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ztmike
1kwikgt
Premium
join:2001-08-02
 ·Comcast
 ·AT&T Midwest
| ETF standard? I thought the ETF was standard? All cell companies have a ETF, whats this lawsuit about?
1 billion..that's a shit load of money..lol
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"I am the worst president in U.S history, I'm either stupid or dumb most of the time, but people still believe me." George W. Bush | |
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sousademiami
join:2003-02-04
Miami, FL
·Comcast
·AT&T Southeast
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January 31st, @10:37AM
| Re: ETF standard? said by ztmike  :I thought the ETF was standard? All cell companies have a ETF, whats this lawsuit about? 1 billion..that's a shit load of money..lol I did the math..70 million people at $175 each is $12 billion! Seems like they're not asking for enough! | |
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newyorkslick
join:2001-12-19
Rosedale, NY
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January 31st, @08:35AM
| Tough I'm sorry, but if you sign a contract that requires you pay a fee if you terminate your contract before the agreed upon time, then you should abide by that contact. If not, pick another carrier.
Problem is, almost every carrier has the provision.
I hope things change. | |
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N3OGH
They both suck, we're so screwed
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
·Verizon Online DSL
edit:
January 31st, @09:21AM
| Re: Tough said by newyorkslick :I'm sorry, but if you sign a contract that requires you pay a fee if you terminate your contract before the agreed upon time, then you should abide by that contact. Unless it's determined that contract is illegal.
An illegal contract is null and void the moment it's signed.
Example:
You enter into a contract with me to "dispose" of your 2007 Isuzu Honcho because you can no longer make the payments. You pay me with a crate of Valencia oranges and a gross of "Magnum" condoms for this service. I take receipt of your citrus and jimmy hats as payment for service and never provide said service (hey, with all that orangy goodness and protected McLovin', who would?).
You turn around and decide to sure me in small claims court for me not providing the service. You can't. It's an illegal contract from the start.
I know it's an exaggerated example, but I wanted to somehow work citrus fruit, mention of the publication "Honcho" and a box of rubbers into one of my posts some day.
I'm just glad that dream came true......
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Petty people are disproportionably corrupted by petty power… | |
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Sean
The Great Divide
join:2004-01-23
Richmond Hil
·Bell Sympatico
moderated:
January 31st, @12:38PM
| said by newyorkslick :I'm sorry, but if you sign a contract that requires you pay a fee if you terminate your contract before the agreed upon time, then you should abide by that contact. If not, pick another carrier. Problem is, almost every carrier has the provision. I hope things change. Yeah, and when am I going to hear you mention the companies never abide by their OWN fucking contracts in the first place?
Good on the People. | |
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TVD
@verizon.com
moderated:
February 2nd, @09:40AM
| Re: Tough Good on the People...right
Now these fuckers are going to cause me to pay $250 for a new phone, rather than getting a free phone every 2 years.
Think before you reply. | |
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| | | Ahrenl
join:2004-10-26
North Andover, MA
moderated:
February 2nd, @09:41AM
| Re: Tough You already pay that $250 in your bloated contract fees. | |
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| BF69
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN
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January 31st, @12:14PM
| said by newyorkslick :I'm sorry, but if you sign a contract that requires you pay a fee if you terminate your contract before the agreed upon time, then you should abide by that contact. If not, pick another carrier. Problem is, almost every carrier has the provision. I hope things change. So if they contract say left handed people aren't allow to use their service that's ok because it's in the contract? there are some things that shouldn't be allowed in contracts. | |
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JE
Can I Taste It? Mmmm
Premium
join:2000-12-15
Brooklyn, NY
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January 31st, @08:43AM
|  OH YEAH!
JE | |
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brooklynman4
join:2004-09-07
Brooklyn, NY | Re: OH YEAH! Well if its building for 4 years i guess they have there money ready to settle just like big companies. | |
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TK Junk Mail
Go ahead, make my day
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Margate City, NJ
clubs:
·Comcast
| said by JE :I hope these people win because it would set an Industry standard, and maybe this will be the beginning of the end of ETF's for cellular providers, or @ least a set minimum of maybe $50.00 LOL JE The std practice has already changed with the ETFs reducing over the length of the contract,
In 2006, Verizon took steps to soften the blow of early termination fees by implementing a proration plan for ETFs. The plan takes money off the total fee for each month of your contract you serve, so you are not hit with a full fee for terminating late in your contract. Competitors T-Mobile USA Inc., Sprint Nextel Corp. and AT&T Mobility also announced similar proration schemes.
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
| Re: OH YEAH! said by TK Junk Mail :The std practice has already changed with the ETFs reducing over the length of the contract, Since when has rationality ever factored into how lawyers do things?
