 | | 5/5 Mbps symmetrical connection please. A 5/5 Mbps symmetrical connection should be the bar. That bar I think only gets the US in to 10th place in the last worldwide speed ratings? (can't find the world ratings link so I'm not positive on that potential ranking) So I consider the 5/5 Mbps symmetrical connection a middling and very attainable bar. | |
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 |  en102Canadian, eh? join:2001-01-26 Valencia, CA | Re: 5/5 Mbps symmetrical connection please. A 'middling' - possible. Bottom end, I'd recommend 1Mbps/384kbps as the minimum (1.25Mbps for ADSL due to overhead).
A 'standard basic' offering should be ~6Mbps/1Mbps IMO. Fast can be whatever you want.
Carriers implement CAPS to get you off that bottom end tier though. | |
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 |  | | said by axiomatic:A 5/5 Mbps symmetrical connection should be the bar... I consider the 5/5 Mbps symmetrical connection a middling and very attainable bar. Agreed | |
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 |  1 edit | An "internet" class I'm taking defines broadband as anything faster than a POTS line in the textbook. It's no wonder we can't come up with a realistic standard when schools are going to be promoting this junk.
My smartphone attains the speeds they define as broadband. Surely an ISP can do better than a wireless carrier. | |
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 |  dvd536as Mr. Pink as they comePremium join:2001-04-27 Phoenix, AZ kudos:4 | said by axiomatic:A 5/5 Mbps symmetrical connection should be the bar. That bar I think only gets the US in to 10th place in the last worldwide speed ratings? (can't find the world ratings link so I'm not positive on that potential ranking) So I consider the 5/5 Mbps symmetrical connection a middling and very attainable bar. 5mbps upload in AMERICA? BWAHAHAHA! Dream on! who cares about the handfulls of people that can get decent offerings. the 'bar' is for everyone, NOT just the HAVES! -- When I gez aju zavateh na nalechoo more new yonooz tonigh molinigh - Ken Lee | |
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 |  |  | | Re: 5/5 Mbps symmetrical connection please. I'm confused then about your reply. Are you being a jerk because you don't think its remotely possible to hit the 5/5 Mbps symmetrical connection, or did you just want to snark at someone? Because either way, you are laughing at your own demise as well. I just proposed a baseline, I realize how unattainable it is from some areas and I still think that is the goal to aim for. Wouldn't you be thrilled if a 5/5 Mbps symmetrical connection came to your area? Or would you make fun of it still?
I just don't see the reason to be a jerk in your reply since you are in the same boat as the rest of us.
Your troll-fu is confusing. | |
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 |  |  |  | | Re: 5/5 Mbps symmetrical connection please. your 5/5 is very reasonable. they need to kick ISPs in the ass to get them to actually upgrade their networks. not just collect profits. | |
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 SlyLoK join:2007-10-19 Sugar Grove, VA | I dunno.. I would want it high enough where Satellite wouldnt be considered broadband or add in something else like latency 300 or something ( sometimes you are higher than that on some MMOs due to population ).
Something like 1.5/368k with latency consistently below 300. | |
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 | | Keep in Mind Why the FCC is Defining "Broadband" Before the same type of thread we saw yesterday develops, let me remind everyone what is the subject matter at hand.
This is *NOT* about defining broadband for the purposes of the $7.2B in stimulus projects. That's already happened, and it was set at a very low 768kbps advertised speed.
What the FCC asked comment for this time, was how to define "broadband" for the purposes of the National Broadband Plan. A "plan" by definition is forward looking. This is about setting goals and doing things to help achieve those goals. Regardless of whether the FCC decides it should be 1Gbps symmetrical or anything that isn't dial-up, it won't have any impact on what private companies choose to deploy.
