  BK3
join:2001-04-10
Geneva, IL | 65 channels? 65 Public access channels does seem to be a bit extreme. | |
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 | | | Re: 65 channels? 3 is usually the top rate. government public and education | |
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| | | one for every high school, one for all the county departments, one live feed to each mall in the county.. and they still have about 10 to go.... | |
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| |  pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | Re: 65 channels? said by Romney2012:That is about 64 channels more than anyone in the county but government officials would ever watch. Public access channels aren't all that bad. After all, they did bring us this guy.
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Tancredo 2008! | |
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| | | | | Re: 65 channels? Lets not forget Jim Spagg | |
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| | | | pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And PrettyPremium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | Re: 65 channels? Too late.
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Tancredo 2008! | |
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| | |  53059959Temp banned from BBR more then anyone
join:2002-10-02
PwnZone | don't forget waynes world was broadcasted on a community access channel | |
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| | patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1 | The county wants "the equivelent of 65 digital channels", Verizon is twisting around words, when the county really asked for 4-7 ANALOG channels, which is 65 digitahl channels. This was DSLR news last week. Karl seems to be running out of news. | |
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| | | | | Re: 65 channels? Is the reason for asking for analog channels because the target audience is poor and not likely using cable tv boxes? | |
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| | | | | | Re: 65 channels? Well the only people receiving service would be those using FIOS, thus the cable box issue isn't in play.
I can't believe I'm saying it, but I think Verizon may have a point...they are being WAY too demanding.
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AMD X2 4800+ @2700Mhz/ MSI K8N Neo 4 Platinum SLI/ 4x 1024Mb Corsair XMS PC4000/ WD 74Gb Raptor/ PNY 7800GTs SLI/ Antec 550 True Control/Custom water cooler | |
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| |  JTRockvilleData HoPremium,MVM
join:2002-01-28
Rockville, MD
 ·Verizon FiOS
| said by Romney2012:said by BK3:65 Public access channels does seem to be a bit extreme. That is about 64 channels more than anyone in the county but government officials would ever watch. Speak for your own PEG channels. In Montgomery County MD, our PEGs win awards, and are an important part of the educational system. | |
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|  nixenRockin' the BoxenPremium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA | I dunno how many they have in my own county, but I know it's more than just one or two. I can recall about a dozen, though.
-tom | |
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| | | The Only Thing worse than a Politician is Child Molester unless the Politician also happens to be a lawyer.
One hand in your pocket, one hand on the knife your back, and telling you BS while telling everything else the same BS a little differently.
-Rach | |
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|  TzaleProud Libertarian ConservativePremium
join:2004-01-06
NYC Metro | said by BK3:65 Public access channels does seem to be a bit extreme. Yeah, really....
We have, I believe, three public access channels here.. Most of the time, it just has a "community calendar" with music playing. When somebody actually uses it, it is ALWAYS the same two towns out of the 50 in the area. And it is just stupid stuff like garage talk shows or some guy walking around to pizza parlors in his town. They also simulcast the same program on all three channels, even though they are numbered sequentially.
It sounds like Verizon is being pushed out by bribed county officials.
-Tzale
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»www.hello-radio.org/
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| | | Comcast's existing franchise requires them to provide "13 analog video Channels for non-commercial public, educational and governmental use [PEG]", plus "up to 10% of the System's total downstream digital capacity for PEG use subject to a limit of 25 Channel Equivalents". All that is "in addition to any capacity provided on the Institutional Network pursuant to Section 7(h)".
Sounds to me like Montgomery County is requiring Verizon to provide about the same as they required from Comcast.
I have Fios and love it. Can't wait for Verizon to provide Fios TV so we can have real competition. But it sounds a bit like Verizon wants to unlevel the playing field in this case. | |
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|  marigoldsGainfully employed, finallyPremium,MVM
join:2002-05-13
Saint Louis, MO
kudos:1 | said by BK3:65 Public access channels does seem to be a bit extreme. Totally standard actually.
