Verizon Responds To FCC Inquiry On ETFs, Erroneous $1.99 Fee And the excuses are just as lame as you thought they'd be... As we've been covering, the FCC recently sent a letter to Verizon asking them to explain why they just doubled their ETF fee for smartphones from $175 to $350, and to explain why exactly they've been socking consumers with a mystery $1.99 data fee for no apparent reason. As we noted yesterday, the inquiry deadline was yesterday, but the FCC gave Verizon an extension until Monday. Given that less people pay attention to press releases on Fridays, Verizon this afternoon filed their response to the inquiry with the FCC. Of course Verizon doubled their smartphone ETF to make more money. They also did it so they'd lose less money by limiting people from getting subsidized phones from Verizon -- then turning around and selling them to interested customers on eBay. Verizon of course doesn't say this, instead telling the FCC the sudden ETF hike is part of a new "two tier" structure for ETFs that's aimed at recouping the costs of running a smartphone network. And here you were thinking that's why you paid significant monthly service costs. Verizon continues by trying to argue that more people are using smartphones, therefore the higher ETFs are needed because overall costs of supporting smartphones have "increased substantially." Like AT&T -- Verizon's wireless revenues are exploding as well, but you're apparently supposed to ignore that. In short, Verizon doubled their smartphone ETF because they can. More interesting is the phantom $1.99 fee Verizon's been hitting consumers with for doing absolutely nothing. The fee was first exposed by the Cleveland Plain Dealer last summer. It only gained the FCC's attention after David Pogue at the NY Times posted a column featuring a Verizon insider -- who claimed Verizon was aware of the glitch -- but was too in love with the millions in additional revenue it generated to do anything about it. Says big red: Usage fees for Verizon Wireless mobile Internet service, Mobile Web, apply when a customer launches the Internet browser and then navigates away from the default Mobile Web homepage to sites other than a Verizon Wireless customer care site (e.g., My Verizon, the online customer account portal). Usage fees are not charged when a customer simply launches the Internet browser and lands on the Verizon Wireless Mobile Web homepage, which is the default setting. Not according to Verizon's own users. Not only have users been complaining since last summer about being charged the fee when landing on the Verizon start page, they've complained about being charged the fee when data is blocked, the phone's battery is dead, the phone is off, or the phone doesn't even have the necessary software to go online. Verizon even gave many of these users in Ohio refunds after the practice was exposed by a local paper. But Verizon denies to the FCC that this even happens: Verizon Wireless does not charge for Mobile Web blocking notifications. If the referenced article suggested that there is a charge, it was inaccurate. In short, you've got Verizon denying a billing glitch that they've already acknowledged existed and have doled out refunds for. Worse, Verizon's claim runs in stark contrast to what one of their own employees said to the New York Times recently: "Now, you can ask to have this feature blocked. But even then, if you (hit) one of those buttons by accident, your phone transmits data; you get a message that you cannot use the service because it's blocked--BUT you just used 0.06 kilobytes of data to get that message, so you are now charged $1.99 again! "They have started training us reps that too many data blocks are being put on accounts now; they're actually making us take classes called Alternatives to Data Blocks. Perhaps the erroneous fee isn't what's supposed to happen, but it is -- unless the users who've been complaining to newspapers around the country since last summer are engaged in a mass hallucination. Verizon and Verizon Wireless both have a long extensive history with extensive billing problems and nickel and diming customers with bogus fees. Eventually you have to ask whether such errors are truly accidental. In this instance, we've got a Verizon employee quoted in a major paper saying Verizon's not fixing the problem in order to generate millions in extra revenue each month. You've got Verizon failing to acknowledge they've been doling out refunds for this problem since last summer. Whether Verizon's dodging the truth here or not, you can probably be sure they'll be shoring up this billing "glitch" now that the FCC is snooping around. If you're still seeing it on your Verizon Wireless bill please drop us a line.
