 
More Fiber
Premium,MVM
join:2005-09-26
West Chester, PA |  Verizon CEO Confident He'll Get Lost DSL Customers Back
quote:
Only next year, after Verizon hits their 18 million homes passed mark, will the telco decide what to do next with FiOS.
Like fixing poor customer service? | |
|  | 
Voyager2K2
join:2001-10-04
Wayne, PA
 ·Verizon FIOS
| Re: Verizon CEO Confident He'll Get Lost DSL Customers Back said by More Fiber  : quote:
Only next year, after Verizon hits their 18 million homes passed mark, will the telco decide what to do next with FiOS.
Like fixing poor customer service? Since back in 1999, Paraphrasing Justin: Warm bodies to answer phones are always going to be the biggest expense for broadband providers.
What do you want? Cheap or somebody to hold your hand every time there is a problem? I have been with VZ since 1999 and I always was able to get my DSL (now FIOS) worked out in a day or two (once). | |
| | | jc100
join:2002-04-10
 ·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: Verizon CEO Confident He'll Get Lost DSL Customers Back What many are not aware of is those warm bodies ARE NOT even Verizon employees. The same as sprint and other companies. The work for an organization called Teleperformance. How do I know this fact? I have had friends who worked with sprint and verizon. Basically, you are hired by Teleperformance and then subcontracted to the respective company. More or less, my friend said his training was watching a few videos and taking a few written tests to know the basics. So there goes your answer why we have warm bodies. Nothing is done in house. Training, while lasting a few weeks, seems to be sub par. In the end, you're left with people who don't directly work for the company they represent. There by, you remove any reason for them to give 2 shits or feel they have to go beyond simple answers. Sad but true. We all know if verizon was cutting their pay checks (same with Sprint's shit customer support), there might be a little better service. After all, people tend to work harder when A) Trained well B) are at the mercy of their company doing well for having an income =). | |
| | | | 
Niarlan
Excelsior
Premium
join:2002-11-09
Manville, NJ | Re: Verizon CEO Confident He'll Get Lost DSL Customers Back At least wireless is done almost all internal. | |
| | | | | jc100
join:2002-04-10
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: Verizon CEO Confident He'll Get Lost DSL Customers Back That I'm not sure about, so I'll take your word. Call support, that's definitely external. Hence, I think if these companies REALLY want to improve upon things, they'd resolve this problem. If you got your OWN staff that you train properly, you then insure consistency. When you subcontract, you are at the mercy of that company to do it all. Plus, people feel less obligated to care when their job is not directly associated with said company's performance. | |
| | | | | GreatBambino
join:2002-05-13
Rexburg, ID | Most verizon wireless techs don't really work for verizon either. They are contracted out as well. How do I know this? I have a friend that is a tech at a store near me and I have a friend at a store in virginia that has told me the same. | |
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dennismurphy
Put me on hold? I'll put YOU on hold
Premium
join:2002-11-19
Parsippany, NJ
·Optimum Online
| Re: Verizon CEO Confident He'll Get Lost DSL Customers Back said by GreatBambino :Most verizon wireless techs don't really work for verizon either. They are contracted out as well. How do I know this? I have a friend that is a tech at a store near me and I have a friend at a store in virginia that has told me the same. The store technicians - yes, those are contracted out to a single provider.
The call center folks? All in-house. There are "overflow" contracts in place - so that if the regular call center is too busy, you'll get an outsourced person... BUT keep in mind that NONE of them -- VZW employees OR outsourced people -- are overseas. Everyone is right here in America.
N-O-N-E of Verizon Wireless is contracted overseas. Not the call centers, not the technicians, not the programmers, nobody. Everyone is here in America.
As someone once said ...
"The customers are here... the employees are here... the network is here ... why send support overseas?" | |
| | | | | | | Techie714
join:2005-08-02
Anaheim, CA | Re: Verizon CEO Confident He'll Get Lost DSL Customers Back Hey thats good to know. Companies that do that have my dollars! | |
| | | | 
lolwhat
We Are Toast
Premium
join:2001-06-11
USSA
 ·AT&T Midwest
 ·Future Nine Corpor..
| As one of those former Teleperformance employees - actually, I worked at CallTech before Teleperformance acquired them - I can tell you more reasons that people don't give a shit:
* I was paid nine dollars an hour, and I couldn't get "benefits" (a term I use loosely) before ninety days of employment.
