  morboComplete Your Transaction
join:2002-01-22
00000 | Misstep by big red This is a misstep by Verizon. Why be the only carrier to lock the boot loader? There is safety in numbers. | |
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 |  cdruGo ColtsPremium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:7 | Re: Misstep by big red Obviously other carriers should also lock the boot loader then.  | |
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| |  veloslaveGeek For GodPremium
join:2003-07-11
Pleasant Hill, CA | Re: Misstep by big red said by cdru:Obviously other carriers should also lock the boot loader then.
You might be right...
As a custom ROM user for many years... cracking boot loaders has never been the issue... just makes it a little faster/easier when unlocked.
OTOH... coming from Verizon's position, they are selling you Phone "A" with OS "1." If you are buying a phone and expecting constant updates... then you are living in denial and Verizon shouldn't have to put their support system at risk by floods of calls from idiots that flash (or fail to flash) their high end smart phones (I like to call them MPC's for Mobile PC's) and get stuff screwed up. That is not what the provider/Verizon is selling. They do provide OS upgrades but only after they are very satisfied it will not be a problem on the network... and they are usually successful with this as well. (Except with my phone when it came out)
I think it is cool enough that they are meeting demand by selling the cool high end phones we want (Sporting a Sammy Galaxy Nexus ((that came unlocked)) and a custom Jelly Bean Rom at the moment) phones that they know many of them will be customized... but expecting them to promote or support modding would be totally insane for ANY telco unless maybe Sonic.net decides to become a wireless/cell phone provider
If you start promoting or condoning modding then you are going to end up being somewhat responsible when the dweebs get it wrong and that is exposing yourself to service liability that no company could risk.
Sell them the phone, let them do their thing, it's all good.
--
Mom was right.... I NEED fiber! | |
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| | | | | Re: Misstep by big red Yet, they sell iPhones which tend to get all the updates.
This is little to do with support costs or if it will work on the network and everything to do with a contract between Google and Verizon that is not in the best interest of the consumer. | |
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| | | | veloslaveGeek For GodPremium
join:2003-07-11
Pleasant Hill, CA | Re: Misstep by big red might want to get to the end of the thread before you say anything... oops, too late. 
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Mom was right.... I NEED fiber! | |
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| |  elwoodbluesElwood BluesPremium
join:2006-08-30
HarperLand
 ·Cybersurf Intern..
| said by cdru:Obviously other carriers should also lock the boot loader then.
For competitive symmetry. | |
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decifal
join:2007-03-10
Bon Aqua, TN
kudos:1 | i'm sure Don't worry, their secret brother in law ATT will follow suit as well.. For our protection of course | |
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rmdir
join:2003-03-13
Chicago, IL | Who needs them? I'm sure not going to recommend this phone to anyone, and I really hesitate to recommend Verizon to potential new customers. A buddy of mine is going to be free and clear of his AT&T contract this summer, and while I've told him he's better off with Verizon I am forced to withdraw that statement. | |
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| Reviews:
 ·Verizon FiOS
 ·DIRECTV
 ·Optimum Online
·Cablevision
| Re: Who needs them? To be fair it really depends, the to the vast majority of Verizon customers this doesn't matter at all, they don't install custom roms and while it's a pain to more technical people, Verizon has always locked down as many of their phones as they can. This isn't an issue for the average customers
There outrageous share everything prices, that's something the average customer should be worried about, not this.
I'm currently a Verizon customer still on unlimited data, and I'll probably ride that out as long as I can find decent phones to buy used just to keep my unlimited data. Moves like this are designed to push users like me, sticking with unlimited and modify my phone software, which let's be fair, the people who install custom roms and the people who abuse unlimited data are the same group of people often. I am a heavy user I admit, but I don't go crazy, I average 6-8gb. I don't consider that abuse as it's within current packages they sell. Going over 20gb however that's abuse to me and we all pay for those users.
If you want to lump me in with those users it's fair, their may be some rationalization going on on my part | |
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| | | | Re: Who needs them? said by MovieLover76:There outrageous share everything prices, that's something the average customer should be worried about, not this. Exactly. I'm travelling and am close to my 4GB data cap. I logged into the website to bump my data up for a month and guess what? That's a contract change so I have to move to a Share Everything plan. Nice.