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
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BabyBear
Keep wise ...with Night-Owl
join:2007-01-11
| Re: OH YEAH! said by pnh102 :Since when has rationality ever factored into how lawyers do things? Or contracts written completely by one side with no input from the other. | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
| Re: OH YEAH! said by BabyBear :Or contracts written completely by one side with no input from the other. Last I checked nobody holds a gun to one's head to agree to any cell phone contract. You can get cellular service without a contract if you like. Pay for the phone or go with prepaid service and you have no contract at all to deal with.
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
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| | | | | Ahrenl
join:2004-10-26
North Andover, MA | Re: OH YEAH! Without knowing what the actual complaint is, I think you're jumping the gun. Is it that the ETF is there at all? Or is that they were charged the ETF even though the contract was materially changed before hand. | |
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Fed_Up
@rr.com
| Part of the problem is that the cell-phone carriers can arbitraily change the terms of the contract without notice....if you call to make a small change to your calling plan, they can extend your contract for another 2 years from the date of that minor plan change. So, if you make a change 3 months before your contract end-date, they now extend the plan for an additional 2 years. YOU NEVER WIN! | |
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| lawrence171
Evilly Yours - Evilness
join:2001-12-24
Canada
·Acanac Inc.
| said by JE :I hope these people win because it would set an Industry standard, and maybe this will be the beginning of the end of ETF's for cellular providers, or @ least a set minimum of maybe $50.00 LOL JE They'll be forced to switch to the model being used in Asia.
Cell phones will bee purchased at full price, and monthly fees will be low. Either way, the providers make money because they'll then sell you the phones will a high mark up.
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What I used to be I no longer am... God, why can't you freeze time for my sake? | |
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Kramer
Premium,Mod
join:2000-08-03
Richmond, VA
clubs:
Host:
Microsoft help
Wireless Security
| Verizon Needs to do the Right Thing Prorating the remaining contract term seems like the reasonable thing to do at the very least. I would very much be in favor of a federal law prohibiting or limiting these contracts to one year for everything from cell phones, to Internet service to business telephone service. These contracts serve one and only one purpose and that is to limit competition. If the contract serves to subsidize a discount, then let the discounts disappear. Of course this wouldn't happen because if these companies provided good service and good equipment at fair prices, they would keep their customer's loyalty. The sad thing in this case is that Verizon does provide good service and does command good customer loyalty and they have lead the way in being more reasonable with these contracts, by prorating them. Verizon should lead the way again and do completely away with contracts. As far as the lawsuit, Verizon should penny up and pay all these people it has ripped off in the past. There is absolutely no justification for charging someone $150 to cancel a contract 23 months into a 24 month term. They corrected the problem and now they need to do the right thing. | |
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aaron8301
I can't get myself to go away.
join:2005-01-03
Clarkston, WA
·CableOne
| Re: Verizon Needs to do the Right Thing said by Kramer :These contracts serve one and only one purpose and that is to limit competition... ...Verizon does provide good service and does command good customer loyalty... ...As far as the lawsuit, Verizon should penny up and pay all these people it has ripped off in the past. You kind of contradict yourself there. If Verizon commanded good customer loyalty, they wouldn't require 2-year contracts, and they wouldn't be getting sued by people they ripped off.
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There comes a point in your life when you get tired of fixing everything and wiping everyone's ass. But it’s not giving up. It’s realizing that you don’t need certain people and the bullshit and drama they bring to your life. | |
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P Ness
You'Ve Forgotten 9-11 Already
Premium
join:2001-08-29
Cromwell, CT
clubs: | And the winners are...... the lawyers who will get 90% of any settlement and the users will get a 25 dollar verizon gift credit | |
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KSkipp
@verizon.net | Re: And the winners are...... P Ness, YOU are the winner for that comment. Awesome!! | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
|  Waste of Legal System
Come on. If you can afford paying $50 or so a month for cell phone service, then paying an ETF should be no big deal.
I hope the members of this class enjoy their $10 Verizon coupons.
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
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Julio
Bachatero y Que?
Premium
join:2003-03-19
Brooklyn, NY
clubs: | Re: Waste of Legal System even if the carrier is at fault for you wanting to cancel? | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
edit:
January 31st, @09:59AM
| Re: Waste of Legal System said by kfsutops :The reality is that Verizon provides you with crappy service, dropped calls, non-responsive customer service and "you" have to pay to get out of the contract. Verizon, and just about every other cellular carrier, gives you a trial period where you can test drive the service. I know that not every cell phone company works well everywhere, but if you decide to try Verizon and find that their service sucks where you use the phone the most, and you don't cancel at the end of the trial window, who's fault is that?