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 |  |  | | Re: Bold LOSE No, but thank you for playing. | |
|  |  |  CheesePremium join:2003-10-26 Naples, FL kudos:1 | Re: Bold LOSE said by Karl Bode:No, but thank you for playing. I still can't believe people get those 2 mixed up.
Also, Verizon = FAIL | |
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 |  |  |  |  RARPSL join:1999-12-08 Suffern, NY | Re: Bold LOSE said by Mizzat:However, I tend to not have faith in an "anonymous Verizon employee". It would be very easy for an investigator for the FCC to verify this claim. They get a VZW phone, hit the browser button, power the phone off, and wait for their bill to come. If the charge is on the bill, that is prima facie evidence/proof of the claim. | |
|  |  |  |  MizzatWill post for thumbsPremium join:2003-05-03 Atlanta, GA kudos:1 Reviews:
·AT&T Southeast
| Re: Bold LOSE said by RARPSL:said by Mizzat:However, I tend to not have faith in an "anonymous Verizon employee". It would be very easy for an investigator for the FCC to verify this claim. They get a VZW phone, hit the browser button, power the phone off, and wait for their bill to come. If the charge is on the bill, that is prima facie evidence/proof of the claim. No, that is proof that it happens, not proof that the entire management of all departments of the company are aware of it. I'm not saying that it doesn't happen, I am sure it does, but believe it or not, management doesn't read BBR.  -- -M | |
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 |  SLDPremium join:2002-04-17 San Francisco, CA 1 edit | Props on making first post FAIL. | |
|  |  | | The Mob calls VZ Wireless's CEO: (Remember Ferris Bueller's Dean and his secretary)
"Verizon Wireless CEO's office."
"WTF IS THIS $1.99 CHANGE FOR DATA?"
"One moment, sir, I'll give you Mr. Dan Rooney."
"Thanks, you've been helpful."
"Mr. Dan Rooney, how can I help you?"
"WTF IS THIS $1.99 CHANGE FOR DATA?"
"Excuse me, dipsh@t?"
"Dan, that man sounds important and dangerous."
"It's just Ferris Bueller the little twerp."
"HEY, EVER WONDER WHAT IT WOULD FEEL LIKE AT THE BOTTOM OF THE OCEAN WITH THE FISHES?"
"No, but you can come over here and kiss my big white a@@."
"Dan! Ferris is on line 2."
The look
"Excuse me, I thought you were a prankster. What can I do for you sir? I'm very sorry for saying those things. It just makes me sick."
"REALLY? YOU OWN A MERCEDES? A BLACK ONE OUTSIDE YOUR OFFICE?"
"Yes, I do.......In fact, it's yours for the incovenience."
BOOM!!
"I THINK YOU CAN KEEP IT SINCE IT JUST BLEW UP!"
"YOU BLEW UP MY CAR, YOU...."
"IF YOU'D LIKE TO WAKE UP WITH CONCRETE ON YOUR FEET WITH THE FISHES, YOUS BETTER TELL ME WTF THAT $1.99 DATA CHARGE IS."
"You're name, sir?"
"Mr. Paul Cicero. You've seen me on TV. My number is 212-555-DEAD."
"You have 27 phones under this number. The Mob of New York. I'm really sorry."
"WELL, EITHER YOU ARE YOU WILL BE, JERK---!"
"This charge is just a mistake in the system. How about we just write off the rest of this year's and next year's charges. That's $60,000 of totally free service. Surf as much as you want. Call anyone. I'll be your person beyotch. Call me anytime. At home, the office, anywhere."
"You're generous man, Dan. I like yous. In fact, as soon as Jelly gets through wit lunch, we'll take your family home. By the way, tell Ferris the whole mob is pulling for him. I'd write his bill off too."
"You know Ferris?"
"Yes, he helped me out a lot after I went through a tough time. He could help you with that anger management."
"What did you do?"
"I had to kill my wife's father."
"Ouch."
