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Verizon Close to Selling Off More DSL Users

For a few months now Verizon employees have been whispering in my ear that they've been hearing rumors of another large Verizon fixed-line network asset (POTS, DSL) sale -- specifically some or all of California, Florida and Texas assets to CenturyLink. To be clear, none of these insiders could offer corroborating evidence of this, and Verizon wouldn't respond to my request for comment. Still, the rumors have persisted, and they make sense for a company that can't seem to ditch its unwanted DSL users fast enough.

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Speaking at a recent investor conference Verizon CEO Lowell McAdam stated the company is exploring selling off more unwanted copper users as the carrier increasingly focuses its affections on wireless. "There are certain assets on the wireline side that would be better off in somebody else's hands so we can focus our energy on a narrower geography," McAdam said.

To hear the Wall Street Journal tell it, we may be getting some solid news on a sale soon. Verizon's eager to help pay off some of the $10 billion cost recently incurred at the AWS-3 auction, though the Journal doesn't get specific on which assets will be getting the axe, or who will be doing the buying:

quote:
Verizon Communications Inc. is close to selling a package of assets including cellphone towers and parts of its wireline business, a group of deals that will bring in more than $10 billion, people familiar with the matter said.

The deals will involve different buyers and could be announced as soon as later this week, the people said. The deals comes as Verizon is working to pay down debt and cover the $10.4 billion in wireless licenses it won in a government auction that closed last week.


The company has struggled to find buyers for these assets after the offloading of millions of DSL and phone customers to Frontier Communications and Fairpoint. By using a Reverse Morris Trust to narrow tax obligations and offload debt to the acquiring companies Verizon made out like a champ, though both of the receiving companies struggled under heavy financial burden. Fairpoint in particularly wound up filing for bankruptcy, though some wondered if that wasn't the plan all along.

CenturyLink still seems like the most likely option for any acquisitions moving forward, though Verizon so eager to offload these markets I'm guessing the deal will likely be much more favorable to the buyer than in deals past.
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silbaco
Premium Member
join:2009-08-03
USA

1 recommendation

silbaco

Premium Member

Centurylink

Centurylink shouldn't be spending money they don't have on buying more users. If this does turn out to be true and they are the company that is buying, then I don't see this turning out well for the existing or newly acquired customers.

swintec
Premium Member
join:2003-12-19
Alfred, ME

swintec

Premium Member

Re: Centurylink

I have a vision that Verizon buys these areas back for pennies in the future from these small time phone companies when they completely go under. What do they see in the wireline phone business?
pandora
Premium Member
join:2001-06-01
Outland

1 recommendation

pandora

Premium Member

Re: Centurylink

I suspect DSL is being sold off as it either isn't profitable, or the technology leads nowhere.

rit56
join:2000-12-01
New York, NY

1 recommendation

rit56

Member

Re: Centurylink

and it is no longer considered broadband.
pandora
Premium Member
join:2001-06-01
Outland

pandora

Premium Member

Re: Centurylink

said by rit56:

and it is no longer considered broadband.

So is Karl complaining that Verizon doesn't want to be involved in a scam where non-broadband is sold to poor innocents as broadband?

Maybe it's time the FCC ordered all DSL torn down due to it's fraudulent nature?
54761437 (banned)
join:2013-01-18
Durham, NC

54761437 (banned)

Member

Re: Centurylink

said by pandora:

said by rit56:

and it is no longer considered broadband.

So is Karl complaining that Verizon doesn't want to be involved in a scam where non-broadband is sold to poor innocents as broadband?

Maybe it's time the FCC ordered all DSL torn down due to it's fraudulent nature?

Sounds good to me. DSL is garbage.
pandora
Premium Member
join:2001-06-01
Outland

pandora

Premium Member

Re: Centurylink

said by 54761437:

said by pandora:

said by rit56:

and it is no longer considered broadband.

So is Karl complaining that Verizon doesn't want to be involved in a scam where non-broadband is sold to poor innocents as broadband?