I personally think "broadband" should be a term of art for what it used to mean way back when -- T3 or above level service (45Mbps). But I currently buy a $60 3G HSPA connection, and find value in it. Is it broadband? Well, no. It's a wireless data connection, and I am happy to call it that. | |
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 rmdir join:2003-03-13 Chicago, IL | speed I guess by their definition my old 1200 baud modem, which I have stuck away in a box would quality as "almost broadband." | |
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 |  | | Re: speed
said by rmdir:I guess by their definition my old 1200 baud modem, which I have stuck away in a box would quality as "almost broadband." and the melodrama on BBR never ends...1.2Kbps (aka 0.15 KB/s) isn't anywhere near 768kbps (aka 96 KB/s). | |
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 |  |  Marduk join:2004-09-05 West Chester, PA | Re: speed said by Fox McCloud:said by rmdir:I guess by their definition my old 1200 baud modem, which I have stuck away in a box would quality as "almost broadband." and the melodrama on BBR never ends...1.2Kbps (aka 0.15 KB/s) isn't anywhere near 768kbps (aka 96 KB/s). Ya it is, when freakin' comcast (or whatever is causing the problem) slows the connection speed down during the evening.... | |
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 |  |  |  FreedomBuildWell done is better than well saidPremium join:2004-10-08 Rockford, IL Reviews:
·Comcast
| Re: speed You too uh...have that Comcpratic performance degradation during the time your most likely using the internet service. -- »www.freedombuild.net Browse A lot - Sign In Little - Post Even Less | |
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 |  |  |  |  Marduk join:2004-09-05 West Chester, PA | Re: speed said by FreedomBuild:You too uh...have that Comcpratic performance degradation during the time your most likely using the internet service. Which is why 1200 baud of pure text data that I want would be way faster than broadband full of sh*t (ads, viruses, etc) I do not want.
The reason we need all of this bandwidth has a lot to do with data we do not want.
But still it would help if we could keep the prime time slowdown to a minimum. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  FreedomBuildWell done is better than well saidPremium join:2004-10-08 Rockford, IL | Re: speed Finally got a personal response from one of our 'Elected' officials over my experiences with Comcast. -- »www.freedombuild.net Browse A lot - Sign In Little - Post Even Less | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  | | Re: speed Well don't keep us waiting.... what did they say? | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  FreedomBuildWell done is better than well saidPremium join:2004-10-08 Rockford, IL Reviews:
·Comcast
2 edits | Re: speed So far:
Dear Shawn,
Thank you for contacting me regarding broadcasting policies of Comcast.
I have shared your concerns with Kevin Washington of the Federal Communications Commission, and have forwarded a copy of your letter to him for a response. You should receive a reply soon. Please don't hesitate to let me know if your concerns are not addressed.
Thanks again for contacting me. I am glad to be of service to you. If I can be of any future assistance, please let me know.
Best wishes.
Sincerely, /M/ Donald A. Manzullo Member of Congress
P.S. Communicating with the people I represent is very important to me. If you would like to stay informed of my activities in Congress, please visit »manzullo.house.gov and sign up for my email updates. You can register to receive my e-newsletter, all my news releases, and updates on various issues. You can also visit my pages on YouTube, Facebook, and Twitter
So I am waiting for what Kevin has to say...Government wheels in action generally equals slow
-- »www.freedombuild.net Browse A lot - Sign In Little - Post Even Less | |
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 ajc18aka IGnatius T Foobar join:2000-05-06 Mount Kisco, NY | Nearly everyone defines "broadband" incorrectly. Nearly everyone defines "broadband" incorrectly. The term actually has nothing to do with speed. Broadband refers to the transmission of multiple signals over multiple frequency bands. The cable side of your cable modem is broadband; the Ethernet side isn't. -- Art Cancro UNCENSORED! BBS »uncensored.citadel.org | |
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 |  openbox9 join:2004-01-26 Alexandria, VA kudos:1 | Re: Nearly everyone defines "broadband" incorrectly. The word broadband unfortunately has taken on the definition of "speed" in regards to a connection to the Internet. "Speed" doesn't change much as it will be the speed of electrons over copper, light through plastic, and/or the switching mechanism that connects everything. We should more correctly define the "throughput" of a connection. | |
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 |  1 edit | said by ajc18:Nearly everyone defines "broadband" incorrectly. The term actually has nothing to do with speed. Broadband refers to the transmission of multiple signals over multiple frequency bands. The cable side of your cable modem is broadband; the Ethernet side isn't. Actually broadband is a very loose and relative term. As long as a relatively broad band of frequencies is being used to carry intelligence (voice, data, video etc) it is broadband.