"Yeah, but I had to pay them back the money or I'm dead. Whadda gonna do?"
"Absolutely, I will send Ferris some flowers." GRACE!!!!
"Oh, sorry about the car. You'll find a brand new one at your house. I gotta a little out of control. Just a little bit. It's legal too. The title's in the trunk. Don't worry, we got rid of the body."
"O---kay." GRACE!!!
"See ya Dan. Dan the man." | |
|  |  |
 RobIn Deo speramus, God Bless the USAPremium join:2001-08-25 Kendall, FL kudos:2 | Scary part.. Scary part is that our politicians actually believe this shit that comes out of the mouth of these corporations. | |
|  |  |  |  pokesphIt Is Almost FastPremium join:2001-06-25 Sacramento, CA kudos:1 | said by Rob:Scary part is that our politicians actually believe this shit that comes out of the mouth of these corporations. only when followed up by massive amounts of cash in the form of "campaign contributions". | |
|  |  cpumodemPremium join:2003-09-28 Spokane, WA | said by Rob:Scary part is that our politicians actually believe this shit that comes out of the mouth of these corporations. Politicians believe this shit because Verizon stuffs the politicans pockets with money. | |
|  |  |  | | Re: Scary part.. and drugs...and hookers... | |
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 |  cchhat01The Guru join:2001-05-01 Elmhurst, NY | And goes what, people like u and me and joe have signed away our rights to these corporations. Its just sad that the dream which was USA, had looked so good when I came here as a 12 year old as a result of my parents shifting to the states. Now being a citizen of the country, I hate how the common man has absolutely no say in anything political. We don't get heard at the congressional levels, our pleas are not heard by our president, so who the fcuk do we go to? Bin Laden? -- Chirag's Website | |
|  |  |  BF69Premium join:2004-07-28 Camden, TN | Re: Scary part.. said by cchhat01:And goes what, people like u and me and joe have signed away our rights to these corporations. Its just sad that the dream which was USA, had looked so good when I came here as a 12 year old as a result of my parents shifting to the states. Now being a citizen of the country, I hate how the common man has absolutely no say in anything political. We don't get heard at the congressional levels, our pleas are not heard by our president, so who the fcuk do we go to? Bin Laden? At the end of the day the PEOPLE vote these guys in and every 2, 4, 6 years they keep voting for these same assholes then they bitch about how corrput they are. Guess what, vote for someone else. Corps may give campaign contributions, but PEOPLE vote not corps. the thing is eveyoen think THEIR own rep or Senator is good it's EVERYONE else's guy who is corrupt. Change starts at HOME. Vote your current guy OUT. | |
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 |  dib22 join:2002-01-27 Kansas City, MO kudos:2 | said by Rob:Scary part is that our politicians actually believe this shit that comes out of the mouth of these corporations. they have to side with verizon instead of the customers... they don't want their illegal wiretaps cut off... if they cut off the illegal wiretaps how could they continue to trample our 4th amendment rights? | |
|  |  Alky join:2001-08-12 Cleveland, OH | It's not a lie if you believe it... | |
|  |  1 edit | said by Rob:Scary part is that our politicians actually believe this shit that comes out of the mouth of these corporations. How do you know they believe it? Did they tell you? I don't think so. It's a bit more complicated than their inaction leading you to your assumption. They were already suspicious in the first place, otherwise they wouldn't have sent the inquiry. -- "Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because if there be one he must approve of the homage of reason more than that of blindfolded fear." -- Thomas Jefferson
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|  |  |  RobIn Deo speramus, God Bless the USAPremium join:2001-08-25 Kendall, FL kudos:2 | Re: Scary part.. said by Nemokrad:said by Rob:Scary part is that our politicians actually believe this shit that comes out of the mouth of these corporations. How do you know they believe it? Did they tell you? I don't think so. It's a bit more complicated than their inaction leading you to your assumption. They were already suspicious in the first place, otherwise they wouldn't have sent the inquiry. The inquiry was nothing more than a people pleasure. I have no hopes or expectations of my government to actually resolve this issue. It'll get buried deep down just like the Apple/AT&T/Google Voice issue.
