  Eat Me
join:2002-09-25 Sussex, NJ | Cherrypicking Copper is not dead because the telcos have universal service obligations.
Of course these are way outdated so it essentially allows them to cherrypick and make sure only the very profitable areas get FiOS. | |
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 |  Sammer
join:2005-12-22 Canonsburg, PA
| Re: Cherrypicking said by Eat Me :Copper is not dead because the telcos have universal service obligations. Of course these are way outdated so it essentially allows them to cherrypick and make sure only the very profitable areas get FiOS. Very profitable areas are anywhere most customers are within six miles line distance from a Verizon central office. Areas where a significant number of customers are beyond six miles but most are still less than twelve miles Verizon will probably find profitable enough for FiOS eventually. Anyplace more rural than that Verizon will probably try to sell off. | |
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 |  |  PDXPLT
join:2003-12-04 Banks, OR
| Left on DSL?? said by Karl Bode :When it's all said and done, what percentage of Verizon customers won't see fiber to the home, including markets sold and markets left on DSL? 10%? 20%? 40%? That implies that those who are not in Verizon's target area for FIOS currently have DSL available. Such is not the case; many, if not most, have no broadband.
We'd be thrilled to be "left" with DSL. | |
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 patcat88
join:2002-04-05 Jamaica, NY | too confusing So whats the difference between VZ's Voicewing rebrand, FIOS Digital Voice, and FIOS POTS? | |
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 |  bgraham
join:2001-03-15 Smithtown, NY
·Verizon FIOS
1 edit | Re: too confusing Price.  Voicewing costs $25 tax = $30 per line
My Verizon POTS cost me $125 to $140 a month for 2 lines.
Verizon digital voice costs $45 or whatever. | |
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 |  |   en102 Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26 Valencia, CA | Re: too confusing Sounds sort of about right.
On AT&T it is (or was) pretty similar:
POTS: $40/month + $5 Canada ~= $58/month former Call Vantage = $25/month + tax Uverse voice (in the few Uverse arease that actually carry it) = $20-$40/month. | |
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 |  |  |   CylonRed Premium,MVM join:2000-07-06 Bloom County | Re: too confusing Wow -my AT&T costs me $31.50/mo or so... | |
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 |  alchav
join:2002-05-17 Palm Desert, CA | Voicewing, is VoIP and your Telephone Number is built into an IP Address and uses more of the Data Network. FiOS POTS the Telephone Number is built into the Switch and uses the PSTN (Public Switched Telephone Network.) | |
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 |  Sammer
join:2005-12-22 Canonsburg, PA
| said by patcat88 :So whats the difference between VZ's Voicewing rebrand, FIOS Digital Voice, and FIOS POTS? Voicewing is VOIP service with the "first mile" over the public internet. POTS is over the Public Switched Telephone Network. FiOS Digital Voice will be probably be VOIP service with the "first mile" over a dedicated network just as cable digital voice is. | |
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  Somewhere in WV
@usps.gov | Verizon deal
Verizon will most likely drop the copper when they are done installing FIOS to gain more profits. Drop the copper and they drop the maintenance and repair cost to maintain them. | |
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 |  BigDog
join:2008-12-12 Montpelier, VT | Re: Verizon deal i dont know that they would want to lose that income, could be wrong though. | |
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 |  bgraham
join:2001-03-15 Smithtown, NY
·Verizon FIOS
| said by Somewhere in WV :
Verizon will most likely drop the copper when they are done installing FIOS to gain more profits. Drop the copper and they drop the maintenance and repair cost to maintain them. That has to be true but over time the cheaper costs of maintaining fiber will trickle down to the consumer.
I am the lucky guy with the telco poles in my back yard and across the street is the POTS junction box for the neighborhood. Never a day goes by without 2 or 3 trucks working here. | |
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  Some Guy
@embarqhsd.net
| Umm.. Um... dumb question time... what exactly is wrong with a company wanting to make investments specifically in places where they are likely to see a return on those investments?
You don't see Disney opening a theme park in Alaska or Donald Trump opening a Billion Dollar resort in Montana now do you? | |
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 |   Karl Bode News Guy join:2000-03-02 | Re: Umm.. Does Disney sue the hell out of anybody who tries to build their own theme part in Montana -- simply because Disney might want to someday? Not a very good metaphor...particularly since theme parks are not increasingly essential infrastructure. | |
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 |  |   Some Guy
@embarqhsd.net | Re: Umm.. What would you propose then?
A government takeover of the broadband industry?
