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Verizon: T-Mobile Won't Cause us to 'Over-React' On Pricing
by Karl Bode 04:37PM Tuesday May 06 2014
Verizon's recently quarterly earnings suggests that the company is definitely feeling T-Mobile's price competition, with a 20% postpaid subscriber growth rate year over year and a slowdown in quarterly adds that went beyond what most analysts expected. Still, most of Verizon's price responses to T-Mobile have been modest at best, and Verizon CFO Fran Shammo states that you shouldn't expect the company to seriously respond to T-Mobile pricing anytime soon:
quote:
"We will react rationally and where we think we need to react," Shammo said at the Jefferies Technology, Media and Telecom Conference. "The key to any competitive move is not to overreact to a competitor. "I guess you could accuse us of not moving fast enough," he said, but he added that Verizon needs to take measured moves "because once you make the move you can't go back."
Verizon's large enough, and dominates so much of the retail and special access market (not to mention their spectrum holdings) that the company knows T-Mobile's disruption can only go so far. Still, Verizon's long-standing belief that their network quality and coverage is simply so superior the company doesn't have to compete on price -- is pretty clearly going to be tested.

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elefante72

join:2010-12-03
East Amherst, NY

Verizon coverage is great, pricing is the same...

But AT&T is catching up. They also have the benefit of being a GSM provider and that means easy time w/ MVNO networks...

The most irritating thing about Verizon is their iron fist approach to controlling handsets. Even today no Verizon MVNO has access to LTE networks, and their are just skeleton phones that are still around that are 3G. Outside of the iphones, verizon handsets are close proprietary POS. I'll never go back to a Verizon droid.

No I simply slam the UICC (SIM) of the day in my open androids and move on. Sure I may be a minority, but iphones aren't the only game in town.

Also Verizon's prices are not dramatically different than AT&T or Sprint. Even if you look at 3-4 users on TMO, Verizon pricing if you factor in subsidies isn't dramatically different.

The real games are happening in MVNO, and that is a place Verizon has decided to punt for now...

ArrayList
netbus developer
Premium
join:2005-03-19
Evanston, IL

Re: Verizon coverage is great, pricing is the same...

Verizon pricing is on the expensive end. I don't get what you mean that it is great.
--
A sane approach to our federal budget: Ignore the tea party
elefante72

join:2010-12-03
East Amherst, NY

Re: Verizon coverage is great, pricing is the same...

Well TMO is losing money VZ not. So there is a cost to that. If you compare 4 phones, family line there is probably no more than $5-$10 difference between these guys. I can't say that for certain, because they all use their spin but in the end of the day it's all really the same. Sure if you look @ the service price of TMO it looks lower, but then you have to buy a phone. Add $20-$30 per line in subsidized cost and see how they line up.

I won't even get into the coverage, because that isn't even close. TMO is like swiss cheese in the NE, Sprint is slightly better. Only AT&T and Verizon have the coverage.

I had TMO and TMO MVNO. Just as long as you stayed in metro borders its aok. Once you are out, forget it. Dialup.

AT&T more than anyone else is making strides, Verizon is definitely the last mover on this because they are #1. They know they can hold out.. With people locked up in family plans they know it will take years to affect major shifts.

In any case I have spoken to dozens of friends out of or near ending contracts and there is a "fear" of switching carriers. It's some irrational thing, but these people are the rule not the exception. Even if I explain they can save thousands and demonstrate it, it just doesn't sink in. People are loath to change something that is working.
BosstonesOwn

join:2002-12-15
Wakefield, MA
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

Re: Verizon coverage is great, pricing is the same...

4 phones on VZW with my 25% discount was 240 same on tmo now is 120... how is this even close ? and 2 regular phones and 2 smart phones. I purchased my tmo phones but tmo bought my old VZW phones for more then I could get on the web. And Im paying $30 a month for 2 note 3's... 150 a month total versus 240 ? Im ok with that.. not to mention unlimited lte and teather... again im ok with that.
--
"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!"

