  RobIn Deo speramus, God Bless the USAPremium
join:2001-08-25
Kendall, FL
kudos:2
1 edit | I agree.. A lot of people bought the iPhone from AT&T at the subsidized price of $199. Then they paid the ETF of $175, then turned around and sold the iPhone on ebay or craigslist for $600+.
So yea, I think they are doubling the ETF to prevent this from happening with the Droid.
Bad move, IMO.
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CheckSite.us | YourIP.us | Reverseip.us | |
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 | | | Re: I agree.. said by Rob:A lot of people bought the iPhone from AT&T at the subsidized price of $199. Then they paid the ETF of $175, then turned around and sold the iPhone on ebay or craigslist for $600+. So yea, I think they are doubling the ETF to prevent this from happening with the Droid. Bad move, IMO. I never thought of it that way... It still sucks that there is an ETF and that they are doubling it. People who are buying smart phones are paying a premium on data services so Verizon is already making extra off them.
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The early bird catches the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
CPL:IA;ASEL/AMEL. CFI:ASE/AME; IA | |
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| | | | Re: I agree.. If someone owns a phone for 1 month, Verizon doesn't make a hefty premium on them.
To me it would seem to be the other way around - i.e. the ETF is necessary so that they don't lose that upcharge over the duration of the contract. | |
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| | | | said by snipper_cr:said by Rob:A lot of people bought the iPhone from AT&T at the subsidized price of $199. Then they paid the ETF of $175, then turned around and sold the iPhone on ebay or craigslist for $600+. So yea, I think they are doubling the ETF to prevent this from happening with the Droid. Bad move, IMO. I never thought of it that way... It still sucks that there is an ETF and that they are doubling it. People who are buying smart phones are paying a premium on data services so Verizon is already making extra off them. Not if the user cancels and pays the ETF within the first few months, which is what this is designed to prevent. | |
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|  NOCManMacChatterPremium
join:2004-09-30
Colorado Springs, CO | It's the wrong move. If you cancel the contract you must return the phone or pay the balance up to the full retail cost of the phone.
Pay 200 + 200 ETF and the phone is 600 full retail. You owe 200 more.
It's even more ironclad, you get the phone back, refurb and resell. | |
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| |  CheesePremium
join:2003-10-26
Naples, FL
kudos:1 | Re: I agree.. said by NOCMan:It's the wrong move. If you cancel the contract you must return the phone or pay the balance up to the full retail cost of the phone. Pay 200 + 200 ETF and the phone is 600 full retail. You owe 200 more. It's even more ironclad, you get the phone back, refurb and resell. Who says you must return the phone? Is this in the contract? Obviously, people are doing it so it must not be. | |
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| | | NOCManMacChatterPremium
join:2004-09-30
Colorado Springs, CO | Re: I agree.. I worded that wrong. I meant to say if you cancel the line, then you should be required to return the phone. It completely eliminates the scam. Though people will cry foul about their personal information being on the phone.
Still if you cancel and want to keep the phone, pony up the full retail cost.
I'm against ETF's generally, especially for things like cable contracts where you return the equipment. I can understand a reasonable processing fee, but nailing people for money because they're leaving your service because of whatever issues is just plain wrong. | |
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| | | | CheesePremium
join:2003-10-26
Naples, FL
kudos:1 | Re: I agree.. said by NOCMan:I worded that wrong. I meant to say if you cancel the line, then you should be required to return the phone. It completely eliminates the scam. Though people will cry foul about their personal information being on the phone. Still if you cancel and want to keep the phone, pony up the full retail cost. I'm against ETF's generally, especially for things like cable contracts where you return the equipment. I can understand a reasonable processing fee, but nailing people for money because they're leaving your service because of whatever issues is just plain wrong. Agreed on all points. | |
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| | | | | | said by NOCMan:Still if you cancel and want to keep the phone, pony up the full retail cost. The retail "cost" is inflated. Most items sold in stores are sold at twice the price, often more, that the store paid for them. And many online stores manage to sell at half the suggested retail price and still turn a profit. | |
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|  C0deZer0Oc'D To Rhythm And PolicePremium
join:2001-10-03
Davenport, FL | Except that the iPhone is sold as a GSM phone, which meant it could be unlocked and used on another carrier, or even another account with AT&T.
You have no such benefit on CDMA networks like Verizon's.
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Front Line Force Fortress Forever | |
|
| Reviews:
 ·Comcast
| Actually, why is it a bad move?
