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story category Verizon Deploys 'Certified Email'
Controversial system 'to help protect its customers from spam'
(old news - 09:34AM Thursday Jun 07 2007)
tags: business · spam · mail
As hinted at yesterday, Verizon has announced that they've implemented GoodMail's "Certified Email" system, which charges marketers and mass mailers a fee to bypass an ISP's spam filters. To become a "certified" mass mailer, companies pay around a quarter of a penny per message sent -- with half of those fees going to the ISP.

The Verizon press release insists the service is a boon to consumers and a way to differentiate "legit" spam from less ethical pitches:
"CertifiedEmail is part of an extensive suite of services that Verizon uses to help protect its customers from spam and other e-mail abuse," said Peter Castleton, director of Verizon consumer broadband services. "The problem of phishing and fraud erodes trust in e-mail. A certification service, such as CertifiedEmail, enables us to help restore that trust and makes it easier for consumers to identify legitimate e-mail messages."

"Goodmail has established itself as a leading delivery service provider for trusted-class e-mail," Castleton added. An incoming e-mail with a blue-ribbon envelope icon tells the customer that the sender has been accredited and that the message is from a trustworthy source."
Time Warner Cable/Roadrunner, Cox and Comcast have also decided to implement the system.

Related:
  1. AOL, Yahoo to Revamp Spam Attack
  2. Coalition Assaults AOL's 'E-mail Tax'
  3. AOL Backs Off 'E-mail Tax'
  4. Four Major ISPs To Use 'CertifiedEmail'
  5. The Goodmail Debate
  6. New AT&T Filters Eating Legit E-mail
  7. AT&T Tackles Mail Complaints
  8. Wireless Companies Crack Down on Phone Spam
Forums » Verizon Deploys 'Certified Email'

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Rob
Veni, vidi, vici
Premium
join:2001-08-25
Kendall, FL
·Comcast
·AT&T Southeast


edit:
June 7th, @09:16AM

So what do the customers get?

Verizon makes money and Goodmail makes money. What does the customer get? Spam?

Unless I am not entirely understanding this concept, it sounds like spammers (that's what they are, regardless of what title you give them) pay Verizon and Goodmail a fee to bypass Verizon's spamfilters and deliver their spam to the customers.

I'm afraid that customers won't see a discount on their bills either.

Great. So now not only do they have to put up with spam, but their own ISP makes money off of it too. Let's hold hands and sing Kum Ba Yah, the spammers have won.

fireflier
Coffee. . .Need Coffee
Premium
join:2001-05-25
Limbo
·RoadRunner Cable

Re: So what do the customers get?

So will the ISPs then include a function to allow the consumer to automatically reject/filter all of that blue ribbon crap or will this be the cyber equivalent of ramming ads down our throats with no option to avoid it?

If they implemented this feature with an option to not pass goodmail approved email to the account then I suppose I wouldn't really care but my guess is there will be no such option--or they'll charge more for it.

What a clusterf**k!
--
Wishes: When you wish upon a falling star, your dreams can come true. Unless it's really a meteorite hurtling to the Earth which will destroy all life. Then you're pretty much hosed no matter what you wish for. Unless it's death by meteor. --despair.com
NormanS
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
·Pacific Bell - SBC

Re: So what do the customers get?

said by fireflier See Profile :

So will the ISPs then include a function to allow the consumer to automatically reject/filter all of that blue ribbon crap or will this be the cyber equivalent of ramming ads down our throats with no option to avoid it?
I'd like to see a sample set of headers. Presumably, they will include some kind of unique "mark" to allow the Verizon spamfilters to give them a pass. If the headers include such a "mark", Pegasus Mail, Mercury/32, and any other mail agent which can filter on any header line will be able to deal with those messages easily.
jester121

join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL

Re: So what do the customers get?

Mebbe so, but it's also trivially easy for the filtering system to strip the header when it deposits the message into your mailbox (after the scanning is done, but before you see it).
NormanS
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
·Pacific Bell - SBC

Re: So what do the customers get?

said by jester121 See Profile :

Mebbe so, but it's also trivially easy for the filtering system to strip the header when it deposits the message into your mailbox (after the scanning is done, but before you see it).
said by Rob See Profile :

If that's the case, then spammers can just add that "mark" to their own headers, hence bypassing the filters!
I can certainly distinguish the spam from the paid ads in Juno Mail. They are eminently filterable in mail clients. Alas, I would have to pay for POP3 access to Juno Mail.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
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Carlisle, PA
·Cox HSI
·Speakeasy

said by jester121 See Profile :

Mebbe so, but it's also trivially easy for the filtering system to strip the header when it deposits the message into your mailbox (after the scanning is done, but before you see it).
Maybe, but...
Said by article:

An incoming e-mail with a blue-ribbon envelope icon tells the customer that the sender has been accredited and that the message is from a trustworthy source.
Something in the message has to produce that "blue-ribbon envelope icon". If that something ain't there, the MUA won't render it. So, all you have to do is set your rules up to auto-nuke any messages with that something in it.
--
Everyday, thousands of new cars are delivered to their new owners with poorly-selected radio station presets.

