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story category Verizon Still Says No Caps....Yet
On heels of AT&T's new trial, will Verizon follow suit?
(old news - 06:40PM Wednesday Nov 05 2008)
tags: business · bandwidth · caps
Earlier this week, we reported that AT&T was planning a trial of caps and $1 per gigabyte overage fees in the Reno, Nevada market, with plans to expand the trial into one additional market before the end of the year. That means three of the five largest ISPs (AT&T, Time Warner Cable and Comcast) have either implemented caps, or are considering both caps and overage fees. What about Verizon? They've continually been very careful with their language, telling us they won't rule it out, but occasionally making the claim that caps are a solution to a cable industry problem. Verizon spent some time repeating their position to websites reporting on AT&T's new plans this week. "That's not to say it won't ever happen," A spokesperson tells Wired News. "But at the moment we have plenty of capacity and we're happy to deliver to our users as much bandwidth as they require."

But what happens if Comcast, Time Warner Cable and AT&T all decide to make considerably more money by pursuing metered bandwidth? It's hard to think that Verizon will remain cap free simply out of good will, though it would give them a marketing advantage. It will be a fiscal decision if it happens, not a necessity. AT&T isn't considering caps because they have a bandwidth crunch from going with FTTN instead of FTTH, they simply want to make investors happy by boosting revenue, with the added bonus of making alternative video services (which not coincidentally compete with U-Verse TV) more expensive for users. AT&T has made it clear you really don't need a solid reason to want to begin charging customers more, for less -- other than you just really want to.

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Forums » Verizon Still Says No Caps....Yet
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Pathfinder
Dazed Confused
Premium
join:2000-03-26
Mount Vernon, NY

What happens if cows fly?

Why is this even a topic. They don't cap now and if they decide to in the future we'll deal with it.
What if DSLReports becomes a pay site. They aren't now but if Justin wants more money they might.

djrobx

join:2000-05-31
Valencia, CA
·PHONE POWER
·AT&T U-Verse
·AT&T CallVantage
·Time Warner VOIP
·RoadRunner Cable

Re: What happens if cows fly?

Because people are still shopping for ISPs, and when making a decision on which one to pick, it's good to know where a potential ISP stands. You never know what's coming but these things give us a good idea.

Verizon's a real pain in their competition's ass, and it's great for consumers. I'm sure Time Warner, AT&T and Comcast wish they would just implement a cap; collusion doesn't work if everyone's not on board!
--
AT&T U-Hearse
Your funeral. Delivered.
EPS

join:2008-02-13
Hingham, MA

I almost get the idea that some people WANT Verizon to cap, because it would make it easier to condemn all corporations... or perhaps they're tired of people jumping into discussions about other ISPs introducing capping with "Haha I have 353427692067Gbps symmetrical FiOS why would anyone get a different ISP"... (No, I'm not entirely serious here)

Subaru
1-3-2-4
Premium
join:2001-05-31
Greenwich, CT
clubs:
·STANAPHONE
·Packet8

said by Pathfinder See Profile :

Why is this even a topic. They don't cap now and if they decide to in the future we'll deal with it.
What if DSLReports becomes a pay site. They aren't now but if Justin wants more money they might.
if they do should keep a large amount of trolls out

Smith6612
Premium
join:2008-02-01
united state
·Dish Network
·Verizon Online DSL
·FrontierNet Intern..

Go Verizon!

Best to stay uncapped. What good is offering FiOS when it's capped anyways? Staying uncapped is one of the reasons why I have service with them. Besides, since Seimens and Verizon were able to do that one test that will allow providers to boost fiber optic speeds over field fiber, surely that'll keep Verizon if they decide to upgrade the backbones from capping.
bzmeteorite

join:2006-02-15
Nipomo, CA

Re: Go Verizon!

Well, it's not just about upgrading the backbone. Even though Verizon is a Tier 1 network (meaning they don't pay for transit) and own their own international fiber network, that doesn't mean they won't upset some other Tier 1 network providers. Look at Cogent, they undercut the competition so much they get in peering disputes. What happens when Verizon becomes the provider with the most outgoing network usage because they don't do caps and have really fast fiber connections? AT&T, AOL, and Qwest all have their own Tier 1 networks, and with AT&T and Time Warner Cable having caps, they may feel threatened by Verizon. I wonder if Qwest has talked about caps yet.

Of course, that is all hypothetical, because any company that gets in a peering dispute (for both Verizon and the adversary) is a PR nightmare. Especially when Verizon counters that their competitor is only dropping the connection because they provide more value to their customers.

Something to think about, nonetheless.
--
What happens when you combine common sense and an outspoken personality?
BosstonesOwn

join:2002-12-15
Everett, MA
clubs:
·Comcast

Re: Go Verizon!