Notice the term "relatively" which means that broadband is as broad (or narrow) as you want it to be. | |
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 |  davePremium,MVM join:2000-05-04 not in ohio kudos:7 | Agreed. Broadband is not about speed.
Is this the same people that think you can legislate that pi equals 3?
People would be better served if words like "high speed Internet access" had a legal meaning. | |
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 glinc join:2009-04-07 New York, NY Reviews:
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| mmm.... They need to get that speed they think is considered broadband out of their damn mind. US Broadband won't advance as much if this keeps going like this....look at europe and asia for example. At this standard we will never see Gbps or 100 symmetrical speeds anytime soon. | |
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| World standard Lets say Verizon or Comcast went to Japan and was offering their
0.256 Mbps HIGH SPEED CONNECTIONS. Next to the 100 mbit HIGH SPEED CONNECTIONS.
How long do you think they will be in business there?
Demand for symmetrical being a basis isnt that smart.Nobody in the market truly offers symmetrical. Making that demand seems too ununsual and could perhaps allow them to ignore the 5mbit suggestions.
Also 56k at some point might have been SUPER HIGH SPEED. I remember my 28.8k when 56k was out. I felt I was being sooo slow.
5mbit will definitely eventually be slow compared to 56k era. You are almost certainly then going to have to redefine it over and over.
Would be best to make a good strong definition from the start. | |
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 |  | | Re: World standard Lucky. I could barely reach 28k speeds on any 56k modem I used. | |
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 | | Why define it? It doesn't matter what it is defined to. The ISPs will just rebrand the name of the service and offer what ever speed they want.
ISPs don't understand speed anyway. I remember the commercials would say 100 times faster then dial up. And the 56k modem was the dial up most used. Three megabit isn't 100 times faster then 56k. They finally stopped saying 100 times faster.
ISPs control the internet speed not a definition. | |
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 |  elray join:2000-12-16 Santa Monica, CA Reviews:
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| Re: Why define it? said by XknightHawkX:It doesn't matter what it is defined to. The ISPs will just rebrand the name of the service and offer what ever speed they want. ISPs control the internet speed not a definition. The main reason for defining "broadband" is so that all the players can line up at the public trough and compete for moneys stolen from the taxpayer. | |
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| said by XknightHawkX:It doesn't matter what it is defined to. The ISPs will just rebrand the name of the service and offer what ever speed they want. Update: Comcast has provided us with their full statement to the FCC (pdf). While Comcast does declare that the "basic" broadband speed be considered to be 200 kbps, the company also wants to define "current" broadband as 600 kbps down and 500 kbps up, while "next generation" service is defined as 12 Mbps down and 2 Mbps up.
BASIC Current Next Gen
Not highspeed connection. Oh look they are already rebranding to avoid the whole thing. | |
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| Re: Symmetrical!! said by r81984:The definition of broadband should include being symmetrical for up and down. As a compromise the minimum download spead should be the minimum upload, so if they say 768k is broadband then that should apply to uploads also. Having lower standards for uploading is stupid. I dont understand why.
1mbit to 2mbit upload is far beyond necessary.
Should the crtc/fcc enforce the isps to provide symmetrical? Sure.
The reality is... Cable has to design a certain number of lines for upload vs download. Creating the ratio. They could go symmetrical.
DSL's freq range is limited. To go 5/5mbit. That's a very very strong sync. I wouldnt say that's very deliverable by many isps to many places.
