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Verizon Is NOT Booting P2P Users Off Of Network
Tells Broadband Reports nobody's been kicked off yet...

Yesterday we directed your attention to an article over at CNET that claimed Verizon had started kicking accused P2P pirates off of the Internet, after recently agreeing with the RIAA and MPAA to send more DMCA warning letters. That claim was supported by a quote by a Verizon spokesperson confirming that "we've cut some people off." But in subsequent conversations with Verizon, Broadband Reports has learned that Verizon is neither booting people from the network for excessive use (common among carriers like Comcast or Qwest), nor have they booted any users who receive one too many DMCA letters.

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In fact, Verizon spokesperson Bobbi Henson tells us she was misquoted by CNET, and that while the company reserves the right to boot heavy users or P2P pirates from the network, they haven't actually done so yet. "I'm not aware that we've ever terminated anyone's account for excessive consumption, although we reserve the right to do so," says Henson about the quote, reiterating that Verizon has no bandwidth caps. "That part of the CNET story is wrong," she says. "I did not say 'we've cut people off'; I said we reserve the right to do so."

So Verizon isn't booting heavy users off of the network like Qwest, but are they booting customers off of the network for trading in copyrighted P2P files, like Cox? Nope.

This program has not resulted in the termination of any Verizon customer's service.
-Verizon
"This is not an automatic 'three strikes' graduated response program," insists Henson of the company's ramped up DMCA letter forwarding campaign. "This program has been effective in reducing instances of repeat notices and has not resulted in the termination of any Verizon customer's service," she says. "Our goal is to protect our customers' privacy and due process rights while recognizing the importance of copyright protection and acquiring content legally," she says. "We believe our program strikes a reasonable approach and is working very well."

The letters sent to users inform them that "should we receive additional notifications alleging that you have engaged in online copyright infringement, we reserve the right to suspend or terminate your Verizon Online account." Verizon's revamped copyright website doesn't even go that far, making no reference to account suspension.

The question then becomes is this essentially just a big bluff on Verizon's part? You'll recall there's been rumors over the last few months that the RIAA's proposed shift from "suing the hell out of everyone" (TM) to getting ISPs to ramp up DMCA letter notifications was little more than a scarecrow. If so, it's a bluff that lets Verizon have their cake and eat it too, by allowing them to retain paying customers, reduce strain on their network but still please the MPAA and RIAA.

It's not clear Verizon's willing to take the next step and boot paying customers, given the legal repercussions of terminating accounts based on little more than an IP address and a wink from the entertainment industry. Taking a hardline stance against P2P piracy could have marketing and financial repercussions, with users migrating to more piracy-friendly ISPs, and existing users downgrading from faster speed packages that were used primarily for P2P transfers.

Most carriers aren't thrilled about the prospect of being content nannies, and are eager to show the MPAA and RIAA that they can reduce piracy with simple warnings. Should these warnings not work, you can be fairly certain the next step would involve entertainment lobbyists pushing harder for the kind of "three strikes" laws we're seeing in places like France and the UK. Carriers don't want these new regulations, so it's in their best interest to play along with the entertainment industry.

In a follow up this morning, we asked Henson whether Verizon would eventually migrate to a real "graduated response" system, but the carrier wouldn't offer additional comment. Meanwhile, we invite any reader threatened by Verizon with account termination to drop us a line and share your experience.
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baineschile
2600 ways to live
Premium Member
join:2008-05-10
Sterling Heights, MI

1 edit

baineschile

Premium Member

Common

quote:
Broadband Reports has learned that Verizon is neither booting people from the network for excessive use (common among carriers like Comcast or Qwest), nor have they booted any users who receive one too many DMCA letters.
I wouldnt consider people getting booted common. Both companies have claimed that less than 1% of users are affected, and most curb online behavior after 1 warning.

Kudos to VZ though for not playing internet cop.

edit: Curb*

Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02

Karl Bode

News Guy

Re: Common

I meant it's fairly common among carriers to boot users for excessive use, not that they actually do it all that often.

jadebangle
Premium Member
join:2007-05-22
00000

jadebangle

Premium Member

Re: Common

What verizon mean is that you will be disconnected if you don't pay for broadband but not for p2p activity or excessive bandwidth usage?