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
edit:
January 31st, @10:18AM
| Re: Waste of Legal System said by reelbigfish :How about the situation of me moving from one state to another. ... They still made me pay the ETF despite horrible service as they had "service" in the area according to their map. But you agreed to pay the ETF when you signed the contract.
The only basis for this silly case is that the "victims" did not like paying an ETF that they agreed to pay if they broke their contracts. Unless Verizon did something shady, I see no point of the lawsuit, and it would be nice if a wise judge threw it out.
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
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| | | | phantom6294
join:2002-02-27
Abingdon, MD
·RoadRunner Cable
·Comcast
·Cablevision
| said by pnh102 :Verizon, and just about every other cellular carrier, gives you a trial period where you can test drive the service. I know that not every cell phone company works well everywhere, but if you decide to try Verizon and find that their service sucks where you use the phone the most, and you don't cancel at the end of the trial window, who's fault is that? True, but (before they went to prorated ETFs) what happens when 6 months into a 2-Year contract, you have some problem (they start having billing errors every month and make your life miserable to get it fixed, the quality of your signal goes to the pits where you live, etc, etc, etc). What then? If the company does not provide a reasonable level of customer support, what is one to do? Yes, a contract was signed... but um, it's a two party contract... the customer and the company. If the company isn't performing to a reasonable standard, shouldn't the customer be able to terminate the contract without said ETF??? Obviously, the problem becomes defining "reasonable level of support/service."
At one time I had Cingular and had about 6 or 7 months left in my contract. I started getting weird and erroneous billing emails about an expiring credit card for my auto-pay. Come to find out, when I moved my service from one state to the next, they created a new account but never flushed the old account of auto-pay data (card wasn't being charged at least). I said I felt uncomfortable that Cingular was storing my credit card data in an unused and inaccessible account and asked how long it takes it flush said data out of the system. I was specifically told 12 months. Well, guess what, it had been 14 months. The CSR (actually I was already talking to a supervisor) started back pedaling, trying to change his story. In short, I was blatantly lied to. When I confronted the supervisor's supervisor, she didn't care. My next call to Cingular was to cancel my service. It cost me the ETF, but I more than made it up in not paying Cingular ~$50 for 6 or 7 months.
I am now a Verizon Wireless customer and have been a little over 2-years. When my contract expired, I bought a new phone at full price and did not renew my contract. I find some of the businees practices of Verizon Wireless to be unethical, but no more so than any other wireless company. Verizon Wireless' network has been great for me so I have no desire to switch companies. However, I will not be beholden to the company. | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
| Re: Waste of Legal System said by kfsutops :What does a trial period have to do with anything? I get 30 days, then they get 2 years or I have to pay them extra. 30 days should be plenty of time for someone to decide if the cell phone service they agreed to works. Heck, you could probably determine in a matter of hours if the service you chose works where you use the phone the most or not.
Just because the ETF sucks doesn't mean you can get out of paying it if you agreed to pay it.
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
| Re: Waste of Legal System said by kfsutops :So what you are really saying is that Verizon only have to live up to their end of the bargain for 30 days. While the consumer has to live up to their end for 2 years. Yes.
said by kfsutops :But, there is a difference between a lawful contract and an unlawful contract. This is what this case will be about. But that would only be true if ETFs were illegal.
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
| Re: Waste of Legal System said by elvey :I trialed cingular/AT&T service and returned the phone and cancelled within a week. And there are many who did cancel and had no problems at all. No system is perfect, but one bad experience doesn't mean the whole system is screwed up.
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
| Re: Waste of Legal System said by kfsutops :Let it go. He is astroturfing. How? I don't procure any products or services from Verizon.
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
| said by Julio :even if the carrier is at fault for you wanting to cancel? If a carrier cancels you, then you are not legally entitled to pay the ETF.
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
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Julio
Bachatero y Que?
Premium
join:2003-03-19
Brooklyn, NY
clubs:
| Re: Waste of Legal System said by pnh102 :said by Julio :even if the carrier is at fault for you wanting to cancel? If a carrier cancels you, then you are not legally entitled to pay the ETF. When was the last time you heard of a carrier canceling because they provide you with crappy service? They usually will cancel you only if you cost more money to have you on their service than from what you pay them for your service. Plus, if they cancel where is my ETF money then?
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
| Re: Waste of Legal System said by Julio :Plus, if they cancel where is my ETF money then? Did they agree to pay you one if they cancelled you? If so, you might have a case against them.