Rob
Veni, vidi, vici
Premium
join:2001-08-25
Kendall, FL
·Comcast
·AT&T Southeast

said by NormanS See Profile :

said by fireflier See Profile :

So will the ISPs then include a function to allow the consumer to automatically reject/filter all of that blue ribbon crap or will this be the cyber equivalent of ramming ads down our throats with no option to avoid it?
I'd like to see a sample set of headers. Presumably, they will include some kind of unique "mark" to allow the Verizon spamfilters to give them a pass. If the headers include such a "mark", Pegasus Mail, Mercury/32, and any other mail agent which can filter on any header line will be able to deal with those messages easily.
If that's the case, then spammers can just add that "mark" to their own headers, hence bypassing the filters!
--
YourIP.US - It's Your IP .. and more!
rr.cx - Personal Site.. coming soon.

Jason Levine
Premium
join:2001-07-13
Albany, NY

Re: So what do the customers get?

said by Rob See Profile :

]If that's the case, then spammers can just add that "mark" to their own headers, hence bypassing the filters!
Not necessarily. It could be based on a white-list of "legit spammer" IP addresses. (e.g. 123.45.67.89 is ok to let through, but 23.45.6.78 isn't.) There really doesn't need to be anything else to it as far as outside spammers are concerned. Whether or not there is an internal "blue icon" flag is a different story. And any spammer that tries to set a "blue icon" flag from the outside could just be filtered out by Verizon as trying to muck with the system.
clecssuck

join:2002-01-23
Birmingham, AL
Hey they could offer thier customers a "service" for just $2 a month that blocks all the junk. Then they're getting money on both ends!

Jason Levine
Premium
join:2001-07-13
Albany, NY

Re: So what do the customers get?

Then turn around and offer a Super-Premium Certified Spammer program to get past the block if the "legit spammers" pay Verizon more. Then a Super-Premium block for those customers who are willing to pay more not to see Super-Premium messages. Then....

Well, you get the idea.

Kxpuc

join:2004-05-04
Houston, TX
good thing i never use my ISP mail system. I think i've checked my RR mail 3 times in 2 years

Karl
News Guy
join:2000-03-02

Host:
Road Runner
PC gaming GAMES
PC gaming Tech

So...

So say your ISP profits from selling your clickstream data, befuddling your DNS service and now charging a spam filter bypass tax -- at what point do you as a consumer see a price reduction?

ColorBASIC
8-bit Fun
Premium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
·NextWeb


edit:
June 7th, @09:19AM

Re: So...

When you're Comcast and raise the price $14 then put a line item under it saying you get a $14 bundling discount for having their crappy CATV service.

That is unless you actually expect someones bill to go DOWN after a discount. If that is the case you're out of luck.

When you're Comcast and raise the price $14 then put a line item under it saying you get a $14 bundling discount for having their crappy CATV service.

That is unless you actually expect someones bill to go DOWN after a discount. If that is the case you're out of luck.

All of these major ISPs are penny pinching bloodsucking whores and Verizon is among the worst of them.

--
Macintosh Users Group Serving the Inland Empire

Maxo
Your tax dollars at work.
Premium,VIP
join:2002-11-04
Tallahassee, FL
clubs:
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said by Karl See Profile :

at what point do you as a consumer see a price reduction?
The moment you cancel, which is not an option for many. Chalk this up as another reason that we need more competition in the broadband sector.

verolom

join:2002-03-23
Eatontown, NJ
No, see, Verizon and other ISPs implementing this "spam filtering" service will likely ADD a fee to your bill for providing it.

Why can't we just get a pipe provider? Why, oh why?
openbox9

join:2004-01-26
Navarre, FL
You might already be getting that price reduction by not being charged more to build out new infrastructure and the increased service offerings.

ColorBASIC
8-bit Fun
Premium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA

Re: So...

Except that FiOS subscribers have already gotten an 11% price increase since the deployments started.
--
Macintosh Users Group Serving the Inland Empire
openbox9

join:2004-01-26
Navarre, FL
·Mediacom

Re: So...

