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Verizon CFO: Unlimited Is Just a Word
Company Insists Shared Data a Hit, Offers no Proof
by Karl Bode 10:37AM Friday Sep 21 2012 Tipped by BellBoy See Profile
Speaking at an investor conference this week Verizon Chief Financial Officer Fran Shammo insisted the company's shared data plans are being well received, and despite T-Mobile's recent return to unlimited wireless data, insisted that the option is going the way of the dinosaur. Verizon launched their shared data plans back in June to mixed reviews, its steep $15 per GB overage and per device fees countering most of the savings provided by offering unlimited voice and text. A recent study found that the plans confuse many customers, with 40% preferring to switch carrier than lose the option of unlimited data.

Verizon is busily insisting that unlimited is dead because that's very much what they'd like to happen, despite indication that there's many, many customers who still prefer the simplicity of the option -- even if they have to pay a premium for it. Shammo insisted that "many" customers were leaving their unlimited data plans for shared data, but failed to provide any hard numbers whatsoever:
quote:
"We're surprised on share from many different aspects," Shammo said during a Goldman Sachs investor conference presentation in New York. "The thing that really surprises us is a lot of people are coming off unlimited to go to share." "Unlimited is just a word," said Shammo. "It doesn't really mean anything....The whole unlimited thing is going by the wayside."
Unlimited may be just a word, but it's a word Verizon would very much like to go away. It's also a word that has long been abused by the industry, as Verizon found out in 2007 when they were sued by NY's Attorney General for pretending EVDO service with a 5 GB cap was unlimited. It remains unclear if Verizon can kill off unlimited through sheer willpower alone, but it's fairly clear that they intend to try.

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Lone Wolf
Almost Retired
Premium
join:2001-12-30
USA
kudos:1

But

People still flock to Verizon to get a discounted phone and pay 2 to 3 times what I pay monthly.

Makes no sense.

BTW, since last November, Sprint stock more than doubled. Watch out Verizon!

RR Conductor
NWP RR Inc.,serving NW CA
Premium
join:2002-04-02
Redwood Valley, CA
kudos:1

Re: But

said by Lone Wolf:

People still flock to Verizon to get a discounted phone and pay 2 to 3 times what I pay monthly.

Makes no sense.

BTW, since last November, Sprint stock more than doubled. Watch out Verizon!

One word, coverage, Verizon has more of it, and more of that is 3G and 4G than any other carrier. Sprint is no contender to Verizon, you should see Sprint's lousy coverage in NorCal, or should I say lousy un coverage (they don't even cover my county of Mendocino). Yep, in NorCal if you want good coverage, Verizon, AT&T and U.S. Cellular are the best choices, T-Mobile would be next. Sprint might be okay in urban areas, outside of there forget it, and the majority of the land mass in the US is NOT urban, or even suburban.
--
»www.amtrak.com
»www.freightrailworks.org
»www.isu.edu
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»www.amtrakcalifornia.com
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n2jtx

join:2001-01-13
Glen Head, NY

Re: But

I have no interest in giving money to either VZW or AT&T but I have to admit the VZW network does work well. Both my sister and I have iPhone 4S's. She's on VZW and I am on Sprint. Side by side she was able to browse and do things with 3G data while my phone barely moved. Her phone behaved like it was on WiFi (but we had that turned off for comparison). My Sprint service is paid for by my employer so I cannot really complain but if I had to pay for Sprint out of my own pocket, I would go to another provider or get a phone that did not require a data plan.
--
I support the right to keep and arm bears.

88615298
Premium
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness
said by Lone Wolf:

People still flock to Verizon to get a discounted phone and pay 2 to 3 times what I pay monthly.

Makes no sense.

BTW, since last November, Sprint stock more than doubled. Watch out Verizon!

Yeah yeah Sprint is so wonderful. Let me know when the actually offer service in my area until then it's all talk.

batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ
said by Lone Wolf:

BTW, since last November, Sprint stock more than doubled. Watch out Verizon!

