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Verizon Nabs Most Valuable 700Mhz Spectrum
AT&T, Verizon together spend $16.2 billion out of $19.5 billion auction total

The FCC today announced the winners of the 700Mhz auction, and not too surprisingly, Verizon Wireless came out as the auction's biggest winner, nabbing a significant portion of the treasured C-Block spectrum. That spectrum was considered the last great chunk of wireless real estate, and some (including search giant Google) had hoped it could be used to build a network that would rival those of incumbents AT&T and Verizon.

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The company, which is jointly owned by Verizon Communications Inc. and Vodafone Group PLC., won six large licenses that effectively will give it a national license to provide next-generation wireless broadband service in the so-called C-Block of the spectrum being sold. In addition, it was the largest winner of licenses in the A-block, which are medium-sized licenses, and won 77 more in the B-Block, the smallest licenses that were being auctioned off.
After all of the noise and fury made by Google, the company won absolutely nothing. Many will argue Google "won" by effectively convincing the FCC to attach "open access" conditions to the spectrum Verizon won, but given the loose wording of the conditions and Verizon's cozy lobbying relationship with the FCC, those stating the conditions are game changing are over enthusiastic.

AT&T was another big winner -- failing to net any huge licenses (they didn't need them), but grabbing 227 licenses from among the "B" block of regional licenses. All told, AT&T spent $6.64 billion and Verizon spent $9.63 billion at the auction -- making up $16.2 billion of the nearly $20 billion Uncle Sam made. Frontier Wireless, partnered with Echostar, did grab some spectrum in the "E" block, but all in all it was an auction dominated by the major players.
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Lark3po
Premium Member
join:2003-08-05
Madison, AL

Lark3po

Premium Member

Boo!

Damninit!

oroper
Patriots Rule
join:2004-06-01
Beverly, MA

oroper

Member

Re: Boo!

said by Lark3po:

Damninit!
agreed.

Google failed me

RadioDoc

join:2000-05-11
La Grange, IL

RadioDoc

Re: Boo!

What did google promise you?

Lark3po
Premium Member
join:2003-08-05
Madison, AL

Lark3po

Premium Member

Re: Boo!

said by RadioDoc:

What did google promise you?
Where did he state google promised him something?

RadioDoc

join:2000-05-11
La Grange, IL

RadioDoc

Re: Boo!

The claim is that google failed him.

Google is a very large commercial enterprise. I don't remember them promising anyone anything about this. Their "open access" ramblings were to their potential benefit, nobody else's.

Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02

4 recommendations

Karl Bode

News Guy

Re: Boo!

But they have to be nice. Their logo has colored letters in it.
B04
Premium Member
join:2000-10-28

B04

Premium Member

Re: Boo!

And on holidays it gets real purty.

-- B
gaforces (banned)
United We Stand, Divided We Fall
join:2002-04-07
Santa Cruz, CA

1 edit

gaforces (banned) to Lark3po

Member

to Lark3po
I hope the FCC and Congress learned that they shouldn't allow one company to control the wireless spectrum, so that we can have competitive pricing and services.
Next auction they should deny previous winners from bidding.

en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA

en102

Member

Re: Boo!

I agree. Companies with deep pockets can 'sit' on the spectrum for a while, unless they're pressed to deploy.

NOCMan
MadMacHatter
Premium Member
join:2004-09-30
Colorado Springs, CO

NOCMan to gaforces

Premium Member

to gaforces
So next auction AT&T will win the majority of the licenses? How does that benefit anyone.

Problem is because we have 2 competing technologies GSM\CDMA we see no direct competition. Plus since about 90% of the potential market is already locked up getting another company to step in is tantamount to telling them to go bankrupt trying.

You would have to offer a very lucrative offer to get any customers plus the network build out required would cost billions just to cover the top 20 markets.
gaforces (banned)
United We Stand, Divided We Fall
join:2002-04-07
Santa Cruz, CA

1 edit

gaforces (banned)

Member

Re: Boo!

Just keep draining their cash with more and more auctions till they get the picture ...
It's not like theres a shortage of spectrum.

