Verizon Neglecting DSL, Landline Support In Multiple States Yet another state says Verizon copper support sliding badly... Last month we noted how Verizon has increasingly been under fire from regulators in West Virginia, Florida and New York for slacking when it comes to maintenance and customer service for their aging DSL networks. With so much money to be made on getting into the TV business via FiOS TV, workers, customers and regulators say the telco is cutting corners in markets it's less interested in (when they're not busy just selling these markets outright). The result is poor customer service and long repair times for DSL and landline customers in a significant portion of the company's footprint. Delaware is the latest to confirm something is seriously afoot when it comes to Verizon copper, an independent consultant finding that Verizon's coming up short in that state as well in terms of keeping its landline and DSL customers happy. Unfortunately, the vast majority of the consultant's report has been redacted upon request by Verizon. But the PSC's concerns are made pretty clear in comments to the News Journal concerning a Verizon settlement with the state: "What the public gets out of this, more than anything else, is a renewed clarification to Verizon that they needed to be more responsive to their customers, and maintain what is admittedly an old system," PSC spokesman Dave Bonar said. "Realizing that everything is moving toward a more technological system is no excuse for not maintaining the people who live in rural districts who are connected by copper cable." Every time we've asked the carrier, Verizon has vehemently denied that they're neglecting their copper-based markets, but it's becoming rather clear that those markets (and the employees who work in them) believe otherwise. In what's an additional trend we're noticing, Verizon's battling harder with each state PSC to weaken the determination of what constitutes a speedy repair, as the Charlston Gazette examines: The PSC's Consumer Advocate Division alleges that Verizon is inflating performance data to make it appear the company is fixing customers' problems quickly and meeting service standards. Of course Verizon's thinking that if they weaken the standards it will look like they're doing a better job -- without actually having to do a better job -- a tactic most cable and phone companies have employed for years. Combined with Verizon's efforts to sell unwanted markets to companies using fancy financial tactics that wind up crushing the buyer underfoot, the company's decision to hang up on a significant portion of their customer base seems like a story overshadowed by the company's investment in FiOS.
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 | | Such a shame! One day we applaud their wireless division for receiving average scores from Consumer Reports while their landline side suffers from neglect.
I like Verizon, but they should be called out for this BS if true. | |
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| I only going to get worse I my city will 3/5 is wired for FIOS. The sections that are not are wired the DSL, and land line performance is terrible. My wifes mom telephone service is awful, but right across the imaginary line of richness that Verizon put in is Sparkling new FIOS service. Verizon doesn't have a time table to cross the street. This isn't a rural town but a mid sized city Verizon has done this in. I can't imagine how they are doing rural markets. | |
|  iansltx join:2007-02-19 Golden, CO kudos:2 Reviews:
·Verizon Online DSL
·Comcast
| On the other hand... Verizon *is* launching DSL in some markets, though a fair number of launch markets are being limited to 3 Mbps service. Still, it's better than nothing (or overpriced business-class cable for biz customers). Now whether Verizon is just using DSL to test interest in internet as a whole (if there's enough interest, they put in FiOS) or whether they're just doing it to pump up market values before a sale to Windstream or similar is another issue, but I'm sure the folks who are getting DSL are happy about it. Even if the upper limit on speed is 3/768, it's a heckuva lot better than satellite, and a $30 a TON cheaper. | |
|  |  Jim_in_VA join:2004-07-11 Cobbs Creek, VA kudos:3 | Re: On the other hand... And I'm sure those are cherry picked just like FIOS -- ... need help? »evdo-tips.com/ | |
|  |  |  iansltx join:2007-02-19 Golden, CO kudos:2 | Re: On the other hand... Meh, not so much cherry picked as "Let's put a DSLAM in the CO and whatever remotes we have lying around and see what happens" | |