* I might get yelled at, later on, by Quality Assurance if I couldn't resolve a customer's problem. I definitely got yelled at, immediately, by the floor supervisor if a call were taking longer than x number of minutes, no matter how complex the problem was. Some supervisors would outright encourage people to hang up in the middle of a long call; one was fired for actually hitting the End Call button himself on numerous occasions.
* The floor supervisors also had other, passive-aggressive ways to take it out on you if you "messed up their numbers." In one case, I was denied a reward (albeit meager) that I was supposed to receive for extremely positive feedback from one customer. The supervisors were getting pressure from higher up the chain, of course, but it was they who directly made your life miserable. The upper ranks didn't soil their shoes in the call centers, unless they were having a press conference with some public official.
I could go on, but I think you see my point. Even if Verizon wrote your paychecks directly, how motivated would you be? | |
| | | | 
mystryfiostk
join:2008-07-17
00000
| said by jc100 :What many are not aware of is those warm bodies ARE NOT even Verizon employees. The same as sprint and other companies. The work for an organization called Teleperformance. How do I know this fact? I have had friends who worked with sprint and verizon. Basically, you are hired by Teleperformance and then subcontracted to the respective company. More or less, my friend said his training was watching a few videos and taking a few written tests to know the basics. So there goes your answer why we have warm bodies. Nothing is done in house. Training, while lasting a few weeks, seems to be sub par. In the end, you're left with people who don't directly work for the company they represent. There by, you remove any reason for them to give 2 shits or feel they have to go beyond simple answers. Sad but true. We all know if verizon was cutting their pay checks (same with Sprint's shit customer support), there might be a little better service. After all, people tend to work harder when A) Trained well B) are at the mercy of their company doing well for having an income =). Someone's talking out their azzz.
The overwhelming percentage of calls to a Verizon FSC are answered by Verizon union employees.
I don't need a friend of a friend to know this. | |
| | | | br1an
join:2003-09-21
Syracuse, NY
| said by jc100 :What many are not aware of is those warm bodies ARE NOT even Verizon employees. The same as sprint and other companies. The work for an organization called Teleperformance. How do I know this fact? I have had friends who worked with sprint and verizon. Basically, you are hired by Teleperformance and then subcontracted to the respective company. More or less, my friend said his training was watching a few videos and taking a few written tests to know the basics. So there goes your answer why we have warm bodies. Nothing is done in house. Training, while lasting a few weeks, seems to be sub par. In the end, you're left with people who don't directly work for the company they represent. There by, you remove any reason for them to give 2 shits or feel they have to go beyond simple answers. Sad but true. We all know if verizon was cutting their pay checks (same with Sprint's shit customer support), there might be a little better service. After all, people tend to work harder when A) Trained well B) are at the mercy of their company doing well for having an income =). jc100 please do some research before you ever decide again to make such a completely misinformed and ridiculous post. Both technical support and customer service are Verizon Union Jobs, and they pay quite well. When you call in, you are usually going to get routed to a Verizon employee in the closest call center to your geographic region who will do their best to help you. | |
| | | | | 
fios grunt
@verizon.net | Re: Verizon CEO Confident He'll Get Lost DSL Customers Back vol (verizon online) is a dlec (Data Local Exchange Carrier) and the call centers are overseas... fios fsc agents are in the states | |
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More Fiber
Premium,MVM
join:2005-09-26
West Chester, PA
·Bay Area Internet ..
| said by Voyager2K2 :What do you want? Cheap or somebody to hold your hand every time there is a problem? I don't need somebody to hold my hand. What I detest is having to sit on hold for an hour or more to get through to somebody in billing to correct a bill that a) should have been right in the first place, b) was supposedly "fixed" the last time I called, and c) drags out month after month.
said by Tzale :Verizon FIOS is a pretty flawless service. I think you're confusing the product and the support. I agree FiOS is a technically superior product. I'm talking about the FSC and billing.
