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Verizon Stands up to BitTorrent User Data Subpoena
Cites Privacy Concerns in eBook Piracy Case
by Karl Bode 08:25AM Monday May 14 2012
When most large ISPs are subpoenaed by the entertainment industry for trading copyrighted files, they hand that data over without much concern for user privacy. Occasionally you'll see a company like Time Warner Cable protest the subpoenas, albeit simply because they're annoyed by the added labor costs involved. Verizon was one of the few big ISPs to fight with the entertainment industry over their DMCA carpet bombing efforts back in 2003. Apparently Verizon's back at it, this time fighting a book publisher who has been subpoenaing ISPs for the identities of eBook BitTorrent traders.

Verizon's refusing not simply because they're interested in saving a buck (only ten users were targeted for which Verizon would get $45 each), but claims to be concerned about subscriber privacy rights. Primarily though, Verizon's concerned that like so many "settlement-o-matic" efforts, the subpoena isn't about gaining any "relevant" information -- it's about harassing users for a buck:
quote:
One of the reasons given by Verizon is that Wiley is demanding the information for improper purposes, namely "to harass, cause unnecessary delay, or needlessly increase the cost of litigation." In addition, the Internet provider doubts whether the subpoena will lead to the discovery of "relevant information."
It's not clear if Verizon's objections would continue were the small book publisher a major broadcaster with which Verizon does business, but it's interesting to see a major carrier fight these kinds of quick-buck copyright settlement efforts all the same.

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baineschile
2600 ways to live
Premium
join:2008-05-10
Sterling Heights, MI

1 recommendation

Yay!

We can comment again.

I dont really have anything too insightful to say except; dont steal on the internet, as it will eventually be tracked by certain corporations.

cableties
Premium
join:2005-01-27

Re: Yay!

YAY!
...

I "Do" have something to add... Yay!


--
Splat

Duramax08
To The Moon
Premium
join:2008-08-03
San Antonio, TX

Re: Yay!

I also have something to say.

About damn time!!!!!!

yay_Comments

@allstream.net
i'm too am glad commenting is back.
dudeman456

join:2005-04-29
New York, NY

Re: Yay!

Yeah, I just noticed that. Its great!

thegeek
Premium
join:2008-02-21
right here
kudos:2
I don't steal on the internet. But I pirate. They are different.

/troll

cableties
Premium
join:2005-01-27

Re: Yay!

said by thegeek:

I don't steal on the internet. But I pirate. They are different.

/troll

Hypothetical Question

BluRay title "The Grey" at BB for on sale for $12.99
The same film on Xbox Live is 1480 pts (Roughly $17)
But on torrent, its free.
I felt LIVE is now a rip off.
Should I buy the disc (only to watch it once) or get the torrent (4GB file, might take 3 hours to d/l with several seeds)?

Now,I saw The Grey in theater... I enjoyed it but not enough to warrant purchase to own. But I did miss the extended ending (longer with better explanation not in theatrical).

What do I do? Will Verizon turn me in if I d/l the torrent, watch the ending and then delete?
--
Splat

thegeek
Premium
join:2008-02-21
right here
kudos:2

Re: Yay!

Well if you're smart about the way you pirate (i.e. don't use bittorrent and if you must don't use pirate bay) then you likely won't get caught.

Thanks for the reminder about The Grey BTW. I missed it in the theater and want to see it.
StLCardsFan

join:2011-06-06
Lafayette, LA

Re: Yay!

wrong. Bittorrent is safe in a few dark corners of the net ...using trackers you haven't heard of. Oh yes ..they do exist ... just not on your radar

RARPSL

join:1999-12-08
Suffern, NY
said by cableties:

said by thegeek:

I don't steal on the internet. But I pirate. They are different.

/troll

Hypothetical Question

BluRay title "The Grey" at BB for on sale for $12.99
The same film on Xbox Live is 1480 pts (Roughly $17)
But on torrent, its free.
I felt LIVE is now a rip off.
Should I buy the disc (only to watch it once) or get the torrent (4GB file, might take 3 hours to d/l with several seeds)?

Now,I saw The Grey in theater... I enjoyed it but not enough to warrant purchase to own. But I did miss the extended ending (longer with better explanation not in theatrical).

What do I do? Will Verizon turn me in if I d/l the torrent, watch the ending and then delete?

Check if your local library system has a copy for loan. Also if you have a Blockbuster or NetFlix rent-by-mail account, rent it there.

N3OGH
Yo Soy Col. "Bat" Guano
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
kudos:2
How about go rent it for like 2 bucks???

N3OGH
Yo Soy Col. "Bat" Guano
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
kudos:2
Glad to see commenting back as well.

Karl should do a brief blurb outlining what happened to the site, the history of the data loss & recovery & open it to comments.

Kind of a meet & greet the first day back from a long hiatus.

I'm sure this Friday's open thread (first one in like, what a MONTH?) will be interesting.

