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Verizon Promises Droid Won't Strain Network
Though they're preparing for more backhaul for LTE launch...
Unlike some of the capacity issues that troubled AT&T with the huge influx of iPhone customers, Verizon is insisting the company won't struggle under the load when they launch the new Motorola Droid this Friday. That's easy to say, given Droid's sales likely won't dent iPhone volume -- but Verizon has an interesting conversation with Telephony Online on getting ready for the influx of additional data users. According to Verizon, they didn't add backhaul capacity for Friday's Droid launch -- because they didn't need to. At least not yet:
quote:
In most markets, Verizon Wireless has EV-DO running on three sectors per cell site and in many congested areas, it has deployed multiple EV-DO carriers. CDMA downlink channels are only 1.25 MHz wide, compared to the 5 MHz used by AT&T’s HSPA network, but they support similar maximum capacities (3.1 Mb/s for Rev. A compared to 3.6 Mb/s for HSPA). AT&T’s 3G evolution path will widen that gap over the next two as it upgrades its base stations to 7.2 Mb/s HSPA, but for now VZW has an efficiency advantage, allowing it support much more capacity over the same spectrum.
In a different report, Verizon says they'll certainly be adding new fiber backhaul in a number of markets when they launch faster LTE service in 25-30 new markets next year. Verizon says they'll be deploying fiber Ethernet to 90% of the cell sites in its territory by the end of 2013. Pound for pound, Verizon's wireless investment CAPEX has been more robust than AT&T's for some time -- and the proof should be in the pudding.
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beaups
join:2003-08-11
Hilliard, OH

beaups

Member

Is Verizon supporting simultaneous voice/data yet?

Seems especially with the car kit and data based navigation this would be an important feature?

Dread
On course
Premium Member
join:2005-02-28
Bronx, NY

Dread

Premium Member

Re: Is Verizon supporting simultaneous voice/data yet?

said by beaups:

Seems especially with the car kit and data based navigation this would be an important feature?
Nope, verizon is behind the tech still.
iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX

iansltx

Member

Re: Is Verizon supporting simultaneous voice/data yet?

That functionality is only available on WCDMA. Not so much behind as they didn't support EV-DV for whatever reason.

NOCMan
MadMacHatter
Premium Member
join:2004-09-30
Colorado Springs, CO

NOCMan to beaups

Premium Member

to beaups
This will appear with LTE where voice will be basically a VOIP data stream along with the data. EvDO version in use does not support voice/data.

As for navigation, it picks up where it left off just fine after a call, just not convenient when you're making a bunch of turns.

Either way dont talk and drive.

hayabusa3303
Over 200 mph
Premium Member
join:2005-06-29
Florence, SC

hayabusa3303

Premium Member

intresting.

This goes to show you that vz is better than att when it comes to back haul and who spends there money on the network and not washington.

ptrowski
Got Helix?
Premium Member
join:2005-03-14
Woodstock, CT

ptrowski

Premium Member

Re: intresting.

said by hayabusa3303:

This goes to show you that vz is better than att when it comes to back haul and who spends there money on the network and not washington.
It's hard to tell though. Will they sell as many Droids as the iPhone. Not even close. But if they do sell enough then it could cause some potential issues.

Also if you think that Verizon doesn't spend boatload of cash in Washington I have a bridge to sell you.

tiger72
SexaT duorP
Premium Member
join:2001-03-28
Saint Louis, MO

tiger72 to hayabusa3303

Premium Member

to hayabusa3303
said by hayabusa3303:

This goes to show you that vz is better than att when it comes to back haul and who spends there money on the network and not washington.
Not exactly. If the technologies were the same, that would be a safe conclusion, however thanks to higher costs in running what are effectively 2 networks (2gsm +3g umts), it simply indicates that Verizon was just able to spend its capex on backhauls, while ATT had to spend it on towers and radios.
NeoandGeo
join:2003-05-10
Harrison, TN

NeoandGeo

Member

3.1 mbps?

Are there only certain 3g areas that can get that speed, or only certain devices? I can only seem to pull a maximum of 1.6 mbps will full service.

tiger72
SexaT duorP
Premium Member
join:2001-03-28
Saint Louis, MO

tiger72

Premium Member

Re: 3.1 mbps?

the rated speeds (3.1mbps for EVDO, 3.6/7.2/14.4/21/42mbps for HSPA and HSPA+) are ALL maximum theoretical very near the tower. Real world speeds are typically half to 1/4 of the rated speeds.
patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY

patcat88

Member

Re: 3.1 mbps?

said by tiger72:

the rated speeds (3.1mbps for EVDO, 3.6/7.2/14.4/21/42mbps for HSPA and HSPA+) are ALL maximum theoretical very near the tower. Real world speeds are typically half to 1/4 of the rated speeds.
Plus hardware makers and standards bodies love to say the PHY speed, not the speed exposed to IP or application layer. More users you have per tower, more protocol overhead robbing actual speed.
NeoandGeo
join:2003-05-10
Harrison, TN

NeoandGeo to tiger72

Member

to tiger72
Sure would be nice to have a 1/4 or even a 1/10 chunk of that 21mbps, haha.
iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX

iansltx

Member

Re: 3.1 mbps?

