Verizon Bills The Dead, Laughs At Relative Let's play: 'guess the dead man's pin number'... Tipped by fatness 
For years we've explored the difficulties of cancelling telecom services for the deceased. We've seen AOL go so far as to tell relatives that the deceased individual needs to call up and cancel themselves, though more commonly it's just a pain to cancel the deceased person's account unless you have the proper paperwork (sometimes the death certificate, sometimes it's a copy of the account holder's bills or lease). Verizon is the latest to get grief for refusing to cancel a dead man's wireless account, even after getting a death certificate, according to the St. Petersberg Times: Lacy sent the phone company a death certificate, showing her father, Bill Young of Calvin, W.Va., died in June. But not until repeated phone calls and a complaint to the media did Verizon finally cut it off - last week. It seems Lacy did not have her father's PIN (personal identification number) to access the account. So the representative refused to help her. "Well, there's nothing else I can do for you," the representative said before laughing and hanging up the phone. Laughing was certainly a nice touch. The woman ultimately got the account closed and the particular representative was reprimanded, though once again -- not until the consumer contacted the local media consumer watchdog (and such beat reporters are getting more and more scarce). For those interested, The Consumerist has a rough guide for avoiding problems when it's time to cancel service for the dead.
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 |  |  NY TelPremium
join:2004-04-09
Smithtown, NY
kudos:3
 ·AT&T CallVantage
| Re: The hoops one has to jump through Well my uncle Carmine had the same thing happen with his magazine subscription to Life Magazine.
He passed away and they kept billing his estate.
I guess there is Life after death after all.
»www.instantrimshot.com/ | |
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| | WHat if the Media was not contacted? That should have been more then a reprimand, that employee should have been fired. It makes you think however how many people are still paying for service they do not want because they have not contacted the media. Verizon is crooked just like the rest of them. | |
| |  sivranBack to Opera againPremium
join:2003-09-15
Arlington, TX
kudos:1
 ·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: WHat if the Media was not contacted? I agree, the rep should have been fired. As a former call center rep myself, I understand how it could slip past had the media not been contacted. They don't review 100% of calls after all, the sheer number of calls is just too great. So it's not like the agent wasn't disciplined until after the story blew up because anyone was trying to cover it up.
Once word got back to the callcenter that this was a big deal, of course, it'd be a simple thing to find the call recording and the agent responsible.
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I used to think I was a democrat. Then I thought I was a republican. Lately though, I'm just cynical. | |
| |  en102Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA | With the exception of the laughing, the employee was probably following process.
Process is typically the issue. I've been in call centers, scripted output or else. | |
| | | fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3 | Re: WHat if the Media was not contacted? said by en102:With the exception of the laughing, the employee was probably following process. Process is typically the issue. I've been in call centers, scripted output or else. I agree.. and even then, with out a recording of the call, how do we know if the rep even laughed? People tend to embellish when they're frustrated.
But, to "fire" the employee?? Sure.. let's "fire" the employee for following procedure. And even if the employee was not capable of figuring out where to direct the caller, "firing" the employee is just plain-ass a nasty tit-for-tat... how about a more mature approach of "coaching" or "writing them up" and notating that they were properly trained on what to do in case they receive another call like this in the future?
... how about all these people calling for "firing" the employee live by their own rules.. so the next time they do something not quite right, they themselves should simply be "fired".... some times I think people need to take a chill-pill and stop all this BS anger they have set in themselves... it's time for this Nation to take a collective sigh and cool off a bit.
But still, the ONLY thing that catches my eye in this story was the "and they laughed at her" comment... unless a recording was heard to verify it, that's a TOTAL non-point in this story.. seriously. | |
| | | | axus
join:2001-06-18
Washington, DC | Re: WHat if the Media was not contacted? Agree, whoever reviewed the process and approved it should be the one fired. | |
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| | Reviews:
·Hargray Cable
| said by en102:With the exception of the laughing, the employee was probably following process. Process is typically the issue. I've been in call centers, scripted output or else. Probably was a rule that no pin no nothing. It would hit me funny if I couldn't close a dead guys account because the relative didn't have the pin. | |
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|  Grail KnightQui audet adipisciturPremium
join:2003-05-31
Valhalla
kudos:6
·Time Warner Cable
| quote:
That should have been more then a reprimand, that employee should have been fired.
Is that how your company works?
Laughing well a callous gesture on the employees part is just not a firing offense IMO. A verbal or written warning and that also depends on if this was first time or part or not.