|  |  |  |  Jim_in_VA join:2004-07-11 Cobbs Creek, VA kudos:3 | Re: On the other hand... yeah, wish they would give that a shot where I'm at -- ... need help? »evdo-tips.com/ | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  iansltx join:2007-02-19 Golden, CO kudos:2 Reviews:
·Verizon Online DSL
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| Re: On the other hand... The TX upgrades (for both areas) aren't on that list because they don't impact CLECs, etc. If you can find me info on DSL being launched in my CO (FRBGTXAA I think) then that's cool, but the info you linked doesn't include that, nor does it include info on the new DSL deployment near Dallas (Azle, TX etc.) | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  rawgerzThe hell was that?Premium join:2004-10-03 Grove City, PA | Re: On the other hand... You got the name wrong, look it up here on the maps and just google it. That reg info is all I've come across, not even mine is on it, either because of no CLEC like you said, or incompetence --
You can't make all the people happy all of the time. But it should be common sense to shoot for the majority. | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |  iansltx join:2007-02-19 Golden, CO kudos:2 | Re: On the other hand... I don't think it's so much due to no CLEC being in the area as the fact that adding a DSLAM in the CO doesn't render any services inoperable, unlike converting some copper based systems to service via a DLC. | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |  iansltx join:2007-02-19 Golden, CO kudos:2 | Sorry, CO is FRBGTXXA (not TXAA). Couldn't find much on it. There is a CLEC or two in there (DSL from what is now Windstream, wireless from Sprint and I think AT&T) but no info otherwise. | |
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 |  |  |  joakoPremium join:2000-09-07 /dev/null kudos:5 | I wonder if they just happened to have unused DSLAMs from FIOS areas? -- PRescott7-2097 | |
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 |  |  | | VZ DSL deployments in PA are being driven by consumer demand. Thanks to a state law passed in 2005. If 25% or 50 housholds in a service area will submit a form with VZ stating they will buy DSL for 1 year, VZ then MUST by Law install DSL within 1 year of the min number of households being met. It is called the Bona-Fide Retail Request program (BFRR). They are installing fiber-fed remote terminals, with battery backup and DSL. All new equipment, and the POTS lines served by these RTs also get a POTS upgrade since the POTS lines are converted to the fiber at the RT (eliminating miles of copper between customer and CO) . True they are only offering 3MB/768 $30/mo service, but far better than sat. Cable won't come out to our rural area and WISP is not practical due to hills, winding valleys, and forest. Cell coverage is getting better, but no 3G around here. | |
|  |  |  |  rawgerzThe hell was that?Premium join:2004-10-03 Grove City, PA | Re: On the other hand... You left out a few key points. It takes as little as 8 months before deployment starts, to as much as 2 years depending on how many state wide are being done. Also, not many residents know of the program, which is both good and bad. And most importantly, VZ only does a maximum of 20 "major" deployments every year. So if your area is number 21 on the list, you effectively wait 13 months or more before you're even on the "To Do list". The same probably applies to Embarq/Centurylink and Windstream but have much less presence in PA. --
You can't make all the people happy all of the time. But it should be common sense to shoot for the majority. | |
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 |  en102Canadian, eh? join:2001-01-26 Valencia, CA | I'm sure that Clear, and VZW's future LTE will be hitting the markets that they don't serve FiOS to, and specifically the markets that they sold to Fairpoint.
Rid themselves of POTS/Landline service, put in a lower cost, higher demand wireless service (LTE), and get paid to do it (tax write off). -- Canada = Hollywood North | |
|  |  |  Jim_in_VA join:2004-07-11 Cobbs Creek, VA kudos:3 Reviews:
·Northern Neck Wi..
| Re: On the other hand... Absolutely, LTE and WiMax are game changers, and using Voip with them is "in the works". Getting Ma&Pa to give up their POTS will be a problem. Thus Verizon will need to keep maintaining the copper, for 911 if nothing else. -- ... need help? »evdo-tips.com/ | |
|  |  |  |  en102Canadian, eh? join:2001-01-26 Valencia, CA | Re: On the other hand... I suspect that they'll be 'pushing' a digital land line replacement that uses LTE.
1. WLL (wireless landline). A fixed device at the demark that will use LTE to make calls, and ties into traditional POTS phones.
