 bamabrad
join:2006-01-27 Port Orange, FL | GIVE them the state franchise... just spell out exactly what you expect in return-complete build out! | |
|
 |  nasadude
join:2001-10-05 Rockville, MD
·Comcast
| Re: GIVE them the state franchise... said by bamabrad :just spell out exactly what you expect in return-complete build out! that's the issue Verizon has - they DON'T WANT TO commit to serving all areas. | |
|
 |  |  PDXPLT
join:2003-12-04 Banks, OR
| Re: GIVE them the state franchise... quote: Note to Verizon lobbyists and PR execs: selling localities you already refuse to serve with DSL on the idea of eliminating franchise build-out requirements for your next-gen services is an uphill climb, no matter how many times you use the word "competition."
No kidding!! And "competition" is the reason these folks don't have DSL in the first place. Verizon, expecially, views DSL mainly as a customer-retention tool (FIOS, BTW, is viewed by them primarily as a TV service). With no competition from cable in these towns, there's no need to deploy DSL, in the minds of Verizon officials.
I'm in the same boat. The neighborhood's served by a new RT, but without the DSL line cards, because the Comcast footprint stops short of reaching us as well. | |
|
 |  itguy05
join:2005-06-17 Camp Hill, PA
| quote: just spell out exactly what you expect in return-complete build out!
Ask the state of PA how what worked out for them. It didn't - Verizon (actually Bell Atlantic) promised PA the world and delivered none of it. | |
|
 |  |
 |  megarock
join:2001-06-28 Saint Louis, MO
·Charter Pipeline
| Don't feel bad. SBC/ATT was so bad they told me I couldn't get DSL and I was 100 feet away from the CO (I'm still there) then all of a sudden I became eligible for 6Mbps Elite service overnight. All happened because people don't know what button to press. | |
|
 krebster Premium join:2005-03-25 Allentown, PA | Thanks Verizon "...Verizon Wireless will be offering EV-DO via a local cell tower starting in November."
For ~$80/mo and for very limited use else they will disconnect you. | |
|
 |   pb5k more cowbell Premium join:2005-11-16 Tempe, AZ | Re: Thanks Verizon Aw c'mon. 640k 10 gigabytes ought to be enough for anybody.
 | |
|
 |
  CPM
join:2001-08-24 Miami, FL | USA IS F'ed up Man USA is so F'ed up, these days. | |
|
 |   elios
join:2005-11-15 Springfield, MO | Re: USA IS F'ed up yup untill broadband is treated as a utilty this wont stop | |
|
 |   Spazmoto Not Lost
join:2003-08-22 Hyperspace | Part of the problem is that the USA is a huge land mass. Hard to wire up every inch of it ya know... -- "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe." -Carl Sagan | |
|
 |  |   tsu
join:2001-08-17 Wheeling, IL | Re: USA IS F'ed up Yes, it is quite easy to simply forget about lower profit regions entirely. | |
|
 |  |   CPM
join:2001-08-24 Miami, FL | That is the problem. USA people only do things for money. Not for the quality of life, for the greater good. | |
|
 |  |  |   Fatal Vector
join:2005-11-26
| Re: USA IS F'ed up "That is the problem. USA people only do things for money. Not for the quality of life, for the greater good."
That's the greedy, spineless, self centered, self absorbed, money grubbing sheeple of the United States for you. Such a "great" society we have, eh? | |
|
 |  |  moresuo
join:2001-08-26 Stewartsville, NJ
| Any given State whose foot print is covered by Verizon is not bigger than Japan and certainly isn't bigger than western Europe, both of which enjoy full 30Mbps coverage throughout their countries, border to border.
The utility companies have been getting fat on corporate welfare, support taxes [do you know you pay a tax on your cellphone and hard line usage SPECICIALLY to give the telecommunication utilities underwriting capital to expand their networks into the hinterlands?], and have failed to spend necessary deployment capital to keep us current with the rest of the world.
The country that invented ARPAnet is behind little South Korea in high speed internet technology. SOUTH KOREA!!!
I'm a former FidoNetter [amateur network that began in the '80's and was a breeding/testing ground for a lot of the technology used today. We used the Bells own technology to huge amounts of information across standard POTS lines and beat the Bells tariffing system LEGALLY.
I say we do it like we did it than.
NEIGHBORHOODS SHOULD BAN TOGETHER, BRING IN T1 LINES AT ABOUT $400/MONTH AND DIVIDE THE COST AMOUNT THE PARTICIPATING USERS. GO INTO DIRECT COMPETITION WITH VERIZON USING THEIR FIBER TO DO IT.