--
"I know what dude I am. I'm the dude playing the dude, disguised as another dude." | |
|
 MashikiBalking The Enemy's Plans
join:2002-02-04
Woodstock, ON
·Bright House
·TekSavvy Cable
| Not surprising. I went through something like this a few years ago with my grandmother who died. I was the executor of her estate. Getting cable/natural gas/hydro/telephone/credit card/bank all killed. Even with a death certificate.
The only group that actually did anything right was Canada Post when they redirected all of her mail to my house so I wouldn't have to drive 6hrs to see who's trying to bill the dead. I expect that this problem will only increase as the population gets old. Companies need work on getting their CSR/billing upto speed. In the end I had to go through ombudsman/office of the president to get things done. Took me nearly 6mo, I however did find a lot of black humor in the entire event when they started threatening with collection agencies. And I could reply with "are you going to take a corpse to court/collection." And another copy of the death certificate.
Take a pick of your service/supply industry and you're going to run into problems, and it's not exactly fun after someone dies. It's not limited to just the US or one particular company. | |
| |  DownTheShoreTag, you're itPremium
join:2003-12-02
Beautiful NJ
kudos:11 | Re: Not surprising. I got my brother-in-law's deceased mother's computer after she died. The executor (who lived in another part of the USA) had already terminated all of her credit accounts and utilities. I contacted her dial-up service to cancel her account, but they wouldn't/couldn't do it because I wasn't an actual relative of hers, didn't have her PIN, nor did I have a copy of her death certificate. I had the data & they could have verified it online, but that wasn't an option for them.
I contacted them out of courtesy, so they would terminate the account because their billing would get rejected when it hit the closed accounts; I was going to use another ISP provider anyway.
I wound up letting the whole issue slide, and eventually the account terminated.
What I did feel bad about was that her retained emails indicated that she was active in numerous forums, and I had no way, at the time, of contacting those people since I couldn't use her account. My computer skills were not very great at the time and I didn't know the work-arounds. 
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Patriotism is not waving a flag, it is living the ideals
I want to retire to the Isle of Sodor and ride the trains. | |
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1 edit | In person at a Verizon Store??? I am curious... in such a situation, would it be at all helpful or perhaps more reasonable to attempt to handle the situation in person at a (corporate) Verizon store? It would seem that an in person attempt might yield a better response since the Verizon representative you are working with can see and hold the death certificate.
When attempting to work this over a phone call, the CSR most likely doesn't have physical access to the death certificate and I would assume for a CSR to bypass account security procedures might well get them in trouble should problems arise. Imagine if someone wanted to get out of an ETF, calls and claims they sent the death certificate and wants the account canceled but doesn't know the account PIN, etc -- how does the CSR handle such a situation?
To that end, I think it would behoove companies to have a VERY clear procedure for closing accounts of the deceased. A system of a simple form to fill out and mail with the death certificate (and maybe a copy of a recent bill) and some way of tracking the progress. It really doesn't seem like it should be difficult.
EDIT: In the end, I realize it is best to try and close down the accounts... but if my understanding is correct, the surviving family members can't be held responsible for any charges (the deceased's estate can though) but it would seem as a worse case scenario, just write 'Person Deceased - Return to Sender' on the bill each time it comes and just let Verizon learn a lesson the hard way. | |
| | fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3 | Re: In person at a Verizon Store??? The only thing I can see wrong is the simply writing "person deceased" on an envelope and returning it.. if that were the case, it would be amazing to see the death rate climb for those that subscribe to cellular phone service in an attempt to simply cancel their service. lol | |
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 N3OGHYo Soy Col. "Bat" GuanoPremium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
kudos:1 | Dead man's party It's a dead man's party, who could ask for more
Every body's coming,leave your body at the door
Leave your body and soul phone at the door!
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Petty people are disproportionally corrupted by petty power | |
| |  The Dv8orJust call me Dong Suck Oh, M.D.Premium
join:2001-08-09
Denver, CO | Re: Dead man's party I cant ever think of that song without thinking of Robert Downey Jr fucking with the mixing board and blowing out speakers at Thornton Melon's party.