Sprint, that is funny; I live 30 miles from Times Square and Sprint told me they don't have the necessities to supply me service.

I love DSL Reports; being a joke it makes me laugh.

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

1 recommendation

Meh...

If "unlimited" is just a word, then...

"Death is but a door; time is but a window... I'll be back!"

It's Friday... gotta have some fun.
--
Romney/Ryan 2012 - Put a couple of mature adults in charge.
Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:1

Re: Meh...

said by pnh102:

If "unlimited" is just a word, then...

"Death is but a door; time is but a window... I'll be back!"

It's Friday... gotta have some fun.

RIM might be needing that quote soon. Though instead of a painting they will come back in the form of a productless patent troll.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports
rdmiller

join:2005-09-23
Richmond, VA

Who gets the most data?

Obviously, its the one with the least cartilage in his left knee.

PaulHikeS2

join:2003-03-06
Manchester, NH
Reviews:
·Comcast

Why are people coming off unlimited?

Easy...they are coming off unlimited because the have to if they want an upgraded phone able to take advantage to 4G and if they don't want to pay full retail. A bit misleading of Verizon - but essentially true that perople ARE switching.
--
Jay: What the @#$% is the internet???

spewak
R.I.P Dadkins
Premium
join:2001-08-07
Elk Grove, CA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·SureWest Internet

Re: Why are people coming off unlimited?

You just nailed it. Verizon will embellish the facts of course, but the subs are being forced to in order to get the latest and greatest.

--

Romney equals Epic Fail!
itguy05

join:2005-06-17
Carlisle, PA
That's why I'm holding on to my iPhone 4S and unlimited until it dies. And then I'll asses the offerings of the carriers and go with the one that offers the best deal at the time. 3G is fine by me.

morbo
Complete Your Transaction

join:2002-01-22
00000

Re: Why are people coming off unlimited?

You can still upgrade phones; you just have to pay retail price for it.
slckusr
Premium
join:2003-03-17
Greenville, SC
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Charter

Re: Why are people coming off unlimited?

said by morbo:

You can still upgrade phones; you just have to pay retail price for it.

or craigslist/ebay retail prices.

AMejia1976

join:2000-07-29
Kissimmee, FL
BINGO!!!!!
IS either go shared or go bust. There is no option to stay with what you have. Customers are FORCED to get on Shared... Unless they want to pay $600 for a phone...

How can that be a surprise when you are are forcing and not given a REAL choice?

@
--
Semper Fi
Crookshanks

join:2008-02-04
Binghamton, NY

Re: Why are people coming off unlimited?

No, it's a real choice, you just don't happen to like Option #2.

Get used to paying full price for your cell phone, because carrier subsidies will probably be gone by the end of the decade. It costs them a ridiculous amount of money to subsidize your smartphone purchase. The only reason they're still doing it is because smartphones are a growth industry, and they want to snap up as many customers as they can before it matures.

Once the market matures there will be no incentive for them to keep subsidizing your phone. An additional consideration will be the fact that we'll have a truly universal (LTE) standard, once VoLTE is figured out there will be no need to have carrier specific phones.

88615298
Premium
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness
said by AMejia1976:

BINGO!!!!!
IS either go shared or go bust. There is no option to stay with what you have. Customers are FORCED to get on Shared... Unless they want to pay $600 for a phone...

How can that be a surprise when you are are forcing and not given a REAL choice?

@

Yu know carriers don't have to offer discounts in the first place. I love how people think a phone with a 2/3 discount is some sort of right and if they don't get it they are somehow being fucked over.

FLATLINE

join:2007-02-27
Buffalo, NY

Re: Why are people coming off unlimited?

Cmon man, you must know better than that. First off no phone is actually worth $600 to begin with. Second, there is NO DISCOUNT. That inflated cost of the phone is then paid for by wrapping it up in your monthly bill. Its all smoke and mirrors my friend and you fell for it.
Expand your moderator at work

anonimust

@verizon.net

Re: Why are people coming off unlimited?