Kinda like seeing who's drunk & posting on Facebook on a Saturday night!
--
Petty people are disproportionally corrupted by petty power

FFH
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5

Verizon doesn't care about book thieves

But I bet if the BitTorrent users were copying TV shows or movies on Verizon's pay-per-view offering list they would play along. A small book publisher just doesn't merit Verizon's interest and is an annoyance they don't want to encourage from other small fry.
dudeman456

join:2005-04-29
New York, NY

Re: Verizon doesn't care about book thieves

Even if they were copying the Pay Per View line up, it does not make business sense to dump someone paying you $100+ because you lost a few dollars.

Like in this case, Verizon would be getting paid $45 per customer, and then might end up lossing the money they get monthly from that account.

88615298
Premium
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness

1 recommendation

Re: Verizon doesn't care about book thieves

said by dudeman456:

Even if they were copying the Pay Per View line up, it does not make business sense to dump someone paying you $100+ because you lost a few dollars.

Like in this case, Verizon would be getting paid $45 per customer, and then might end up lossing the money they get monthly from that account.

but if you don't do something them you encourage everyone to do it.
iknow
Premium
join:2012-03-25

Re: Verizon doesn't care about book thieves

said by 88615298:

said by dudeman456:

Even if they were copying the Pay Per View line up, it does not make business sense to dump someone paying you $100+ because you lost a few dollars.

Like in this case, Verizon would be getting paid $45 per customer, and then might end up lossing the money they get monthly from that account.

but if you don't do something them you encourage everyone to do it.

they should NOT try to identify an infringer by IP address!!. first, many times they get the wrong IP address, and second, the IP address don't identify a person!. it could be someone that hacked in to your wireless, and then you could spend thousands of dollars on a lawyer trying to fight this, it HAS happened before!. they need to take a picture of the person using that account at the time the infringing takes place!. THEN something like this is valid.
25139889

join:2011-10-25
Toledo, OH
VZ would not hurt over a few dollars a month. For ever customer that leaves they gain more in its place.
Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:1
or it could be that Verizon simply sees it as better PR to fight the court order than blindly comply and let some other company pick through their subscriber records.

IMO every ISP should resist. if the big ones actually resisted and demanded hard evidence than there would be less media owner lawyers picking through people's records.

The Entire "war on piracy" has been bullshit from the start, it has not done a thing and has cost consumers and taxpayers money for nothing.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports

habskilla

join:2005-09-19
Moncton, NB

1 edit

it's coming to an end

These lawsuits are coming to and end.

»digitaljournal.com/article/324465

Once defense lawyers start using this, it's game over.
--
»speedtest.net/result/1940600461.png
slimtim

join:2002-12-12
Coldwater, MI

Re: it's coming to an end

TPTB next step is a special chip implanted in your fingers integrated with computer keyboard..so they know who's at the computer at the time of the crime. Hmmm.. Minority Report here we come...
tkdslr

join:2004-04-24
Pompano Beach, FL
Reviews:
·T-Mobile US
·Speakeasy

ID'ing e=book bit torrent users on Cell networks,

is really difficult to get right.

All the cell phone network data is flowing through a distributed network of NAT's, thus thousands of users all appear to be using the same IP address.

A bit torrent for an e-book(A couple of mega bytes) wouldn't take very long. A couple of seconds on a LTE network.

Thus there would be a good chance of identifying the wrong party, who in turn could counter sue and name Verizon for negligence.

Transmaster
Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus

join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY

Re: ID'ing e=book bit torrent users on Cell networks,

There are so many free ebooks to be had from Amazon, Google Books, Baen, etc, etc, etc. why pirate. of course this is all a part of the big stink going with iBooks, and the usual we want more money crowd.
--
I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's.
- Mark Twain in Eruption

joako
Premium
join:2000-09-07
/dev/null
kudos:6

Give them a cut

I am sure Verizon would reverse their position if they got say a 20% cut of the settlements.
--
PRescott7-2097

Zehd

@sbcglobal.net

CAN they even identify them??

This might be more complicated than you realize; one reason verizon may be trying to block this might be because they CANNOT identify the identities--if the IP's in question are the IP addresses of their cache servers for all their 3g customers. Even though they only requested the identities of 10 ip addresses, it's quite conceivable that all 10 are cache servers serving thousands of users each.

If it IS the cache servers in question, verizon would have to be provided with accurate timestamps, PLUS the source and target IP address and source and target port numbers. Only with all of that would they be able to--if they still have it logged (the log may auto-delete after 30 days or so--only reason they keep it even that long would be to assist law enforcement---because that would be a LOT of data to keep track of.) They basically have to keep a log of the every tcp stream (they might or might not log udp sessions) on their cache server (original source IP, cache server iP, original port number, target port number, cache server port number, timestamp).... and then they would have to cross reference the internal IP address to the PPP dial-up logs to identify the phone.