KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little Guy Premium Member join:2000-01-17 Tulsa, OK Netgear WNDR3700v2 Zoom 5341J
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KrK
Premium Member
2010-Aug-11 12:50 pm
This is what happens when there's insufficient competitionWith Robust competition, service providers upgrade and rollout to keep existing customers, introduce new services, and steal customers from the competition.
When there isn't robust competition, service providers take the attitude of "We have this Candy and YOU don't get any unless you pay us much, much more.... We know you want it and don't have choice to get it elsewhere! Ha ha ha! Pay up!" | |
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| tiger72SexaT duorP Premium Member join:2001-03-28 Saint Louis, MO 1 edit |
tiger72
Premium Member
2010-Aug-11 1:55 pm
Re: This is what happens when there's insufficient competitionLast I checked, TMO's HSPA+ already reaches these speeds. Sprint's WiMax is getting close, and improving. There is competition. People choose to remain lazy though and stick with what they have. | |
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| | Gbcue Premium Member join:2001-09-30 Santa Rosa, CA |
Gbcue
Premium Member
2010-Aug-11 2:12 pm
Re: This is what happens when there's insufficient competitionsaid by tiger72:Last I checked, TMO's HSPA+ already reaches these speeds. Sprint's WiMax is getting close, and improving. There is competition. People choose to remain lazy though and stick with what they have. I second that. HSPA+ is very fast, with only a 10gb soft cap. | |
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Re: This is what happens when there's insufficient competitiondo you know where a list of areas that have HSPA+ is located? i'm still only getting HSPA speeds here in chicago. | |
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| | | | Gbcue Premium Member join:2001-09-30 Santa Rosa, CA 1 edit |
Gbcue
Premium Member
2010-Aug-11 4:49 pm
Re: This is what happens when there's insufficient competitionsaid by ArrayList:do you know where a list of areas that have HSPA+ is located? i'm still only getting HSPA speeds here in chicago. » t-mobile-coverage.t-mobi ··· obal_cvgChicago isn't HSPA+ yet. | |
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to tiger72
I get up to 15Mbps unlimited on Clearwire. Some have reported over 20. The bigger question is who will have the most backhaul to each site to sustain higher speeds for many users at once. Word is VZW is looking at 30-60Mbps up to 100 backhaul. Clear is doing 100Mbps where they can and talks about 500Mbps in future. Any idea how much backhaul Tmob is supplying to their sites. » Clearwire adding backhaul | |
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| | | elbm join:2000-08-03 Reisterstown, MD |
elbm
Member
2010-Aug-11 2:34 pm
Re: This is what happens when there's insufficient competitionVZW, in my area the mid-atlantic, is puting in Fujitsu FW 4100 muxes at their sites which can run 622mb protected or or 1.24mb unprotected. With giga bit capable optical hand-offs to the the towers. At this point they are only running 10-100 mb but could turn on full gig-e at will. Only ATT is putting any thing close to this at their sites. ATT is doing transparent lan service which is gig capable but is fully unprotected. | |
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Re: This is what happens when there's insufficient competitionYeah, I imagine any of the carriers will do landline gigabit where they can get access to it and when they need it. Looks like Clear is doing about 100Mbps microwave backhaul today and can do it in any market DragonWave is present in. They say they'll need 500 in the near future.
Since VZW only has 20Mhz (25Mhz?) spectrum, what's the max backhaul it could supply simultaneously to many users using 20Mhz LTE? I don't think it's a gigabit. I'm not an RF engineer but am thinking maybe 100-200Mbps tops and that's with Advanced LTE. Other calculations I've seen is much less than that.