I think I'm just going to chance the overage charges, as it would be less than switching to a Share Everything plan. | |
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| |  ieolusSupport The Clecs
join:2001-06-19
Duluth, GA | Nobody thinks what they use "abuse".
Not that I consider your usage abuse... just sayin'.
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"Speak for yourself "Chadmaster" - lesopp | |
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| | | |
| | | | | | Re: Who needs them? Can we really get 80GB over a cellular connection?
I can't on my Vz LTE phone! | |
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| | | | | | | Re: Who needs them? Over the course of a month, you most definitely can if you tether. I'm not saying trying to download one 80GB file in one go lol. Check XDA for threads about bandwidth usage on an Verizon LTE phone | |
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| | | | |  mmay149qPremium
join:2009-03-05
Dallas, TX
kudos:48 | said by jjeffeory:Can we really get 80GB over a cellular connection?
I can't on my Vz LTE phone!
I've never gotten my usage that high, but I have hit 30GB in a month on VZW's LTE network with my Droid Bionic, I literally spent every day at work streaming Netflix to my phone the 1st month I got it, it's possible and it's not hard.
Matt
--
I am no longer an AT&T Employee. Check out my kudos! »/profile/1626573
Have U-verse questions? Please email uversecare@att.com and they will assist you!!  | |
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| |  HallPremium,MVM
join:2000-04-28
Dayton, OH
kudos:2 | said by MovieLover76:To be fair it really depends, the to the vast majority of Verizon customers this doesn't matter at all...
I'd say it doesn't apply to 90% or more. To those that it does matter, they'll either a) avoid this model or b) they'll know that it's still locked and may never get unlocked. | |
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| | | | How does a user with an unlimited data plan "abuse" it? Oh, do you work for AT&T or Verizon? | |
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| veloslaveGeek For GodPremium
join:2003-07-11
Pleasant Hill, CA
1 edit | said by rmdir:while I've told him he's better off with Verizon I am forced to withdraw that statement.
So instead of Verizon... the company with THE best network, fantastic 4G coverage and speeds... the company with THE BEST customer support (year after year) you would tell him to go to a company with worse service and a much weaker network just because of a locked boot loader??? You said this is a FRIEND???
There is nothing to see here people... the irony is that the "LOCKED" boot loader was already cracked almost a week ago and the phones just now started shipping..
»www.engadget.com/2012/07/07/veri···tloader/
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Mom was right.... I NEED fiber! | |
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| | Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·Verizon FiOS
 ·voip.ms
| Re: Who needs them? Let me add a little color. Verizon, er Samsung has secured the bootloader and kernel, meaning you can't replace it. A lot of innovation comes from replacing the kernel because that is the piece that Samsung releases the source for, and for modding it for different ROMs.
Getting root is a start to a custom ROM, not a full solution.
Also there are portions of the bootloader process (radios, etc) that can't be modded at all, so it's not an all or nothing game.
This also makes it MUCH more difficult to install a ROM manager (like CWM)
Rooting allows a different ROM to go on there, but if you can't modify the kernel that restricts what ROM types can be added.
Just sayin. Most people don't know the difference.
There is also carrier locking (MSL) , which is another piece of irritation all together. Just try and get a droid to easily work on an MVNO like PPC.
In any case since the phone is LTE-Verizon, it's useless for any other carrier anyways so who cares... | |
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 thegeekPremium
join:2008-02-21
right here
kudos:2
·Suddenlink
| Won't Last Long Root and custom recovery are already done. Devs will have the bootloader cracked in no time. And Samsung released the kernel source today so that should help the development of this device.
My preorder should be delivered tomorrow. Can't wait to start tinkering. | |
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| | | Re: Won't Last Long said by thegeek:Root and custom recovery are already done. Devs will have the bootloader cracked in no time. And Samsung released the kernel source today so that should help the development of this device.
My preorder should be delivered tomorrow. Can't wait to start tinkering.