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You're so vain... I bet you think this post is about you. | |
| | | | | Re: Dead man's party ROTFLMMAO @ the two posts above!!! | |
| | | | Reviews:
 ·Verizon FiOS
·Optimum Online
| Re: Dead man's party Hi there. Are you a large person? Pleasantly plump? A little on the hefty side, perhaps? Well, let's face it: Are you FAT? When you go jogging, do you leave pot-holes? When you make love, do you have to give directions? At the zoo, do the elephants throw YOU peanuts? Do you look at a menu and say 'OK'? Well, now, you can eat all you want, because at Thornton Melon's "Tall & Fat" stores, we've got you covered. That's right. Fine woolen, and woolen-blend suits and sport coats, in all the larger sizes - husky, stout, extra-stout, and the new Hindenburg line. And for you ladies we have caftans, muumuus, and our own exclusive A-frame in all colors and patterns. Yes, we have miles and miles of fabric. So take it from me, Thornton Melon, if you want to look thin, you hang out with fat people. | |
|
 runnoftPremium
join:2003-10-14
Deerfield, IL
kudos:1
·Comcast
2 edits | Been there, done this (as an executor) OK, granted, Verizon reps blew it, so what else is new? Normally, when somebody calls and says, "The customer died," the caller gets transferred to a special department where people are trained to handle it. That likely didn't happen here.
When relatives try to handle this, as a favor to the family, it doesn't go well. It's not the relative's responsibility or even right to get the billing stopped and taken care of. It's the executor's, named in the will or appointed by a probate court. People claiming to be relatives can't be calling up creditors and telling them the person being billed has died, to get the billing stopped, because otherwise people would call up and claim this either to get off the hook themselves or to prank somebody.
Executors know how to handle this with a minimum of fuss, with a stack of the decedent's bills, a stack of certified death certificates, and a stack of certificates naming the executor. They call the company for instructions using the number on the bill and then just fax, e-mail, or mail out documentation of the death as each company requires.
Relatives not named as joint account holders are not responsible for bills of the decedent after the person died. The estate is responsible. The estate will pay if money remains; the executor takes care of it. If the estate doesn't have money, the creditor will normally have to eat the charge. It's a part of the cost of doing business: customers/debtors die at inconvenient times. | |
|  DaveDudeNo Fear
join:1999-09-01
New Jersey
kudos:1 | Customers should record calls I always though that customers should record calls for quality assurance. I have dealt with many rude reps and wont mind have the same ability. | |
| | fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3 | Re: Customers should record calls said by DaveDude:I always though that customers should record calls for quality assurance. I have dealt with many rude reps and wont mind have the same ability. Just make sure you, as the caller, follow recording rules when you do.
This means you have to know the laws of BOTH states in which the call is taking place in.
Example.. MN and CA..
MN is a one party state meaning only ONE of the people on the phone has to know that call is being recorded, not the other.
CA is a two-party state meaning BOTH callers must be aware the conversation is being recorded.
What constitute notice? Either you have to advise them before you record, OR, you must have a beep-tone continually repeating through out the call.
If I call someone in MN, I can record the call all I want. (On a side note, I can do it in public too as the laws govern off-wire recording too) However, if I call into CA, I have to follow CA rules and go through the informing them part of it.
If you call Verizon, for example, and you start recording them, you need to make sure you know what state that call terminated in becuase you're under THEIR rules, not just your own.
Also, say you're in CA and you call into MN... becuase you're in CA, you STILL have to tell someone in MN that you're recording the call because CA law would trump MN's one party rule.
If you ever wonder why when you call a place and it says "calls may be recorded for quality assurance"... it's becuase they're giving you notice that your call is probably going to be recorded which constitutes as notice.
Tell a rep "I'm recording this call" and they will OFTEN misquote the law and simply say "you don't have my permission to record this call" (and just hang up) which isn't always true either. Not to mention, the CSR that simply hangs up becuase you're recording the call.. well, that's a big no-no becuase that CSR just hung up on a customer and wasn't authorized by the company to do so. I can be sure that Comcast and Qwest both, as I've checked, don't care if they're recorded - they both already know that their calls are being recorded becuase THEY themselves already told you the calls may be recorded.
Just a few facts. | |
| | | N3OGHYo Soy Col. "Bat" GuanoPremium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
kudos:1 | Re: Customers should record calls Very good points, fiberguy. Secretly recording or monitoring phone conversations can get one into hot water, well, at the speed of light.
FYI for all you kiddies out there, Pennsylvania is an ALL party state. Recording/monitoring audio without the knowledge or consent of each involved party is an illegal wiretap in PA.