Apparently you've never had to call billing to get an issue resolved and wait in the call queue for hours, only to have someone tell you they will take card of it, and it doesn't get taken care of, or had to call the FSC to replace a dead router, only to be told it's my PC. | |
| | | | | 
HD_Ride
Premium
join:2000-10-18
Trenton, NJ
·VoicePulse
·Verizon FIOS
| Re: Verizon CEO Confident He'll Get Lost DSL Customers Back said by Tzale :said by More Fiber : quote:
Only next year, after Verizon hits their 18 million homes passed mark, will the telco decide what to do next with FiOS.
Like fixing poor customer service? What poor customer service? Verizon FIOS is a pretty flawless service. I have not had one complaint with it in the year that I have had it. -Tzale The “Service” and "Customer Service" are two different animals. Yes the service is the best, even the DLS service we had for 7 years must have had a 99.9% uptime for us. I think 3 or 4 times within that 7 year time period the DSL service went down, then maybe another 3 or 4 email outages, not bad for 7.5 years. Fios has been stable as well but the flip side is their customer service still sucks. It looks like you are a long time member; you must have seen a billing or install horror story along the way. Every time I’ve made the slightest service change it has triggered a billing error nightmare. Then you call and go though Auto-Assistant Hell before you actually get to speak to a live person. if you are really lucky your issue may get resolved in one or two billing cycles. the only thing that keeps us onboard is the service itself, it certainly isn't the customer service | |
| 
birdfeedr
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-11
Warwick, RI
·Verizon FIOS
| Confident? quote:
But Verizon CEO Ivan Seidenberg seems confident that they'll be seeing lost landline and DSL customers again at a later date.
The later date begins when VZ manages to start pulling the copper down and rely on fiber exclusively in areas where fiber is already deployed.
There are a few hurdles to that plan, though. Getting the regulators to permit it won't be easy. And installing ONTs at every location on the copper network is an expensive proposition.
Solution? Use fiber to a node for rural areas where copper takes it the rest of the way. FTTP will only work in a denser location. FTTN may happen but they won't call it FiOS. Maybe FiOSLite™. 
Sounds a lot like UVerse, doesn't it? At least the big boxes won't be such a problem if they are sited properly. | |
| | 
Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
Host:
Road Runner
PC gaming GAMES
PC gaming Tech
| Re: Confident? Solution? Use fiber to a node for rural areas where copper takes it the rest of the way. FTTP will only work in a denser location. FTTN may happen but they won't call it FiOS. Maybe FiOSLite™. My guess as well. I would bet they keep calling it FiOS, though....they just only offer certain speeds in those markets. No marketing guy is going to brand the product limitations into the product name... | |
| | | ITALIAN926
join:2003-08-16
Stratford, CT | Re: Confident? Wrong... when enough houses are wired up theyll go the rest of the way with ONT's to the house. Those that dont want it can find another provider. Years away from this though... years and years. | |
| | | |
Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02 | Re: Confident? Maybe. Guess we'll see next year. | |
| | | | | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| Re: Confident? Fiber in rural areas being un-sustainable is a weak argument. I agree that it's not going to take priority over city areas, however, I don't see ANY company throwing fiber to the node at any point. It would be a waste of money.
They're fiber everything at some point, I don't see stop gap measures in the mean time.. the rural areas will just be last - as they should be.
There are small rural fiber areas in the country by smaller providers.. it's not exactly a bank breaker like some believe it is. | |
| | | | patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
| That will happen, its obvious.
If Verizon has to provide copper loops by law, they will sell remaining copper plant to Embarq/Fairpoint/Centurytel who will double or triple the price, chasing away all urban users to FIOS (telco won't care, its goal is to get as many customers off, and then use falling market share and disappearing customers to justify the state approving tarrif increases), rural users will just get screwed like always by price increases. Also extreme deferred maintenance, and reducing pair counts on replacement plant, will be part of the telcos business model. If you think about it, the only consumer level product Verizon can't offer over FIOS is a dry loop. T1, easy, POTS voice and renting it out to a CLEC as UNE-P, easy, P2P POTS voice, easy, DSL speed internet, easy, decent speed internet, easy (but with caps/"security guidelines" to prevent business use).