Ok, so how much are you spending for your 30/2 FiOS service compared to what you paid for 1.5/256 DSL three years ago? Advancement isn't free, easy, or fast. If you don't want the service providers making deals with content providers, then be ready to see that 11% price increase move to a value much more substantial.

Karl
News Guy
join:2000-03-02

Host:
Road Runner
PC gaming GAMES
PC gaming Tech

edit:
June 8th, @10:39AM

Re: So...

quote:
Advancement isn't free, easy, or fast.
I'm sorry, who's getting broadband for free?

Customers pay plenty for incumbent broadband. Verizon makes plenty off of landline services and over time has received countless subsidies.

Systems like the Goodmail are enacted due to a need to impress investors with improved quarter by quarter results, not out of a need for fiscal survival. These incumbent operators are doing just fine, and the idea that consumers who pay plenty each month (and in many non-competitive markets increasingly get less -- no newsgroups, traffic shaping, less functional DNS, less privacy) are "lucky" they aren't paying more is just boardroom think....
openbox9

join:2004-01-26
Navarre, FL
·Mediacom

Re: So...

said by Karl See Profile :

quote:
Advancement isn't free, easy, or fast.
I'm sorry, who's getting broadband for free?
I didn't say broadband, I said advancement
said by Karl See Profile :

Systems like the Goodmail are enacted due to a need to impress investors with improved quarter by quarter results, not out of a need for fiscal survival. These incumbent operators are doing just fine, and the idea that consumers who pay plenty each month (and in many non-competitive markets increasingly get less -- no newsgroups, traffic shaping, less functional DNS, less privacy) are "lucky" they aren't paying more is just boardroom think....
I guess I'm a boardroom kinda guy. In today's market driven world, fiscal survival is improved quarter by quarter results. If you don't like it, more and more companies will need to be taken private....but then you run the risk of corporate raiders shredding the company and selling it for scrap.

Maxo
Your tax dollars at work.
Premium,VIP
join:2002-11-04
Tallahassee, FL
clubs:

Re: So...

So when your ISP screws you in the bum you shrug it off knowing it's for their investor's own good? Last I checked, we are the customer, and we are the ones who are suppose to be served.
openbox9

join:2004-01-26
Navarre, FL
·Mediacom

Re: So...

said by Maxo See Profile :

So when your ISP screws you in the bum you shrug it off knowing it's for their investor's own good?
No, if I get "screwed in the bum" I make a decision to no longer financially support (i.e. use the competitor) the screwer.

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southwest

Re: So...

said by openbox9 See Profile :

No, if I get "screwed in the bum" I make a decision to no longer financially support (i.e. use the competitor) the screwer.
Oh you switch to the other DSL providers or Cable providers or...

... Wait. What other providers?
--
"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!)
openbox9

join:2004-01-26
Navarre, FL
·Mediacom

Re: So...

If I'm dissatisfied with my cableco, I'll switch to my telco. If I'm dissatisfied with my telco, I'll switch to various combinations of WISPs, VoIP providers, sat tv, 3G cellular providers, or....wait for it, if I'm screwed hard enough by all of them, I'll do my own personal cost/benefits analysis and may very well choose to live without some services.

Jason Levine
Premium
join:2001-07-13
Albany, NY

They'll just claim that the next price increase won't be quite as steep as it would have been.

"Sure we're raising all of our prices by $10 a month, but if we didn't do all of these things we would have raised it by $20 a month. See how it's reduced your bill? On an unrelated note, bills will now include a $6.72 Federal Jabberwocky Excise Tax and a $3.28 Malarky Generator Fee."

ColorBASIC
8-bit Fun
Premium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
·NextWeb


edit:
June 7th, @09:15AM

WHORES!

Just another reason to not use ISP provided email services. What's next..Verizon DNS redirection?

Verizon's conversion of DSL USF into a junk fee.
Verizon's "You're not using enough LD fee"
Verizon's "Sell out our customers to spammers" fee.
Verizon's 11% FiOS HSI increase

It's no wonder they can afford FiOS deployments

--
Macintosh Users Group Serving the Inland Empire

Mactron
el Camino Real
Premium
join:2001-12-16
CM94sv

Don't care

I don't care because VZ E-mail has been problem plagued for what seems like forever. I learned a long time ago not to use ISP E-mail and VZ is no exception. Gmail has been good to me. So go ahead VZ, enjoy your new money stream.
--
If only the Verizon CSRs worked this well.

cableties
Premium
join:2005-01-27
Levittown, PA

Re: Don't care

I have Fios but I never use the (email) account. Yet, I get dictionary spams (down the list). And a few odd ones. I have set the filtering on at the web control page.