MovieLover76

join:2009-09-11
kudos:1

Re: Verizon coverage is great, pricing is the same...

Yea, T-mobile is much cheaper and I won't pretend that the coverage is the same, but you need to realize that while t-mobile's coverage map may not be perfect they have very good coverage in the most populous areas. That may not be good enough for someone in upstate NY or any other less populated area. They are much better off on AT&T or Verizon. But when you live in Central NJ , really anywhere from DC to MA on the east coast T-mobile has really good coverage.
I never have any problems.

It's all about location when it comes to coverage, Verizon does happen to provide stronger coverage if your looking at the entire nation but most people are only concerned about they areas they actually frequently travel.
And T-mobile prices are a lot lower than Verizon and they still offer unlimited data, for many that option alone blows Verizon out of the water.
itguy05

join:2005-06-17
Carlisle, PA
quote:
Well TMO is losing money VZ not. So there is a cost to that.
They lost millions on revenue of Billions and have Billions in the bank. They are loosing money mainly because they are pumping tons into the network upgrading from 2G or 1G to LTE. There is a cost to that and while Verizon did it over a couple years with 100 million or so footing the bill, T-Mobile is doing it in less than 2 years with, what 40 million forting the bill. So a short term loss is fine.

And FYI, Amazon has consistently lost money since they were founded....
captinkirk

join:2012-12-12
Bourbonnais, IL
Reviews:
·CenturyLink
Yep Verizon's pricing is at least 100 dollars more expensive than T mobile. If I move my 3 Iphones w/ 8 gigs of data Unlimited talk and text over from Verizon to t mobile, I save 100 a month. I pay 250 with VZ and with T mobile I pay 150. I would have already jumped ship if it wasn't for this contract I have 6 months left on.

I also called VZ to see if I could get a price brake over what T Mobile and and ATT has been offering as was told that the only way I could get the new pricing was to upgrade my handset and join the edge program or go pound sand.

I am perfectly content with my phones and don't want to upgrade. And when I am done with my contract they dont want to give me any incentives to stay or decrease my bill so VZ, dont let the door hit you where the good lord split ya.

I'll just pop a T mobile sim and go on my way. VZ try's to use their network as a major selling point but that's not the case anymore as Both ATT and T mobile now covers 96 percent of America. Where I am at, Both cover fine and I can deal with a dropped call or two from time to time. I just dont like VZ's treatment of good paying customers and lack of response to the market place. People remember stuff like this and it resignations for a long time when your treated like crap, and like another number.

Anon92835

@50.180.37.x

Re: Verizon coverage is great, pricing is the same...

Something sounds off about those numbers. If you pay $250 for what you've got, then there's something you're not telling us. 3 smart phones on 8 GB of data is 40+40+40+90 = $210 per month. So where is the extra $40 coming from? If it's taxes and fees, you'll have those on T-Mobile as well. If it's insurance then don't forget to factor that in as well.

Don't get me wrong, T-Mobile does have cheaper pricing, I'm not disputing that. I'm just pointing out that you have to compare apples-to-apples here.

Also, definitely check to see if your Verizon iPhone will work on T-Mobile. I'm not sure which models are GSM-compatible, or if there are any catches (like having to get Verizon to unlock it first, assuming it would work).

Tomek
Premium
join:2002-01-30
Valley Stream, NY

Re: Verizon coverage is great, pricing is the same...

taxes?
turnerbrewer

join:2011-11-22
I will be leaving Verizon when my contract is up this year. Verizon is too expensive compared to other carriers. I might even go with Straightalk which is considerably cheaper and uses Verizons network.
boredsysadm

join:2012-01-11

Re: Verizon coverage is great, pricing is the same...

Straight Talk is NOT Verizon MVNO. They use mostly t-mobile and in some cases AT&T (or at-least used to)
QLR

join:2009-06-23
Tallahassee, FL

Re: Verizon coverage is great, pricing is the same...

It depends on the area. In my city, I can choose between T-mobile, Verizon, and Sprint. Some areas are Verizon only, some are AT&T a only. But they seem to prefer T-mobile, though.