I pray to be proven wrong. -- CheckSite.us | YourIP.us | Reverseip.us | |
|  |  |  |  VanPremium join:2009-07-08 New Orleans, LA | Re: Scary part.. With enough public pressure, I think we can hope for SOME change but I doubt we will ever get anything significant
But, a lot of attention towards some issues can cause some change so hope for everyone to be as outraged as me and you | |
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 Mr Matt join:2008-01-29 Eustis, FL kudos:1 | Welcome to the wonderful world of Wireless Weasels!
Where does the Elephant in the room sit? Anywhere it wants to. The weasels deceive and deny. Let us see if the FCC continues to pursue the wireless weasel deceptive tripe! | |
|  ThrowDemsOutIf you can't convince 'em, confuse 'emPremium join:2002-03-03 Mullica Hill, NJ kudos:4 | Increased ETF justified; bogus $1.99 data fees not
Increasing ETF's for smartphones is entirely justified given the amount of money that Verizon subsidizes them at start of contract. BUT, to be fair the ETF should, month by month, reduce to zero by the end of the contract.
The bogus $1.99 fees for accidentally launching a browser and then going nowhere after the landing page is NOT justified. When I was with Verizon I had data blocked; IM's blocked; and I still got hit with that fee a few times a year. They always credited it to my account when I called. But the fee should never have shown up on the bill in the 1st place.
I switched to Sprint this past summer and NEVER see these kinds of problems. They might not have the best cust svc on the planet, but at least my billing is consistent(and cheaper to boot). -- My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page
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|  |  | | Re: Increased ETF justified; bogus $1.99 data fees not EFT's serve absolutely no purpose other than to lock in customers and keep the price of the phones inflated.
ANY of these phones that were sold on the open market (without subsidization) would quickly drop in price to meet customer expectations or they will fail entirely. NOT a single phone (not even the iPhone) cost $600 to bring to market. I believe more than one site has tore the iPhone apart and determined it's cost to manufacture is around $100.
Actually lets kill 2 birds with one stone. AT&T complains too many iPhones are using too much data. So lets remove them from the subsidized purchase program and make everyone from here on out pay full price for it. Then AT&T doesn't have to mess with a ETF and the consumers will see the real price of the phone as it slowly drops to about a 10% margin. | |
|  |  |  en102Canadian, eh? join:2001-01-26 Valencia, CA | Re: Increased ETF justified; bogus $1.99 data fees not ETF's are like insurance policies.
We don't want to sell $200 devices...(MFRP $500), only few customers will pay for them. We want to sell high end devices for $99, (MFRP $650).
Hint - iPhone 3G = $99, but has contract on the phone AND data, while all other devices will allow you to swap out to a cheapo phone and cancel out the data.
If we went to a standard in many other countries where the device isn't subsidized or locked, then they are quite pricey (a coworker had a HTC Touch - not pro for $500 USD in India). | |
|  |  |  |  | | Re: Increased ETF justified; bogus $1.99 data fees not said by en102:If we went to a standard in many other countries where the device isn't subsidized or locked, then they are quite pricey (a coworker had a HTC Touch - not pro for $500 USD in India). I quite like the system I have in the UK. If I want to buy the phone sim-free and unlocked, I can (and take the immediate hit in the wallet). If I want service I can go to any one of several networks and get a month-to-month contract for a low price. I can switch when I feel like it. In practice I can just stay on pay-as-you-go because it is very good value.
Or, I can pay a lot more than $99 for the phone and get it subsidised through the network. If I go to the right store I can get that phone factory unlocked and without their branding all over it. I'm not forced into a data plan (unless I actually wanted an iPhone), either. | |
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 |  |  MattAll noise, no signal.Premium join:2003-07-20 Jamestown, NC kudos:12 | If you think they are so cheap, go buy one yourself directly from oh say, Motorola. That $199 Droid? $599 directly from Motorola.