I bet Verizon offers a fee to block this too! Greed.

Does this mean that these ISPs can now sue software makers that thwart this (oxymoron) "legit spam"? And who's to verify that the spammers are legit?

G-bless Gmail and Yahoo.

nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
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Carlisle, PA
·Cox HSI
·Speakeasy

said by Mactron See Profile :

I don't care because VZ E-mail has been problem plagued for what seems like forever. I learned a long time ago not to use ISP E-mail and VZ is no exception. Gmail has been good to me. So go ahead VZ, enjoy your new money stream.
What everyone who has VZ email service needs to do is, set up an auto-redirect rule for these "certified" emails that go to the corporate email accounts of the VZ execs...
--
Everyday, thousands of new cars are delivered to their new owners with poorly-selected radio station presets.

newview
Ex .. Ex .. Exactly
Premium
join:2001-10-01
Parsonsburg, MD
·Vonage

I suspect the only way to express our displeasure . . .

at this turn of events is to begin refusing ALL mail from those mailers who have implemented the "Certified Email" (Legit Spammer) system.

Yes . . . immediately begin refusing ALL mail from AOL & Yahoo. Basically send that message that we will NOT allow you to determine for us what is legit spam to eat.
--

Ö¿Ö
The Rules of Spam | Maryland's Newest Anti-Spam Law
Where are we going? And what's with the hand basket?

ColorBASIC
8-bit Fun
Premium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
·NextWeb

Re: I suspect the only way to express our displeasure . . .

I wish my 3rd party email provider 1and1 gave me the option to bounce email (not just drop them in a spam box) from specific domains.

My old Prodigy dial up game me options to bounce email to domain, use their blackmail lists, block overseas email etc.

I need to hunt down another cheap email provider.
--
Macintosh Users Group Serving the Inland Empire

See 6 replies to this post

meskinct
This space for rent
Premium
join:2002-01-07
Danbury, CT
clubs:

What is fake e-mail?

I'm sorry but this makes no sense to me. "They want an end to the frustration of having to guess whether an e-mail is real or not."

All e-mail is real. How legit the content inside of the message is the questionable part.

The idiots are trying to protect the idiots!
--
Rich. My Website - ThisIsPico.Com including the AT&T/SBC Northeast/SNET Status Page and Graphs

fireflier
Coffee. . .Need Coffee
Premium
join:2001-05-25
Limbo
·RoadRunner Cable

Re: What is fake e-mail?

said by meskinct See Profile :

The idiots are trying to protect the idiots!
The *GREEDY* idiots are trying to convince the idiots this is protection. . .
Stumbles

join:2002-12-17
Port Saint Lucie, FL

Your next.

Hee certified email..... what an obtuse marketing spin that really means...... yes average joe email user we will get around to charging you also.... eventually..... we just haven't come up with a bullshit marketing spiel..... that you would believe.

Jim Gurd
Sorry Roger, you tiger now.
Premium
join:2000-07-08
Plymouth, MI

Doomed to fail

I don't see companies ponying up the money for this. If nobody pays the system doesn't work. Most people will just whitelist people and companies they know.

dbmaven
There's no shortage
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Sty in Sky
clubs:
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Host:
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No, I Will Not Fix..
Road Runner
Computer Hardware ..
Computer Hardware ..

Now I've seen it all...

The ultimate ISP oxymoron: legit spam

I hope all of you that have Verizon blast them for this.
The only marketing mail I want is something that I specifically requested/signed up for. Since I don't do that - ever - that means I should get ZERO marketing crap in my e-mail inbox.
I really don't care that you (the "legit spammer") think I signed up for your mailing list - I didn't. Ever. I never agreed to be contacted by you - or anyone else.

Verizon should spend more time securing their network and dealing with abuse complaints - about 10% of the spam I get (mostly on throwaway accounts like yahoo) are from Verizon based IPs....mostly bots/zombies taken over by Trojans.

I'll be more diligent than ever when I see spam from a Verizon IP.....
--
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If a pig loses its voice, is it disgruntled?

SYNACK
Just Firewall It
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Host:
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ZyXEL

I don't see the spam spin yet

It seems everybody is jumping on this as if every spammer can now buy himself around the spam filters. This is not how I read it!

Quote from »www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co···50.html:

"The service is designed to certify credit card statements, e-commerce receipts and other communications with existing customers. It does potentially give a boost to larger corporations and groups that can afford the charge, but Gingras says their messages are the ones most likely to be mischaracterized as junk."