Clear is in the cable industry space though so needs it. VZW seems to be positioning LTE for strictly mobile access, not competing with cable/dsl. | |
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to elbm
If you are referring to the FW 4100ES shelf, which is the most compact of the 4100 series shelves, they are capable of oc48 speeds protected and can operate at gige speeds as well since it all falls within OC48 (2.4 gbps) payload when using the right cards: » www.fujitsu.com/download ··· 00ds.pdf | |
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Re: This is what happens when there's insufficient competitionSorry. I stand corrected. I should have read the entire document. OC12 it is. | |
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| | | | | elbm join:2000-08-03 Reisterstown, MD |
to bunklung
The 4100 equipped as an oc12 can run 0+2 configuration. Which allows the mux to run 2 seperate oc12's on each main optic board-- 622mb per side. Which is 1.24gb total bandwidth available to support full gig-e with out optical protection. | |
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| | | tiger72SexaT duorP Premium Member join:2001-03-28 Saint Louis, MO |
to xenophon
said by xenophon:I get up to 15Mbps unlimited on Clearwire. Some have reported over 20. The bigger question is who will have the most backhaul to each site to sustain higher speeds for many users at once. Word is VZW is looking at 30-60Mbps up to 100 backhaul. Clear is doing 100Mbps where they can and talks about 500Mbps in future. Any idea how much backhaul Tmob is supplying to their sites. » Clearwire adding backhaul Clear, like T-Mobile, doesn't have 100mbps everywhere. Clear hasn't stated what they have going out to their sites right now. TMO has stated that they're running 20mbps to begin with at their HSPA+ sites. Considering the speeds i've seen in most markets are the same as Clear's, I'm assuming that *currently* Clear is using something similar. said by NOCMan:Too bad App quality on Android sucks. Apple has it right, produce for few platforms and bring consistency, Android has a few dozen platforms which are inconsistent. *yawn* Ooh, talking points! Congratulations on your job with Apple. You should ask your boss for updated talking points for 2010. It seems the sheet you're working from is from 2008. said by thender:T-Mobile & AT&T don't count since they suck in numerous major cities. I need to get phone calls & emails all the time, not just when I'm standing in the right part of my workshop. Any *rational* person will tell you - ALL Cellular service is YMMV. Since it's quite clear that you're not knowledgeable in the least about the technology at play, i'll just leave it at that. | |
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| | Jo J14 join:2010-06-29 New York, NY |
to tiger72
Lazy ... WHAT?
The US model ties and binds us to each carrier. For instance I love to jump on over to Verizon and start using their LTE. But, i am on AT&T because they have iPhone and now if i want to cancel AT&T to jump onto Verizon's LTE I am going to have pay AT&T $300 and more.
These phone/IP device exclusives and Google/Verizon pact suck for the Internet we know. Wireless Internet service is shaping up to look like the Cable TV model; which excludes guy in his garage from mass distribution the Internet provides. | |
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| | | Gbcue Premium Member join:2001-09-30 Santa Rosa, CA |
Gbcue
Premium Member
2010-Aug-11 3:48 pm
Re: This is what happens when there's insufficient competitionsaid by Jo J14:Lazy ... WHAT? The US model ties and binds us to each carrier. For instance I love to jump on over to Verizon and start using their LTE. But, i am on AT&T because they have iPhone and now if i want to cancel AT&T to jump onto Verizon's LTE I am going to have pay AT&T $300 and more. If you want to go to Verizon, why did you sign a contract with AT&T in the first place? Oh, because you like the JesusPhone. So, looks like a poor user decision on your part. Verizon has tons of super Android phones which outperform the iPhone any day. | |
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| | | | NOCManMadMacHatter Premium Member join:2004-09-30 Colorado Springs, CO |
NOCMan
Premium Member
2010-Aug-11 9:14 pm
Re: This is what happens when there's insufficient competitionsaid by Gbcue:said by Jo J14:Lazy ... WHAT? The US model ties and binds us to each carrier. For instance I love to jump on over to Verizon and start using their LTE. But, i am on AT&T because they have iPhone and now if i want to cancel AT&T to jump onto Verizon's LTE I am going to have pay AT&T $300 and more. If you want to go to Verizon, why did you sign a contract with AT&T in the first place? Oh, because you like the JesusPhone. So, looks like a poor user decision on your part. Verizon has tons of super Android phones which outperform the iPhone any day. Too bad App quality on Android sucks. Apple has it right, produce for few platforms and bring consistency, Android has a few dozen platforms which are inconsistent. | |