The Bionic has been rooted for ages, but as of yet they've been unable to crack the bootloader due to encryption. I wouldn't be so confident they'll be any more successful with the SGS3, unless Verizon uses a different method to lock the bootloaders on Motorola and Samsung phones. | |
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| | HallPremium,MVM
join:2000-04-28
Dayton, OH
kudos:2 | Re: Won't Last Long said by AnonFTW : I wouldn't be so confident they'll be any more successful with the SGS3, unless Verizon uses a different method to lock the bootloaders on Motorola and Samsung phones.
Motorola definitely uses a much different method. I think that ALL Android phones that VZW offers have locked bootloaders but many are exploited (I won't say easily). Many, many of them were all vulnerable to the same Zerg exploit so effectively one method cracked them all (on more than just VZW too). | |
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| | | | | Re: Won't Last Long said by Hall:said by AnonFTW : I wouldn't be so confident they'll be any more successful with the SGS3, unless Verizon uses a different method to lock the bootloaders on Motorola and Samsung phones.
Motorola definitely uses a much different method. I think that ALL Android phones that VZW offers have locked bootloaders but many are exploited (I won't say easily). Many, many of them were all vulnerable to the same Zerg exploit so effectively one method cracked them all (on more than just VZW too). So in this case, is the manufacturer locking on behalf (at the request of) of Verizon, or Verizon themselves? | |
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| | | | HallPremium,MVM
join:2000-04-28
Dayton, OH
kudos:2 | Re: Won't Last Long said by AnonFTW : So in this case, is the manufacturer locking on behalf (at the request of) of Verizon, or Verizon themselves? Verizon is no doubt requiring this of the manufacturers of their phones. Nothing against VZW, but they aren't in the low-level hardware/software business of mobile phones. | |
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| | | | | The Droid (original) was not locked. I had one and loved that phone | |
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| | | | HallPremium,MVM
join:2000-04-28
Dayton, OH
kudos:2 | Re: Won't Last Long said by CableConvert:The Droid (original) was not locked. I had one and loved that phone I guess I should have made it clearer that "currently" Motorola uses a much different method.
As for your OG Droid, are you sure it was already unlocked or was it easily un-lockable ? | |
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| | | | thegeekPremium
join:2008-02-21
right here
kudos:2 | I believe the OG Droid was locked as well. It was just extremely easy to unlock. | |
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| | | | | | | Re: Won't Last Long I think the bootloader was always unlocked on the OG Droid. All I did was root mine and I was able to change kernels, which I believe is tied to bootloader status. | |
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| | | | | | thegeekPremium
join:2008-02-21
right here
kudos:2 | Re: Won't Last Long The root process involved unlocking the bootloader. The difference was it was unsigned and not encrypted. That means it's a simple flip of the switch. | |
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| | | | | | | | | Re: Won't Last Long Rooting wouldn't do anything to the bootloader. The Milestone bootloader was locked, but recently I couldn't root a Droid so I instead flashed a custom ROM that was already rooted without any other modification. | |
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| | | | | | | | thegeekPremium
join:2008-02-21
right here
kudos:2 Reviews:
·Suddenlink
| Re: Won't Last Long Yes, you are correct that rooting does nothing to the bootloader. But that is not what I said. The process for obtaining root on the OG Droid involved a step that unlocked the bootloader in most cases. Since the bootloader on the OG Droid was unsigned and not encrypted, it was a simple on/off switch.
I have no idea about the process for the Milestone though. Although identical, it is a different device. | |
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: Won't Last Long I flashed a custom unsigned ROM before I rooted my Droid in one instance without rooting. The bootloader was never locked on the Droid, and this is confirmed by XDA Developers. | |
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| | | | | | | | | HallPremium,MVM
join:2000-04-28
Dayton, OH
kudos:2 | Re: Won't Last Long said by NeoandGeo:...and this is confirmed by XDA Developers. One random person is hardly "confirmation", but nonetheless, as I've found out, it is still correct: The original Motorola Droid had an unlocked bootloader. | |
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: Won't Last Long Lol, I knew someone would notice that.