I read a lot of franchise agreements while I was helping out on a negotiation, and nearly all of them require the cable company to set aside 10% of their digital spectrum for government and education (not public access as Verizon is claiming). The rule on this spectrum is that if the government is not using it, then the franchisee can use it as they wish. This spectrum has a lot of uses that the public never sees (the most common one being remote site transmission bandwidth and closed circuit classrooms). This is on top of the base analog channels requirement (normally 4-7 analog channels) which we commonly think of as public access, education, and government channels.
When you add it up as digital channel bandwidth, 65 really is pretty small.
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ISCABBS - the oldest and largest BBS on the Internet
telnet://whip.isca.uiowa.edu
Professional Geographer
Geographic Information Science researcher | |
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| | Old News... I believe that this news has already been discussed here...
But either way I feel that if Montgomery County wants to play hardball with Verizon with their FIOS deployment that Verizon should skip over Montgomery County and deploy in an area that will welcome them. There are many many areas that would love to have Verizon FIOS and Verizon should go there. If the government of Montgomery County wants to limit the growth of new services for their residents so be it!
Marckus  | |
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| | | Re: Old News... said by Marckus0513:But either way I feel that if Montgomery County wants to play hardball with Verizon with their FIOS deployment that Verizon should skip over Montgomery County and deploy in an area that will welcome them. There are many many areas that would love to have Verizon FIOS and Verizon should go there. If the government of Montgomery County wants to limit the growth of new services for their residents so be it! Marckus I would agree with you but I have 2 points.
First, if Verizon wants to bypass Montgomery County, then they should be able to BUT they may NOT stop anyone else from servicing the county if they agree to the county rules. If any other company would like to wire up Montgomery County with fiber, then neither Verizon nor Comcast should have ANY say in the matter.
Second, Montgomery County is acting this way not to limit growth but because of Comcast's prior dealings. Do a search and you will see how Comcast provided, in many cases, sub-standard service and refused to even acknowledge the problem, much less fix it. The broadband bill of rights »Broadband Bill of Rights was in response to the way Comcast treated the county. "Make your bed, now sleep in it." Now Verizon is going to get the same treatment because of the level of trust that exists. | |
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| | | | Re: Old News... I don't know how true that is. I believe Comcast had to jump through the same hoops, thats why they want VZ to have to go through the same process they did, not get statewide fanchises.
I could be wrong though. | |
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| | | | Telecomm services in Montgomery County are deplorable. I'm a Verizon customer and I'd like to say the new whiz-bang-zip-FiOS service is horrible for this reason alone. Verizon migrates all of their existing customers on copper phonelines over to FiOS. What is the big deal? Well anyone who decides, 'I don't like Verizon's phone services, I think I'll switch' is in for a rude awakening. You can't. You are stuck! Verizon purposely did that to 'trap' existing customers. Verizon is losing their POTS(copper lines) like the flood gates opened in Rome. So to keep the few customers they have they are moving them to Fiber. This removes choice and options to the consumer. Now what do you call this boys and girls? A monopoly, that is right. Well, not totally, this is more an 'artificial' monopoly. You allow only your service on your fibers so your customers have no choice. I'll be filing a complaint with the Maryland Public Utilities Commission and naming a few of those very unwilling to assist Verizon employees in my complaint. Beware of FiOS. Get telephone services elswhere before getting the FiOS internet. You will be sorry if you don't do that first.  | |
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| | | BarneyBadAssBadasses Fight For FreedomPremium
join:2004-05-07
00001
1 edit | Re: Old News... I'm not sure I completely agree with your assessment...
I have FIOS; one phone line on Fiber one still POTS.. what's the big deal?
I sure wouldn't use the other broadband provider here in the county .... and personally, as soon as FIOS TV is available (I wish it were soon rather than later) I'll be saying buh-by ... I can hardly wait...
As it is; my tv pixilates and when I call the TV service; all they can say is "We can schedule a technician".... we'll see what they can do to fix this... but I tend to suspect it as being a case where the data can't be provided consistently to the converter box... | |
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| | | | | This forum has had several threads about keeping copper phonelines. If you do file a complaint with PUC, please keep us posted. | |
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| | | Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
| Umm yea, what "competition" are you speaking of? CLECS !!?? lol Yea, theres a true competition. You have no valid points. Youre talking about other companies that RESELL verizons product. Time to enter into the 21st century my friend. RBOC's Vs Cable Vs wireless. CLECS are a ridiculous form of telecom competition and its time for them to become extinct.
