 | | Not a problem Just pass the buck onto the masses | |
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| | | | Re: Not a problem No way , all fees , will go up not just dvr fees. | |
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 MoracCat god
join:2001-08-30
Riverside, NJ
kudos:1
 ·Comcast
| There's more to it than just cash Besides the $250 million, there's a few other provisions in the settlement:
1. Verizon and TiVo are exploring, among other things, future distribution of Internet video services developed through Verizon's joint venture with Redbox by making content distributed via that service part of the diverse selection of linear and broadband-delivered content accessible to users of TiVo's retail DVR products. (I.E. Redbox streaming on TiVo.)
2. Verizon can offer TiVo boxes to its customers
3. While not certain, it's possible that Verizon VOD will be coming to TiVo devices.
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|  r81984Fair and BalancedPremium
join:2001-11-14
Katy, TX | Re: There's more to it than just cash This is a joke. Tivo did not invent the DVR.
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| | MoracCat god
join:2001-08-30
Riverside, NJ
kudos:1 Reviews:
·Comcast
| Re: There's more to it than just cash Enough with the broken record. Every time TiVo has a patent win, the complainers come out.
Here's an idea. Read through all of TiVo's 142 patents (the whole patent, not just the title) and come back and say that. You can start with this one filed back in 1998. Back when you could apparently buy DVRs in the store according to you. 
Note, Verizon is a big company. They wouldn't just roll over if there was no validity to TiVo's patents.
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Reviews:
 ·ooma
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 ·Verizon FiOS
| move on.. cut the (VIDEO) cord the way Verizon sells video is a carbon copy of the cable industry... and that is one of the many reasons why they are losing customers
so many customers are cutting the cord that these stupid disputes over content and the way it's distributed will be trivial by comparison to the money lost by lack of innovation and price hikes. | |
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| crgauth
join:2004-05-18
Glen Burnie, MD | Re: move on.. cut the (VIDEO) cord said by tmc8080:the way Verizon sells video is a carbon copy of the cable industry... and that is one of the many reasons why they are losing customers
so many customers are cutting the cord that these stupid disputes over content and the way it's distributed will be trivial by comparison to the money lost by lack of innovation and price hikes.
But if everyone cuts the cord and looks for free content (even legally), who will be left to pay for the content?
I agree that a la carte cable would be best (or some substitute) people have to realize that they will have to pay to get premium content. | |
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| | | "Losing customers" means they have NET LOSSES every quarter. When that happens, come back and try again. | |
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 jjoshuaPremium
join:2001-06-01
Scotch Plains, NJ
kudos:3 | Rates going up Someone has to pay for verizon's fuckup. | |
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| | 2012 Interesting they pick December 21st, 2012 as the date. Seem like that date keeps coming up a lot lately. Maybe the Mayan's were on to something.  | |
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 bohratomJersey Shore will rise again
join:2011-07-07
Red Bank NJ | Glad I don't use a Verizon DVR "Verizon must pay TiVo unspecified monthly license fees through July 2018 for each Verizon DVR subscriber" is gonna mean DVR owners paying more monthly fees no doubt. Glad I bit the bullet a year ago and picked up a TIVO. | |
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|  aaronwtPremium
join:2004-11-07
Woodbridge, VA
·Verizon FiOS
| Re: Glad I don't use a Verizon DVR said by bohratom:"Verizon must pay TiVo unspecified monthly license fees through July 2018 for each Verizon DVR subscriber" is gonna mean DVR owners paying more monthly fees no doubt. Glad I bit the bullet a year ago and picked up a TIVO.
Of course now the cable card fees will go up to $5. Hopefully TiVo will come out with a six tuner box next year then I can sell my two Elites and switch my other Premiere to OTA and and I will be down to one cable card rental. Back in 2008 I had eight cable cards so getting down to one cable card would be a big milestone for me. | |
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| | bohratomJersey Shore will rise again
join:2011-07-07
Red Bank NJ | Re: Glad I don't use a Verizon DVR said by aaronwt: Back in 2008 I had eight cable cards so getting down to one cable card would be a big milestone for me.
I take it you come from a catholic family? | |
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| MoracCat god
join:2001-08-30
Riverside, NJ
kudos:1 Reviews:
·Comcast
| Re: Tivo and Apple said by r81984:Both have pointy ears, green skin, and spiked hair.
Neither have invented anything, but seem to be winning these BS lawsuits. The patent workers and judges in the country are insane and have no idea about technology or prior art.
Patent Troll - is a pejorative term used for a person or company who enforces patents against one or more alleged infringers in a manner considered aggressive or opportunistic with no intention to manufacture or market the patented invention.
»www3.tivo.com/store/home.do
»store.apple.com/us
Q.E.D.
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| | | MoracCat god
join:2001-08-30
Riverside, NJ
kudos:1 Reviews:
·Comcast
| Re: Tivo and Apple said by r81984:There were DVRs before tivo.
You could even make one with your computer in. the early 90s, it was just expensive to do.
And that's the point you are missing. TiVo invented a way to cheaply make a DVR. That's what the whole time-warp patent is about. Patents are all about processes, not ideas (ideas can't be patented). Patents can build off other patents as long as your process is colorfully different from what came before. TiVo's patent has already been found to be colorfully different by three different juries.
Again if you read the main TiVo patent, you'll see they reference other patents, none of which are for a DVR, and build upon that. You'll also notice that tons of other patents reference TiVo's patent (including ones from Verizon).