All I needed was one other confirmation from anyone to bring me up from 99.9% sure it was unlocked straight out. For some reason I couldn't root my grandmothers OG Droid on the latest firmware so I simply loaded a random rooted ROM to get access to avoid a lengthy root process. | |
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| | | | said by AnonFTW :The Bionic has been rooted for ages, but as of yet they've been unable to crack the bootloader due to encryption. I wouldn't be so confident they'll be any more successful with the SGS3, unless Verizon uses a different method to lock the bootloaders on Motorola and Samsung phones.
Motorola themselves have a no unlocked bootloader policy, so it's encrypted with no hope for unlocking. Samsung devices are commonly unlocked by Samsung themselves, so there is much more hope to unlocking the bootloader. | |
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| | for the customer I have all the confidence in the world that big red is only doing what it's customers have asked for. Except me of course | |
|
| Reviews:
·Comcast
| Re: for the customer said by polarbear :I have all the confidence in the world that big red is only doing what it's customers have asked for. Except me of course
I hope that statement is dripping with sarcasm... ??
The only people that know what a bootloader is, are the one's that don't want them locked...
I have a pseudo GalaxyNexus on VZW with an unlimited data plan. When vzw takes that away, I'm gone (hopefully LTE will be built out everywhere). I hate Verizon as much as Comcast/Xfinity. Both are money grubbing corporate pirates with their foot on the neck of the consumer.  | |
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| | | | Re: for the customer I 'd like to know where you are going? What nationwide provider doesn't use the foot the same way? I've been on all 4 of them, each had their own plusses (few) and minuses (plenty), and all 4 are butt-holes. To me it comes down to choosing your poison. | |
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| | Those Developers Rock! I just spent 30 mins of amazement reading through those threads at XDA. It just blows my mind how stupid these carriers are. Here they have talent that could make these devices SO much better (not to mention for FREE), and what do they do? Lock them down. Verizon needs to get a clue...a BIG clue. People dont want the bloatware, and it just makes the phone less valuable to the consumer...but consumers dont matter any more I guess when you run a duopoly business with AT&T | |
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 gdmPremium,MVM
join:2001-06-15
Mchenry, IL
kudos:3
·AT&T U-Verse
| Not Verizon Verizon has come out on their twitter page and stated it wasn't them but Samsung. Which any of us would find hard to believe.
Looks like it'll be a point the finger for right now.
Honestly as Hall  stated this doesn't affect most people. | |
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|  TomekPremium
join:2002-01-30
Valley Stream, NY | Re: Not Verizon I complained once to FCC about my Droid being locked and got letter saying that it was Motorola's decision.
--
Semper Fi | |
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| | gdmPremium,MVM
join:2001-06-15
Mchenry, IL
kudos:3 | Re: Not Verizon The manufacture has to be the one to do it. Why would the Verizon SIII be the only one locked that's what makes no sense and points to Verizon instead of Samsung. | |
|
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·Verizon FiOS
·voip.ms
| Unlocking has consequences Unlocking the bootloader has a number of consequences (and probably more):
1. By the manufacturer locking the bootloader during the warranty period, they are protecting their TOS and limiting the variability in support. If someone for instance wiped the bootblock and the device went into never never land, that would cause a opex cost they are trying to avoid.
2. Since the carrier is selling you a subsidized device, aka lease they are able to attach provisions to it (contract, TOS) which you are freely able to accept or reject. They are simply protecting their interests.
3. By cracking, you can place software in place to bypass certain protections that Verizon deem necessary or software (tethering for example) to protect their business model.
4. You can legally crack it, but that may void your warranty or TOS, and hence there may be financial consequences to it.
In any case, I have rooted EVERY droid I have owned (4), and the experience after was light years ahead of the stock ROM, and was actually updated unlike most of Verizon's ultra poor patch management. This is a huge differentiator of Apple vs Droid, who owns the patch tree, and it shows. The same Droid on different networks could be light years better, the iphone is just good.
But I was also assuming the risk that if anything went wrong that I would have the capability to go back to stock (which I did more than once) before doing a device swap.
After you are out of contract and the warranty expired I see no reason why they shouldn't give it to you, except VZW has in it's TOS network use provisions that may prevent it.