Nobody likes a middleman. | |
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| | | | | said by childofosi:I'll be filing a complaint with the Maryland Public Utilities Commission and naming a few of those very unwilling to assist Verizon employees in my complaint. Yeah, good luck with that.
Just to remind you, because of their dealing with Constellation Power Group and the recent electric deregulation screw up, they have all been fired and will be replaced with a new board.  | |
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| cacoPremium
join:2005-03-10
Whittier, AK | said by Marckus0513:I believe that this news has already been discussed here... Verizon should skip over Montgomery County and deploy in an area that will welcome them. Marckus Montgomery county is vey high income. Verizon is not going skip that area. Verizon wants access to those pocketbooks.
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Bush Derangement Syndrome: the acute onset of paronia in otherwise normal people in reaction to the policies, the presidency--nay-the very existence of George W. Bush.---
Charles Krauthammer | |
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| |  TransmasterDon't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY | Re: Old News... said by caco:said by Marckus0513:I believe that this news has already been discussed here... Verizon should skip over Montgomery County and deploy in an area that will welcome them. Marckus Montgomery county is vey high income. Verizon is not going skip that area. Verizon wants access to those pocketbooks. I think you have it. Montgomery county knows they have deep pocket books Verizon want to get into so they are playing hard ball to get the best deal, and rather then bargain Verizon does what they always do sue.
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The older I get the more I prefer the company of my dogs over that of man kind. | |
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| | | | | Re: Old News... Who else is Verizon going to sue? The Ice Cream parlor for making Ice Cream too sweet? | |
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| | | |  rawWar EaglePremium
join:2001-01-17
Madison, AL | Re: Old News... No, they're going to sue Proctor and Gamble for not making their Crest toothpaste prevent cavities from all the ice cream they're eating.
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[BBR]raw
America's Army
BBR Enemy Territory clan founder | |
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| |  cdruGo ColtsPremium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:5
·Frontier FiOS
| said by caco:Montgomery county is vey high income. Verizon is not going skip that area. Verizon wants access to those pocketbooks. No business is going to turn away a paying customer. However based on demographics of existing rollouts, middle class is actually the leading class of subscribers. Very high income does not always mean high subscription rates, that that is what really counts.
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Quis custodiet custodes ipsos? | |
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| | | I would rather that the county limited uncontrolled growth. That would be a better way to preserve quality of life in the county. We live in down county and every sq meter of vacant land is turned into more townhouses or "city homes" throwing more gas chugging SUV's on the same overburdened roads. In the process, remaining forest tracts are clearcut. Have you seen the development at I270 and Montrose. The developers were allowed to mow down every tree. Upcounty, I drive past large new developments throwing more cars on the same overburdened roads. I wish our elected officials would focus on this. | |
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pstauff
join:2005-04-27
Gaithersburg, MD Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
1 edit | It's about time! Even worse, Rockville Maryland won't let Verizon even install FiOS Internet until there is a video franchising agreement. That is crazy. I live in Gaithersburg and I am being affected by stupid Rockville. While my local government "protects" me, I pay higher prices for Comcast. When will they realize a free market will provide us more protection than what they can provide? We have seen this in every area where Verizon installs FiOS. Magically the prices on cable and cable Internet drops. | |
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| | | Re: It's about time! It's not about competition or the consumer. It's about enriching local politicians. | |
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| RayWPremium
join:2001-09-01
Layton, UT
kudos:1 | said by pstauff:While my local government "protects" me, I pay higher prices for Comcast. When will they realize a free market will provide us more protection than what they can provide?
Well, you could always try to get up an impeachment on the Montgomery County officials that are driving this on the grounds that they are not doing their job correctly. Be interesting to see how many people sign your impeachment paperwork.
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I am not lost, I find myself every time. | |
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| | | Uhm....really? That's funny because I live in Rockville and I have FIOS internet. It's great. Had it for a few months now... | |
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| | JohnAPremium
join:2003-09-16
Pittsburgh, PA | Re: It's about time!