Dude9
What Happens When I Do This
Premium Member
join:2000-11-20
Chicago, IL

Dude9 to gaforces

Premium Member

to gaforces
said by gaforces:

I hope the FCC and Congress learned that they shouldn't allow one company to control the wireless spectrum, so that we can have competitive pricing and services.
Next auction they should deny previous winners from bidding.
agreed

but how this country is now i doubt it. its all about how much green you have and not about taking care of people

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium Member
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK

1 recommendation

KrK

Premium Member

As Predicted...

No surprise here, and nothing gained for US consumers.

Verizon and at&t. Big surprise. Sometimes I hate being right.

jester121
Premium Member
join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL

1 recommendation

jester121

Premium Member

Re: As Predicted...

said by KrK:

No surprise here, and nothing gained for US consumers.
Ridiculous statement. Do you think they're going to sit in a dark cave admiring their spectrum? "My precioussss"

No, they're going to develop technology that uses it, and sell that to CONSUMERS. It's expected, according to basic economics, that people who give Verizon money to use the spectrum will benefit from it.


factchecker
@cox.net

factchecker

Anon

Re: As Predicted...

said by jester121:

said by KrK:

No surprise here, and nothing gained for US consumers.
Ridiculous statement. Do you think they're going to sit in a dark cave admiring their spectrum? "My precioussss"
Considering in the past, bidders have placed bids just for the purpose of locking out competition by denying them valuable spectrum, it is a distinct possibility.

There is absolutely no guarantee that anything will be done with the spectrum.

jester121
Premium Member
join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL

jester121

Premium Member

Re: As Predicted...

You're right, but those weren't multi-billion dollar, geographically diverse, very useful frequencies that everyone has been salivating over. Different animal entirely here.

factchecker
@cox.net

factchecker

Anon

Re: As Predicted...

said by jester121:

You're right, but those weren't multi-billion dollar, geographically diverse, very useful frequencies that everyone has been salivating over. Different animal entirely here.
I'll grant you that point. The fact that this spectrum is so sought after makes it far less likely that they will sit on it and do nothing, but past behavior by some of these companies certainly does weigh in on people's opinion of who won.
Fisamo
Premium Member
join:2004-02-20
Apex, NC

Fisamo to factchecker

Premium Member

to factchecker
said by factchecker :

Considering in the past, bidders have placed bids just for the purpose of locking out competition by denying them valuable spectrum, it is a distinct possibility.

There is absolutely no guarantee that anything will be done with the spectrum.
Agreed. There is no guarantee that they will do anything with these licenses. But they will be sorely pressed to use, instead of shelve, the assets forthe following reasons (among others) :
  • Consumer demand for advanced services

  • Shareholder demand for ROI (which won't come from simply locking out competitors by 'shelving' such a license

  • Consumer demand for "more bars in more places", which should be possible at this frequency


Rhetorical question: If not the incumbents, who has the cash to compete with them on the license purchase, besides Google and Microsoft? WHY would Google or Microsoft compete against the incumbents if the asset isn't at the core of their business model?

Those of us on the sidelines can probably think of numerous reasons Google should have bid to win, but the only discussions that count are those that occur in Google's boardroom, and the 'nays' clearly prevailed.

en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA

en102

Member

Re: As Predicted...

And how long has Sprint 'shelved' its spectrum for WiMAX ? Its been years. With Sprints stock in the toilet, they may actually have to sell of Xohm.
I don't expect much different from AT&T.
OwlSaver
OwlSaver
Premium Member
join:2005-01-30
Berwyn, PA

OwlSaver to factchecker

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to factchecker
In most auctions of public assets, there is a requirement to make good economic use of the asset for the public good in a specified time. If the winner does not, they loose both the asset and the money they payed for it. Land auctions typically work this way.

Does anyone know if this auction has such a provision? If it does, do they define 'economic use' and 'public good'?
russotto
join:2000-10-05
West Orange, NJ

russotto

Member

Re: As Predicted...

Yes, these auctions contain build-out provisions. I do not know the wording; I do know that it is based on covering a certain percentage of the population with service.