Example. If you're stopped by a state trooper in PA with a dash camera, he/she has to ask your permission to turn the audio recording device on before hand. If the driver declines, the trooper can only record the video....
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Petty people are disproportionally corrupted by petty power | |
| | | | DaveDudeNo Fear
join:1999-09-01
New Jersey
kudos:1 | Re: Customers should record calls Is it possible for a customer to decline being recorded ? Do they have a choice ? | |
| | | | | fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3 | Re: Customers should record calls No.. it's not possible to "not be recorded"... you simply have to be informed that you're being recorded. If you don't want to be recorded, you have the right to terminate the phone call.
The law doesn't state that you have to be ASKED to be recorded... you just have to be informed PRIOR to it being recorded. Along with that, a method of being "informed" is that beep-tone that you hear about ever 5 or 10 seconds. Most places of importance, like 911, etc. will use the beep through out the recording instead of a notice as simply being informed is a weak argument as that can always be spliced into a recording. | |
| | | | | | | | Re: Customers should record calls one would assume that the notice the company themselfs give at the beginning of the call would be sufficiant, after all, if they can record me then i can too. i mean if i cant refuse them to record me it works both ways. and id gladly take the chance in a case like this. | |
| | | | | | | fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3 | Re: Customers should record calls You are correct IF one thing was said... They are telling you it MAY be recorded - that's not implied enough that they are. If they say all calls are recorded for.... bla.. then yes, it's implied that the call is being recorded and you may do so. However, there is one issue... THEY can prove it that you were told because they have accountability on their phone systems.. you don't have that.
IF you started your recording to include the "will be recorded" statement, then yes, you'd be safe. | |
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| | | | What are the rules for India? | |
| | | | fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3
1 edit | Re: Customers should record calls deleted this post.. thought you said Indiana.. not India..
No clue. | |
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| |  japPremium
join:2003-08-10
038xx
1 edit | said by fiberguy:What constitute notice? Either you have to advise them before you record, OR, you must have a beep-tone continually repeating through out the call. I choose to advise by yelling at the wait queue machines. It's where corps solicit/record my personal info and cover their due-diligence ass so I can too. Right? 
Real-world problem resolution on the customer side is to affect the consumer behavior of others via sharing positive & negative anecdotal info. Corps have a brand to nurture and, in the event of a rightfully pissed-off customer, it's all about damage control. The presence of a ill-begot recording isn't going to change the dynamic. Properly handled me thinks a recording can amplify a consumer's influence with little to no risk of reprisal.
In January a Time-Warner Cable (ISP) CustServ woman went semi-ballistic in response to a snarky remark I made about the design of their self-help page. I had intended to post the recording in BBR's TWC ISP thread but disclosure of an agent's name is (rightly) prohibited there. The recording needs crops & bleeps I do not know how to make. | |
| | | | | |  ssj4androidRedefining Reality
join:2002-04-14
Wyoming, MI | Don't they already establish all party consent by the "calls may be recorded" message? Why would you have to do anything extra? | |
| | |  RARPSL
join:1999-12-08
Suffern, NY | said by fiberguy:Just make sure you, as the caller, follow recording rules when you do. This means you have to know the laws of BOTH states in which the call is taking place in. Example.. MN and CA.. MN is a one party state meaning only ONE of the people on the phone has to know that call is being recorded, not the other. CA is a two-party state meaning BOTH callers must be aware the conversation is being recorded. What constitute notice? Either you have to advise them before you record, OR, you must have a beep-tone continually repeating through out the call. If you call Verizon, for example, and you start recording them, you need to make sure you know what state that call terminated in becuase you're under THEIR rules, not just your own. If you ever wonder why when you call a place and it says "calls may be recorded for quality assurance"... it's becuase they're giving you notice that your call is probably going to be recorded which constitutes as notice. Just a few facts. So long as there is a "calls may be recorded for quality assurance" notice, I fail to see why you need to notify the company that YOU are also recording. That notification takes care of the 1party/2party issue (ie: Both Parties are aware of one party doing a recording) as well acting as implied permission for the customer to make their own recording. | |