Take this example. Say someone figured out a way to make a flying car for $1000. He patents that process. Now major corporations, the old way (costs hundreds of thousands of dollars) , suddenly all switch to using this guy's process without licensing the patent. He sues them and wins. Yes he didn't "invent" the flying car, but he invented a way to make a flying car for dirt cheap. That's what patents are for.
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| | | | r81984Fair and BalancedPremium
join:2001-11-14
Katy, TX Reviews:
 ·row44
·AT&T U-Verse
 ·AT&T DSL Service
3 edits | Re: Tivo and Apple said by Morac:And that's the point you are missing. TiVo invented a way to cheaply make a DVR. No they did not. Tivo was a computer with a harddrive running software.
Replay TV which came out before Tivo was cheaper.
Also making something cheaper does not let you patent someone elses idea.
Tivo DID NOT invent hardware. They use other peoples hardware and just wrote software.
said by Morac:That's what the whole time-warp patent is about. Patents are all about processes, not ideas (ideas can't be patented). Patents can build off other patents as long as your process is colorfully different from what came before. TiVo's patent has already been found to be colorfully different by three different juries.
Jurors who know nothing about technology.
Jurors who have no idea how to program software.
Jurors who were not on the internet in the 90s.
Jurors who did not use the technology that was readily available well before Tivo.
said by Morac:Again if you read the main TiVo patent, you'll see they reference other patents, none of which are for a DVR, and build upon that. You'll also notice that tons of other patents reference TiVo's patent (including ones from Verizon).
LOL that patent was from 1998 and I was doing that in 1996 with a video capture card.
ATI came out with their all-in-wonder TV tuner cards in 1996 where you could tune and record with your computer. (retail price of $350).
"Another intriguing feature is the card's ability to scan through channels and display a small window showing what's on. This gives you a "Hollywood Squares" picture of what's being televised at the moment. Just click the still picture of the show that looks the most interesting, and the card tunes into that channel.
The All-in-Wonder also has the ability to record video from TV onto the computer hard drive, although the amount of hard drive space required for storing long video clips could be prohibitive." ATI did these things before Tivo.
Compaq had a TV pc in 1997. »www.smarttvmag.com/article/3136/
"In the growing convergence of the personal computer with the television"in 1996/97 there was a movement for connecting your computer to the TV and using TV tuners in your computer.
"The Web-based Electronic TV Host is another option that was available. ETV is a subscription listing that allows powerful database-style queries on a wide range of permutations (actor, genre, time, rating), and the ability to sort and store selections." - Yep this even existed before Tivo.
Here is the Tivo patent- "The invention allows the user to store selected television broadcast programs while the user is simultaneously watching or reviewing another program"
Also VCRs were already doing that in the main stream. Everyone used them to record a show they wanted to watch while they watched a different show on another channel.
Funny.
said by Morac:Take this example. Say someone figured out a way to make a flying car for $1000. He patents that process. Now major corporations, the old way (costs hundreds of thousands of dollars) , suddenly all switch to using this guy's process without licensing the patent. He sues them and wins. Yes he didn't "invent" the flying car, but he invented a way to make a flying car for dirt cheap. That's what patents are for.
I am sorry, but the hardware already 100% exsisted as prior art. The act of doing or idea of what they did already 100% existed as prior art. Commercially available software to tune and record TV shows already 100% existed as prior art.
The only thing Tivo did was write their own unique software program for an idea that already existed using hardware that already existed. They then patented the already existing idea in 1998 which was BS.
Replay TV also wrote their own DVR software in 1997.
Anyone that writes their own software to do the idea of a DVR is not copying anything from Tivo.
That is why Tivo's patent is bullshit.
The problem is the patent office patented something they knew nothing about. Maybe to the patent official reviewing the patent that was some crazy new idea, but not to the real world.
Tivo invented nothing.
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| | | | | MoracCat god
join:2001-08-30
Riverside, NJ
kudos:1 Reviews:
·Comcast
| Re: Tivo and Apple said by r81984:LOL that patent was from 1998 and I was doing that in 1996 with a video capture card.
ATI came out with their all-in-wonder TV tuner cards in 1996 where you could tune and record with your computer. (retail price of $350).
I had an AIW too and it ran like crap on my low end PC. It dropped a lot of frames while recording. And $350 doesn't include the cost a PC. TiVo's first DVR ran with a CPU that ran at 40Mhz. Show me any DVR that could (or can) run on anything that slow. They couldn't because TiVo had special hardware in it.
You can keep whining that TiVo didn't invent anything over and over again, but that doesn't make it true. I can only assume you are an ex-ReplayTV employee or something since you also say ReplayTV came out first (it didn't). As such I'm simply going to ignore you from now on.
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| | MoracCat god
join:2001-08-30
Riverside, NJ
kudos:1 Reviews:
·Comcast
| I agree the patent process should probably be reformed, but you need to be careful when messing with it. It takes a while to go from the patent to production phase, especially for patents held by individuals as opposed to corporations.
If it takes 2 years for an individual to gather enough capital and build up a business to get it running at full speed and patents last 3 years, no one in their right mind would invest in that guy since they'd never recoup their investment.
Take TiVo for example. They filed their time warp patent in July of 1998. They didn't sell their first TiVo until March of 1999. After all this time, they just started to turn a profit a few years ago (mainly thanks to the Dish lawsuit).
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