»www.store.motorola.com/mot/en/US···eDisplay
The grumbling isn't that the phones don't cost that much without subsidization, because they do. The argument is Verizon makes such a ridiculous profit margin off a 2-year contract customer, that raising the ETF is completely unnecessary. -- trafficcloak.com - pptp/sstp vpn services | |
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approval from: ThrowDemsOut 
| Re: Increased ETF justified Yes, they make a profit from 2 years worth of service... but ETF stands for "early termination fee"..... Aka canceling early. The fee ensures that they don't lose money if you break your contract.
To the person who said that the iPhone only costs $100 to make... Here an article says the the "pure manufacturing costs" are almost $180. »mytriniphone.com/blog/2009/06/co···3gs-179/
Now factor in the fact that they have to ship the phone, advertise the phone, deliver it to you etc.... then someone has to take care of your order... there has to be a staff to support you... thousands of towers which cost tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars each... billions of dollars in spectrum... you get the point.
Anyone getting a high end smartphone worth $400-$600 and only paying $100-$200 then complaining that it's ridiculous for them to actually want to be paid for the phone if you cancel early obviously doesn't understand how subsidizing works in the first place. Like someone else said, it should go down a little each month. | |
|  |  |  |  |  | | Re: Increased ETF justified we are talking about the cost of the device. not the cost of service. the cost of service would take into account the spectrum, towers, customer service, etc. -- sbcglobal.net speedtest result 11/11/09 - 5256kbps | |
|  |  |  |  |  | | said by jcremin :
Yes, they make a profit from 2 years worth of service... but ETF stands for "early termination fee"..... Aka canceling early. ... of your order... there has to be a staff to support you... thousands of towers which cost tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars each... billions of dollars in spectrum... you get the point. That makes no sense. If you cancel early, they don't have to provide you with customer support. They need less network capacity because you're not a customer. Those can be used to support another customer and they don't have to hire more CS, etc. when they get a new customer. So that is irrelevant to the ETF discussion. | |
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 |  |  |  | | Re: Increased ETF justified; bogus $1.99 data fees not Lame. You think Motorola charges us the same price as Verizon? If you do you're delusional or work for one of their retail stores. It's usually you guys who defend every customer unfriendly pricing scheme they pass our way. At the same time, they are upping your quotas and taking spiffs away yet you still field your blind devotion.
The MSRP of the phone IS NOT what the carrier pays. | |
|  |  |  |  |  MattAll noise, no signal.Premium join:2003-07-20 Jamestown, NC kudos:12 | Re: Increased ETF justified; bogus $1.99 data fees not I'm self employed and have never been associated with any cell phone company. Nor do I own any stock for that matter. Secondly, I'm not defending anyone. I think the ETF is a pure money grab, but I also am not naive enough to believe that a smartphone costs $100 or that Verizon doesn't pay close to retail for it. -- trafficcloak.com - pptp/sstp vpn services | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  | | Re: Increased ETF justified; bogus $1.99 data fees not said by Matt:money grab, but I also am not naive enough to believe that a smartphone costs $100 or that Verizon doesn't pay close to retail for it. Do you believe the car dealer when they say they're selling you the car for $100 over their cost? | |
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 |  |  |  |  bn1221 join:2009-04-29 Cortland, NY | Agreed but to be fair is I have a 5 year old phone that been on contract for 5 years...year 3-5 should be lower monthly fee than the first 2 since the phone subsidy is part of the monthly bill. | |
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 |  |  |  jsz0Premium join:2008-01-23 Jewett City, CT | The issue with ETF fee's is especially predatory. The logic doesn't work even if you base it on the MSRP. A phone being subsidized with a 2 year contract at $199 that MSRP's for $599 is a $400 "discount" Typically your contract has a minimum requirement so you will certainly be paying at least $60-$80 per month over a two year period that's $1440-$1920 to the carrier. So, based on the fraudulent MSRP number, that means about 25% of the profit they make at the low end of the spectrum covers the phone subsidy. So in this case after your first 7 months in the contract the carrier has broken even on the subsidy. Let's be generous and extend that by 5 more months. That means less than half way through your contract you're not longer being subsidized. This example is even worse when you consider this $599 phone is actually being sold to the carrier at maybe $400 or less. That means your subsidy ends up being less than 15% of the revenue the carrier makes off the 2 year contract. In the above example that means your subsidized period is over in less than 6 months yet you have 18 months left in debtors prison.