| | | | | said by fiberguy:said by DaveDude:I always though that customers should record calls for quality assurance. I have dealt with many rude reps and wont mind have the same ability. Just make sure you, as the caller, follow recording rules when you do. This means you have to know the laws of BOTH states in which the call is taking place in. Example.. MN and CA.. MN is a one party state meaning only ONE of the people on the phone has to know that call is being recorded, not the other. CA is a two-party state meaning BOTH callers must be aware the conversation is being recorded. What constitute notice? Either you have to advise them before you record, OR, you must have a beep-tone continually repeating through out the call. If I call someone in MN, I can record the call all I want. (On a side note, I can do it in public too as the laws govern off-wire recording too) However, if I call into CA, I have to follow CA rules and go through the informing them part of it. If you call Verizon, for example, and you start recording them, you need to make sure you know what state that call terminated in becuase you're under THEIR rules, not just your own. Also, say you're in CA and you call into MN... becuase you're in CA, you STILL have to tell someone in MN that you're recording the call because CA law would trump MN's one party rule. If you ever wonder why when you call a place and it says "calls may be recorded for quality assurance"... it's becuase they're giving you notice that your call is probably going to be recorded which constitutes as notice. Tell a rep "I'm recording this call" and they will OFTEN misquote the law and simply say "you don't have my permission to record this call" (and just hang up) which isn't always true either. Not to mention, the CSR that simply hangs up becuase you're recording the call.. well, that's a big no-no becuase that CSR just hung up on a customer and wasn't authorized by the company to do so. I can be sure that Comcast and Qwest both, as I've checked, don't care if they're recorded - they both already know that their calls are being recorded becuase THEY themselves already told you the calls may be recorded. Just a few facts. If a company or person says no to recording and you record, it is illegal wiretapping. All the employee has to say is, "We don't allow you to record this call, and if you don't want us to record this call, you can also refuse."
I always refuse to be recorded for "quality/training purposes" therefore they have to either stop recording or delete the recording upon review. If they argue, I ask for a supervisor. Why? My identity has been stolen twice (working on the 2nd one). I tell them that is the reason upfront. First was a company employee and the others are a bunch of damn lawyers I'm about press criminal charges against. | |
| | | | | That is over the top, you must have more time on your hands than me. | |
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| KearnstdElf WizardPremium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ | some call center phone systems record every single call, but not all calls are ever reviewed for anyone to hear the "please delete this" statement. no clue on if these systems ever "expire" a set of calls that are not flagged as keepers though. id imagine they do after some point delete calls that have not been reviewed in x number of months just to save on disk space though.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
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| | Recording phone calls... Is there an App for that? | |
| | PittsPghPremium
join:2003-08-21
Pittsburgh, PA
kudos:1 | Re: Recording phone calls... said by Mang :
Is there an App for that?
There is for the Android phones. I never installed it though. Yet.
Paul | |
|
| | My obligitory repost.. for everytime a Verizon billing horror story rears it's head.
Saw advertised 2 phone special and made order for a set of phones, got order confirm number, got two phone numbers sent via email, weeks go by and phones never appear.
Called Verizon support, was told they had no record of phones being ordered, offered us another set, said if the first set arrived they would take care of the problem, no fuss, no muss, they would bend over backwards to make us happy.
Got new phones, activated them, used them for two months. Then second set of phones, first we ordered, arrived. Took sticker from box, never touched anything else inside package, expedited second set, again first ordered, back to Verizon via UPS, very pricey to do so.
Began six (6) months of billing hell. Accusations of my wife and I being thieves from the CSR's we talked to. Accused of trying to rip off Verizon, later to the tune of thousands of dollars. After hours wasted each month of this would finally talk to someone who realized the second set, again first ordered, again arriving to us months later, were never activated, were indeed sent back, were indeed signed for by a Verizon employee. Always told charges were dropped, problem fixed, no fuss, no muss, here they were bending over backwards for us, that is until the next month and next bill for our "phantom" phones would arrive.
In the end Verizon officially NEVER admitted to their Error. Claimed to write off the now 3 thousand dollar phone bill incurred for phones we never activated, owned, used, or even really saw. Pretty much laid blame at our feet and proceeded to ding my credit report for multiple unpaid bills on the "phantom" phones. In the end all I could do is dispute, wait until another six months went by and cancel my contract on the set I was using.
Years later, I still have a bad credit mark on my report, and Verizon still haven't changed their billing practices much.
If they were the last cellphone carrier left in the states I wouldn't use them. | |
| | | | Re: My obligitory repost..
And upon reading your horror story, I feel compelled to add mine:
(and yes, I realize that Verizon and VZW are different)
Edited for brevity....
We called VZ to install a DS1 at our office.
VZ asks for address, we provide it to them.
VZ says "your address is wrong, we can't find it.