I don't see the problem so many people on this board tend to have with capitalism. | |
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 |  |  dsless
join:2001-05-16 Pittsburgh, PA
| Re: Umm.. said by Eat Me :said by Some Guy :
Um... dumb question time... what exactly is wrong with a company wanting to make investments specifically in places where they are likely to see a return on those investments? Simple answer. In order to build out its network, Verizon needs access to public rights of way. In order to do that it negotiates with the states and municipalities that control those rights of way. Making it widely available is a concession that they have to agree to in order to access the rights of way. The whole thing is called a franchise, and the agreement is called a franchise agreement. Furthermore, rights of way are usually private property or publicly owned spaces (such as roads) which property owners are forced to give access to utilities to run their infrastructure. It's not just free land. Since all taxpayers pay for roads and are required to give up rights of way via easements, it is only fair that the municipality or even the state require anyone that wants to use them make the services available to all. If pots line are install there then access rights already. | |
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 |  wev567
join:2006-02-25 Pittsburgh, PA
| Nice idea, but the expense of Gig E NIDs, the complex coordination needed between the two pairs, and the lack of spare pairs in most areas are the most obvious problems. And how much extra power will be going thru these pairs? It's mostly 24-26 gauge wire. | |
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 |  |  Mr Matt
join:2008-01-29 Eustis, FL
·Comcast
·Embarq
| Re: Telephone industry is not very creative. Delivering sufficient power to the subscriber interface in no problem if the circuit designer uses simplex power. This arrangement reduces the loop resistance. Simplex power uses a center tapped coupling transformer as the interface to the pair at each end of the loop. Power is transmitted at the office end and collected from the center tap of the transformer at the subscriber end. If the series loop resistance is 500 Ohms the resistance of each conductor is 250 Ohms. In a simplex circuit, for the purpose of DC current flow, each conductor is connected in parallel and forms a parallel circuit. Therefore a 500 Ohm loop becomes a 125 Ohm conductor for the purpose of DC Current flow (Two 250 Ohm conductors in parallel for DC). If the Office side of the circuit applies Minus 48 Volts to one center tap and Plus 48 Volts to the other center tap the technique can deliver 96 Volts at the subscriber interface circuit through one half the resistance of a normal loop. 50 Milliamps at 100 Volts delivers Five Watts of power. My proposal is suggested to serve as a stop gap measure to give the telephone companies time to install fiber. | |
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 |  |  |  |  Mr Matt
join:2008-01-29 Eustis, FL
·Comcast
·Embarq
1 edit | Re: Telephone industry is not very creative. I was replying to wev567 regarding the available power at the subscriber interface. It would be interesting to note what the maximum baud rate that could pass through a pair if the entire bandwidth capacity of the pair was used for transmission in one direction. Please check out this link to wikipedia discussing baud rate vs bit rate:
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baud_rate
Various modulation techniques can be used to improve throughput on a copper pair. The real question is how much can technology improve the actual data rate. | |
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 |  |  Mr Matt
join:2008-01-29 Eustis, FL
·Comcast
·Embarq
| Re: Telephone industry is not very creative. Yes that is what I propose, not a rehashed ADSL protocol and not an Ethernet Protocol. I propose starting with a clean slate and determine the absolute bandwidth limit for copper pairs when used exclusively for unidirectional transmission of data. The new technology could be implemented alongside Plain Old Telephone Service and POTS + ADSL. The technology could be deployed as subscribers ordered service. Deploying service on a per subscriber basis would limit the problem with pair availability. The subscriber pair would terminate in a service cabinet like a Subscriber Line Carrier Cabinet for voice or a Digital Subscriber Line Access Module for ADSL. I learned that since the mid 1970's the Bell Operating Companies were deploying two pairs to each subscribers premises. The only areas where outside plant availability would be an issue is older areas where there are a significant number of bridge taps. | |
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 |  |  |  PDXPLT
join:2003-12-04 Banks, OR | Re: Telephone industry is not very creative. Existing DSL technologies already get everything that can be gotten out of copper paris. Bunches and bunches of PhD theses and journal articles have been generated on this subject. | |
|
 |   David No,there is another. Premium,VIP join:2002-05-30 Granite City, IL clubs: | I am thinking that would be distance limited wouldn't it? Thinking in the CCNA book that cat5e was good for 300ft?
Interesting theory none the less, I wonder if they hit the 300ft roadblock. | |
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 |  |  |   David No,there is another. Premium,VIP join:2002-05-30 Granite City, IL clubs: | Re: Telephone industry is not very creative. ahh, that's what I was thinking you guys were talking about at first, but I think I either confused myself, or matt confused me. | |
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 rdmiller
join:2005-09-23 Richmond, VA | Confusing This is very, very, very confusing. What we need here is more speculation. | |
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 RchrdEllis
join:2007-06-11 Narberth, PA
·Verizon Online DSL
| No more copper - big problem!
An often overlooked problem with FiOS is that your phone service is powered by your local (house) power with a battery backup that I believe has an 8 hour capacity. Various regions of our country have had multiple day power outages this year! POTS (over copper) provides 50 volts of power from the central office with battery and emergency generator backup. This is one reason I have resisted signing up for FiOS. If I could get the FTTH without having to drop my copper I probably would have switched from DSL. | |
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 |   Madness A flea circus at a dog show.
join:2000-01-05 Quincy, MA 1 edit | Re: No more copper - big problem! What I curious about is whether one could get FiOS and still keep a copper line (in some cases)? Like what if someone (e.g. elderly, disabled) in the household had a Lifeline? | |
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 |  |  elray
join:2000-12-16 Santa Monica, CA
·SONIC.NET
·RoadRunner Cable
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: No more copper - big problem! said by Madness :What I curious about is whether one could get FiOS and still keep a copper line (in some cases)? Like what if someone (e.g. elderly, disabled) in the household had a Lifeline? Lifeline service will work over FiOS. | |
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