Belinrahs
I have an ego the size of a small planet
Premium Member
join:2007-09-07
Nashville, MI

1 edit

Belinrahs

Premium Member

Re: Common

said by jadebangle:

What verizon mean is that you will be disconnected if you don't pay for broadband but not for p2p activity or excessive bandwidth usage?
No. Karl's saying that it's fairly common for users to be booted for really excessive bandwidth usage (even though it rarely happens) - this has nothing to do with not paying your bill. Of course you'd get disconnected if you didn't pay, collections would be on your tail soon after anyhow.

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

FFH5 to baineschile

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to baineschile
said by baineschile:

I wouldnt consider people getting booted common. Both companies have claimed that less than 1% of users are affected, and most curb online behavior after 1 warning.

Kudos to VZ though for not playing internet cop.
But by telling everyone that they are bluffing, the threat letters will lose their power to affect behavior. Sooner or later Verizon will have to actually stop bluffing and start tossing customers.

Belinrahs
I have an ego the size of a small planet
Premium Member
join:2007-09-07
Nashville, MI

Belinrahs

Premium Member

Re: Common

said by FFH5:

But by telling everyone that they are bluffing, the threat letters will lose their power to affect behavior. Sooner or later Verizon will have to actually stop bluffing and start tossing customers.
Exactly. DSLR is a highly-visible site, and any customer faced with such a letter can use the power of Google and learn this. If the knowledge gets to be well-known enough, the MAFIAA's going to push Verizon to actually start terminating customers.

That's merely an ideal scenario though. (ideal for who? )

fifty nine
join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ

1 edit

fifty nine

Member

Re: Common

Or even worse, if they get no traction with Verizon or other ISPs they could simply subpoena the information and attempt to sue individuals. Thats' when it will get really ugly.
iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX

iansltx

Member

Re: Common

Well, that's what they've been doing anyway...
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gatorkram
Need for Speed
Premium Member
join:2002-07-22
Winterville, NC

gatorkram to FFH5

Premium Member

to FFH5
said by FFH5:
said by baineschile:

I wouldnt consider people getting booted common. Both companies have claimed that less than 1% of users are affected, and most curb online behavior after 1 warning.

Kudos to VZ though for not playing internet cop.
But by telling everyone that they are bluffing, the threat letters will lose their power to affect behavior. Sooner or later Verizon will have to actually stop bluffing and start tossing customers.
I am not aware of any laws, forcing V, or any other company to toss people off their networks, for excessive warnings. All they have to do, is pass on the notice to the user.

fifty nine
join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ

fifty nine

Member

Re: Common

There is no law, correct but there may be pressure from copyright owners.

gatorkram
Need for Speed
Premium Member
join:2002-07-22
Winterville, NC

gatorkram

Premium Member

Re: Common

said by fifty nine:

There is no law, correct but there may be pressure from copyright owners.
I always felt, this was unfair, and network operators should stand up against such things.

The internet is just a road, or pathway if you will. It shouldn't be up to the ISP to do anything, but pass on the notice.

You can see where I am going with this. The network operator is no more responsible, for what I do on their network, than the people who make my shoes are, if I happen to have shoes on when I shoplift.

This type of thinking is outdated.

gotmeonce
@verizon.net

gotmeonce to fifty nine

Anon

to fifty nine
Way back when before time warner bought out adelphia in this are, i had an FTP website that was protected with usernames and passwords. Within the ftp site where 5 dvd rips I had made, they were back-ups of movies I owned, and i had originally posted them for my uncle to get back-ups without having to rip his own. I had also backed up every music cd i owned at the time and had them there. You can legally make one back-up copy of any copyrighted movie or song that you legally own. Long story short, The awesome hackers at RIAA and the MPAA got past the username and password requirement, copied down all the file names, if i remember correctly with each song, 300 and change. They contacted Adelphia, who in turn shut my internet off, when I called to report an outage they told me what had happened and gave me a number to call. So I called them, explained that i owned all the files that were there, and that my server was for my own private use, and was password protected including unique usernames. I mentioned digital trespassing, my internet was turned back on within an hour.

I even think you could get away with posting iso's of dvds and music cds if you own them, and included a disclaimer that the site owner holds no responsibility for users unauthorized downloading of files they dont own an original copy of, and that you own copies of all files hosted. If you have proof your not breaking any laws.