Also, most droids are useless because for all the hoopla over LTE, many of the radios are still incompatible and they like it that way. | |
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| | . Verizon took to their twitter (@VZWSupport) and say that Samsung required them to lock the bootloader. Who allows blatant lies to go out to the world in such an efficient manor?  | |
|
| Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·Verizon FiOS
·voip.ms
| Re: . We have no idea of what the contractual relationship Sumsung/Verizon has wrt to firmware and revenue protection, but I know that the carriers are the ones carrying the clubs with Droids/MSFT, wheras Apple is carrying it everywhere else. The benefits of proprietary are immense.
I cannot believe for a nanosecond that if Verizon, papa Red said take it off, it would be off because simply they have the superior position and people are just not that stupid to believe them anymore. Explain how the rest of the world on unsubsidized phones get along...
But what I am sure of, if the US mandated interop (like they should for my public airwaves) we wouldn't be having this discussion. | |
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| |  mech1164I'll Be Back
join:2001-11-19
Lodi, NJ | Re: . said by elefante72:We have no idea of what the contractual relationship Sumsung/Verizon has wrt to firmware and revenue protection, but I know that the carriers are the ones carrying the clubs with Droids/MSFT, wheras Apple is carrying it everywhere else. The benefits of proprietary are immense.
I cannot believe for a nanosecond that if Verizon, papa Red said take it off, it would be off because simply they have the superior position and people are just not that stupid to believe them anymore. Explain how the rest of the world on unsubsidized phones get along...
But what I am sure of, if the US mandated interop (like they should for my public airwaves) we wouldn't be having this discussion.
So true but remember this is the best bought and sold congress money can buy.  | |
|
 BF69Premium
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN | Honestly who cares? Seems like the same people that got mad when Sony took Linux support form the PS3. Most NORMAL people don't know what a bootlaoder is or does and would never mess with it anyway. | |
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 Lone WolfIndependent Voter, Buy Gold and GunsPremium
join:2001-12-30
USA
kudos:1
·Verizon Online DSL
·Comcast
| Does Anybody Ever Look At What They're Buying? I just went to the verizon site and entered all of the info to purchase the 16gb Siii with 2gb data and unlimited talk/text.
It came to $200 for the phone and $120 monthly for the service.
Now comes the fun!
120 month x 24 months = $2880 add $200 for the phone and you have spent $3080 plus taxes and other fees for 2 years for cell phone and service.
I can buy the phone outright anywhere for around $600 without a service plan. Personally I would only buy a GSM phone (worldwide) rather than the CDMA model (US only). Then I would buy an unlimited everything service plan from an MVNO for between $40 to $60 monthly.
$50 month x 24 months = $1200 plus $600 for the phone and I will have spent $1800 (no taxes or anything else added) for 2 years for cell phone and service.
A no brainer! Unless you like to throw away your money.
--
»www.teamovercome.net/
»www.galaxynexusforum.com/ | |
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See 9 replies to this post |
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BiggA
join:2005-11-23
EARTH Reviews:
·Comcast
| Suck, BUT They have THE network (debatable, but they advertise it a lot), the most LTE in the nation, and 95% of people don't know or care about unlocked bootloaders anyways.
Plus, with Share Everything, they offer tethering for free, which was the main reason to put a third party ROM on anyways. And the other big reason, smoothness of the UX is already taken care of by Sammy. | |
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|  AVDRespice, Adspice, ProspicePremium
join:2003-02-06
Onion, NJ
kudos:1 | Re: Suck, BUT said by BiggA:And the other big reason, smoothness of the UX is already taken care of by Sammy.
So you have a very expensive feature phone that runs some android apps.
--
--Standard disclaimers apply.--
The preceding posting is null and void in Arizona and any other jurisdiction where prohibited by law. | |
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| | BiggA
join:2005-11-23
EARTH | Re: Suck, BUT Huh? That makes no sense. How does a third party ROM help make it any more of a smartphone? | |
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veloslaveGeek For GodPremium
join:2003-07-11
Pleasant Hill, CA | looks like Verizon has the last word for the whiners »www.engadget.com/2012/07/10/sams···verizon/
and don't try "they did this to make up for the bad pr"... this would have to have been planned long ago.
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Mom was right.... I NEED fiber! | |
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