Rural areas were never profitable and never will be, they won't get FIOS, or they will get limited village downtown+subdivisions deployment (2 mile radius deployments), which will stop any real voter protests against lack of FIOS.
AFAIK, there is no legal requirement of having a copper loop to anywhere. Most state universal service rules seem to be worded in a way which make them useless, its a anti-discrimination rule now that basically says "if you pass the person, you must offer them service [you can't say "no POTS for you because your black or your house is red"]". It doesn't require plant extensions. If there were rules about mandatory plant extensions, they were taken off the books years ago, but by then all rural areas had POTS. Also POTS has nothing to do with copper or fiber delivery. Many non-Baby Bell telcos met the universal service requirements with USF subsidized fixed radiotelephone. So I think aslong as Verizon offers POTS and CLEC resellable POTS over FIOS, they will meet all regulations, a copper loop is just an unregulated service like SONET or DSL. | |
| | | | | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| Re: Confident? I agree with much of what you say, however, call me silly, but, rules can and do change.
If we get those in congress that feel that the consumer is owed, they could conceivably mandate that all new builds require fiber instead. Sure, it's a dream, but you never know.. SOMEONE could possibly wake up. Hey.. we're finally cutting off Analog in February.. possibly.  (we'll see what obama says) but still.. you never know what the future holds. | |
| 
BF69
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN
| How many are now FiOS customers I'm wondering if they done any research into how many of thos e"lost" DSL customers dumped DSL for FiOS. Because I don't consider that a "lost" customer.
Oh and for Verizon, at&t and and other DSL isp looking for new customers. EXPAND YOUR BASE. I know people that lvie just outsdie city limits that would LOVE to give you ther money if you would only offer them service. You can provide them phone service you can provide DSL. And before any dolt tries to give me a lesson is DSL tehcnobable yes it CAN be done. | |
| | 
jeffhambone
Peace, through superior firepower
join:2002-02-02
Manassas, VA
·Comcast
·Cox HSI
1 edit | Re: How many are now FiOS customers said by BF69 :(snip) Oh and for Verizon, at&t and and other DSL isp looking for new customers. EXPAND YOUR BASE. I know people that lvie just outsdie city limits that would LOVE to give you ther money if you would only offer them service. (snip) Good point. I would love to kick Comcast to the curb. Alas, Verizon is distracted with (i.e., resource limited by) FiOS deployments in other parts of Virginia, and the population density in my area apparently isn't high enough to attract CLEC investment, either.
--
Son, there's only one thing you need to know: HEMI | |
| | 
SteveCon
IBEW 2222 Boston, MA
Premium
join:2004-09-02
Burlington, MA
·Verizon FIOS
| Yeah - it can be done, but... speed and reliability will suffer. The technology constantly advances and faster speeds extend further into the plant, today more than ever before. In the future, it will likely be extended even further than it does today. Advancing the technology is part of the problem.
Another part is load coils on these long pairs. For those that do not know - load coils are the several coils of wire that the phone company installs at regular intervals in long pairs of cable to correct or offset the capacitance that naturally occurs between very long conductors. Excessive capacitance will significantly reduce the sound quality of phone calls. The coils provide inductance which counteracts this capacitance. The result is intelligible conversation over these long wires. Unfortunately, load coils are not compatible with DSL as they effectively block those signals. At the distances from the CO, all of the pairs at these distances are loaded (unless fed via pair gain or light span to a remote terminal) and will require the removal of the coils.
The long and short of it is that the further away from the CO to get DSL to a customer, the maximum reliable speed goes down and the costs go up - significantly.
--
The Labor Movement - those wonderful folks that brought you the weekend! | |
| | |
BF69
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN
| Re: How many are now FiOS customers said by SteveCon :Yeah - it can be done, but... speed and reliability will suffer. ANY kind of service > no service
The long and short of it is that the further away from the CO to get DSL to a customer, the maximum reliable speed goes down and the costs go up - significantly.
as I said before ANY kind of service > no service. As far as cost, these companies can take the USF fees they've been taking from us all these decades and start using them in a productive manner. It's MY fricken money. I believe I should have some say so WTF they do with it.