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| | | Synbios join:2002-05-18 Arlington, VA |
to Jo J14
said by Jo J14:Lazy ... WHAT? The US model ties and binds us to each carrier. For instance I love to jump on over to Verizon and start using their LTE. But, i am on AT&T because they have iPhone and now if i want to cancel AT&T to jump onto Verizon's LTE I am going to have pay AT&T $300 and more. These phone/IP device exclusives and Google/Verizon pact suck for the Internet we know. Wireless Internet service is shaping up to look like the Cable TV model; which excludes guy in his garage from mass distribution the Internet provides. Um Lazy? I am one of the relatively few people to sign a new two year contract right before Verizon switched to tiered pricing. I will enjoy my unlimited 3G speeds for a good 2 years. You guys can have LTE and pay your premium for less bandwidth. Thanks. | |
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| | thenderScreen tycoon Premium Member join:2009-01-01 Brooklyn, NY |
to tiger72
T-Mobile & AT&T don't count since they suck in numerous major cities. I need to get phone calls & emails all the time, not just when I'm standing in the right part of my workshop. | |
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to KrK
said by KrK:. . . When there isn't robust competition, service providers take the attitude of "We have this Candy and YOU don't get any unless you pay us much, much more.... We know you want it and don't have choice to get it elsewhere! Ha ha ha! Pay up!" Right. VZW spent mulit-billions of dollars for spectrum for the new network and the rest of the network expense becasue they have little wireless competition. They could've saved the $B and sat on their laurels because we all know that people have absolutely no choice of wireless providers or to even drop service. VZW subscribers MUST subscribe to w'less service and furthermore, they MUST subscribe to VZW, because they have no choice. /sarcasm off | |
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| | KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little Guy Premium Member join:2000-01-17 Tulsa, OK Netgear WNDR3700v2 Zoom 5341J
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KrK
Premium Member
2010-Aug-11 8:31 pm
Re: This is what happens when there's insufficient competitionIgnore reality.
If they sat on their hands their network would become so bogged down and overloaded they'd lose out even to what little competition they have, even if the people had to pay more.
Notice I said robust competition. 2-3 choices with exclusive hardware and long contracts with punishing ETF's do not Robust competition make. | |
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| axus join:2001-06-18 Washington, DC |
axus to KrK
Member
2010-Aug-11 5:02 pm
to KrK
Wireless service has some natural limits on competition because of bandwidth licenses. But, it should be easy for a company to reach you once they have the bandwidth.
I'd like to know, what does an ISP need to be in compliance and provide wireless internet access? What are the theoretical limits for competition here? It seems like 3 competitors is the minimum for a healthy competition, 5+ would be better. | |
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Z80A Premium Member join:2009-11-23 |
Z80A
Premium Member
2010-Aug-11 12:52 pm
Sure, we'll payJust not the 50 gazillion dollars per GB they would love to charge for it. | |
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Re: Sure, we'll paysaid by Z80A:Just not the 50 gazillion dollars per GB they would love to charge for it. I wouldn't be so sure about that. It will probably be closer to $50 per Gb, but that is still just as insane. | |
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| axus join:2001-06-18 Washington, DC |
to Z80A
I think $40 / month internet service is a nice standard. My slow DSL is twenty-something before fees... I should check that ;p I have a problem with the data cap, that's what will keep me on DSL | |
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thegeek Premium Member join:2008-02-21 right here |
thegeek
Premium Member
2010-Aug-11 12:54 pm
Devil's AdvocateDoesn't a premium price always accompany the latest and greatest in tech? Of course you'll have to pay more for it!