Cogent got in trouble for purposely routing traffic to peers they had a free exchange deal with.

Verizon doesn't have those arrangements , Ivan is a tech who made good , he knows all the little tricks these guys pull.
--
"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!"
bzmeteorite

join:2006-02-15
Nipomo, CA


1 edit

Re: Go Verizon!

said by BosstonesOwn See Profile :

Cogent got in trouble for purposely routing traffic to peers they had a free exchange deal with.

Verizon doesn't have those arrangements , Ivan is a tech who made good , he knows all the little tricks these guys pull.
Maybe so, I'm not too sure what happened. Both companies twisted the facts a bit (as far as I can tell from my disadvantaged perspective), but I'm less inclined to trust Cogent since they have been in so many peering disputes (but I still think their business model is kickass, undercut everyone! ). Any peer, though, will be mad if traffic ratios are heavily unbalanced, regardless if you're routing properly or not.

Though my above example is pretty hypothetical; no Tier 1 network provider would get in a peering dispute with Verizon unless they were ready to sign a suicide note. Verizon has quite a large footprint/customer base.
--
What happens when you combine common sense and an outspoken personality?

skuv

@rr.com

No, that isn't why Cogent "got in trouble."

Cogent never purposely routed undesired/unwanted traffic to its settlement free peers. That has actually been done to THEM before.

Cogent has a lot of content, and thus there is an imbalance of traffic to its peers, as some of its larger peers have a ton of customers wanting to reach all that content on their network. So the larger peers get greedy because they want Cogent to pay, since they see the traffic as an imbalance. Even though their customers want that traffic REGARDLESS.

If Cogent lost a settlement free peer, and needed to get to that network, the last thing they'd do is buy transit from the company that depeered them. And these stupid companies don't realize that. Cogent can simply turn around and buy transit from a friendlier company, and get to the former peer that way. Thus screwing the former peer by sending the traffic somewhere else, instead of direct.

Why do people always think that Cogent is magically making traffic that these networks don't want?

Who do you think is requesting this traffic? It's the customers that are already paying them.

It's obvious Cogent is only being depeered because of its pricing schemes. The traffic imbalance is an excuse. Because there are MANY companies that continue to peer with huge traffic imbalances, because they don't compete on price with each other, or don't compete directly at all.

Time Warner Cable doesn't provide any real content, but has millions of customers requesting content, traffic through their backbone to settlement free peers is certainly out of balance, but these companies aren't depeering TWC, because they aren't competing directly for the same customers. ATDN, AOL's backbone, is definitely out of balance, because of the tens of millions of dialup customers they have, but they aren't getting depeered, and they've been in the settlement free peering business for 10+ years now.
axus

join:2001-06-18
Washington, DC

Re: Go Verizon!

Or maybe TWC and the rest don't care about their customers, and want to force some "real content" to abandon Cogent and come under their control?
SilverSurfer

join:2007-08-19

One Word

quote:
you really don't need a solid reason to want to begin charging customers more, for less -- other than you just really want to.
There is a word for this concept. It's called ::GREED:: Companies want to not just squeeze every last nickel out of consumers, but hold them upside down and shake them by the ankles to make sure they get any spare pennies, as well.

freebird317
Premium
join:2004-02-23
Portland, OR
·Comcast

Re: One Word

said by SilverSurfer See Profile
There is a word for this concept. It's called ::GREED::
[/BQUOTE :


So true.
ITALIAN926

join:2003-08-16
Stratford, CT

Tick toc

Hate to tell ya, but in the future when internet on-demand video services become super popular , especially high def video , Verizon will be capping their downloads also. Its only a matter of time, especially when theyre trying to SELL video. Enjoy the downstreams while you can
hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

Re: Tick toc

We both know we disagree on everything. But this is one thing that we both can agree on. It's just a matter of time before VZ caps as well.

ninjatutle
Premium

join:2006-01-02
San Ramon, CA
·Sprint Mobile Broa..

Don't cap me bro

They're not in my service area but the message is still applies. Verizon Wireless was the first of the major players to cap the wireless mobile broadband though. I won't forget that

I have dual services, home and mobile. Thanks to VZW, every other carrier followed soon after

major marco
Res Firma Mitescere Nescit
Premium
join:2003-02-13
Stepford, CA
clubs:

Re: Don't cap me bro

said by ninjatutle See Profile :

They're not in my service area but the message is still applies. Verizon Wireless was the first of the major players to cap the wireless mobile broadband though. I won't forget that

I have dual services, home and mobile. Thanks to VZW, every other carrier followed soon after
Oh come on now...you know that if you're exceeding whatever bandwidth the ISP is generous enough to bestow upon you then you must be a pirate!
--
The Toll

Tracking Lord Stanley
jca2050
Premium
join:2002-02-04
Lewisville, TX
·Verizon FIOS


1 edit

No Caps

I doubt we will see usage caps in the near future. Verizon has invested so much money into FTTH deployment that they are trying to please their FiOS customers as much as possible and I don't think they want to risk customers jumping ship if they start to enforce caps.