2. A wireless router / MiFi style for home POTS/DSL replacement.
In rural areas this would be VERY cost effective. -- Canada = Hollywood North | |
|  |  |  |  | | said by Jim_in_VA:Absolutely, LTE and WiMax are game changers, Can't wait for those revolutionary 5 GB caps! | |
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 | | They're not neglecting ...their copper support. This is not neglect; it's a concerted effort to NOT support them! There's a difference. | |
|  |  | | Re: They're not neglecting A solid point. If you're joking. | |
|  |  |  | | Re: They're not neglecting I'm trying. | |
|  |  |  |  | | Re: They're not neglecting Genius, sir. | |
|  |  |  |  |  | | Re: They're not neglecting I just love it when I see people say VZ is not supporting "rural" areas. I ldon't live in a rural area or a depressed area. But I have underground utilities. I've lived with a hum on the line for the past 15 years. VZ refuses to replace their faulty copper and instead does temporary fixes that last between 3 and 6 months. So 2 to 4 times a year they get another service call. I talked to one tech saying they could fix this problem once and for all if they just run fiber, which is just outside our development 3 blocks away. He laughed at me, told me we would be the very last to get fiber. VZ will not look to get the necessary street permits etc while there are much easier routes to light up - ie topside poles. I went in the house that day and cancelled my phone service, switch it to VOIP from the cable company any never looked back. | |
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·Frontier Communi..
1 edit | 7 week and 8 week service delays 2 Examples from Central Illinois where Verizon Service has Declined, Caused 7-8 Week Street Construction Delays in July 2009
1) 7 week delay in Washington, Illinois »www.washingtontimesreporter.com/···ext-week
Quote from Washington, IL article above: ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Construction on North Cummings Lane is seven weeks behind, and traffic will be rerouted beginning Monday in an effort to expedite the project.
Work on the roadway has been suspended since June 1 due to Verizons prolonged delays in relocating its underground phone cables, said city administrator Bob Morris.
City engineer Ken Newman said the phone company finally moved the cables Friday, and work on the sewer system was expected to resume Tuesday, weather permitting. Work on the sewer system should be completed by the end of the week, allowing road construction crews to resume their work next week.
They tell us they have everything out of the way, and I hope we dont run into anything more, Newman said.
Still, Newman said, it has been a frustrating process, and Verizon had no excuse to delay its responsibilities for nearly two months.
The telephone company had frequent communication, including several pre-construction meetings, with city officials in the months leading up to the project, Newman said.
Morton also reportedly had problems with Verizon and has had to postpone a project on East Jefferson Street because of the phone companys failure to relocate its utilities. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Heard that Washington IL's Mayor spent better of a day trying to contact anyone at Verizon to get this issue moving. His previous various Verizon contacts information, from pre-construction meetings, was no longer valid. Bad communication, from a communication company....!
2) 8 week delay in Morton, Illinois »www.mortontimesnews.com/news/x18···e-months
Quote from Morton article above: ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Superintendent of public works Bob Wraight said the project is starting about eight weeks later than planned because Verizon workers discovered phone wires in an unexpected area of the street.
We had engineers out there last fall and didn't see it and Verizon didn't know it was there either. The cables have been relocated and moved now, but if we cut that, the whole east end of town would be out of service, Wraight said. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ | |
|  backfeedis giving feedback join:2002-12-16 Peru, IN Reviews:
·Comcast
| Not Only Verizon I see At&T doing (rather NOT doing) much to the copper in Indiana also. DSL is spotty, and there are sections where above ground cables are literally falling off the poles, or poles are broken and leaning against trees. They have been this way for several years. It is clear that preventative maintenance is very low on the list of priorities!  -- There are 10 types of people. Those who can read Binary and those who cannot. | |
|  El GaupoPremium join:2006-07-15 Buckhorn, NM | FYI 95% of the poles are owned by power companys not telco's.If the poles are falling over call the power company. State and local goverment projects have mandates for the utility companys and if such work is not done on time they pay fines.Att would rather pay the fines than do the work. | |
|  |  backfeedis giving feedback join:2002-12-16 Peru, IN Reviews:
·Comcast
| Re: FYI said by El Gaupo:95% of the poles are owned by power companys not telco's.If the poles are falling over call the power company. State and local goverment projects have mandates for the utility companys and if such work is not done on time they pay fines.Att would rather pay the fines than do the work. That is true in many cases, but the ones that I spoke of were replaced many years ago on the opposite side of the road, Cable and power moved to the new poles, AT&T did not. They were given the poles as the local power utility had no further use for them. There are tree limbs hanging on the cables, and poles leaning back against other trees. There are 4 heavy telco lines in this stretch. They really are looking very neglected. -- There are 10 types of people. Those who can read Binary and those who cannot. | |
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 1 edit | verizon sucks Wow, a non-glowing article about Bell Atlantic, er, I mean Verizon! What's going on???