5mbit/1mbit on the otherhand is very good for a basis. | |
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 |  |  r81984Fair and BalancedPremium join:2001-11-14 Katy, TX Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
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| Re: Symmetrical!! said by munky99999:5mbit/1mbit on the otherhand is very good for a basis. Everyone uses the internet differently. 1mbps to 2mbps may not be necessary for you, but I and many people would gladly use faster upload speeds. I can say to you that 1mbps to 2mbps is all that is necessary for downloading, why do people need 50mbps? Would you be fine with 1mbps down? Since one thing everyone does is upload and download they should be equal. Just because you do not upload much does not mean the rest of the world does not. If the internet did not have equal upload to downloading then increasing the download speed does not matter.
The only sure thing to do is define broadband as symmetrical. If an ISP cannot reach that then they should call themselves "High Speed Asymmetrical Internet" and not Broadband. -- Democrats are not Socialists any more than Republicans are. | |
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| Re: Symmetrical!! said by r81984:Everyone uses the internet differently. 1mbps to 2mbps may not be necessary for you, but I and many people would gladly use faster upload speeds. Sure everyone uses the internet differently. Except in generalities... they are extremely so the same.
Sure moar upload can be nice for many people. Perhaps they upload video to youtube constantly. The reality is that they can go get symmetrical or whatever in order to have this. General people dont need large upload.
quote: I can say to you that 1mbps to 2mbps is all that is necessary for downloading, why do people need 50mbps? Would you be fine with 1mbps down?
You just switched upload for download. Faster download is better because most people are going to websites or whatever. Like youtube say. Downloading off their epic t-carrier nets or whatever hosts them. They arent using broadband in the same sense as the fcc is defining.
quote: Since one thing everyone does is upload and download they should be equal. Just because you do not upload much does not mean the rest of the world does not. If the internet did not have equal upload to downloading then increasing the download speed does not matter.
This really doesnt make much sense to me. They arent uploading and downloading equally.
Hell you arent far from halifax. I bet you guys have super fibre lines to your house at this point @ super cheap rates. NL and NS are so wired because of the telco lines going across the atlantic. You probably dont even realize the isp hell the rest of the continent is in. | |
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 |  |  |  |  | | Yeah you are only covering "general" consumer use. Those of us trying to work for our employers from home could definitely use a 5/5 Mbps symmetrical connection to its fullest extent every single day.
Hell even my "consumer" uses could use well over 3Mbps.
Not everyone lives to only use HTTP my friend. And no I don't fileshare music or movies. All of my uses are legitimate. | |
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 |  |  |  davePremium,MVM join:2000-05-04 not in ohio kudos:7 Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
·Verizon Online DSL
| said by r81984:The only sure thing to do is define broadband as symmetrical. I think they should define broadband as "carried over green and red wires".
I mean, if everyone else gets to make up their own definitions of what an existing well-defined word "should" mean, I want to play too. | |
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 |  |  |  WhatNowPremium join:2009-05-06 Charlotte, NC | What are you willing to pay for these higher speeds. If they forced everybody to pay $100 or more per month to achieve this would you still be in favor of higher speed. If you don't like the speed where you live you could move somewhere based on the internet speed.
The posts on this board are always one sided putting in the infrastructure is expensive by the time you get it in it is obsolete just like computers you buy. If a ISP goes up even a dollar you guys scream bloody murder. Look what Verizon did they dumped every where fios would not pay for itself. | |
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 |  |  | | I don't find anything wrong with a high symmetrical tier. The absolute minimum should be 5/1 like you said, IMHO. Actually, any higher speeds should be done proportionally to that (10/2, 15/3, etc). | |
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 |  |  knightmbEverybody Lies join:2003-12-01 Franklin, TN | said by munky99999:said by r81984:The definition of broadband should include being symmetrical for up and down. As a compromise the minimum download spead should be the minimum upload, so if they say 768k is broadband then that should apply to uploads also. Having lower standards for uploading is stupid. I dont understand why. 1mbit to 2mbit upload is far beyond necessary. Should the crtc/fcc enforce the isps to provide symmetrical? Sure. The reality is... Cable has to design a certain number of lines for upload vs download. Creating the ratio. They could go symmetrical. DSL's freq range is limited. To go 5/5mbit. That's a very very strong sync. I wouldnt say that's very deliverable by many isps to many places. 5mbit/1mbit on the otherhand is very good for a basis. I'd much rather the FCC stay out of my business. If I want to sell customers the 56k package for $1 a month, then I should be able to. Not be forced to sell the 2 mbit up/down connection for $30 a month because people don't have perspective on what people really use the Internet for these days.  -- Fight Insight Ready (Was NebuAD) and the like: Click Here to pollute their data | |
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| Re: Symmetrical!! said by knightmb:I'd much rather the FCC stay out of my business. If I want to sell customers the 56k package for $1 a month, then I should be able to. Not be forced to sell the 2 mbit up/down connection for $30 a month because people don't have perspective on what people really use the Internet for these days. Afaik in the situation. They are trying to define broadband. Such that they can guage whether and area has broadband access or not. Not whether or not you can sell non-broadband services.