Maybe it's time the FCC ordered all DSL torn down due to it's fraudulent nature?

Sounds good to me. DSL is garbage.

Good how about an FCC campaign 25 or nothing?
54761437 (banned)
join:2013-01-18
Durham, NC

54761437 (banned)

Member

Re: Centurylink

Don't worry. Verizon and AT&T are already hanging up on DSL customers and attempting to push them onto expensive, capped LTE is part of their "IP transition". The customer gets screwed either way, but can we at least hold ISPs' feet to the fire for *once*?
coryw
join:2013-12-22
Flagstaff, AZ

coryw

Member

Re: Centurylink

The IP transition and AT&T trying to get rid of old ATM-based DSL services are different issues.

The IP transition is about connecting regional or city-wide phone switches together using IP networks instead of TDM links. It's completely unrelated to the last mile, and the last mile can still be served by POTS or by existing VoIP services such as U-Verse and FiOS Digital Voice. Also, all cable company phone lines are VoIP already.

AT&T getting rid of ATM-based DSL services is both about shedding unprofitable and hard to maintain landlines that nobody uses for anything but data, and in the most profitable areas, converting those data subscriptions to a better platform for which they can get parts.

They're sort of related, but only in that AT&T is doing both of them and they're both happening now. You can fully blame AT&T for trying to kill off copper lines without replacing them, because they are doing that, but it's not at all related to the IP transition, which is entirely about voice backbones, and has nothing whatsoever to do with last-mile or end-user delivery of that voice service.
54761437 (banned)
join:2013-01-18
Durham, NC

54761437 (banned)

Member

Re: Centurylink

said by coryw:

The IP transition and AT&T trying to get rid of old ATM-based DSL services are different issues.

The IP transition is about connecting regional or city-wide phone switches together using IP networks instead of TDM links. It's completely unrelated to the last mile, and the last mile can still be served by POTS or by existing VoIP services such as U-Verse and FiOS Digital Voice. Also, all cable company phone lines are VoIP already.

AT&T getting rid of ATM-based DSL services is both about shedding unprofitable and hard to maintain landlines that nobody uses for anything but data, and in the most profitable areas, converting those data subscriptions to a better platform for which they can get parts.

They're sort of related, but only in that AT&T is doing both of them and they're both happening now. You can fully blame AT&T for trying to kill off copper lines without replacing them, because they are doing that, but it's not at all related to the IP transition, which is entirely about voice backbones, and has nothing whatsoever to do with last-mile or end-user delivery of that voice service.

When you say "IP networks", what exactly does that mean? Are they laying new fiber or lighting dark fiber? Are they upgrading equipment at COs and leaving VRAD/FTTH deployment untouched?
coryw
join:2013-12-22
Flagstaff, AZ

coryw

Member

Re: Centurylink

They would be using IP packets on fiber between the COs to transmit your voice, instead of TDM.

The IP transition is entirely about CO-to-CO transmission of voice calls. It has no things to do with end-user delivery of data services, nor does it even necessarily have anything to do with the availability of a plain copper home phone service.
BiggA
Premium Member
join:2005-11-23
Central CT

BiggA

Premium Member

Re: Centurylink

Yeah, that makes a lot more sense. It would assume it would also mean upgrading all RDLAMs that aren't already on IP to IP.
TransitJohn
join:2009-05-08
Denver, CO

TransitJohn to 54761437

Member

to 54761437
I don't know, my $40/month Centurylink 60M/20M DSL service is pretty much not garbage.
54761437 (banned)
join:2013-01-18
Durham, NC

54761437 (banned)

Member

Re: Centurylink

said by TransitJohn:

I don't know, my $40/month Centurylink 60M/20M DSL service is pretty much not garbage.