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
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| | | | | kingofdsl
join:2002-12-11
Afton, OK
| Re: Waste of Legal System said by pnh102 :said by Julio :Plus, if they cancel where is my ETF money then? Did they agree to pay you one if they cancelled you? If so, you might have a case against them. The lawsuit could result in refunds of $1 billion across the 70 million people who have been affected by Verizon’s $175 ETF
Woo hoo a whole $1.75 cent refund after lawyers fees. | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
| Re: Waste of Legal System said by kingofdsl :Woo hoo a whole $1.75 cent refund after lawyers fees. Actually if Verizon plays this right it could make a hefty profit. Instead of cutting checks for $1.75 or whatever, they will give out $1.75 coupons which are valid only if you purchase another service from Verizon. So many people will use these coupons and pay extra for the service that Verizon would more than make its money back after paying lawyers.
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Fed_Up
@rr.com | Re: Waste of Legal System Now THAT would actually be illegal. In a class-action suit, Verizon cannot choose the terms of their panalties...DUH! | |
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RickNY
Premium
join:2000-11-02
New York
·Optimum Online
| said by pnh102 :If you can afford paying $50 or so a month for cell phone service, then paying an ETF should be no big deal. Gotta love when people respond to stuff with this stupidity.. Thats the same thing as saying "If people can afford $1000 a year for car insurance, then paying $3500 as a penalty for switching companies should be no big deal." | |
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See 6 replies to this post |
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| averagedude
join:2002-01-30
Mesa, AZ
·Cox HSI
| $175 in and of itself may not be a bad thing....
What happens when you have a family plan of 5 phones?
5 x $175 = $875 !!!!
Now that is a lot of money, at least it is to me.
My issue is with the cell phone companies re-setting the 2 year contract date so that it is a perpetual contract.
There should not be a contract when you paid full price for the phone or brought your own phone with you. | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
| Re: Waste of Legal System said by averagedude :$175 in and of itself may not be a bad thing.... What happens when you have a family plan of 5 phones? 5 x $175 = $875 !!!! Now that is a lot of money, at least it is to me. That is a lot of money. Do you really believe that the $10 Verizon coupons you'd get as a result of this settlement will make up for $875? But again, just because people don't like a legally permissible fee doesn't mean they should be exempt from the fee if it comes time to pay it.
said by averagedude :My issue is with the cell phone companies re-setting the 2 year contract date so that it is a perpetual contract. There should not be a contract when you paid full price for the phone or brought your own phone with you. Well... that solves this problem then. There are also other ways to get cell phone service without contracts. Pre-paid phones are great for that.
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
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BabyBear
Keep wise ...with Night-Owl
join:2007-01-11
| Re: Waste of Legal System said by pnh102 :That is a lot of money. Do you really believe that the $10 Verizon coupons you'd get as a result of this settlement will make up for $875? But again, just because people don't like a legally permissible fee doesn't mean they should be exempt from the fee if it comes time to pay it. Don't think any 'settlement' ever makes up for the 'loss'. A 'judgement' perhaps has more of a chance. Course any member not satisfied with the settlement is able to opt-out and seek relief on their own.
It's the legality of the fee and its basis is what will be ruled on, assuming verizon doesn't just settle. | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
| Re: Waste of Legal System said by BabyBear :Don't think any 'settlement' ever makes up for the 'loss'. A 'judgement' perhaps has more of a chance. Course any member not satisfied with the settlement is able to opt-out and seek relief on their own. True. But I don't think we will see anyone suing Verizon for $175. Like I said before, these class action lawsuits are nothing but enrichment for lawyers and scraps for the "victims."
said by BabyBear :t's the legality of the fee and its basis is what will be ruled on, assuming verizon doesn't just settle. Unless states or Congress make ETFs illegal, any ruling against Verizon that invalidates the ETF will almost certainly be overturned on appeal because the basis for the ruling will essentially be that the judge doesn't like ETFs. Of course, simply not liking a business practice is not grounds for overturning it.
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Alakar
Facts do not cease to exist when ignored
join:2001-03-23
Milwaukee, WI
·AT&T Midwest
| Re: Waste of Legal System said by pnh102 :said by BabyBear :Don't think any 'settlement' ever makes up for the 'loss'. A 'judgement' perhaps has more of a chance. Course any member not satisfied with the settlement is able to opt-out and seek relief on their own. True. But I don't think we will see anyone suing Verizon for $175. Like I said before, these class action lawsuits are nothing but enrichment for lawyers and scraps for the "victims." said by BabyBear :t's the legality of the fee and its basis is what will be ruled on, assuming verizon doesn't just settle. Unless states or Congress make ETFs illegal, any ruling against Verizon that invalidates the ETF will almost certainly be overturned on a |
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Verizon Faces Largest-Ever Class Action
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