So why can't you cancel?
A) You signed a contract and that's your own fault B) You signed the contract for a subsidized phone because the carrier & handset makers collude to deny you access to a free market unsubsidized choice by working together to inflate the MSRP.
I can understand some level of contract lock-in by the carrier but they're just being greedy and misleading here. 1 year subsidized contracts would be reasonable and reflect the reality of what the carrier is actually covering up front. It's a lot more like "rent-to-own" than subsidizing. | |
|  |  |  |  |  jester121Premium join:2003-08-09 Lake Zurich, IL Reviews:
·voip.ms
| Re: Increased ETF justified; bogus $1.99 data fees not Nice math, except you conveniently left out the part where a portion of what you pay actually goes toward the cost of making phone calls. 
Congratulations on getting the knee-jerk word "predatory" in there though -- that makes the customer sound like a victim, which is always good for a specious, emotion-backed debate that's void of logic and reason. | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  jsz0Premium join:2008-01-23 Jewett City, CT | Re: Increased ETF justified; bogus $1.99 data fees not said by jester121:Nice math, except you conveniently left out the part where a portion of what you pay actually goes toward the cost of making phone calls.  That part is small. Read AT&T's financial statements. They don't disclose exact figures but you can make a pretty good guess based on what they do disclose. Somewhere around 80-85%+ profit margin which is in-line with other services. That's why I overshot the number of months the subsidy covers. From 7 to 12 and from 3 to 6 or 12. That's plenty of time for the carrier to make a fair profit. It's not exact but without real figures it's impossible to know.
Congratulations on getting the knee-jerk word "predatory" in there though -- that makes the customer sound like a victim, which is always good for a specious, emotion-backed debate that's void of logic and reason. I specifically mentioned it is ultimately the customers fault for signing the contract. The big issue is how the handset makers and carriers create an artificial market to prevent the customer from having other choices. It's fine if they want to offer these 2 year contracts and, for many people, it might make complete sense to sign one. If you're happy with your carrier and plan to be with them for 2 years the ETF is a non-issue. In most cases if you buy an unlocked handset and signup for the same 2 year contract and decline the subsidized phone you're going to pay *exactly* the same price. How is that fair? It just shows the subsidy is made up and inflated to mislead customers. That is absolutely a predatory practice because the handset maker and wireless carriers are actively preventing you from buying an unlocked handset in a free market and then giving you no choice but to pay for a subsidy you're not even getting if you do decide to pay the hugely inflated price.
My solution is for the carriers to have to disclose the exact cost they are paying for the phone. Let the customers do the math and make their choice. They can't make a good choice if the information they're getting is just a made up number that exists only to make the 2 year contract look better giving the customer no other alternative choices or points of reference. | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |  jester121Premium join:2003-08-09 Lake Zurich, IL Reviews:
·voip.ms
| Re: Increased ETF justified; bogus $1.99 data fees not The retail price of phones is clearly visible on the signs in the store, and presumably not too difficult to locate on their website (though I don't care to check for myself at the moment). After paying an activation fee, a phone owner can sign up for service with no contract at all -- it will probably take jumping through some hoops because the trained monkeys aren't used to it, but I know people who've done it with a few carriers and it is available.