Yes, you're lucky enough to be in one of the ex-Qwest markets where fiber was actually deployed. Most people in Centurylink's coverage area aren't that lucky.
xthepeoplesx
join:2013-10-21

xthepeoplesx to TransitJohn

Member

to TransitJohn
I have CenturyLink at 90$ a month for 8mbps/0.896mbps... I feel bad for these people having to deal with CL.
coryw
join:2013-12-22
Flagstaff, AZ

coryw to pandora

Member

to pandora
How is DSL fraudulent? A company sells you a connection and at the time they sold it to you, they told you how fast it was capable of going. Is there something fraudulent about that?

Is some company that's deploying DSL selling it as broadband, or asking for new federal money to deploy DSL at speeds slower than 25/3?
54761437 (banned)
join:2013-01-18
Durham, NC

54761437 (banned)

Member

Re: Centurylink

Oh, you mean like all those times a telco will sell you DSL at 6, 7, 10, 12, 15, 18, etc. Mbit and then, upon activating your service, you're told the best you can get is substantially less than that because of overselling, distance, poor line conditions? Sounds like textbook fraud to sell one thing and deliver less.
coryw
join:2013-12-22
Flagstaff, AZ

coryw

Member

Re: Centurylink

That's different than DSL in and of itself being fraud. Most (all?) of the telcos give you a 30-day guarantee and they usually give you an opportunity to cancel the install the moment they find out you can't get the speed their qualification database originally listed.

And, if you're persistent enough and it's due to "line conditions" and not distance or physical or network capacity, then it is possible to get it fixed.
BiggA
Premium Member
join:2005-11-23
Central CT

BiggA to swintec

Premium Member

to swintec
Maybe Google could buy them just for the pole access, rip the copper down and put Google Fiber up!

alchav
join:2002-05-17
Saint George, UT

alchav

Member

Re: Centurylink

said by BiggA:

Maybe Google could buy them just for the pole access, rip the copper down and put Google Fiber up!

You guys and your Pole Access, you must be back East. No wonder Google doesn't want to touch you, Fiber is the Future underground, Poles are the Past!

v6movement
@pppoe.ca

v6movement

Anon

Re: Centurylink

said by alchav:

You guys and your Pole Access, you must be back East. No wonder Google doesn't want to touch you, Fiber is the Future underground, Poles are the Past!

Having infrastructure underground unfortunately is what is slowing down fiber builds in a lot of areas.

alchav
join:2002-05-17
Saint George, UT

alchav

Member

Re: Centurylink

said by v6movement :

said by alchav:

You guys and your Pole Access, you must be back East. No wonder Google doesn't want to touch you, Fiber is the Future underground, Poles are the Past!

Having infrastructure underground unfortunately is what is slowing down fiber builds in a lot of areas.

You are absolutely right, the Cities that take the time to plan it out with Google to provide access, underground path with conduit, and trenching if needed will get their Fiber. The ones that think like BiggA, and want Google to come in and just slap Fiber any old way on Poles will get nothing.

v6movement
@pppoe.ca

v6movement

Anon

Re: Centurylink

said by alchav:

You are absolutely right, the Cities that take the time to plan it out with Google to provide access, underground path with conduit, and trenching if needed will get their Fiber. The ones that think like BiggA, and want Google to come in and just slap Fiber any old way on Poles will get nothing.

That's not what I said at all. More or less the opposite and just plain crazy.
ohreally
join:2014-11-21

ohreally to alchav

Member

to alchav
Interesting how people dislike it when big telco gets special deals/co-operation but if it's Google, anything's fine, cities should be paying Google to even think about rolling out their service there.
BiggA
Premium Member
join:2005-11-23
Central CT

BiggA to alchav

Premium Member

to alchav
I find the whole telephone underground thing bizarre. Around here in CT, utilities are either above ground or underground, not some half and half hodgepodge.

alchav
join:2002-05-17
Saint George, UT

alchav

Member

Re: Centurylink

said by BiggA:

I find the whole telephone underground thing bizarre. Around here in CT, utilities are either above ground or underground, not some half and half hodgepodge.

said by: Ohreally
Interesting how people dislike it when big telco gets special deals/co-operation but if it's Google, anything's fine, cities should be paying Google to even think about rolling out their service there.