Too bad T-Mobile is the only carrier deploying it in the US.

Gbcue
Premium Member
join:2001-09-30
Santa Rosa, CA

Gbcue

Premium Member

Re: 3.1 mbps?

said by iansltx:

Too bad T-Mobile is the only carrier deploying it in the US.
Why is it "too bad"?
iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX

iansltx

Member

Re: 3.1 mbps?

T-Mobile doesn't have 3G back home, and they barely do here.

Additionally, as long as AT&T keeps their network where it is right now, we'll continue to have whiny iPhone users whining about a legitimately poor network.

en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA

en102

Member

Re: 3.1 mbps?

HSPA+ won't help iPhone users any.
iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX

iansltx

Member

Re: 3.1 mbps?

Hunh, I thought I heard something about the iPhone being fully compatible with Telstra's NextG network (21 Mbps HSPA+) down under. Maybe I was wrong.
Ah well, Apple can always introduce the iPhone 3Gse.

powerspec88
Premium Member
join:2007-03-11
Lees Summit, MO

powerspec88 to NeoandGeo

Premium Member

to NeoandGeo
said by NeoandGeo:

Are there only certain 3g areas that can get that speed, or only certain devices? I can only seem to pull a maximum of 1.6 mbps will full service.
That could because of 2 things. One is tower load. 2nd is most EV-DO towers only have 1-2 T-1 lines. So if your only getting 1.6Mbps, then your tower most likely has 2 T-1 lines and there are other users on it. During the day, my avg speed is ~1.5Mbps and at night is ~2.5Mbps as there is less users on my tower.
iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX

iansltx to NeoandGeo

Member

to NeoandGeo
There are reports of about 2.5 Mbps down and 800 kbps up on EvDO service. I've seen 2 Mbps down and 600 kbps up on Sprint...
antidelldude
join:2003-12-22
Beverly Hills, CA

antidelldude

Member

Yay Fiber

I think Verizon saying 90% of their sites will be covered by a fiber back haul by 2013 is a ballsy move. I know they will get it done, but i'm not going to hold my breath for 2013. Fiber is the future dammit, and all the other companies need to stop dancing around the subject and start investing to get rid of copper and start laying fiber.
ame101
join:2002-05-02
Torrington, CT

ame101

Member

Re: Yay Fiber

I do contract work for Verizon, in New England, they are spending money hand over fist. Cell site upgrades to fiber from T1 or in some cases was less then that. Are going fast here. The issues we have seen is getting the damn fiber to the tower, a lot are not in the best locations. We just ripped out a conection to a site that was half run on a 50 pair tel co line. Old school stuff. It had "modems". Jim
iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX

iansltx to antidelldude

Member

to antidelldude
Yep. It's expensive to bring it to the tower, but once it's there you're good to go for as much bandwidth as you want to pump down the pipe, as long as you own a port at both ends and a dark strand in between.
beachside
join:2009-06-28

beachside to antidelldude

Member

to antidelldude
Telus in Canada recently let it slip that they already have fibre to 85% of their sites. Given the amount that Verizon invests in their network I think 90% by 2013 is very very achievable.

en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA

en102

Member

3.6Mbps... true but...

quote:
AT&T’s 3G evolution path will widen that gap over the next two as it upgrades its base stations to 7.2 Mb/s HSPA, but for now VZW has an efficiency advantage, allowing it support much more capacity over the same spectrum
That 3.6Mbps in 5MHz supports more 3.6Mbps connections in the 5MHz than the 3.1Mbps does in 1.25MHz, and also has voice supported.
I.e. sort of like saying a 21Mbps connection or 6 3.6Mbps connections.
iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX

iansltx

Member

Re: 3.6Mbps... true but...

Wait, what?

Spectral efficiency-wise, HSPA 3.6 takes 5 MHz to do 3.6 Mbps of capacity. Versus EvDO which takes 1.25 MHz to do 3.1 Mbps. Four EvDO carriers will get you 12.4 Mbps in 5 MHz. Or you can do two EvDO carriers and two 1xRTT voice carriers if you need more voice capacity.

Granted, HSPA 7.2 has more downstream capacity per carrier than EvDO, however it's still not as efficient with the spectrum. You need HSPA 14.4 or HSPA+ 21M for that.

Of course, by the time AT&T deploys HSPA+ 21 Mbps Verizon will have LTE and Sprint will have WiMAX.

en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA

en102

Member

Re: 3.6Mbps... true but...

I doubt that AT&T will deploy HSPA+ outside of metros if at all. Their deployment is already posted for LTE on GSMA. I see most carriers on there, but I don't see Sprint for some reason. I guess they'll be WiMAX until the end.