Also if the area is too far from the CO oh I don't know.....um.... build another fricken CO? | |
| | | | patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
| Re: How many are now FiOS customers said by BF69 :As far as cost, these companies can take the USF fees they've been taking from us all these decades and start using them in a productive manner. It's MY fricken money. I believe I should have some say so WTF they do with it. You don't want the USF to pay for DSL. Its rate will quadruple, since every telco will demand it for broadband, and all existing money getters (corrupt schools, corporate costs for telcos) will demand for their cut of the fund to return to old levels percentage wise before the quadrupling citing inflation. | |
| | | Hooper
Premium
join:2001-10-22
Villanova, PA | Again with the Rural Broadband Redlining Can we give this a rest please? Until our socialist president regulates "rural" broadband, Verizon is under no obligation to provide service where it is not economically viable. | |
| |
birdfeedr
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-11
Warwick, RI
·Verizon FIOS
| Re: Again with the Rural Broadband Redlining said by Hooper :Can we give this a rest please? Do you think that mentioning rural areas are underserved (for whatever reasons) is akin to socialist drumbeating? And should therefore be silenced?
Any attempt to make a forecast includes looking at what may happen and what form that change may take. I see no comments in the article anywhere close to declaring that broadband deployment be required to every possible drop. | |
| |
BF69
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN
1 edit | said by Hooper :Can we give this a rest please? Until our socialist president regulates "rural" broadband, Verizon is under no obligation to provide service where it is not economically viable. Did I say redlining. fact is that it IS economically viable. The fact you can't see that means you are obtuse and not worth bothering with. 2+2=4 no matter how badly you wish it to be 5.
using YOUR logic vast swaths of our country would still not have POTS service or electricity. I am 100% posistive both the power companies and telcos are now HAPPY that they were FORCED to offer services to these areas decades ago because they have made BILLIONS upon BILLION in profits from these rural areas since then. FACT! | |
| | | patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
| Re: Again with the Rural Broadband Redlining said by BF69 :I am 100% posistive both the power companies and telcos are now HAPPY that they were FORCED to offer services to these areas decades ago because they have made BILLIONS upon BILLION in profits from these rural areas since then. FACT! Wrong, they only amortize for 10 years on the plant. Any revenue after that is accidental. Maintenance costs and low if any USF for baby bells means rural is always a loss. In a city, they expect atleast 10 customers in 600 feet. In a rural area its 1 or 2 customers per 600 feet, or worse. Exponentially less. | |
| | | | Nuts
join:2006-04-27
Forest, OH
| Re: Again with the Rural Broadband Redlining said by patcat88 :Wrong, they only amortize for 10 years on the plant. Any revenue after that is accidental. Maintenance costs and low if any USF for baby bells means rural is always a loss. In a city, they expect atleast 10 customers in 600 feet. In a rural area its 1 or 2 customers per 600 feet, or worse. Exponentially less. Thats always the problem when people talk about rural. There are different levels of rural desity. There are people on these boards that think a village for less than 1000 is rural (or because there isn't a starbucks), but the fact is that it isn't rural. Looking around the area, there are a lot more homes than there was even 15 yrs ago. | |
| | | Hooper
Premium
join:2001-10-22
Villanova, PA
| said by BF69 :using YOUR logic vast swaths of our country would still not have POTS service or electricity. I am 100% posistive both the power companies and telcos are now HAPPY that they were FORCED to offer services to these areas decades ago because they have made BILLIONS upon BILLION in profits from these rural areas since then. FACT! Without regulation many parts of this country would still not have what we consider basic services. The infrastructure costs are exorbitant. | |
| | 
MrMaster
What If
Premium
join:2000-12-16
Austin, TX
clubs: | Bush is a socialist?
plenty of names for him but socialist isn't one of them. | |
| | | Hooper
Premium
join:2001-10-22
Villanova, PA
| Re: Again with the Rural Broadband Redlining said by MrMaster :Bush is a socialist? plenty of names for him but socialist isn't one of them. Talking about Obama. Bush is pretty much out of the loop now. | |
| | fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| said by Hooper :Can we give this a rest please? Until our socialist president regulates "rural" broadband, Verizon is under no obligation to provide service where it is not economically viable. .. right, becuase everything is done at the federal level. 