MovieLover76

join:2009-09-11
kudos:1

Re: Verizon coverage is great, pricing is the same...

They offer like one or two Verizon phones. like the LG Optimus Zip
if you look at their phones for sale they are the ones with the Red Verizon coverage map logo which says Nationwide coverage on America's largest most reliable network. (that's the only phone option for verizon)

They do seem to have a bring your own CDMA phone option, not sure if that is Verizon or Sprint coverage though.
QLR

join:2009-06-23
Tallahassee, FL

Re: Verizon coverage is great, pricing is the same...

Yes. My sister in law used a Verizon branded device on Straight Talk. I think she paid a one time fee to do so.

Some of the iPhones are Verizon based.

jhern

@172.56.14.x
I was Vz customer for 14 yrs and they couldnt give me a deal after unlimited everything discontinued.$140 for 3 phones was ridiculous for calls only.Texting and web was extra.Currently paying 186 for 3 phones 2 unlimited everything and one 3gb on month to month.When 17% government employee discount kicks in next month I'll be saving even more.Vz didnt care if I left so f them to the fullest.
psiu

join:2004-01-20
Farmington, MI
Reviews:
·Comcast
·AT&T U-Verse
said by elefante72:

The most irritating thing about Verizon is their iron fist approach to controlling handsets. Even today no Verizon MVNO has access to LTE networks, and their are just skeleton phones that are still around that are 3G. Outside of the iphones, verizon handsets are close proprietary POS. I'll never go back to a Verizon droid.

No I simply slam the UICC (SIM) of the day in my open androids and move on. Sure I may be a minority, but iphones aren't the only game in town.

Do you mean all the SIM unlocked (by FCC decree) global ready handsets Verizon offers? Because their phones are more ready to go than a carrier locked AT&T or T-MO variant...

(notwithstanding the unlocked global ready phones of the past I've collected, still have my Moto Z6c in use with a family member, and an HTC Trophy unlocked I keep around for emergencies)

(also... "slam the UICC (SIM) of the day" ?? C'mon, if you want to slam the knowledge around, realize that CDMA handsets were equally capable of using UICC cards, that 'SIM' cards were only for 2G phones (USIM for UMTS, CSIM for CDMA), and of course that things have changed on Verizon over the last 5 years.)

MVNO's are nice and all, but some people need reliability: »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Un···perators
QLR

join:2009-06-23
Tallahassee, FL
Reviews:
·Comcast
Although their 3G and 2G devices are locked, the LTE phones are unlocked (well, to the point where you can use a GSM company's service). Even the Verizon iPhone ( model 5 and later, if I'm not mistaken) comes unlocked.

Agree with you on the MVNOs Verizon does not want to play. If you want LTE on Verizon, it will be via a credit check and/or contract.

dnoyeB
Ferrous Phallus

join:2000-10-09
Southfield, MI
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Comcast

Wink and nod

Sounds like 'Hey T-Mobile, were not lowering our prices. Feel free to raise yours a bit.' He probably should have mentioned tmobiles huge advertising budget and his expectation that they could not maintain their ridiculously low prices for long.
--
dnoyeB
"Then said I, Wisdom [is] better than strength: nevertheless the poor man's wisdom [is] despised, and his words are not heard. " Ecclesiastes 9:16
danielholt

join:2013-04-22
Wake Forest, NC

Watch the twittersphere

John Legere's public reaction to Verizon's PR in 3..... 2.....
tmc8080

join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY
Reviews:
·ooma
·Optimum Online
·Verizon FiOS

translation

put up the same number of towers (read coverage) and then try competing on price.. that's the basic message. tmobile has nowhere near the same coverage as Verizon OR At&T nationwide, and that's the main problem. You could give away service for free.. but that won't pull the majority of customers away from the big carriers if you can't use the service everywhere it needs to be.. ditto for Sprint and the rest of the minority carriers.

tmobile should know by now that paying ETFs and doing very little trying to compete on the margins while not making a network as widespread as Verizon or AT&T would ultimately be a losing strategy. deeper cuts on price and an expanding cell network coverage are BOTH needed to net customers which end up sticking around-- otherwise they can take their pick of the MVNOs when they figure out Tmobile is doing too little of the following: expanding the network, dropping prices, providing high quality service & customer service.
Mr Matt

join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom
·Embarq Now Centu..
·Comcast
·CenturyLink

Re: translation

said by tmc8080:

put up the same number of towers (read coverage) and then try competing on price.