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium Member
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
Netgear WNDR3700v2
Zoom 5341J

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KrK to jester121

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to jester121
No, they will use it to sell the same services they already sell, albeit maybe better coverage, or expanded reach, but at price points and with features and limitations they impose, not what consumer want. I was hoping for an expansion in competition, maybe a third broadband front (Widespread wireless from another player)... but while I was hoping for it, I expected this result.

This will not be a win for consumers. Sure, you might get sweeter tasting Kool-Aid, but it will still be Kool-Aid.

For many more rural areas, this auction was a hope that someone would step up and use this spectrum to provide wide ranging broadband over a large area.... Even if it wasn't that fast, it would beat the 26.4k or 33k dial-up they're stuck with. Unfortunately, the auction didn't come out that way. Looks like much of the USA will remain unserved or underserved for decades to come.
KrK

1 recommendation

KrK

Premium Member

No Competition, no hope of any...

... welcome to the Internet third World. We'll be there soon.... Caps, throttling, "Traffic Management, Filters, DRM, packet inspection, and per byte billing. All these things are the great future Americans have to look forward too.

Such BS.

dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium Member
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ

dvd536

Premium Member

Re: No Competition, no hope of any...

said by KrK:

... welcome to the Internet third World. We'll be there soon.... Caps, throttling, "Traffic Management, Filters, DRM, packet inspection, and per byte billing. All these things are the great future Americans have to look forward too.
What do you mean FUTURE? we have all that crap now!

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium Member
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK

KrK

Premium Member

Re: No Competition, no hope of any...

Yeah, but as time moves forward, these practices will spread and become universal here, and the rest of the world will advance and we shall fall by the wayside.

Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02

Karl Bode

News Guy

(topic offline) well good, that should pay for another week of w

Moderator Action
This entire topic was removed, either temporarily, or permanently.

stated reason was:

keyboard5684
Sam
join:2001-08-01
Pittsburgh, PA

keyboard5684

Member

I puked.

That is just one of the most disgusting things I have seen in a while. You know what I would like, good competition.

What would have been nice is having more spectrum for wireless ISPs. They are the best solution, right now and for some time, to competition and servicing rural areas. Verizon will just continue to rape us.

Thanks for the auction. Get all your steak dinners in, cigars over brandy, and some cool jokes from the verizon joke writers?

jester121
Premium Member
join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL

jester121

Premium Member

Re: I puked.

said by keyboard5684:

What would have been nice is having more spectrum for wireless ISPs. They are the best solution, right now and for some time, to competition and servicing rural areas. Verizon will just continue to rape us.
Never heard of a wireless ISP that doesn't

(a) charge more for service
(b) have more restrictions and/or caps
(c) turn to crap in bad weather
(d) operate like the shoestring operations that they are when it comes to tech and billing issues

Not saying there aren't some out there that don't fit this mold, but most do.

keyboard5684
Sam
join:2001-08-01
Pittsburgh, PA

keyboard5684

Member

Re: I puked.

There are some bad ones.

In rural areas many rely on them.
No, not always shotty service.
Weather should not be a problem either.

Done right it works.
What many people do not realize is at some point, your internet connection probably goes over a wireless link

RadioDoc

join:2000-05-11
La Grange, IL

RadioDoc

Re: I puked.

It's "shoddy". Unless you misspelled "shitty".
ydoucare
join:2003-03-12
Lafayette, IN

ydoucare

Member

...

*vomits*

battleop
join:2005-09-28
00000

battleop

Member

Oh Geezz

That's a shocker. I guess the only thing we didn't know is how much they actually spent on this.
ColeStorm
join:2001-07-20
Minneapolis, MN

ColeStorm

Member

Google a $100 billion company

Google is a big boy. They have a higher market cap than Verizon and no debt. If they wanted, they could have ponied up some cash but instead they would rather someone else build the network for them.

•••
EPS4
join:2008-02-13
Hingham, MA

EPS4

Member

Good!

Can't wait to see that LTE! In just what, three years? (Hey, they can't even use all that expensive spectrum for another year)

Though, I wonder if they'll try to shift some other services currently using higher spectrum bands to 700MHz, and then deploy LTE on higher bands- supposedly higher bands are supposed to be better for data carrying (and don't have that pesky open-access). On the other hand, moving their existing services means all those devices already set up for those services being on the cellular or PCS band are useless....