If that statement were true, then why are Apple's shares through the roof? Because consumers have deemed that the Iphone is worth $600. Verizon pays $400 upfront to Apple, and you pay the other $199 when you purchase it which also goes to Apple. Apple collects $600 per Iphone which has made them worth billions.

Also in other countries it is quite normal to pay unsubsidized prices for phones. Americans just don't know how good they have it.
esjki

join:2001-06-03
Vista, CA
Because with ATT and Verizon (and the idiots) who pay for "unlimited" get overage fee's, how can these A-holes legally claim "Unlimited" yet you have a cap with outrageous overage fee's. For all those who pay for the "unlimited plans" knowing you have a cap....... you're fools who feed the worthless Corporate Giants, which in return bend you over that much more with the next idea of falsification on goods/services sold!!!! All in the name of i had it 1st egotistical trend-following attitudes!!!
old_wiz_60

join:2005-06-03
Bedford, MA
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

Shared data

is just a ploy to get a huge increase in the amount people pay per month. If you are a single person it can add $40 to your cost while reducing the amount of data you can use.

Shared data is just Verizon's latest price increases in a different name.

FFH
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5

Unlimited has life if Sprint & T-Mobile get act together

Unlimited still can have a long life if Sprint & T-Mobile can get their acts together. People go to & stay with Verizon, despite the limited shared data plans, for 1 main reason - COVERAGE. Until Sprint & TMO improve their coverage, they will remain 2nd tier players.
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elefante72

join:2010-12-03
East Amherst, NY

1 recommendation

Unlimited Users

What he is saying is that all of those "brave" iSheep that said they were going to pay $700 for an iPhone to keep their unlimited plan caved when they got to the register and turned in their unlimited plans to get the phone at $200, which is of course what the rules were designed to do.

This is the reason that subsidies exist, people can't make rational economic decisions and that's why they did what they did.

By subsidizing the phones, this artificially keeps monthly charges up higher, because if people had to pay cash for their phones up front, I guarantee Apples stock wouldn't be $700 and monthly phone bills would go down at least $20 a month. So in the meantime postpaid pays that subsidy into Samsung and Apple coffers.

If you look at it over 2 years the "premium" to keeping unlimited is about $20/month if you lease the iPhone.

Nobody said that you had to buy a new phone though, and this just confirms my suspicion that people behave in predictable irrational ways.
Os

join:2011-01-26
US

Asshole is Just a Word

That's you, Fran Shammo. Seriously.

And Verizon is laughing hysterically at the iTrash idiots.
en103

join:2011-05-02

Company Insists Shared Data a Hit

The phase 'Company Insists Shared Data a Hit' may be true... to their investors and Wall Street, but not always the case for the individual user

Chris123NT

join:2001-11-24
Nesconset, NY

Ugh

People are giving up their unlimited because as soon as you go into the store to make a change to your plan or upgrade your phone they FORCE you onto shared data if you have multiple devices. They make it prohibitively expensive to keep the old plans.
elefante72

join:2010-12-03
East Amherst, NY

1 recommendation

Re: Ugh

They don't force you, you need to make an economic decision which by signing a 2 year contract was one. So to unwind it, that may be expensive, but you could always sell those phone as you now own them.

If you have kids, putting them on a shared plan is a recipe for disaster. Prepaid for kids should be mandatory

I for one buy 1 year old used phones from people who can't wait for under $200 and then put them on contract-free prepaid.

I don't like the phone: Off to CL or ebay
I don't like the carrier, Off to another one.

Even if you must stay on Verizon (I dont) pageplus offers unlimited and 2 GB of data for $55. If you are keen and buy discounted cards you can get it for $50 with no tax. Is it 3G yes, but so was every iPhone until this AM.

And for the parents they get PPC flip phones (yes they still exist) for $70 for the year as they are minimal users.