This is further proof that Verizon sucks. There's no excuse for such horrible service. In contrast, when I moved in to my new place my service did not work. I informed Qwest about it at 8 PM. They found and fixed a broken wire and it was working the next morning. But that doesn't matter because Qwest is not installing FTTP in a small fraction of their service territory like VZ. Yay Verizon! Working service in the wealthiest 10% of the areas you serve! | |
|  |  | | Re: verizon sucks What are you talking about....I live in a poor area and I get FIOS. | |
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 |  | | fios tv All I know is that the Verizon FIOS DVR sucks....doesn't hold up to dishnetwork's DVR one bit....cancelled after two days. | |
|  | | Degraded DSL service (on purpose) Both my mother & my sister live in the Western NY area (Amherst & West Seneca). These are both suburbs of Buffalo and far enough apart from each other in the same area that demonstrates a wider fishy problem.
I help both of them remotely on a regular basis. About a year ago I ran a speed test on each of their connections (I drop my remote connection immediately after pressing start so as not to affect the outcome). What I found was pretty obvious. For the previous 2-3 years they had been getting bandwidth around 1.2 Mbps down & 500 Kbps up. When they complained (both of them at about the same time within a span of a month) about slow connection speeds I ran a new test. BOTH connections now had bandwidth speeds of 300 Kbps down & 70 Kbps up. Both were about as exact as you could get on a bandwidth measurement. It's as if there was an intentional cap put in place all of a sudden. No matter how many times I ran the test, the bandwidth was always within 10-20 Kbps of the same on either connection.
I immediately urged both of them to call up and complain about the recent decrease in bandwidth. Neither of them had success. They were both told their lines were optimized and running at their peak performance technologically possible. This is complete BS considering my history of tests I ran on their connections (with the history data saved here on BBR.com). What's even more disgusting is that they were both heavily encouraged to upgrade to Verizon's new FIOS service instead - where the representatives boasted about the much increased performance compared to their inferior older DSL connections. The sad thing is the bandwidth measurements they were advertising for FIOS weren't much better than what my family members USED TO GET with their DSL connections through the same company [Verizon].
Essentially the purposely are degrading their DSL service in the WNY (western New York) area to get people to pony up more money and get a FIOS connection. It's disgusting. | |
|  | | verizon fraudulent billing on landlines verizon deliberately uses fraudulent billing in my rural area and the whole region to discourage landline use (which is the thriftier alternative for the poor) and to repay themselves for their neglect. It illegally overbills everyone through cramming, slamming, scamming, and shamming and otherwise padding the bill. Some people will spot the bogus fee, call and complain. It may be removed from the bill easily or it might require hours, or a lawsuit. Meantime, a certain percent will pay the fraudulent charges, adding up to millions in free money for verizon every month. In the story linked below, the fraudulent charge was $8.67. If this type of fraud was billed to 2 million customers and a tenth of them paid it -- that's $1,734,000 in free money, in exchange for absolutely nothing, simply by tricking people into thinking they owe it for something. Even if verizon's cut of the action were only a dime, it would walk away with $20,000. But we can be pretty sure it's rather more than that.
intro excerpt below from: »www.nytimes.com/2009/12/13/your-···ler.html December 13, 2009 The Haggler What Charges Lurk on the Phone Bill By DAVID SEGAL
IN this episode, the Haggler spends several days tracking down the source of a gratuitous $8.67 charge. Hey, Haggler, you say, arent there some real scandals out there to investigate? Have you nothing better to do with your time?
Not really. Because the Haggler is endlessly fascinated by the many ill-gotten fortunes in this country that are earned in tiny increments, usually buried in places that make them easy to overlook. We delve today into one of the great wellsprings of such mini-schemes the phone bill.
Q. This months Verizon bill contained a mysterious $8.67 charge for unsolicited services from a company called Enhanced Billing Services Inc. A disclaimer noted that your local telephone service will not be disconnected for failure to pay the charges on this portion of your bill. Ive never signed up for this service.
rest of story:»www.nytimes.com/2009/12/13/your-···ler.html | |
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