You don't live within the Rockville city limits, or you wouldn't have it. | |
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 Titus PulloI came, I saw, I slept
join:2004-06-26
kudos:1
 ·Embarq Now Centu..
| Don't skip the part about "Those demands, according to Verizon, include regulating placement of Verizon's wires ..."
Huh? Then who SHOULD have control over where a communications company places its wires? -- The freakin company? You want your garden dug up or the wires buried in your arse? Don't care? Then turn your backs because of an admittedly stupid 65 public access channel turd and let the fun begin.
As for deep pockets, Montgomery county may have pockets of deep pockets, but those pockets are getting more shallow every year. Check the changing demographics and housing values. Every burrow has its own 'pocket' of 6 or more to a house on every block with more to come.
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"I am not young enough to know everything."
Oscar Wilde | |
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| | | Re: Don't skip the part about I believe in Maryland it's the state PUC which regulates the placement of the wires.
Monkey county appears to just be trying to be unreasonable. Demanding that VZ pays Montgomery County for the lawyers that the county uses to negotiate with VZ is a nice touch. I wonder if Montgomery County courts demand that defendants pay for their prosecution... | |
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| | | | Re: Don't skip the part about said by russotto:I wonder if Montgomery County courts demand that defendants pay for their prosecution... What do you think court costs are?
Most people pay these in traffic court but no so much in criminal court because most are considered indigent. | |
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| | | | | Re: Don't skip the part about Court costs theoretically go to the court, not to the prosecutor's office. The equivalent would be Verizon paying for an arbitrator or mediator. | |
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 VigThread-safe since 1997Premium
join:2004-03-23
San Diego, CA | negotiating tactic? I can't imagine anyone on the government's negotiating team actually believing they could need so many public access channels. I think it's more likely they knew VZ was going to balk and that they figured they could pare down their channel number demands as a concession later in the negotiating process.
Inflated public channel numbers aside, the county should definitely be reserving some purview over wire placement; that's just common sense. If they don't lay down the ground rules for what/where/how on physical line placement, residents are sure to get the raw end of the deal.
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Visit the land of the never-setting sun | |
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| | | Re: negotiating tactic? Verizon can currently lay cable because it's for telephone service which the county does not regulate. | |
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RayWPremium
join:2001-09-01
Layton, UT
kudos:1 | This was beat to death before »Verizon Squares Off Against County But 65 channels is a lot, if you are still in the 1980's. Today 65 analog channels are not all that much compared to what the rest of the system will probably be providing. And with the projected on demand technology discussed before, that means even more apparent 'available' channels.
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I am not lost, I find myself every time. | |
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See 6 replies to this post |
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hurfyPremium
join:2002-08-06
Spokane, WA | hmm I think the big television networks should push for the 65 public access channels everywhere......
....It would cut down on channel surfing, afterall who would dare!
ok, surely the 65 is for opening numbers. Does sound pretty overblown.
PAy the county lawyers sounds a bit greedy, maybe a consultant or negotiate it.
Don't blame em for not trusting verizon to wires in right spot tho C'mon thats a given isn't it? | |
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 Rob AJets AFC ChampionshipPremium
join:2005-01-17
Pompton Plains, NJ | Spread FiosTV Good move, and do whatever is necessary to get it done nationwide. | |
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 EricAnimals Rule This LandPremium,MVM
join:2000-09-29
I see trees. | The Chevy Chase Show, 24/7 You people have it all wrong. The 65 channels is for airing every episode (all one of them) of The Chevy Chase Show in 65 different languages, 24 hours a day.
»www.townofchevychase.org/
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Chuck Norris tries this at home. | |
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 FiLPremium
join:2005-08-16
Silver Spring, MD
4 edits | oh "Second, Montgomery County is acting this way not to limit growth but because of Comcast's prior dealings. Do a search and you will see how Comcast provided, in many cases, sub-standard service and refused to even acknowledge the problem, much less fix it. The broadband bill of rights »Broadband Bill of Rights was in response to the way Comcast treated the county. "Make your bed, now sleep in it." Now Verizon is going to get the same treatment because of the level of trust that exists."