Initial outlay would be under $3000 + the $400/month. That is the same as a $125 installation charge and $20/month for 25 users [and if their are more users the costs go down] for a N class wireless network at T1 speeds [1.5Mbps downstream AND up].
Enough people doing that would crisp their cookies but good. | |
|
 |   KrazyDawg
join:2001-02-07 Vallejo, CA clubs:
| We live in a capitalistic society. It's all about making money at all costs. The BS taxes people are paying that supposedly serve these rural areas aren't being put into good use. The US is billions of dollars in debt with no social security for the next generation and not much of it was used to improve the quality of life. There's money out there. Millions of dollars are being used to contruct new memorials in the DC area. The 9/11 memorial is projected to cost a total of over 30 million with 11 million in donations to date. | |
|
 |   Spazmoto Not Lost
join:2003-08-22 Hyperspace | Bone-headed replies. Nobody does anything out of the goodness of their heart. | |
|
 |   CPM
join:2001-08-24 Miami, FL | The quality of life, sucks in the USA. | |
|
 |
 |   pb5k more cowbell Premium join:2005-11-16 Tempe, AZ
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Verizon should go to legislature & forget cable reg agency Should they stick the cash in congressmen's freezers or just buy them Rolls Royces instead? I think the cars would be a bit high profile myself.  -- "When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.'" -- Theodore Roosevelt | |
|
 |  |  |
 |  |  |  vinnie97
join:2003-12-05 Mesquite, TX
| Re: Verizon should go to legislature & forget cable reg agency tough titty for the country bumpkins basically, eh?  | |
|
 |  |  |  |   tsu
join:2001-08-17 Wheeling, IL | Re: Verizon should go to legislature & forget cable reg agency He advocates corruption. Don't mind him.  | |
|
 |  |  |  |  |  |
 |  |  |  |  |  |   tsu
join:2001-08-17 Wheeling, IL
| Re: Verizon should go to legislature & forget cable reg agency That would be supporting (and advocating) corruption, Tk.
"Play[ing] the game" as you put it is rather directly opposed to the principles that are supposed to be upheld by said "play[ers]." That it's happened throughout the ages does not mean it is correct, otherwise, we'd never see elected officials tossed in jail over this sort of back-room shenanigan. -- "You do not secure the liberty of our country and value of our democracy by undermining them, that's the road to hell." - Lord Phillips of Sudbury. | |
|
 |  |  |  |  |  |   Karl Bode News Guy join:2000-03-02
Host: Road Runner PC gaming GAMES PC gaming Tech
edit: August 23rd, @09:40AM
| quote: Nice troll attempt. I don't ADVOCATE it, but I do live in the real world and recognize that that is how things have worked since the founding of the Republic. You play the game or get to sit on the sidelines with the losers.
You advocate corruption (if it can be gotten away with), the elimination of government authority over corporations, and anything else that benefits your retirement Comcast stock holdings.
And please stop lecturing the site users about trolling, you're one of the site's largest ones. | |
|
 |  |  |   Fatal Vector
join:2005-11-26 |
Who cares about Rolls Royces? Give me the cash. | |
|
 |   tsu
join:2001-08-17 Wheeling, IL
| Yes, bribes are more effective when dealing with lawmakers.
Quite sad when it comes down to how much a company has to pay off the legislature in order to do something the community doesn't want. -- "You do not secure the liberty of our country and value of our democracy by undermining them, that's the road to hell." - Lord Phillips of Sudbury. | |
|
 |  nasadude
join:2001-10-05 Rockville, MD edit: August 22nd, @05:33PM
| tkjunkmail-
It seems safe to say you oppose regulation of any kind, anywhere, anytime, for any industry.
Or is it just regulation that the telco industry doesn't like? | |
|
  truedalife
join:2003-01-10 Brooklyn, MD
| Broadband discrimination is wrong!!! Your missing the whole point. Verizon only wants to serve area's that they feel are profitable and have a better change of creating a cable turn over. That means some folks will get the service while others don't. This is broadband discrimination and it wrong. Verizon is this piranha in a small pool of water, slowly drying in the desert Sun. It will do anything to stay alive right now. Even if it means throwing up this middle finger to the lower working class. | |
|
 |  PDXPLT
join:2003-12-04 Banks, OR
| Re: Broadband discrimination is wrong!!! said by truedalife :Your missing the whole point. Verizon only wants to serve area's that they feel are profitable Actually, they could serve alot more areas at a profit than they are now. Check out some of the data on www.dslprime.com. They simply choose not to. They either feel the money will have a higher return being spent on FIOS deplyments (for people that already have DSL), or just not spent at all, and help the balance sheet.