If you want to walk in the Lexus showroom, expect to pay.

The last time I had a cell phone contract was back in the days of Cellular One and they used to hit me with roaming fees all the time.

gatorkram
Need for Speed
Premium
join:2002-07-22
Winterville, NC
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Suddenlink

Works for me.

I am happy with the new shared plan I have with Verizon, I can explain why.

I have their home phone connect, I have a xoom, and I have a cell phone.

I had 450 mins talk, and unlimited text on my phone, but only 75K of data

I had a 1gig plan for my xoom

My phone was stuck using almost no data at all, and my xoom had more than I was using.

So it cost me about $1 more to move to the new plan, from my three old ones, and I gained "unlimited" voice, and all the data is shared, so my phone isn't so limited anymore.
--
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elefante72

join:2010-12-03
East Amherst, NY

Re: Works for me.

That's assuming you never go over your data pool, but I agree the flexibility of tablets is alluring at first. If you can use wifi to manage your phone and tablet this can be reasonable and you can ditch the cell access point (home connect). Good job...

I think in all the discourse people don't realize that if they sign up for these plans, you could easily ditch the landline and save yourself some $$$. You could always port your landline (with a two step) to google voice and voila....

In your case this definitely works out

The issue is that people with just phones on the account are royally screwed. They are the margin expansion targets for the next two years....

They want to encourage consumption, so people start adding other devices on the account and think they are getting a deal because the pricing is better than it was, but in the end you could pay dearly without proper data management tools and metering software. That is the crime.....
themagicone

join:2003-08-13
Osseo, MN

Like other said a price increase

For me to switch to the new plan my bill would jump almost $100/month. Not to mention I would loose 3 unlimited plans, $60/month in discounts and what ever else they decide to take. Holding out as long as I can.
slckusr
Premium
join:2003-03-17
Greenville, SC
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Charter

Re: Like other said a price increase

to switch from 3 lines with unlimited to the new shared plan I would of paid 10 dollars more for less(besides any data overages), ok well more minutes I guess.....

So I switched to 1 line and saved 101$ a month and got to keep my unlimited data :P
Crookshanks

join:2008-02-04
Binghamton, NY
said by themagicone:

For me to switch to the new plan my bill would jump almost $100/month. Not to mention I would loose 3 unlimited plans, $60/month in discounts and what ever else they decide to take. Holding out as long as I can.

Employer discounts are offered on the new plans, they only apply to the data portion though, not the device fees. Not saying that you should switch, not hardly, just pointing out that they haven't completely taken away employer discounts!
themagicone

join:2003-08-13
Osseo, MN

Re: Like other said a price increase

Those yes I would keep. What I would loose is the $20/month loyalty discount I get on each of my data plans that I have had for years. I have 3 smartphones and 2 dumb ones. New shared plan before taxes, insurance, etc would be around $270/month. Right now I pay $200/month total - taxes, insurance on every line, etc and their below the line charges.

caphitter

@comcastbusiness.net

Its a "HIT" when you reach your cap!

We decided to try out the verizon concept with three phones and 5Gb per month. So far two months in a row we hit our caps and paid $30 in overages.

And we are not heavy users. one of two thoughts. Verizon is messing up on the calculation, or they are charging to listen to the Voicemail on the iphone direct by sending the voicemail as data. I get allot of voicemail.

call Verizon

@verizon.net

Everyone with verizon account

I just called verizon and told them i'm moving to sprint, after trying to tell me i don't need unlimited data for 20 min, he pulled my account and i used 10.5gb this month. he said to give them a few months they will have higher data planes that wouild save me money, he did tell me he got a lot of calls today from people who told him they are moving to sprint and t-m, guys keep calling, they will get the pic.

88615298
Premium
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness

No proof?

I wonder if someone came out with an article stating how bad Share Everything was doing if Karl would ask for proof? Or is proof only required with points he disagrees with?
tmc8080

join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY
Reviews:
·ooma
·Optimum Online
·Verizon FiOS

A year from now..