How quickly one forgets. When the cellular systems were established in the early 80's, there were two licenses issued in each city. The A block and the B block. In the case of South Florida we had Cellular 1 and BellSouth Mobility assigned each block. Over the last 30+ years, through acquisitions and mergers in many cities all the original cellular frequencies in the valuable 800MHz band wound up assigned to one carrier whether it be Verizon or AT&T. In some cases one tower constructed by Cellular 1 was so close to a tower constructed by Bellsouth, one of the towers were decommissioned or sold. Those towers were acquired at legacy pricing. Verizon acquires NYNEX and XXX Cellular towers are thrown in for good measure. AT&T wound up getting all of the Cingular towers when they acquired Cingular. The only new tower construction occurred in rural areas or growing urban or suburban areas.
Expand your moderator at work

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK

Re: translation

I think the problem comes is who does T-Mobile get their backhaul from. Guess what, they usually have to buy it from the incumbent.... their direct competitor.
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
BosstonesOwn

join:2002-12-15
Wakefield, MA
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

Re: translation

tmo has been purchasing from other providers, the loop is maintained by the incumbent, but if any of the incumbents steps on the loop and doesn't hit the SLA there are steep penalties. Having worked doing those negotiations I can tell ya the incumbent would be stupid to step on a loop. It would cost them more money then they take in. Plus the government fines on top of the service penalties.
--
"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!"

scott2020

join:2008-07-20
MO

Proactive

Why not be proactive instead of reactive? How about doing something that really shakes things up and is a win-win for you and your customers? Oh yeah, because you made 3 billion dollars in profit last quarter and don't give a damn about anything else.

T-mob will never catch verizon, and they are a gnat on big red's ass. Verizon has the coverage, speed, spectrum, lobbying power, and everything else. T-mobile has EDGE speed from 1999 in most of it's network, if you can find a signal.
--
+++ATH0

dr3yec

join:2002-12-19
00000

1 recommendation

No to all of the above

Three companies that I wouldnt have in my house or life . AT&T , Verizon, and Comcast .

SrsBsns

join:2001-08-30
Oklahoma City, OK

T-Mobile Rocks!

This kind of attitude from Verizon shows we don't need anymore mergers as they feel they already don't need to compete on pricing. Take my city for example. Oklahoma City has about 40 less thousand people than Seattle and is as large as Los Angeles.

Verizon LTE tops out at a paltry 9 Mbit on most days. Had several people test. T-mobile is completely smoking every other carrier. I see 30-60 depending on where you are. On the low side its about 20 Mbit.

T-mobile has HD voice turned on and its stunning.

From a coverage standpoint its fantastic in the city. Oklahoma has two real major area's, OKC and Tulsa. Both have LTE and HSPA+42. The only downside to T-Mobile in this state is the connecting interstates are still EDGE.

Most everyone I know stays or travels to one of the two metros. Even if the coverage outside is EDGE it will soon change as T-Mobile is upgrading all EDGE towers to LTE.

Unlimited everything with no caps or throttling + my employer discount. Upgrade every 6 months if I don't decide to BYOD. My bill is $67 after taxes and fees.

I will be with team TMO for a long time.
openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2

Re: T-Mobile Rocks!

How's coverage outside of those two metros and away from the interstate highways?

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK

Re: T-Mobile Rocks!

It drops off a lot, but I've found that even off the interstates, on regular state highways the coverage is still good. For example I can stream music from youtube while driving on T-Mobile all the way up 75 and into other smaller towns, but once you really go out into the rural areas it goes bye bye fast.