Seeing as we're standing in office, we argue that point.
VZ insists that they cannot not find address
We call VZ to order DSL line.
VZ asks for address, we provide it to them.
VZ says "ok, we'll be out on (insert day) to install
VZ comes to physical address, installs DSL
DSL works just fine.
VZ now sends bills to our physical address. We receive them.
We call VZ back install a DS1 at our office.
VZ asks for address, we provide it to them.
VZ insists that they cannot find address, hence cannot install DS1.......
......Lather, rinse, repeat. At the end of the day, f&*k VZ. I feel your pain. | |
| | | | | Re: My obligitory repost.. I guess contacting another provider is out of the question? I would be willing to bet there is a Clec in your area that would love to have the business. | |
| | | | | | Re: My obligitory repost.. We found a suitable alternative... | |
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| | othas3
join:2002-07-15
Los Angeles, CA | I understand the address thing. Unfortunately, there is no electronic magic being done when you order DS* service and the CSR or internet says, "please hold while I check to see if you're eligible for service". They're just checking a database or spreadsheet of addresses, and not "probing" your phone line.
Example 1
A neighbor was told that DSL was not available in his area. He lived at xx23 1/2, while I lived at xx17 1/2, and our landlord lived next to me in 17 3/4, and we both had DSL. (Note: the neighborhood wasn't that great, but we were 1 mile from the C/O...5000 down almost made getting shot at worth it!)
Example 2
My friend found this out when he tried to get DSL for a coffee shop that he frequented in a shopping center. Because of an error in the suite number, DSL was not available in the area even though a business upstairs had it. | |
|
slckusrPremium
join:2003-03-17
Maumee, OH
kudos:1 | in other news so for dead people we are supposed to disco no questions asked theres a couple "special" circumstances where ive asked for proof.
2 sides to every story. | |
| Reviews:
 ·SONIC.NET
1 edit | ETF for the dead When my brother-in-law died from cancer they billed his estate the early termination fee because he had the nerve to die before his cell phone contract ended. My was the executrix. We presented the death certificate but they said too bad. I will NEVER use this company for anything. | |
| |  aaronwtPremium
join:2004-11-07
Woodbridge, VA
·Verizon FiOS
| Re: ETF for the dead said by loadmaster:When my brother-in-law died from cancer they billed his estate the early termination fee because he had the nerve to die before his cell phone contract ended. My was the executrix. We presented the death certificate but they said too bad. I will NEVER use this company for anything. Does dying get the estate off the hook for the bills? If not then an ETF is justified unless it's written in the contract otherwise. | |
| | | Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
| Re: ETF for the dead Technically the estate is liable for all debts, as long as there is money in the estate to pay the debts. But as a matter of customer service you would think that they would waive this ETF because he clearly had not chosen to void his contract by dying Some debtors waived their debts, others agreed to accept a reduced amount. Verizon would not negotiate. | |
| | | | Reviews:
·Comcast
·CenturyLink
·ViaTalk
·EarthLink
| Re: ETF for the dead said by loadmaster:Technically the estate is liable for all debts, as long as there is money in the estate to pay the debts. But as a matter of customer service you would think that they would waive this ETF because he clearly had not chosen to void his contract by dying Some debtors waived their debts, others agreed to accept a reduced amount. Verizon would not negotiate. Wouldn't that be the same type of "Acts of God" that they use for things that they have no control over that impedes your use of their services. Looks like they can dodge the bullet. But you can't using the same methods. | |
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| fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3 | As harsh as this may sound... if the estate has the money, then yea, the estate has to pay the ETF fee too.
Why should they not bill the estate? ... so everyone else in the family can have that extra money that may be available?
While its sad to see lives cut short, the estate does outlive the person. Just becuase someone dies, and yes, it sounds rude and harsh, but the fact is the company didn't kill the customer... and the customer IS in fact owed money for the ETF fee as well. If the estate didn't have the money, the provider would have to write it off.
I mean, too, it's not like VZ would get the phone back, would they? (Not that they would want it back, it's used... but my point is that sometimes people don't really think about this stuff) This is why we have value in our property that we can't take with us.. we have life insurance, etc.. it's to pay off obligations, bills, burial (which THAT isn't free either) and what ever is left over, well, THEN the survivors can have at it. | |
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| | We don't need no stinking PINS quote:
It seems Lacy did not have her father's PIN (personal identification number) to access the account. So the representative refused to help her
I find this highly unlikely.