EXACTLY. The county, and by the county I also mean "I", dont wanna have to go through the same problems Comcast was dealing out during those pre-get tough days. Why cant Verizon deal with a "you provide services to our residents, you better make sure your actually PROVIDING HELP ALSO."
ya damn right we got deep pockets over. (definatly not me, but the countys RICH) DAmn near Top 3 in the nation, an if not mistaking its top 2. That translates into new and renovated schools; i went to Montgomery Blair High School, where when I went, was 65-70 percent MINORITY. Right smack in the middle of Silver Spring. Basically what Im trying to say is we do draw the attention of big business. Love the Discovery Channel building; everyday from work I walk past a huge ass T-Rex skeleton proudly displayed in its windows. Its a great county to be a part of, and Im definatly proud to see that its not gonna let a company do whatever the hell it wants with its residents.
btw, Verizon FiOS is ALL OVER my lil area, Woodmoor, Silver Spring. Right down the street, where its all lower income housing, apartments and such, THEY GOT IT TOO. So if they dont wanna give us tv, OKIE DOKE.
teachers pet off. | |
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| | | Re: oh I'm a Montgomery resident too, and I back the county 1000% on this.
For starters, on the "principles" front, it's our damn county, and we get to parcel out the public resources to the benefit of residents. Corporations don't get to take what they want and whine when they are restricted. Ah, OK, they can whine, but at least in our county our government still works in the public interest. Sometimes.
Second, and on the "pragmatics" front, tastes vary. I definitely need internet access, for example, but have no use whatever for what passes for commercial cable or television. I have great use for those "60 whatever" digital channels which seem to work out to be 4-6 analog channels. Is there a little spin here?
Public access isn't just for droning public meetings and wonkery, as is implied. Some of us, admittedly not among the cool kids, like independent film, off-the-corporate map reporting and community television. People actually watch the stuff you know.
Third ... somebody needs to remind Verizon that they're not a branch of the government yet. At least at the local level. Oh yeah, that was the first point (grin). | |
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| | ronmax8
join:2001-02-07
Clarksburg, MD | Re: oh Anyway it might be to late for verizon anywhy, A lot of the new comunities in Montgomery county have cable included in the homeowners, For the $120 i pay my HOA we get basic and pereferd cable + internet + all the normal HOA stuff, snow removal, trash removal, pool, and etc..., As much has i hate the idea of being forced into cable there is no way i'm going to pay someone else for something i'm already paying for and can't get rid off.
we also get %30 off all other comcast services. My none HOA bill for 2 hd dvr box, 2 hd none dvr boxes and 1 reg box with all the channeles and $10 more the the higher speed is about $90 per month. | |
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| | | | I'm a resident and wish the county would negotiate with Verizon in good faith. Here are a few reasons:
Quality -- I have had their internet service for 7 months. Not one hiccup and twice the speed of comcast. I had comcast for the three year prior and I am so happy I switched to FIOS. Most online forum report that the quality of FIOS TV is head and shoulders above cable and satellite. As far as relying on franchise agreements for assuring quality -- I have comcast cable and a franchise agreement and the quality leaves something to be desired. I think competition would be a greater incentive to improving quality. They fear losing customers more than than the county cable office.
Price -- With FIOS internet I get more than 2x speed for same price as comcast (and no outages or loss of bandwidth). FIOS TV is about $300 less annually than Comcast. So how does the franchise agreement protect us -- Comcast has been able to raise its rate pretty much at will. Where FIOS TV is offered, cable companies have lowered their rates to compete.
Reliability -- After we lost power recently, FIOS internet was restored at the same time the power came on. Comcast followed six hours later. During my time with comcast internet, I suffered through significant loss of bandwidth and complete outages. FIOS internet has been 100% bulletproof.
ROW protection -- Currently Verizon is laying fiber across the county without a franchise agreement because the county doesn't regulate telephone and internet service. Somehow the county exercises some level of control. If the county would negotiate an agreement if good faith, it might have even greater control.
Verizon has raised many issues in it's lawsuit but I think their bottom line is that they don't want their phone service and internet service to be a part of the franchise agreement because it is currently not regulated. I think that is fair. If they county would agree to that requirement, I think we could have a deal quickly.
P.S. I vote democratic and want the county to raise taxes to fully fund our public schools. But when it comes to the marketplace, consumers will always win if there is more than one supplier. | |
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