»www.3gamericas.org/docum ··· 9%20.pdf
»www.3gamericas.org/docum ··· 0-07.pdf

DaveDude
No Fear
join:1999-09-01
New Jersey

DaveDude

Member

Wont all the 700mhz lte be att compatible

If the android is 700 LTE, wouldnt it work on ATT as well ? Plus is it exclusive ?
iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX

iansltx

Member

Re: Wont all the 700mhz lte be att compatible

The Droid isn't LTE. It's CDMA. Though the Motorola Legacy ( = droid overseas) is GSM/WCDMA.

joako
Premium Member
join:2000-09-07
/dev/null

joako

Premium Member

More robust network technology

AT&T is deploying more robust "real" 3G whereas what Verizon/Sprint are deploying is just old technology with faster speeds.

I can talk on my AT&T phone while my computer is tethered to it and continues to download. Try that on an EVDO network... it isn't possible.

Sure Verizon has "more 3G" than AT&T but their 3G was just a software update for faster speeds over the same old IS-2000 network.

As to why Verizon's network won't be strained, they answered that years ago and we all know why it won't be strained.
iansltx
join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX

1 recommendation

iansltx

Member

Re: More robust network technology

Whoa, look! You can drop calls WHILE having a crappy internet experience!!!1!

Seriously, though simultaneous voice and data are handy, EvDO Rev. A is actually the more robust technology right now as far as 3G data networks go, capacity-wise. That will change when HSPA+ gets rolled out, and on a good day an HSPA 3.6 network will provide 2 Mbps down and 1 Mbps up vs. 2 Mbps down and 600 kbps up on CDMA, however neither situation is what's happening right now.

Granted, AT&T is rolling out HSPA 7.2 now, but by the time they get that deployed the company's competitors will be on to something better.

Everyone knows that HSPA+ 21 Mbps is a better tech than EvDO Rev. A. That's why Bell and Telus are finally switching over to HSPA+ networks in Canada. However that's like saying that 56k dialup is better than 33.6k; 56k came out a few years after 33.6 did!

Droid Lover
@charter.com

Droid Lover to joako

Anon

to joako
The hidden reason that Verizon's network will not be strained by the Droid is that it has be crippled by Verizon/Google. Google redirects all web requests to feed through their servers and they serve up a low bandwidth version of web sites. You can test this with Flash Video. If Google doesn't have a low bandwidth version cached to serve the Droid of a web site using flash you get nothing, nada. It is sort of like the WAP concept on steroids. WAP has been used for years for dinky mobile phones.

Then the iPhone comes along with the real web, except Apple makes it clear it will not do network killing Adobe Flash. No need for WAP any more and people flock to the web using a mobile device. Sheer numbers clog the available resources of the AT&T wireless network.

Now Verizon is promising freedom if you switch networks without telling anyone it is back to the pseudo web people never really liked in the first place. Verizon and Google control the servers to make it happen in real time and many are not even the aware they have been had. Whole web pages are missing and unreachable from the Verizon network if accessed by the Droid.

That really solves the network strain problem, doesn't it?
majortom1029
join:2006-10-19
Medford, NY

majortom1029

Member

hmm

Droid wont nearly attract as many people all at once.
The problem is millions of people all hopping onto att's network at once.

I am sure if I took say 20 million people and threw them on verizons network all at once using data they would have problems too.
puck0114
join:2005-12-24
Portland, OR

puck0114

Member

Of course it won't...

... it's a blip on the screen.

vzcorrection
@74.214.97.x

vzcorrection

Anon

Verizon != Verizon Wireless

Just wanted to let you guys know, that Verizon is a different company than Verizon Wireless. Verizon wireless is a joint venture by both vodaphone and Verizon, and is therefor completely separate. Therefor, it is not Verizon Wireless begging for money from congress like some of you think (and net neutrality), that is Verizon Telco. I wish this forum would differentiate the two, this article is about Verizon Wireless and NOT verizon. There is a different logo also that should be shown.
pimpinparker
join:2005-06-14
North Baltimore, OH

pimpinparker

Member

Exicted, I believe Verizon

It should be okay where I live, I doubt the network here will be congested because it's always fast right now and I have a feeling it still will be after the Droid is released. I will be getting it though.

FastiBook
join:2003-01-08
Newtown, PA

FastiBook

Member

No.....

Droid won't be a problem, because not enough of them will be sold to have any real impact. Not bashing or anything, i'm being really serious. A lot of people i've talked to outside my normal circle are waiting for their contract to be up to grab an iPhone. With iPhone 3G at 49.99 refurb, many phones still have a large number of things to impress people with enough to make a 50 dollar iPhone look like a bad purchase.

- A

Derek_A
@nuvox.net

Derek_A

Anon

Of course it wont strain the network

It wont because not that many people are going to buy this phone. Its still not even equal to the 3Gs and the OS is balky and bug riddled and the camera blows!
Doubledee32
join:2002-06-20
Charlotte, NC

Doubledee32

Member

Somewhat skeptical!

I seriously doubt that Motorola can compete with Apple. I'd be shocked if this phone outsells the I-phone. But at the moment I'm taking a wait and see attitude. I have alot of co-workers who switched over from Verizon just to get the I-phone and I must admit it's quite an impressive unit.