Cable companies haven't invested nearly as much as Verizon and can afford to take a gamble on usage caps. If Verizon does decide to do it, I would imagine their caps being extremely high (750GB for 20/20 for instance) considering how much bandwidth we have to work with.

pspcrazy
Anime Freak

join:2008-02-06
San Diego, CA

Re: No Caps

Believe me it's better to not post about what a good cap would be. I prefer when users just say they don't want caps so it won't give verizon any idea's that a cap is acceptable ever.

That's my input on caps.
axus

join:2001-06-18
Washington, DC
·Verizon Online DSL

Being able to say "I have no caps, nothing to worry about" is a definite advantage, when the prospective customer has no idea what a Gigabyte is. Though in that case, they might not know what a cap is either. I expect the caps will never be advertised, and buried in fine print, its up to Verizon to bring up the subject in their advertising.

jsm1234

@optonline.net

how long can verizon leave the reward in the window without-

how long can Verizon leave the reward in the window without taking it. Right now most companies are just trialing this anyway but there is risk for Verizon as well as benefit if they don't cap and/or meter. The obvious benefit is a marketing advantage, Verizon boasting its speediness without cap theoretically should attract customers like flies. On the other hand, capping and/or metering is a golden opportunity for them to boost revenue with a fairly reasonable excuse of, "we'll their doing it", however, if VZ doesn't join on the bandwagon, these cable companies may meet VZ's bluff and ultimately not do it either thus cutting the potential for a lucrative revenue stream VZ could be picking up.

If VZ offered the cap but waived it when a full package was offered, they would do great in all 3 of their wired FIOS offerings.

These are all my thoughts, of course.

Xizer

join:2004-02-05
New York, NY

FIOS + Caps = Bad Business

I couldn't give two shits whether I get 1 Mbps or 100 Mbps if it's capped. In fact, I'd probably prefer the 1 Mbps connection so I don't accidentally exceed my cap.

Verizon would be taking away the one advantage FIOS has over the competition. That's bad business sense.
jam_bongo

join:2002-07-17
Toronto, ON

ATTN: OP TYPO

small typo "trial of caps" not "trail of caps"
bah

join:2001-04-22
Brooklyn, NY

Slow news day

Me thinks
dustinrjo

join:2008-07-11
Pasadena, CA
·AT&T Yahoo

so it is time for the era of telco robber barons

If ATT, Comcast, Time Warner are all capping, then my goal to never have a cable or satellite subscription and only watch HD video over the internet in place of television to save money, will never work! That is not fair that all of the ISPs now have competing TV services. Since when did TV and Internet become indivisible as far as competition is concerned?

I think having a every telco and information services company providing all services, phone, TV, and internet, is actually creating a monopolistic market where no company can come in and compete against just phone service or just video service or just internet because there are no small guys anymore like the choice we used to have with dial up.

FastiBook

join:2003-01-08
Newtown, PA

Throughput...

The throughput i see with fios seems limitless. It really is like the internet comes to your ONT. All they gotta do is upgrade routers over time to increase bandwidth to the end user.

- A
--
LETS GO METS!

telcolackey
The Truth? You can't handle the truth

join:2007-04-06
Death Valley, CA

Re: Throughput...

said by FastiBook See Profile :

The throughput i see with fios seems limitless. It really is like the internet comes to your ONT.
That may be your perception, but it is far from reality. FiOS is brand new and has spot capacity with a new customer base. This is very similar as when other broadband services first started.

said by FastiBook See Profile :

All they gotta do is upgrade routers over time to increase bandwidth to the end user.
Unlimited bandwidth requires unlimited infrastructure which requires unlimited capital. All of which are unrealistic.
--
"Believe only half of what you see and nothing that you hear." - Dinah Craik

DSLTech

join:2000-12-30
San Jose, CA

There ARE alternatives.

Not sure why everyone has to get service with the big boys when smaller ISPs still provide everything you need and no caps.

Maybe its cheaper but when your service is limited watchoo gunna do? Pay more? Put your money where your mouth is.
vinnie97

join:2003-12-05
Mesquite, TX

quote

"AT&T has made it clear you really don't need a solid reason to want to begin charging customers more, for less -- other than you just really want to."

HAHAHA, I love this line, Karl. Thanks for the levity.

yolarry

join:2007-12-29
Creston, WV

I dont got DSL yet

They better not.

or I just tell them to shove that line up their ass.
Forums » Verizon Still Says No Caps....Yet


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