My college aged son walked into a local Verizon store to change his phone number, for a phone on our family plan, and when asked for the PIN he responded that he didn't know it. The Verizon employee's response... "No problem, it's ****, now let's get that number changed for you."
I feel so very secure. | |
| | fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3
1 edit | Re: We don't need no stinking PINS The PIN is stupid.. it was an FCC mandate though.. and yea, it was supposed to make us safer, probably from terrorists who were going to wreak havoc on us by calling phone companies and adding additional services to customers across America.
But, to your post.. if you go in to a store, in person, and show ID, that is acceptable and they can reveal or change your pin for you... that's how it works. The PIN protects you when you're calling in over the phone. Things like Driver License numbers, and even SSN's can be known between people.. so the Pin is something personal. | |
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 maartenaElmoPremium
join:2002-05-10
Orange, CA
kudos:1
·AT&T U-Verse
 ·DIRECTV
| Been there done that. My father in-law passed away. The phone line was always in his name, and remained in his name as my mother in-law simply continued with the same phone number and continued to pay the bills. He passed away in 1999. In 2002 we finally hook her up to the internet. She already had dial-up, but it was time for DSL.
The DSL was in HER name. (On the phone line that was in HIS name still at that point).
Both DSL and phone line were with AT&T (then SBC).
Come 2003-ish or so, my wife and her mom finally decide to go through all the name changes that weren't done, among which was the phone line.
Now catch this.... what should be a simple name change in a database became a HUGE fustercluck. First, they wanted a death certificate. Now that wasn't a problem as we had those or could request those rather easily, it was just a hassle.
We mailed them the death certificate. A week or 2 later we get a call. They can't complete the name change because their was DSL on the line on a different name.
Yeah no kidding, as I had mentioned above here she had applied for DSL three years after he died and got it installed under HER name, which of course was also the name we were changing the phone line to.
And this is where the fustercluck begins. What should have been as easy as changing the first name, DOB, and perhaps the SSN, three entries in a database somewhere, to match the same information as the DSL line..... could ONLY be done if they first CANCELLED the DSL line, then proceeded with the name change on the phone line, and then SIGNED UP for a NEW DSL line, and have it installed. This would cause a downtime of about 2 to 3 weeks, which was the average DSL install time at the time.
To make things even worse: When we hooked her up to DSL, which was late 2002 or so, we signed her with a 2 year contract so she could get the free modem. That wasn't a big deal, as she wasn't expecting to move, nor expecting to cancel any time soon, and it saved her a bunch of money.
When we wanted to do the name change, we were a good 9 months or so into the contract and had about a year and 3 months to go still. Now, to pull off this cancel, then name changes, then sign up again deal, they wanted to charge us a $175 cancellation fee.
This is where I just about lost it on the phone, as I was the person dealing with it all. I felt it was absolutely ridiculous that to make a name change on a analog phone line, we had to cancel DSL, and on top of that pay an early termination fee, even though we were going to sign right back up as soon as the process was complete. I demanded to speak with a supervisor, which I got, and after explaining it all over again..... he then decided to waive the early termination fee, but ONLY if we were signing up for a new account with him on the phone.
Of course we wanted to actually keep the email address she wanted, and with this supervisor's idea it would be lost as we would have to sign up for a new account first, and then cancel the old one. (which is how they guaranteed continuation of business.) In the end they came up with some sort of construction where the old account would transfer to a dial-up account with the same email address, for which we would have to pay a month, and then have that email address transferred to the new DSL account.
And so it happened. And you think it was done the way it should have been done? Of course not! AT&T in al their wisdom of course shipped out a new modem, so now she had 2 DSL modems. The two modems were IDENTICAL, except for the serial number and mac address. We hooked it up, of course only to find that the modem wasn't provisioned. So we called, tell them what happened..... and they ask me to verify the modem number, I read it, they tell me they have a different hardware address on file. I grab the old modem (which did have a MARK because it got knocked of the desk once on a tile floor, so we knew it was the old one) and sure enough, THAT was the number they provisioned it for. Go figure.
Well, we get it to work with the OLD modem. So I ask them what I need to do with the new modem. And this is what they told me: "You can just keep it. It is a model we will be discontinuing in the next month or so. Use it as a paperweight."
What a waste of money, time, and effort. All of this..... just to change a few entries in a database somewhere. It was the most ass-backwards name change procedure we had to deal with.