Hooty for you and your solution -- why would the carriers disclose their unit costs to you you or any customer, or to their competitors? It doesn't happen in many other industries and it's not information to which a customer has a reasonable expectation.
Not to trot out the same tired song, but if you think your way is better and customers would clamor to get a piece of it, start your own company and do something about it. There are plenty of small regional cell companies out there that are reselling carrier service and seem to be making a go of it in whatever their niche might be, so maybe yours is an idea whose time has come.
My suspicion is that no one really gives a damn -- remember, the people buying iPhones and paying the $30/month are the same ones who Karl and the rest of the BBR crowd are always ridiculing for spending $0.10 for a 160 byte (or whatever) text message and doing it hundreds of times a month. | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  jsz0Premium join:2008-01-23 Jewett City, CT | Re: Increased ETF justified; bogus $1.99 data fees not said by jester121:The retail price of phones is clearly visible on the signs in the store, and presumably not too difficult to locate on their website As previously noted the MSRP price is an artificial value. This is where the arrangement becomes quite deceptive to customers. If the issue is investigated and it can be proven that the carriers and handset makers collude to artificially reduce competition and increase prices they will have to change their business practices. The FCC is already looking into it. The FCC has the mandate to do this because the wireless carriers are using public property in the form of licensed wireless spectrum to deliver their service. | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  | | Re: Increased ETF justified; bogus $1.99 data fees not MSRP is a scam to begin with.
What many of you may not know is that there are also minimum selling prices and as a reseller you have to maintain that price or you will lose your right to sell their products. And resellers cannot legally tell you want their prices are for a product. Doing so will put them in breach of contract and they could be held financially liable. | |
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 |  |  thenderScreen tycoonPremium join:2009-01-01 Brooklyn, NY kudos:1 Reviews:
·Optimum Online
2 edits | said by Skippy25:I believe more than one site has tore the iPhone apart and determined it's cost to manufacture is around $100. This is such nonsense.
a) Cost to manufacture and cost to run a successful publicly traded company while supporting your device in its current stage and advancing it to the next are two TOTALLY DIFFERENT THINGS THAT SHOULD NEVER BE COMPARED.
b) None of these sites knows what the cost of the parts are. They could be more, they could be less, but they can't get an exact or even estimate fix on how much it costs to manufacture it. You have to look at so many different variables. It is difficult to calculate exact manufacturing cost per item even if you are the company doing the manufacturing. I sincerely doubt an unauthorized third party is able to come up with a legitimate estimate.
Have you ever tried to bring a commercial electronics device to the manufacturing stage? -- Macbook repair in NYC | |
|  |  |  |  1 edit | Re: Increased ETF justified; bogus $1.99 data fees not
EVERY device can be taken apart and have every core part analyzed and priced. It is done for the major consoles, it has been done on several phones and it will continue to be done. | |
|  |  |  |  |  thenderScreen tycoonPremium join:2009-01-01 Brooklyn, NY kudos:1 Reviews:
·Optimum Online
3 edits | Re: Increased ETF justified; bogus $1.99 data fees not You have no idea: absolutely no idea the exact or even estimate total cost to bring a device like this to market. To claim you do is ridiculous. You can't know all the intricacies involved unless you're a part of the team bringing it to market.
It costs money to pay people to tell you how to integrate everything you pick apart into a finished device. There's shipping, there's supporting the device. There is so much more to it than your narrowminded view of what it costs to make.
Do you really think the cost of the iPhone is the cost of its parts alone? Really?
Even if you did know the exact cost per unit, which you don't, a publicly traded company has every right to profit off their work. It's how they make better stuff down the line. Macbook repair in NYC | |
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 |  | | said by ThrowDemsOut:The bogus $1.99 fees for accidentally launching a browser and then going nowhere after the landing page is NOT justified. at&t wireless pulls the same shit. Each month since getting on their family plan, both my and my wife's phone have had these charges applied. The damn buttons on the phones and the menus make all too easy to accidently run the "browser".