BiggA you are right, this Post is about CenturyLink and what is in store for the near future. I just can't see using Poles anymore, and I'm sure Google feels the same way. Poles are over a hundred years old, and it's time to get rid of them. I'm sorry, but I can't see using Poles to run Fiber. Google's Headquarters are in California, and Poles are a thing of the past there. If you want Google to be serious about deploying Fiber in your City, make sure Poles are not part of the plan.
BiggA
Premium Member
join:2005-11-23
Central CT
·Frontier FiberOp..
Asus RT-AC68

BiggA

Premium Member

Re: Centurylink

If they deploy in an area where everything is overhead, like anywhere in the Northeast, then they will have to. They'll use whatever is available in the area. I think all utilities everywhere should be underground, but having half and half just makes no sense. If you're going to bury them, bury them all! We have some newer neighborhoods here that are completely underground, for aesthetic reasons.
coryw
join:2013-12-22
Flagstaff, AZ

coryw

Member

Re: Centurylink

When you say half and half, what do you mean? Do you mean utilities determined by neighborhood, or like, on one street it'll go from being buried to aerial and back again? Or something else?

There's usually a practical reason for that, and in my experience, it's pretty common to see utility poles in one section of a long street, and then for everything to be buried for the duration of the next neighborhood.

Another thing I've seen is there'll be backhaul carried in on poles (often through a heavily wooded area, where you can be more sure of everything if it's up on poles) and then beyond the SAI, everything is buried.

You'd probably have to check with the local city council to find out if there's any plans to encourage the utilities to move the rest of their stuff underground, say, the next time the city rips up the sidewalk and street anyway.

OpTiC
Premium Member
join:2014-03-08
West Covina, CA

OpTiC to silbaco

Premium Member

to silbaco
I see it turn out well because century link in CA, TX, and FL will replace Fios with 2x faster and 50% cheaper gigabit internet service. Verizon has the infrastructure to support 1 GBPS but they are unwilling to do that.

guppy_fish
Premium Member
join:2003-12-09
Palm Harbor, FL

4 recommendations

guppy_fish

Premium Member

Re: Centurylink

Keep smoking the peyeto Mr OpTic, if FIOS gets sold off, it will be caps and lower speeds for sure along with higher prices.

OpTiC
Premium Member
join:2014-03-08
West Covina, CA

OpTiC

Premium Member

Re: Centurylink

That is sort of true in some cases. But still CL can upgrade exising dsl customers to the VDSL plans. I find it likely CL will offer these 1GBPS plan. I have spoke to BiggA earlier and he said that it is possible to offer 1 GBPS plans.

•••••

ilikeme
Premium Member
join:2002-08-27
Stafford, TX

ilikeme

Premium Member

Windstream also probably

I wouldn't be surprised if Windstream got some of the areas also. In the Houston area Verizon is the phone company in most of Stafford, Missouri City, and some areas down around League City and Baytown. They have neglected upgrades in these areas for years. League City and Baytown have a small FIOS footprint, but thats about it. The Missouri City and Stafford areas are pretty much surrounded by Windstream, which already covers next door Sugar Land and some of the un-incorporated areas. I wouldn't be shocked if it went to them.

chuch
join:2001-04-11
Tampa, FL

chuch

Member

Re: Windstream also probably

I hope not - We use Windstream as our long haul carrier here at work and outages are a common thing.
Corporate
join:2014-10-04

Corporate

Member

What is Left?

States Verizon has sold off: Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, West Virginia, Indiana, Washington, Oregon, Hawaii.

Potentially next: California, Florida, Texas.

States Verizon still owns: Pennsylvania, Maryland, New York, DC. Any other areas?

Verizon is rapidly dumping their wireline network and with T-mobile and Sprint eroding their wireless customer base, Verizon won't have anything to fall back on.