Even the cable company said: No problem. Just FAX us a copy of the death certificate and we'll have it done before the next billing cycle.
Its things like that.... that really keep me away from the phone company - or at least AT&T - for anything.
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"I reject your reality and substitute my own!" | |
| brawneyPremium
join:2002-03-02
Frederick, MD | Verizon Billing Sucks Thats why I've dumped my land line voice and DSL already and will be dumping my wireless as soon as I can avoid the ETF! | |
| ricep5Premium
join:2000-08-07
Jacksonville, FL | Cell Companies, AOL Same Problem Has same issues with my dad's Cingular account and AOL.
Cingular wanted to charge an ETF. The agreement clearly states (back then) that death of account holder negates the ETF. But I couldn't find a person or department who wanted to have anything to do with an account closure. It was like the plague. They begged me to transfer the account to someone else, no I said, close the account.
So what do I get? An ETF. After 2 straight weeks of haggling on the phone with Cingular supervisors who mistakenly think death does not overrule an ETF, I finally went to a Cingular retail store and got the manager. He tried to get out of it saying its between you and customer service. So I asked him, do you work for Cingular? (Yes). Is that Cingular on the sign out front (Yes) Is that Cingular on the ETF bill? (Yes, he says) So I asked him what his problem was.
The ETF was waived in 20 minutes.
AOL was easier. They did the silly "don't bill for 60 days" routine, which was just enough time to get the credit card canceled. Sure enough, 90 days later Discover Fraud Alert called me to say that AOL was attempting to put a bill through. I called AOL and they tried to convince me there was account activity. Uh? The man is dead! I asked the rep if they had dial up access in heaven, he said no and so I hung up.
That was the end of AOL. | |
| | | | Re: Cell Companies, AOL Same Problem seen this happen before other then phone. say lawyer and bam you get much father or lawsuit | |
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| | Let it go If this happens in your family then just let it go. Who are they (the service company) going to send the bill to? Let them send bills for years. The only person that is responsible for the bill is the person who's name is on the bill. If they try to get a judgement in court then go to court and show the death certificate to the judge. Explain that you tried to cancel the service but they wouldn't listen. The judge will laugh at the company and kick their butt out the door.
Hey if these companies want to be stupid then let them. | |
| |  VanPremium
join:2009-07-08
New Orleans, LA | Re: Let it go said by Ioweyou :
If this happens in your family then just let it go. Who are they (the service company) going to send the bill to? Let them send bills for years. The only person that is responsible for the bill is the person who's name is on the bill. If they try to get a judgement in court then go to court and show the death certificate to the judge. Explain that you tried to cancel the service but they wouldn't listen. The judge will laugh at the company and kick their butt out the door.
Hey if these companies want to be stupid then let them.
Well, make sure you save all information about trying to cancel the service.
There is no reason to make your life or family members lives more complicated then it already is and allowing your parents bills to pile up does nothing but complicate any post-death issues with their estate. | |
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VanPremium
join:2009-07-08
New Orleans, LA | I would be interested in hearing if she really did laugh. It is easy to say that if she is upset at the service she is getting.
Sounds a bit over-the-top of a story, imo. | |
| | runnoftPremium
join:2003-10-14
Deerfield, IL
kudos:1 Reviews:
·Comcast
1 edit | Re: I would be interested in hearing if she really Often, the truth on these "unhappy customer" stories is somewhere in the middle. If you could hear the recorded call, you might well conclude the customer had spun their side of the story in such a way as to make the company look as bad as possible. For example, in this case, the customer might have gotten frustrated that the CSR did not express sympathy at the loss and seemed cold and unhelpful, and the customer might have cursed out the CSR. The CSR chuckles and says she can't help the customer and ends the call. The customer leaves the cursing out of the story and spins the chuckling as being laughing at the death.
Of course, sometimes the company was 100% at fault. I suspect this customer drew a new and inadequately trained CSR. Companies the size of Verizon have special desks or departments with specially trained CSRs that the call should be transferred to when someone calls on behalf of a dead customer to get the account canceled and paid off. That didn't happen here. | |
|
 ROCINANTEOriginal Member 007Premium
join:1999-06-29
Hartsdale, NY | On the other hand... you don't have to do a damn thing to stop any kind of benefits from being paid out after a relative dies. SSA and other government pensions put a lock on the accounts soon after death is pronounced. And try getting access to a dead relative's account, even when it is jointly owned.
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CRUNCH THIS! | |
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