Now if they were worried that they were going to lose these customers to a cable co., maybe permanently, they'd take a different tack. | |
|
  pnh102 Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty Premium join:2002-05-02 Mount Airy, MD | Why Dump Only on Verizon? Aren't whatever cable companies which don't serve these areas just as guilty? -- Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
|
 |  |
 |  |   pnh102 Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty Premium join:2002-05-02 Mount Airy, MD
| Re: Why Dump Only on Verizon? said by DaveNJ :Nope because they are bound to service agreements, those areas not served should be written into the next franchise. Verizon doesnt offer that type of resolution. Perhaps these towns should offer some sort of tax incentives for the private sector to implement some sort of broadband network. If they aren't happy with Verizon, then someone else might be able to fill the void instead. -- Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
|
 |  |  |   DaveNJ No Fear
join:1999-09-01 New Jersey
·Patriot Media
·Cingular Wireless
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Why Dump Only on Verizon? said by pnh102 :said by DaveNJ :Nope because they are bound to service agreements, those areas not served should be written into the next franchise. Verizon doesnt offer that type of resolution. Perhaps these towns should offer some sort of tax incentives for the private sector to implement some sort of broadband network. If they aren't happy with Verizon, then someone else might be able to fill the void instead. I think if neither cable or telco wants to serve an area, MUNI fiber should be allowed, as long as it non profit. Later the system could be rented/lease to a private corporation. -- the darkest moment is often just before dawn (unless we hold onto the darkness). Anxiety spoils everything and solves nothing. | |
|
 kderby
join:2000-02-09 Bellingham, MA
| Free market system? Isn't Verizon's denial of wiring any area that they deem as 'non-profitable' part of the free market system?
They're not required by anyone to install anything anywhere. This is akin to someone forcing Shell to set up a gas station in a rural area, that only serves a few cars.
As someone stated above, until broadband is treated as a utility (and is essentially *required* to be delivered to all citizens [for the most part, don't split hairs here]),then these companies can install or not install as they see fit. | |
|
 |  |
 |  lithicus0
join:2006-06-30 Chesapeake, VA
| That is true, however President Bush made a telecommunications act that requires all areas to have broadband by (guessing, 2009). That same act delegates that television be converted to iptv in a couple of years. Not only is this act in effect, it also rewrites and overrides some rules of capitalism.
P.S. Keep in mind that I am not trying to start a flame war on bush, I am completely sick of the lack of support for government and I am a republican. | |
|
 |   ghopper
join:2004-06-28 Everett, WA
·Comcast
| Actually, the system is not at all a "free market system."
A true free market system requires not only no (govt.) regulation of price, but also depends on a perfect competition model to avoid buyers getting screwed when sellers create artificial scarcity.
Here Verizon has no (real) competition. Verizon also can and has created scarcity. Last but not least, Verizon is using it's position as a utility to bring in the infrastructure and prevent other competition whenever and where ever it can.
As a side note to this, where ever they are installing FIOS, they are tearing out the copper to prevent having to share the copper ie. there's no copper so we don't have to share, and there's no law saying we have to share the fiber. This is currently happening here in the Puget Sound area of Washington State.
Back to the discussion: so put another way, in a free market system, a rural customer might have to pay more, but would be able to purchase the service. There are other economic models, that work similarly, but also have the extra profit made from serving the dense areas being used to subsidize the extra current cost of setting up in less dense areas. the seller then makes it back as he sees a profit from the late comers.
This is like a public improvement district where the first comers pay to set the lights/sewer/water/whatever up and subsequent builders have to pay the buy-in or hookup charge that reimburses the first people to build in an area and fronted the costs.
If Verizon or whomever is going to get a franchise (the exclusive right to service a given area) they gotta cover he whole area. If the agreement leaves loopholes you can drive a truck through, the residents need to blame the UTC and the government that was involved in granting the franchise. | |
|
 |  mckenna797
join:2004-08-25 Astoria, NY
·RoadRunner Cable
·Time Warner VOIP
| The Point Is that Verizon is looking for an Unfair advantage in its Battle with the cable Companys , Almost all cable company Franchise's required the cable company to wire the whole city or town,Including economical depressed areas and provide free service to schools Libarys what verizon wants is to pick and choose who and where they will wire Fios, anyboy see this as redlining communities | |
|
  ChickenLittle
@comcast.net | Trying to Get Verizon DSL ....Is like pulling teeth from a chicken! | |
|
 amungus Premium join:2004-11-26 America clubs:
·Cox HSI
| what I don't get. Ok, so I understand the debate on "profitable" areas... not going to comment on that part.