If they made the lowest sync for broadband to be say 5mbit/1mbit. Any areas or rather blocks of people who cannot reach beyond that. Dont have broadband access. Thusly it will mean... those people need better access. So a plan would be devised to get them access.
The ISPs are absolutely terrified at this because it pretty much shows how poor their networks really are. | |
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 |  en102Canadian, eh? join:2001-01-26 Valencia, CA | There's 2 reasons for this.
1. Business model - Most ISP's don't want home run Web servers/mail relays, etc.
2. There's a fixed amount of bandwidth in a DSL/Cable plant. Its simpler to 'assume' that this is primarily download, and dump multimegabit download and a lot less for upload. If you have a fixed 50Mbps capacity, its more efficient to design for 45Mbps/5Mbps than it would be for 25Mbps/25Mbps. -- Canada = Hollywood North | |
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 | | Broadband If I was in control of the situation I would define "Basic Broadband" as the avg median speed of the US network in 2009, which was roughly 2Mbps/640Kbps.
This would be the minimum standard for internet to be called "Broadband".
Personally I think this metric is low, but if we are shooting for a mark for everyone to reach for as the minimum standard.... | |
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 |  knightmbEverybody Lies join:2003-12-01 Franklin, TN | Re: Broadband said by mackintire:If I was in control of the situation I would define "Basic Broadband" as the avg median speed of the US network in 2009, which was roughly 2Mbps/640Kbps. This would be the minimum standard for internet to be called "Broadband". Personally I think this metric is low, but if we are shooting for a mark for everyone to reach for as the minimum standard.... I think the point everyone misses is what do you call from your example, a speed package that is 1.9 Mbps Down and / 610 kbps Up? You can't call it dial up because it's still light years faster.
I think the problem is, the large canyon between dialup and any other service is so big that's why those low numbers work. Have you tried to surf the web at 26.4 Kbps? Then try doing it at 256 Kbps, or even 512 Kbps. The difference is night/day with wait times reduced from minutes to mere seconds.
You want a 50 Mbps Down / 25 Mbps Up, then well you are either a power-power user or just like having a lot of speed to show off to friends.
As an ISP myself, customers love the 1 Mbp sweet spot. They can do all the normal web/e-mail/game stuff, and it covers youtube videos and streaming music just fine. People are willing to wait that extra millisecond to save money.  -- Fight Insight Ready (Was NebuAD) and the like: Click Here to pollute their data | |
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 |  |  | | Re: Broadband "As an ISP myself, customers love the 1 Mbp sweet spot. They can do all the normal web/e-mail/game stuff, and it covers youtube videos and streaming music just fine. People are willing to wait that extra millisecond to save money"
As an ISP if you really did a survey on the customers I bet you would find you aren't completely right. I have Verizon 1.5/384 DSL. The 1 Mbp sweet spot you talk about isn't that sweet on youtube videos. I have 1.5 Mbps and I have had to wait for video to buffer more then once on youtube. Oh wait that is the high def videos. Still Youtube.