What will be left?

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ham3843
join:2015-01-15
USA

ham3843

Member

Bell Canada to buy Verizon wireline (fiber and copper) footprints?

Would be nice to see the FCC to only allow a "sale" to occur if their are certain abilities of the buyer to provide reasonable maintenance and upgrades to fiber in the near term future.

My thought is that Bell Canada buys the wireline services (including the FiOS footprint)
it is a very healthy company that has the ability , and just as importantly
the DESIRE to build out new fiber to replace old copper lines, they have demonstrated this repeatedly in Canada.

I'd like to see AT&T do the same and have Bell Canada buy their wireline assets as well.

•••••••••••

DrDSL
@myvzw.com

DrDSL

Anon

Century Link?????

Mass exodus coming at Verizon California if sale is announced soon while the GAT rate is low. Century link has been rumored since the summer of 2014 when some techs reportedly saw suits from Century Link touring facilities in the high desert. Most of the Verizons employees in California have grown tired of the micro managing tactics Verizon has implemented since 2009. So a buyout should offer a glimpse of hope for the employees who have survived. The mass exodus is referring to the 100's of techs with 30+ years with the company who want to keep their "lump sum" policy. No way the new company that takes over California keeps that policy!
Bob61571
join:2008-08-08
Washington, IL

Bob61571

Member

Re: Century Link?????

Those telco veterans could do what the GTE/Verizon employees did(when Frontier bought out large parts of VZ's wireline territory).

Take the old pension, and retire. Then, come back with the new company
1)when the retirement agreement allows them to come back(within 1 to 2 years).
OR
2) when the new purchasing company decides to waive that clause since they need so much help with old telco knowledge, that they can't find enough youngsters that have much of that knowledge.

anon4fite
@suddenlink.net

-3 recommendations

anon4fite

Anon

don't stoop to the level of buzzfeed et all

Hey Karl, VERY long time reader here. I've been using dslreports.com as the very first site on new computers for connections and networks I setup. Please don't stoop down to the level of buzzfeed, TMZ, etc. There are a ton of other things you can write about, such as the hurry TWC and AT&T in the Raleigh, NC area are in thanks to the recent Google announcement, or maybe a repeat on the issues with network congestion in large gatherings such at the Puppy Bowl.

Anyway, hiccups once in a while are okay. You're still cool in my book, even if Verizon recently sold me on going off pre-paid and signing up for a 2-year contract on their EDGE plan. My phone couldn't hold a charge, and I'm not proud.

•••
tmc8080
join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY

tmc8080

Member

does the $$ DEBT $$ go with it?

many of these fancy deals offload massive Verizon debt.. some of it probably from the wireless spending.. not FIOS spending!

you can also look at this another way.. this is a great way for Verizon to shed UNION jobs from its workforce.. between that and recently announced outsourcing of cell tower assets... Verizon is trying to raise some cash for new investments somewhere else in the business. thus far.. it is NOT for FIOS construction..

•••

Flyonthewall
@teksavvy.com

Flyonthewall

Anon

Wouldn't that just push the problem onto the government?

If no one else buys, these ppl are due services according to the law, doesn't that give them a mandate to become a publicly owned provider?

miataman
I've attained a PHD in DVR.
Premium Member
join:2010-10-27
Chelmsford, MA

miataman

Premium Member

Re: Wouldn't that just push the problem onto the government?

Our government running a phone Co.?
Comes with a perfect marriage, NSA and VZ
biochemistry
Premium Member
join:2003-05-09
92361

1 edit

biochemistry

Premium Member

Focus

Is it really so hard to focus on both wireless and wireline? There are a lot of people not making millions of dollars a year who can focus on more than one thing at a time.

•••
Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium Member
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ

Kearnstd

Premium Member

Verizon will buy it all back up

For a healthy tax write off to boot. Basically they wait until CenturyLink builds out FTTH using federal dollars. And then buy it up cheap.

••••