I understand distance limitations for DSL.
What I don't understand, is why telephone lines are run ANYWHERE... to MOST households anywhere. It took lots of time, and lots of work, and lots of money to pay for all of it.
So if they spent all that time wiring up everyone, why not offer DSL to ANY area with more than say, 5 houses within a mile, who want it? Why aren't these companies REQUIRED to wire DSL nodes to places that ASK kindly to PAY these people more?
I understand leaving a spot here or there because of maybe workload, logistics, or that maybe nobody ever asked. There are several places around here that can't get it, but there are also those who ask for it... there's a wonderful little telco east of here that sucked it up and gave the people what they wanted... as a result, there's DSL in the boonies for people who might NEVER have had any other form of high speed internet.
"DSL is available to most of our customers where we provide telephone service."
-and in fact, MILES out of town!
»www.wamtelco.com/?IN-DSL
I lived out at a friends house 5 or 6 miles out of town, 1.5Mbps DSL with low latency and a stable connection.
Why can't these Furry-eye-zoned-out (verizon) losers suck it up and help out their neighbors???
That's what I don't get. The people who built the phone system as we know it were not weaklings. They had to suck it up and do what had to be done... Again, I realize distance limitations here with a digitized signal, but if people are clammoring for it, why not hook 'em up? Esp. if the MAJOR work has already been done! All it really takes is what, a few quality repeaters, some cards? Time? Money?
Yes it does. So did setting up those lines. Betcha it cost MUCH more to do that than it would to finally get some DSL to people.
...Then again, what I really think is that ALL the telco's should be working on turbo, ultra, super, fantabulous FIBER... | |
|
 |  soothsayer15
join:2002-03-01 Irving, TX
·Verizon FIOS
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: what I don't get. For the Telco's it's all about survival. They are losing landlines faster than they are signing up DSL customers. It's pretty obvious that DSL will not save them. That's why video and speed are so important. AT&T will be destroyed by that U-Verse and Homezone BS.
One of the previous posters was right. This is a capitalist society. Though no cable company or Telco will admit it, they would all prefer areas with high returns on investments. Don't kid yourself, that's what deployment is, an investment. Business isn't charity. Try to open a well known fast food restaurant. many are pretty picky about where you open one of their stores. Is it right? Maybe not. But you don't stay in business for being a good citizen. Voting is done with dollars now. If you don't have the money, you're stuck out. | |
|
 |  |  moresuo
join:2001-08-26 Stewartsville, NJ
| Re: what I don't get. said by soothsayer15 :AT&T will be destroyed by that U-Verse and Homezone BS. AT&T isn't a long distance communications carrier business anymore. They want to be IBM. That is their goal now-days. The offer turn-key networking solutions. | |
|
  FIB3RTECH
@comcast.net | Cable has had to deal with local franchises for years Now Verizon decides to get into Video and complains about something that has been in place for years. Competition is great, but both should be on a level playing field. | |
|
 |   batterup I Can Not Tell A Lie. Premium join:2003-02-06 Netcong, NJ clubs:
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Cable has had to deal with local franchises for years said by FIB3RTECH :
Now Verizon decides to get into Video and complains about something that has been in place for years. Competition is great, but both should be on a level playing field. Does YouTube need to suck local hustlers toes to show videos? NO. A national TV franchise is coming, Bush owes the Tel Cos big time for the NSA wiretapping thing. | |
|
 |  Sammer
join:2005-12-22 Pittsburgh, PA | The cable companies didn't have to go through what the telephone companies did to get into the phone business so where's this level playing field. | |
|
 moresuo
join:2001-08-26 Stewartsville, NJ
| Do it the way we use to in Fidonet Use the phone companies own fiber to compete directly with their services.
Neighborhoods get together, lease a T1 line at about $400/month, lay out about $3000 in initial costs [the same as about a $125 installation charge and $20/month usage fee for 25 users... more users, those costs go down] the paying members of the neighborhood have a wireless "N" class network service with full T1 speeds [1.5 Mbps down stream and UP].
That should get the Bells [including Verizon's] attention. | |
|
 |
|
 |