The primary purpose of the system is to ensure that existing legitimate non-spam e-mail from trustworthy companies does not accidentally end up in the spam folder. They make it very clear that it is not designed for massmarketers or advertising campaigns to random recipients.

(Of course I am questioning the point that it should cost anything to the sender.)

A certification process, if well implemented, is probably a good thing. It means that these companies are in constant fear of loosing the certification if they don't play nice.

What we will see of course will be spammers that will fake some blue certification ribbon somewhere in the body of the e-mail. Hopefully, the filters will be good enough to weed these out.
blips

join:2001-04-17
Addison, IL

edit:
June 7th, @09:44AM

Mail lists

So that means all the mailing lists I subscribe will not be able to get to my e-mail account without paying?

plk
bo may sleep in loft
Premium
join:2002-04-20
Ogden, IA


edit:
June 7th, @10:00AM

Re: Mail lists

Sounds like a way to blackmail nearly all corporations into a mail delivery fee. Maybe not at first....but I'll bet it quickly turns into one.

This will quickly turn into a net neutrality issue.

Spammers will have no part of such a system. But they may "play along" to make it look like they will. Just to learn ways to fake it.

Reminds me of the "Drug tax Stamp"

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blips

join:2001-04-17
Addison, IL

Re: Mail lists

said by plk See Profile :

Sounds like a way to blackmail nearly all corporations into a mail delivery fee.
Unfortunately, some of the lists I'm on are charity orginizations that will not be able to pay money to send out information.
rdmiller

join:2005-09-23
Richmond, VA

This is for banks and credit card companies

Banks, utilities and credit card companies need to know for sure that when they send you a statement via email, that it actually gets delivered.

That's all this is. Nothing more. Nothing less.
jester121

join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL
·ViaTalk

Re: This is for banks and credit card companies

If that's the case then e-mail is the wrong medium for them to use. SMTP has never been a 100% certain system, and never will be. For that matter neither is the US Postal "Service", unless you pay for signature/delivery confirmation.

It's a lot more than what you say, and also a lot less.
eljay001

join:2004-03-17
South Portland, ME
·Great Works Internet

That's a good idea, but I can't see a tightwad bank paying for something like that. They'll tell you when you sign up for e-statements that you need to add yadda@yaddayadda.com to your whitelist or whatever, and that's about as far as they'll take it.
unoriginal

join:2000-07-12
San Diego, CA

Yet another great reason to have your own domain

One of the best moves I have made with regards to my internet access was to get my own domain. Costs me $9/yr to register it and about $3/mo for a place to get my email. I only wish I had done it sooner.

jbob
Reach Out and Touch Someone
Premium
join:2004-04-26
Little Rock, AR
·AT&T Southwest
·Comcast

Legit bouncing now?

I know that bouncing is typically frowned upon unless you know for sure the bounced message will go back to the sender but wouldn't seeing a "Blue Seal" on one of these certified emails be enough to bounce these messages? Guess it'll all depend on what's in the headers.
cghh

join:2001-01-15
Milpitas, CA


edit:
June 7th, @05:10PM

Re: Legit bouncing now?

said by jbob See Profile :

I know that bouncing is typically frowned upon unless you know for sure the bounced message will go back to the sender but wouldn't seeing a "Blue Seal" on one of these certified emails be enough to bounce these messages? Guess it'll all depend on what's in the headers.
The bouncing being referred to is having an SMTP server refusing to accept the message based on whatever criteria it wants. This is VERY different from sending a "bounce" message to a (probably forged) From: (or any other) header.

And concerning filtering on the "blue seal" header, why wouldn't they just have their server strip this header out before sending it to the (POP3/IMAP/WEB/whatever) client?
Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI

Won't affect me

I have Road Runner but I never get spam in my RR email accounts. I DO get spam in my dslr account. So, if RR implements this it won't affect me. I don't quite understand why it bothers anyone. Who opens email that is not from someone or some business that you know? I never open spam so it is not a big deal to me. Why does Verizon think people will open the spam they let through? Spam is spam so why would any spam ever be opened?
--
"If you want to do DRM on a PC then you need to treat the user as the enemy." Ross Anderson in "`Trusted Computing' Frequently Asked Questions"

»www.msfirefox.com/

Grail Knight
Who Dares Wins
Premium
join:2003-05-31
USA
·Verizon Online DSL

Re: Won't affect me

quote:
Who opens email that is not from someone or some business that you know? Why does Verizon think people will open the spam they let through? Spam is spam so why would any spam ever be opened?
Maybe because not everyone that receives email through Verizon* is as enlightened as you are about spam.

*Insert name of any ISP
Forums » Verizon Deploys 'Certified Email'

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