Nice little scam these scumbags have going for them. As usual.
As for congress doing something for the consumers who get scabbed? Please, don't make me laugh... | |
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 banditws6Shrinking Time and DistancePremium join:2001-08-18 Frisco, TX Reviews:
·RoadRunner Cable
| Not charged for hitting Verizon pages? said by Verizon : Usage fees are not charged when a customer simply launches the Internet browser and lands on the Verizon Wireless Mobile Web homepage, which is the default setting.
Really?
When my wife had a Verizon phone -- a Moto E815, not even a smart phone -- she'd get multiple $1.99 "Data Access" fees per month. Once or twice I know she accidentally hit that "My Account" link within the phone's menus and immediately hit "Clear" in a panic attempt to abort the connection. I'm assuming that would have taken her to a Verizon webpage (she always cancelled the request before a page rendered), but according to VZW's statement, even that shouldn't have cost money.
I called VZW to complain about the charges that had no apparent cause, and they would neither give me any details about the data services used nor would they agree to credit me for them. The only option they gave me was to block all data services, which they also claimed would block SMS, which I didn't want to do. I can't speak for the accuracy of what they told me, so that might have been incorrect...but c'mon, when the service provider can't even get their facts straight...?
So I canceled the account instead, and it'll be a cold day in hell before I go back. Bunch of idiots. -- "I'll follow the law until it's just stupid." -Ted Nugent | |
|  | | Ugh.... I think big red would do well to cut the crap & apologize before att makes a scathing ad about it.
- A -- LETS GO METS! | |
|  |  | | Re: Ugh.... As ATT would say "We have an App for that" Verizon "We will charge you for that!" | |
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 | | Verizon, of course, is correct Dumb customers = better consumers. Who are they to whine about a measly $1.99 per month. I for one, would be happy to pay Verizon TWICE that, just to have the privilege of using their network. See, as tkjunkmail is so fond of pointing out, it's THEIR network, not yours. You pay them money so they let you use it. Who cares if the advertised $59.99 plan is actually $74.22 per month. That, as tk is so fond of saying, is the governments fault. The solution of course, is to stifle all the competition, that way you get the best service possible. I remember, back in the day, when I dialed (rotary) 0 on my phone, I got a real operator. That was the glory days of ma bell. Sure, I had to pay $.94 cents per minute to call across the state, but that's how much it REALLY COSTS. So, stop complaining, and just pay the fees. Verizon execs NEED your money, otherwise they would have to stop snorting coke and screwing hookers on their private jets to deposit their money overseas. Lets be honest, if you complain about the bill, then you are supporting pedophile pirate terrorists. I for one, am happy our FCC goons are able to retirerich from all the bribes they get. -- Remember 1 in 4 people are retarded. 25% of Americans are Republican. Coincidence? I don't think so. | |
|  |  See 18 replies to this post | |
 | | Wow,,,, Just one more reason to stay away from all cell phones, these places make JT Marlin in Boiler Room look like its 100% legit. Talk about crooks, no thanks, I don't have the time to take a few course in differential calculus to understand a freking cell phone "contract". | |
|  |  | | Re: Wow,,,, OMG!!! Outcast!!!!! | |
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 SlyLoK join:2007-10-19 Sugar Grove, VA | An extension? Why would they need an extension unless they were cooking something up? | |
|  | | bs when I go to my web browser and it takes me to My VZW's webpage it does in fact count up my "byte" usage and bill me for it... how can they calim it doesnt? | |
|  |  1 edit | The Magic 1.99 Fee I use to work for Verizon Wireless and even with all blocks in place and all apps removed from a phone some people would still get hit with the $1.99 fee. Our system engineers said they didn't know why or "the customer must still have an app on the phone." When you look at $1.99/mb x 87 million customers, thats alot of potential revenue. | |
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