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

FFH5

Premium Member

Comissioner Adelstein plays politics & race/minority card

Maybe he is angling for the FCC chairmanship if a Dem wins the White House in November.

»hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_ ··· 73A1.pdf
Preliminary FCC data regarding winning bidders in the 700 MHz auction indicated that, based on self-reporting, women-owned bidders failed to win any licenses and minority-owned bidders won less than one percent of licenses (7 of 1,090 licenses, or .064%), despite the fact that women constitute over half the U.S. population and minorities around one-third of the U.S. population.

In response, Commissioner Adelstein stated:
Its appalling that women and minorities were virtually shut out of this monumental auction. Its an outrage that weve failed to counter the legacy of discrimination that has kept women and minorities from owning their fair share of the spectrum. Here we had an enormous opportunity to open the airwaves to a new generation that reflects the diversity of America, and instead we just made a bad situation even worse. This gives whole new meaning to white spaces in the spectrum.
I guess his solution was to GIVE the licenses to preferred DEM minority supporters and party contributors instead of auctioning it off.
EPS4
join:2008-02-13
Hingham, MA

EPS4

Member

Re: Comissioner Adelstein plays politics & race/minority card

This has to be one of the strangest criticisms ever... Especially since most of the companies were publicly-owned with a massive number of stock-holders, which probably includes a lot of women and minorities.

Yes, the new Democratic argument is now apparently to give away spectrum rather than auction it off- after all, it's not like the government needs the money, the Democrats don't have any plans to expand the government, and we're running a surplus anyway...

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium Member
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK

KrK to FFH5

Premium Member

to FFH5
He's one of those big "The Digital Divide" types. He's probably just PO'ed that the same big players won.

His focusing on race/sex is well, pretty silly, but then again, he believes there's a massive digital divide, so....

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

2 edits

FFH5

Premium Member

3 PDFs attached laying out what big 3 won by area

I went to the FCC auction site and created 3 PDF files that show what licenses the 3 big winners in the auction got. If you open the PDFs, you can see which player got licenses in what areas.

Verizon Wireless
VerizonWireless.PDF
143871 bytes
Verizon Wireless


AT&T
AT&T_auction···ults.PDF
216700 bytes
AT&T


Frontier Wireless(Echostar)
FrontierEchostar.PDF
162960 bytes
Frontier Wireless(Echostar)


Here is the full list of winners from the FCC sorted by license #, if you want to wade thru it(74 pages):
»hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_ ··· 95A2.pdf

needforspeed59
Cruise Ship Just Passing Through
join:2001-05-02
La Place, LA

needforspeed59

Member

Difference between A, B,C and E?

Can someone explain the differences or provide a link to a place that does? Why is C better than A, B or E? Thx!

•••
axus
join:2001-06-18
Washington, DC

axus

Member

not bad

Google bid what they said they would bid. I don't have any problem with them at all, they may encourage some application competition in the new spectrum that is missing from the current spectrum.

Verizon and AT&T have a little less cash to spend on lobbying now. I think Verizon and AT&T will actually use this spectrum instead of sitting on it, since they paid so much.

The US treasury gets a nice influx of cash... which our budget desperately needs.

dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium Member
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ

dvd536

Premium Member

Google cellphone

Was our last chance to actually get something fair.
jellybean
join:2006-07-15
Mountain Home, AR

jellybean

Member

why an auction?

Ok explain it to me like I'm 4 years old.WHY bid on any of this?Why not jsut build the network on the new spectrum? Never understood all this crap anyway.This is my area - this is yours- someone please explain WHY not just have each company compete with each other?
tmc8080
join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY

tmc8080

Member

700mhz uses

Well, this can expand the number of frequencies that push-to-talk services use and lower their latency lag because they use higher frequency spectrum now. Just another notch forcing Sprint into bankruptcy. Once Verizon lowers some of their other wireless calling plans.. Sprint is going to be in BIG trouble. Then google can buy Sprint on the cheap and get into the wireless business. That is, if one of these foreign investors doesn't snatch 'em up sooner (think exchange rate).