For the record I am against ridiculous low cap tiered pricing, especially since data consumption will greatly increase and Verizon's costs will only get lower. But a higher price, at least at the beginning, is what you should expect with the latest tech. | |
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Re: Devil's Advocatesaid by thegeek:Doesn't a premium price always accompany the latest and greatest in tech? Of course you'll have to pay more for it! For the record I am against ridiculous low cap tiered pricing, especially since data consumption will greatly increase and Verizon's costs will only get lower. But a higher price, at least at the beginning, is what you should expect with the latest tech. Sprint, with their 4g phone initial offering isn't charging more. Their tethering users only cost $10/month more, and as long as they're on 4g, it's unlimited. | |
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Re: Devil's AdvocateAnd Clearwire fixed modem is just $40/month truly unlimited. Although a 3G/4G combo card starts at $55 unlimited. VZW will likely have caps. | |
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to Necronomikro
Um, they are charging more? $10 more, to be exact? | |
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Re: Devil's AdvocateHowever total plan with unlimited 4G is still less than VZW with no 4G. | |
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talz13
Member
2010-Aug-11 2:06 pm
Re: Devil's AdvocateTrue, and I pay for that every month on my EVO. I was just pointing out that Sprint DOES charge extra for 4G (or for the "premium experience" on the EVO and Epic, which coincidentally are the only 4G phones available on Sprint) | |
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Re: Devil's Advocatethat "extra" is just for thering though. How many people want to tether their EVO when they can do pretty much on the phone anyway? The "premium" VZ is talking about is $$$ more for the service period. | |
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talz13
Member
2010-Aug-11 3:47 pm
Re: Devil's AdvocateIt's not for tethering, it's an additional $30 a month on top of the extra $10 a month for tethering. | |
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.Good, Can't wait for others to go for LTE. That way I can stay on unlimited 3g, and the speeds will be double or more when the congestion I see day in day out gets better. | |
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(Software) pfSense Asus RT-AC68 Asus RT-AC66
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CrazyAdding an extra fee for LTE is absurd, even Verizon is feeling the capacity crunch on 3G with newer and newer smartphones, they should be offering incentives to switch to a faster LTE smartphone to ease the crunch, not charging more than 3G.
I wouldn't be surprised if you see customers hanging on to 3G devices which quite frankly are more than sufficiently fast for most smartphone browsing tasks.
I don't think AT&T and Verizon will be happy until everyone is paying $200 a month for an individual smartphone plan. I personally have been paying $95/month for my iPhone to AT&T and quite frankly that's about my limit I won't pay more than $100 a month for cell phone service. | |
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| kash1 join:2005-08-13 Houston, TX |
kash1
Member
2010-Aug-11 1:16 pm
Re: Crazydoesn't Verizon already charge a premium for their network? | |
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Re: Crazyyah they do. Look at the prices of their plans compared to Sprint or TMO and don't forget that extra $1.99 fee. That's the extra too. But you gotta pay for "America's best network". Self proclaimed motto. | |
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DaveDudeNo Fear join:1999-09-01 New Jersey 1 edit |
premium pricing worked with sprint- sarcSprint tried the higher price for wimax, most didnt like it, or the lack of coverage. Verizon will probably be worse. | |
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Re: premium pricing worked with sprint- sarcsaid by DaveDude:Sprint tried the higher price for wimax, most didnt like it, or the lack of coverage. Verizon will probably be worse. I see no point in paying more for LTE when the coverage will be horrible and only in big cities where WiFi could take up the slack. Eventually they'll raise the data pricing regardless of the availability of LTE. Remember when ATT raised the data pricing for the 3G iPhone? I still don't have 3G at my house. | |
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to DaveDude
The problem for us is Verizon can and will get away with it, Sprint can't because their already a lower tier provider. Verizon know's they can rip consumer's like us off and still bring in customer's by the thousands. | |
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Who needs coonectivity AND technologyWe just need a couple of hammock under a big mango tree.
I won Apple 32g IPAD and a a dell mini 10 recently and WANTS to give it away. | |
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texans20 Premium Member join:2002-09-28 Texas! |
texans20
Premium Member
2010-Aug-11 2:19 pm
So?AT&T's 3G is pretty fast, Clearwire/Sprint's 4G is pretty fast. Hell even T-Mobile is apparently getting some fast 3.5G stuff out there. If Verizon wants to charge a premium for their 4G that's their business. It's your business as a consumer to vote to pay for that premium or take your business elsewhere. Verizon has been rock solid for me and I'm more than happy to pay a little extra for it.