This is the problem with ISPs. They assume they know what the customers want and like. Actually survey the customers, None of the ones with your canned answers to pick from. Let them leave their comment on the subjects in the survey.
Not wanting to argue it just trying to point out that as an ISP you can't say what the people want and love. You can say what you will give them but you will never know what they want and love. Everyone is different. | |
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 | | Comcast Update Update: Comcast has provided us with their full statement to the FCC (pdf). While Comcast does declare that the "basic" broadband speed be considered to be 200 kbps, the company also wants to define "current" broadband as 600 kbps down and 500 kbps up, while "next generation" service is defined as 12 Mbps down and 2 Mbps up. Anyone else find it funny that 12 MBPS down by 2 MBPS up just happens to be one of Comcasts' tiers? | |
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 |  jlivingoodPremium,VIP join:2007-10-28 Philadelphia, PA kudos:1 | Re: Comcast Update said by PapaMidnight:Update: Comcast has provided us with their full statement to the FCC (pdf). While Comcast does declare that the "basic" broadband speed be considered to be 200 kbps, the company also wants to define "current" broadband as 600 kbps down and 500 kbps up, while "next generation" service is defined as 12 Mbps down and 2 Mbps up. The full document, which has just been added at the top is interesting. The next-gen section says this in full:
Next Generation Broadband Internet Service -- Comcast proposes three: Next Generation (provisioned speeds of at least 12 Mbps downstream and 2 Mbps upstream); Next Generation Advanced (provisioned speeds of at least 50 Mbps downstream and 10 Mbps upstream); and Next Generation Commercial (provisioned speeds of at least 100 Mbps service). Speeds provided by "Next Generation" services enhance consumers'; ability to access today's content, applications, and services (and in some cases improve the quality of applications and services) while at the same time enabling consumers to access richer content and innovative applications and services as they develop. These definitions also ensure that customers who may need greater speed for specialized uses -- for example, small businesses, doctors' offices, and home offices -- will have options that meet their needs. Interestingly, our proposed Next Generation definition is largely consistent with what Cisco and Oxford project (based on their survey of expert opinion) will meet the needs of standard applications five years hence. -- JL Comcast | |
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 |  |  | | Re: Comcast Update So jlivingood get to work on that 5/5 symmetrical then? You are still 3Mbps shy of that. DOCSIS 3.0 should get you there post haste right? Right? Just think how much better you guys will compare to Fios and how damn awful that will make xDSL look.
Chop chop.  | |
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 aaronwtPremium join:2004-11-07 Woodbridge, VA | "current" broadband as 600 kbps down and 500kbs up? I had 5mbs down and 1mbs up back in 1997. | |
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 | | Broadband should be enough to watch HD TV If you are going to draw a line and have broadband above and limited service below, then about 4Mbps (mega bits per second) is where we should draw the line. With 4mbps you can watch HD TV over the Internet. At least using the Netflix Roku, 3.5mbts is required to watch at the best quality. Add an extra .5mbps for overhead. Up speed should be about 10% of down speed, just for a nice round number.
Just for the record, I have 12/2 mbps service. I love it. | |
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 |  | | Re: Broadband should be enough to watch HD TV In our city (Laramie, Wyoming), 3.5 Mbps of bandwidth costs $350 per month at wholesale. So, if everyone streams at the peak (5 to 10 PM), you need to pay that much to ensure that the capacity is available. Are you willing to pay that much? ISPs should not be expected to deliver services below cost. | |
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 SlyLoK join:2007-10-19 Sugar Grove, VA | Symmetrical.. Possible problem. If 5/5 were the standard for being considered broadband / highspeed then IMO that would effectively kill off what little expansion is happening in the US. These companies would spend the enxt few years upgrading their network instead of doing what really needs to happen and that is expanding and covering rural and not so rural areas.
Cable companies are already lazy for wanting to expand .. Heck Comcast has served my area for almost decade and I still only have access to basic cable ( so they claim.. You dont even see cable lines once you are a few miles outside of town ). | |
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