The problem with P2P networking and torrenting is that most people dont realize that you can turn off sharing, of course then no one would be able to download anything, but it seems these organizations are going after the uploaders not the downloaders. I have torrented windows xp home edition iso, because when I purchased this pc, i bought windows. But my new laptop didnt come with a recovery cd or dvd, but rather a recovery partition, if my harddrive crashes, i have no way to recover from that partition, there for i need a way to re-install windows.
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Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02

Karl Bode to FFH5

News Guy

to FFH5
But by telling everyone that they are bluffing, the threat letters will lose their power to affect behavior.
I doubt that.

People have been getting these DMCA letters for years, and users have been pointing out how on most carriers they aren't backed up by any solid action for just as long. That hasn't stopped people from freaking out every time they get one, and I bet there's oceans of moms and dads out there who'll get these letters and put a stop to junior's P2P use right quick, regardless of some tech forum's statement that this is, in essence, a bluff.
Sooner or later Verizon will have to actually stop bluffing and start tossing customers.
Not unless there's a law, and there isn't one yet.

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

FFH5

Premium Member

Re: Common

said by Karl Bode:
Sooner or later Verizon will have to actually stop bluffing and start tossing customers.
Not unless there's a law, and there isn't one yet.
Even without a law, pressure can and will be applied that Verizon may be forced to react to eventually.

jester121
Premium Member
join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL

jester121 to Karl Bode

Premium Member

to Karl Bode
Maybe they'll put a stop to junior's P2P use because he's illegally uploading copyrighted material, and not out of fear that they're going to lose their triple play discount.

Maybe.
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N3OGH
Yo Soy Col. "Bat" Guano
Premium Member
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs

1 recommendation

N3OGH to baineschile

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to baineschile
Oh shit, I just got booted.

Oh wait, no I didn't
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nonymous (banned)
join:2003-09-08
Glendale, AZ

nonymous (banned) to baineschile

Member

to baineschile
Qwest does not boot after once incident. This would take very high usage for a few warnings on end. The cap i believe also if fairly large.
Now crank your 40/5 service up full blast 24/7 you most likely will get called on it. But no immediate killing of service.
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funchords
Hello
MVM
join:2001-03-11
Yarmouth Port, MA

funchords

MVM

Any smaller ISPs doing 3-strikes or graduated response?

We know Cox is doing a 3-strikes-like graduated response for copyright, but is anyone else actually doing this?

Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02

Karl Bode

News Guy

Re: Any smaller ISPs doing 3-strikes or graduated response?

No. Only Cox so far. And even Cox gives users something like forty strikes, not just three.
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Quake110
Premium Member
join:2003-12-20
Ottawa, ON

Quake110

Premium Member

Typical of CNET...

... a sensationalist online news source that only cares about advertising money by publishing so called controversial news.
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ptrowski
Got Helix?
Premium Member
join:2005-03-14
Woodstock, CT

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ptrowski

Premium Member

Boy, she she is misquoted alot....

Is it just me or is she "misquoted" fairly often?

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
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KrK

Premium Member

Re: Boy, she she is misquoted alot....

said by ptrowski:

Is it just me or is she "misquoted" fairly often?
Whenever a really bad sounding policy hits the news the first thing the company on the defensive says is that they were "misquoted" or their comments were "taken out of context" and that it's all a misunderstanding.....
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Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02

Karl Bode to ptrowski

News Guy

to ptrowski
I'm still not sure how you misquote "we've cut some people off" if you're a journalist sitting there with the e-mail transcript or the call recording. I think she must have misspoke -- or Verizon's just getting a little too clever with the bluff....
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Riplin
join:2002-05-13
canada

Riplin

Member

listen up

Booting your bread & butter

There's a business model destined for success.

FO riaa mpaa

•••

TamaraB
Question The Current Paradigm
Premium Member
join:2000-11-08
Da Bronx
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TamaraB

Premium Member

Kudos to Verizon

Verizon, to their credit, are staying within the spirit and letter of the law.

Unless legal due process is observed, there is no case! A subpoena is required after just cause is proved to a judge, then the copyright cops must submit evidence that what was transferred was indeed copyrighted material, then a legal action needs to be filed, either civil, or criminal. Finally, a jury needs to convict.

This automatic guilt by accusation is not only illegal, but Un-American to it's core. The very concept is disgusting, and a violation of our rights as citizens. Kudos to Verizon!!

Bob