Sprint charges $10 extra a month for their 4G handsets, that's basically making customers 'pay a premium' for it. The market doesn't seem to care because the EVO is selling faster than Sprint can put them back on the shelves. | |
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Re: So?Define how much "a little extra" you will be willing pay for LTE? | |
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jfmezei Premium Member join:2007-01-03 Pointe-Claire, QC |
jfmezei
Premium Member
2010-Aug-11 3:21 pm
Is speed really important for mobile ?Out of curiosity, do people really look at speed for mobile phone plans ?
In my case, I look at how much per month and how many gigs (or in the case of Canada, megabytes) I can download for that price.
I certaintly wouldn't pay a premium for speed on mobile phone. Consider also that some networks in Canada advertise "up to 21mbps". When you look at the specs of an iphone, I think it has a limit somewhere between 7 and 10mbps. So why should I pay extra for a network doesn't give extra speed to the average user, but get to claim extra speed in its marketing ? | |
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thenderScreen tycoon Premium Member join:2009-01-01 Brooklyn, NY |
thender
Premium Member
2010-Aug-11 10:44 pm
I pay enoughFor unlimited text, web, and minutes, I pay $140/mo all said in done.
If I have to pay more, I'll hop onto metropcs once they get LTE going. They're already starting to catch some android devices.
As time goes on, technology gets better. imagine if everytime internet speeds got better due to superior technology, you paid a fee. I started at 768/128 for almost $50/mo, by this rationale I'd be paying $400/mo for 15/2 by now. | |
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Re: I pay enoughYeah. I remember paying $60 a month for 1.5M/128K now I'm paying $45 for 16/2 | |
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| | thenderScreen tycoon Premium Member join:2009-01-01 Brooklyn, NY |
thender
Premium Member
2010-Aug-12 8:40 am
Re: I pay enoughBy VZ's standard everytime new technology came out or improved the bill would go up. You'd be paying $250/mo for your 16/2 | |
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KingXboxNYC
Anon
2010-Aug-11 11:30 pm
Does This Apply To The Hinted Iphone Deal coming SoonHi Everyone,
I wasn't sure on this Question. So I wanna ask, does this apply to the Iphone Deal that's supposed to be coming soon to Verizon. Or will you be charged 3G Prices when it comes to Data? Or will Consumers be forced to pay LTE Prices.
When the Iphone does get released. I would also like to know, would it be possible to use Unlocked Iphones. (Or is it still impossible?) Because of the fact, you have to call Verizon to activate it.
BTW, I live in New York City & Verizon Wireless is still currently my Wireless Provider. | |
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air wavesLooks like a poor use of our old 700 mhz spectrum.. These are our airwaves, and to provide a service which benefits all but at a raping price? I'm really starting to understand why some countries hate us... We are not for the people, but for the money, buy the money and always in the name of money.. Who is this jesus fella? I hear he has some money, hmm maybe we can jack the prices of bibles and any church related equipment to MAXIMIZE PROFITS!!.. Seem extreme? It will stop somewhere, but when? | |
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| heimdm join:2008-06-22 Martinsville, IN |
heimdm
Member
2010-Aug-13 11:59 am
Re: air wavesMost will be willing to pay a premium if other options do not exist and wireless is an oligopoly, so you will really have no choice. The real question is how big is the "Premium" and how good will the service be. If this can replace T1's out in BFE, then anything around 200 is a good deal. | |
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Re: air wavessaid by heimdm:Most will be willing to pay a premium if other options do not exist and wireless is an oligopoly, so you will really have no choice. The real question is how big is the "Premium" and how good will the service be. If this can replace T1's out in BFE, then anything around 200 is a good deal. Not really. Still cannot afford it, thous its still worthless to most people.. I can deal with 80 a month with a 250 gig cap if I can do everything I need/want with it. Good latency and reliable connection.. But 200 is just rediculas for something that cost soo little to provide on a month to month basis.. They could do contracts to help subsidize their build outs in areas if need be.. But god the rate has to be realistic | |
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