FYI, maybe you should re-think your post. In some areas, providers have been required to provide more services to more areas in exchange for things like, um, getting into long distance.. ala Qwest in MN...
Blanket statements are never pretty. | |
| | | Hooper
Premium
join:2001-10-22
Villanova, PA
| Re: Again with the Rural Broadband Redlining said by fiberguy :.. right, becuase everything is done at the federal level. FYI, maybe you should re-think your post. In some areas, providers have been required to provide more services to more areas in exchange for things like, um, getting into long distance.. ala Qwest in MN... Blanket statements are never pretty. State laws are allowed to be more restrictive than federal law.
My statement was in reference to proposed national broadband policies. Karl's statement could very well be construed at the state level as well. So in that you are correct. | |
|
daxxx
@verizon.com | Sure they have confidence Thats why they keep laying off employees and cutting back money used in operations to support FIOS. | |
| 
n2jtx
join:2001-01-13
Glen Head, NY
·Optimum Online
| FiOS Versus Cablevision My area was "wired" with FiOS this past summer but I have yet to see an advertisement for it. Verizon still sends me DSL ads all the time and no mention made about FiOS. Still, in those areas where FiOS is available, there has not been a major defection from Cablevision. There is no price advantage between the two so if you are happy with your service, you tend to stay put.
--
I support the right to keep and arm bears. | |
| | hottboiinnc
ME
join:2003-10-15
Toledo, OH
·buckeye cable
| Re: FiOS Versus Cablevision Same with U-Suck here. Especially after the $10per month rate hike on U-200 (which at least 6 channels are "customer information channels") and where they COUNT the music channels as part of the package. and if you have U-100 you're DVR price just went up. But to get the channels you get on Buckeye SD TV you have to buy the U-200 package. No price savings once you figure in the STBs ATT requires you to have. | |
|
Rick0204
@verizon.net | Call Centers in India Stop using the lousy accent laden call centers in India and you might actually increase your numbers. After each call to India's tech support I want to call my cable company to switch. | |
| 
Rickez
Goinginsane
join:2000-09-02
Three Rivers, MA | Verizon DSL?!?!?! | |
| | 
skullz5
join:2002-06-17
Clementon, NJ | Re: Verizon DSL?!?!?! I totally agree, been there & done that TWICE!!! | |
| 
perki
join:2008-12-01
Santa Maria, CA | Bring FIOS TO SANTA MARIA CA. I'll get the most expensive package. I promise. | |
| tmc8080
join:2004-04-24
Floral Park, NY
| Huh? Is there a combination Verizon DSL / VOIP box with battery backup I don't know about?
Barring that... cost concerned customers (ccc) will only do dual play with voip... not pots, that's the only way to stop defections to cable or alternative cell carriers (think pre-paid & not verizon). | |
| 
mike1965
Geek4rent
join:2002-09-23
Marion, IL
| Losing customers and doing nothing about it there are several more reasons verizon is losing customers
I have 3.0 service, I have been trying to get 7.1...no dice even though local techs have told me it is here, A friend of mine tried to get DSL and they told him the CO is full and they cannot give him service.
At work we have a local DSL service because Verizon was not available when they got it, verizon is not available however all they can provide is 768 service because once again the CO is full even though we are only 3,500 out.
I asked when they would upgrade and the agent told me not to expect it because they were focusing on FIOS.
Verizon is ignoring copper...THAT is why they are losing customers, if I haad another option they would lose me
--
Free computer help »geek4rent.us | |
| | Bob61571
join:2008-08-08
Washington, IL
1 edit | Re: Losing customers and doing nothing about it - | |
| | | | Bob61571
join:2008-08-08
Washington, IL
·Verizon Online DSL
| said by mike1965 :I asked when they would upgrade and the agent told me not to expect it because they were focusing on FIOS. Verizon is ignoring copper...THAT is why they are losing customers, if I haad another option they would lose me mike1965,
It's real tough for Verizon to focus on FiOS in Illinois, since no one in Illinois has it!
In fact, the only FiOS Midwest area is Ft. Wayne(and 2 suburbs), Indiana. | |
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Verizon CEO Confident He'll Get Lost DSL Customers Back