I still consider it excellent value, and I can still text out in the boonies so I'm satisfied. I have found dead zones, they do exist, but overall it's not bad at all. In the two years I've had T-Mobile now I've noticed several "dead zones" now have signal and areas that were marginal now have HSPA+ and you can surf the net on the phone where as before you could not.

--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
sonicmerlin

join:2009-05-24
Cleveland, OH
kudos:1
I don't really understand why people think 9 Mbps, on wireless of all things, is paltry.
BiggA

join:2005-11-23
EARTH

AT&T, not T-Mobile

Verizon doesn't compete with T-Mobile. They compete with AT&T. AT&T is the only other carrier that has the coverage to compete.

Tomek
Premium
join:2002-01-30
Valley Stream, NY

Poor experience with smartphones

The only reason why I jumped TMO in favor of VZ was phone. Droid 4 to be exact. However, verizon proved to be difficult to work with. Insanely long "certification" process, locked bootloaders and excessive amount of crapware installed on phones.
My contract ended so I will go back to T-Mobile where I can get UNLOCKED global phones
--
Semper Fi
itguy05

join:2005-06-17
Carlisle, PA

Bye Bye Verizon

When your churn is up and net adds are down you should work on something like pricing.

Ported over to T-Mobile from Verizon Saturday after a month of testing. Yes, the signal is not as far reaching, yes there is EDGE and GPRS. But for saving $10-15/mo I can deal with it.

Took a trip this Sunday "outside of town" and while signal was somewhat spotty in the boonies, I had no issues navigating with Waze and looking things up. Heck, in one spot I had full signal while the wife on Verizon was at 1-2 bars.

Oh, and for those that think Verizon is infallible - I can take you places 10 minutes away from here where there is 0 Verizon service. Everyone has dead spots. T-Mobile is working on the network. They missed out on many years right around the 3G transition by halting network upgrades during the time AT&T tried to buy them. This new management team seems to be serious about upgrades and is getting them done quickly.

jseymour

join:2009-12-11
Waterford, MI

I Like Verizon Well Enough, But...

I administer the wireless plan at work, and we're on VZW. Great coverage. Great service. Have no complaints. But, for myself? T-Mobile. There's no way I can justify Verizon's prices.

Just did a quick price check: VZW: Two Moto X's, 1GB shared data plan: $120 + taxes and surcharges. TMO: Two pre-owned HTC Sensation 4G's, 1GB per line 4G, unlimited 2G: $80 + taxes and surcharges. Plus we get a boatload of freebies and discounted additional services with TMO.

Sorry, VZW: You're too expensive for us.

Jim
tim tim tim

join:2010-08-14
Lutz, FL
kudos:2

Tried all of the major carriers

with my company and personal phones. I have tried ATT, Verizon, tmobile and sprint. There is really no comparison between verizon and the others (in the Tampa Bay area anyways). Right now, I am testing tmobile on an iphone 5s and I find the service to be terrible. I drop several calls per day, calls inside of buildings are of terrible quality and often are the ones dropped. with my verizon Iphone or galaxy s5 I VERY rarely have signal issues. The call quality is exponentially better as well.

ATT is the closes to verizon in my opinion but still not up to their level.
GraysonPeddi
Grayson Peddie

join:2010-06-28
Tallahassee, FL

Interstate between Tallahassee and Orlando

I would like to see more HSPA+ towers put in an interstate between Tallahassee, FL and Orlando, FL.

Or are there any alternatives to T-Mobile for those who likes to use lots of data but does not care to talk in the phone (I use Google Voice to keep the same phone number regardless of carrier since phone number portability is not that easy)? Lack of coverage between Tallahassee and Gainesville is the reason why I am having trouble utilizing 5GB of data allowance. Especially if I want to watch some YouTube videos. I'm paying $30/month with 100 voice minutes, which is plenty enough for my hearing impairment.
--
Phone: Yealink SIP-T22P + CSipSimple in Optimus V
Phone System: Asterisk 10.1; Server: Debian Sid+Exp

I'm in heaven with VoIP except for 3G wireless.