I can't wait to see Verizon's numbers a year from now.. all these price hikes are going to push customers away.. it's just a matter of time.. it's alot harder to hide customer loss these days even though they try to keep customers on the books by delaying their refunds due to them.

Higher prices in wireless AND wireline are going to hurt Verizon. Let's see how long they can be arrogant with higher prices theme... I have plenty of time until my cableco price lock expires.. and even off discount I'd still save money over the sky's the limit FIOS prices.

Fiber Optic
Internet
Overpriced
Stuck in a bundled contract to get any discount

88615298
Premium
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness

Re: A year from now..

said by tmc8080:

I can't wait to see Verizon's numbers a year from now.. all these price hikes are going to push customers away.. it's just a matter of time..

You know some people actually DO save with Share Everything. To say Share Everything is a price hike is being hyperbolic.
tmc8080

join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY
Reviews:
·ooma
·Optimum Online
·Verizon FiOS

Re: A year from now..

said by 88615298:

said by tmc8080:

I can't wait to see Verizon's numbers a year from now.. all these price hikes are going to push customers away.. it's just a matter of time..

You know some people actually DO save with Share Everything. To say Share Everything is a price hike is being hyperbolic.

Everything has a point of view.. these are all just words here as the thread says.. unlimited is just a word, so is overcharge.. price hike is two words, lol. The main idea is Verizon seeks to change the rules for data sales in a way that increases revenue for them.. possibly for multiple lines this might make sense, since they decide to keep truly unlimited at the ~$100 a month pricepoint if they decide to offer it at all. Nevertheless, you have to weigh a SHARED data plan against what else is available in the market.. and that is to say "unlimited" prepaid options around $40 - $60 a month each. These offer primary data at fast speeds and then throttle down typically. The most compatible will be StraightTalk and Net10 because they mostly use AT&T and Verizon as MVNO partners. So, people have choices and until they fully check out what works in back of the envelope math and weighing the pros and cons of prepaid phones/service (plus bottom line costs) you really can't paint a broad picture and say Verizon's service is in eveyone's best interest. The simple fact is, postpaid account growth is slowing precisely because of higher costs from the two big carriers. When the gravy train stops flowing carriers will have to reassess whether they wish to continue with these consumption based billing pratices and/or offer better & more cost effective options.

big corporations are testing to see how much people are willing to pay in this new world era (post 2001, 2003) for goods and services. These (postpaid) models may work for a while, but eventually the model breaks down and stops working. That's why the MVNO/prepaid model is there to fall back upon- rather than have these customers not buy cellphone service at all..

Birdie13

@myvzw.com

Options besides shared

If you are currently on a family plan with two smart phones but you do no want shared among those two does the family plan still stay and what amount of data do you get for what price? Example one smart phone upgraded at subsidized price thus losing unlimited data.
Bubblenrun

join:2009-08-20
Watertown, TN

1 edit
If you are currently on a family plan with two smart phones but you do no want shared among those two does the family plan still stay and what amount of data do you get for what price? Example one smart phone upgraded at subsidized price thus losing unlimited data.
Edit - Asking as to options with Verizon, I think the answer is you get 2GB. That was what it was between unlimited and the current share everything plan but on their site they only show prepaid and share everything plan.
firedrakes

join:2009-01-29
Arcadia, FL

Re: Options besides shared

unlimited till you hit 5GB then it goes to 2 g speeds
apathetic

join:2005-07-05
Richmond, VA

2 recommendations

Give the option to have shared data or unlimited data.. we'll see which one is a hit.

ronmax11

@verizon.net
i pay $100 for the first phone unlimited everything and $30 for date, each additional phone is $50 and 30 for unlimited data. 8 phone unlimited data
$450+240 for date $690. new plane 40 per phone 320 + $150 for 20gb $470. that not a big saving to give up unlimited data.