down the st they know extactly where they laid there fiber theres no questions about that
it it stands to be crazy when they have you as having service with them be phone or dsl now can you explain that one then
your really not going to sit there and try to say that they dont know what is what
when you go online and look to see if you can get service you can do address or phone number
im sure they know where you are if you have phone service because its all tied in to the 911 system
they know what is what and what is where
just like once you go fios there is no going back to pots because they rip out the copper wireing from the house to the poll
once there done with there roll outs you can pretty much bet that they will sell whats is left of there copper and or just rip that off the polls too
but i guess its what ever | |
| | | | jvanbrecht
join:2007-01-08
Bowie, MD
| I will agree with many peoples points, here and elsewhere, that Verizon does cherry pick the areas they want to be in, but I never said whether those were upper or lower income areas, they are just areas where they will make the most profit. In general, low and middle income areas are probably the most profitable, I know alot of really well off upper class income bracket people, most don't even watch TV that much, and of those alot don't have cable at all, although many do want high speed internet... thats a different story, but I live and breath in the IT sector, so bandwidth is sort of a necessity at times. | |
| | 
cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
| I don't know about recent numbers, but when FiOS came to Fort Wayne, IN the highest adoption rates were in the middle and the "upper" lower class areas, not the upper class areas.
While they may not have more disposable income, I think it was due to having just better service then Comcast. Given the choice between two similarly priced services, they went with the better option. | |
| kirk1233
join:2003-08-15
Pittsburgh, PA | "cherry picking" argument another reason it is invalid is because research has shown the lower class people often will spend more on pay TV that their counterparts... | |
| 
anon
@frontiernet.net
| build out One of the strong points on deployment of fios is the ease of installing the outside plant infrastructure. In most cases the areas with overhead or (aerial distribution) are the first to get wired. Having been part of the original builds in the ny suburb area i can say that is the main reason on build out. These areas are now getting the underground developments an mdu"s wired. In many cases the older outside plant is in areas that are some of the poorest. So the redlining issue is not a real one. If there is no future return as in population density, than it would be the reason to not build out fios.,and is also the reason verizon is looking to offload as much rural area as they can. | |
| 
Morac
join:2001-08-30
Riverside, NJ
·Comcast
| Those could be the only areas in DC to get FIOS Verizon started deploying FIOS in NJ about 3 or 4 years ago. Almost 2 years ago I signed up for a 2 year contract with Comcast with the hope that by the time the contract expired, FIOS would be available in my area. I got excited when Verizon started running new fiber lines near my house development, but that hope turned to despair when I discovered they were just running lines from their main office to the next town over. So even though I can see the Verizon's fiber lines almost from my house, I still can't get FIOS.
As far as I can tell, Verizon has "finished" deploying in NJ and moved on to other states. Likely when they finish with those DC towns, they'll be "done" with DC and move on.
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The Comcast Disney Avatar has been retired. | |
| | sbguymm
join:2009-09-01
Camarillo, CA
| Re: Those could be the only areas in DC to get FIOS Verizon is not finished with NJ - I see offices on the 2010 plan and beyond (please don't ask which ones, I'm not at liberty to say). There are many factors that go into deciding which areas get FIOS and when. One of the biggest stumbling blocks is local government. I'm sure local cable companies are doing their best to lobby against FIOS and it has slowed a lot of work down. In CA, all new communities that were planned for this year were cancelled because of just that. Second, even thought FFTP is much less expensive than copper, it's not cheap. Regions get a certain amount of money to spend and that's it. Third, even if OSP costs were nothing, there is still a huge cost in central office equipment. This is a massive investment and it can't be done in one giant swoop. Verizon's FIOS expansion is dictated by Wall Street and that's just a fact of life. Finally, I've seen some discussion about low-income neighborhoods where it seems to make no sense for FIOs to be installed. The cable companies made a lot of noise that FIOS was just being made available to people who had cash to spend and government decided that a certain percentage of low-income communities needed to be served to balance things out. I'm not making a judgement on whether that is right or wrong, just saying that when you see those FIOS trucks rolling into the ghetto, it's not necessarily because VZ decided it was a good business opportunity. | |
| | | | | | | patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY | Re: Those could be the only areas in DC to get FIOS There is a density requirement (all areas already built out I think), and the County Seat of each County must be wired. | |
| | | | sbguymm
join:2009-09-01
Camarillo, CA | I know that's the way it was advertised in the papers, but it still comes down to local politics. Having a state-wide LFA agreement is just the start and not a guarantee that you can make an agreement with each community. | |
| 
dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ | DC Fibre Doesn't the DC area already have some muni 100/100 for $40/mo? | |
| | patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
| Re: DC Fibre I remember reading about it, its in selected subdivisions in VA. I can't remember their name, but here is a similar jaw dropping amount of residential FTTP ISP »www.paxio.net/ResidentialData . | |
| | patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
| I thought they were in VA in selected subdivisions. I can't remember their name, but here is another insane speeds for super cheap residential ISP that targets selected subdivision. »www.paxio.net/ResidentialData | |
| dmodert66
join:2007-04-02
Ontario, CA
·Verizon FIOS
| Not Cherry Picking... I'm not sure if VZ is cherry picking or not on a county basis. But on a city basis, I can tell you they are not. I live in Ontario, California. It's a big city (size wise), but there are many low income areas here. I live in a middle income area (I guess). Fios was first deployed to the East and South of me. Both of which are lower income areas.
I agree with the fact that some cities are in large part detrimental to fios deployment. For example, a city a few cities south of me is an upper income area (Chino Hills). Fios got approval and started building. When the streets started getting torn up, the "rich folk" freaked out and complained en mass...Then the city started complaining to Verizon. VZ got fed up and said fine, we are out of here...This was several years ago...I think they may have finally started building out Chino Hills again, but I'm not sure...
Another "Upper Income" city, Rancho Cucamonga was held up for so long by the city, that they have just started building this year (I think)... | |
| 
Van
Premium
join:2009-07-08
Washington, DC | As someone who lives in the Woodley-Park area I am EXTREMELY excited as the only internet I can get right now is 3mbs DSL from Verizon
The apartment complex I live in told me that I would be getting FiOS within a few months (2 months ago) so maybe they weren't lying | |
| Valmor
join:2007-03-20
Mechanicsburg, PA | Tenleytown My apartment complex in Tenleytown is monopolized by MDU Communications. They use DirecTV but I can't get HD and the internet packet loss is awful. I hope FiOS comes to Tenley soon. | |
| |
Van
Premium
join:2009-07-08
Washington, DC
·Cox HSI
·Comcast
| Re: Tenleytown You and me both. I quit MDU internet because it was criminal how bad it was....dial-up speed and constant outages.
I use Verizon DSL and it is still painfully slow but all that i can get.
I also have MDU DirecTV with no HD
It really is embarrassing how poor that is...in 2009 | |
| | Valmor
join:2007-03-20
Mechanicsburg, PA | I noticed some fiber trucks working at Ward Circle near American University. Hopefully that means FiOS is coming soon. | |
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