Consider the original (classic) Storm, their cheapest subsidized touch-screen smartphone ($50 with a two-year contract). At that price, the Storm is cheaper than a lot of VZW's own dumbphones! (And it's also cheaper than the Droid.) Some of their other BlackBerries are even cheaper.
So this move has nit to do with the Droid (or the recently-released Storm2), but more a move to prevent general smartphone-churn, andd sensible from a business POV. | |
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| | bn1221
join:2009-04-29
Cortland, NY | Re: I agree.. And you pay 29.99 a month for data on the Blackberry. VZ won't activate even a retail bought BB without the data fee. Thats a real scam RIM and VZ get you on. | |
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| | | Reviews:
·Comcast
| Re: I agree.. said by bn1221:And you pay 29.99 a month for data on the Blackberry. VZ won't activate even a retail bought BB without the data fee. Thats a real scam RIM and VZ get you on. Why do most folks buy a smartphone (any smartphone)? For data usage. Considering that VZW also has pay-as-you-use data plans, this also prevents anyone using a smartphone without a real need (don't other providers do the same thing with their smartphones, including AT&T Mobility with the iPhone?).
You want a smartphone; however, you don't want the provider making ANYTHING off you using the smartphone's features (most of which, more often than not, require that you use the provider's network). I don't have major data needs; however, when I DO use the provider of choice's network (since I have said quite plainly that VZW suits my needs/requirements in terms of voice, data, AND smartphone choice options), I most certainly expect to have to pay for using VZW's network. However, I have three different options even with VZW (since my data needs are miniscule):
1. Per-month data billing.
2. Daily when-I-need-it data billing.
3. Byte-allowance billing.
Considering that I would almost certainly prefer a smartphone with wifi (and VZW now offers several), and my biggest smartphone use would be sync with a desktop or portable PC, I would most likely choose options #2 or #3, since I am not one of those that uses a smartphone as a PC substitute! | |
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| | | | bn1221
join:2009-04-29
Cortland, NY | Re: I agree.. Sorry - you missed what I was saying. I have a ton of 8830s that I want to give away so people can use the full text keyboard for texting. Verizon will not let me put a voice and text plan on it unless I pay for the data as well. I don't need data on them. | |
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| | | | | Reviews:
·Comcast
| Re: I agree.. So your complaint is that you can't usde a smartphone as a dumbphone (you got attracted because the smartphone is cheaper than the dumbphone), without realizing that there is going to be a *gotcha* in there somewhere. In what way is that VZW's fault?
If you are still stuck with one or more of those 8830s, PM me and we can exchange information (I'm a VZW customer, and have nary a quibble paying for a data plan that I would actually use). | |
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| | | | | | bn1221
join:2009-04-29
Cortland, NY | Re: I agree.. My complaint is I upgraded to Curve - which are awesome. The 8830 is a great phone but I cannot just give them a way as dumbphones. It just seems odd to me that an off contract phone cannot have a downgraded plan. I'm PMing you my info if you really want an 8830  | |
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| | | Reviews:
·Comcast
| Since you are complaining, here are current prices for VZW's wifi-ready BlackBerry smartphones (including the "infamous" $29.99 MONTHLY data plan):
Curve 8530: $99.99
Tour 9630: $149.99
Storm2 9550: $179.99
Monthly charges:
Nationwide Connect (450 plan minutes + 5 F&F + unlimited nights/weekends + unlimited VZW-to-VZW): $59.99
Unlimited E-Mail and Web for BlackBerry: $29.99
Note that is $89.98 for my second-worst monthly plan choice, as I don't need another e-mail address (however, one is generally included with any smartphone, so you're stuck with it whether you want one or not). Unlimited Web *is* included (however, I'm not one to download videos, even viral ones, and especially NOT to a smartphone).
What's the beef?
Because both e-mail *and* Web are included, I can deal with weblinks included in mail.
I can live with this. | |
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| | | | bn1221
join:2009-04-29
Cortland, NY | Re: I agree.. I am not complaining of the subsidy. What I as saying is I have many BBs purchased at FULL PRICE retail. I cannot use them as basic phones. That's my complain. I'm actually FOR Verizon subsiding and using ETFs | |
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 cdruGo ColtsPremium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:5
 ·Frontier FiOS
| Lease only I'm suprised they don't do what Toyota/Lexus is doing with the LFA, only "selling" it at the end of the lease.
It's better for the phone companies to charge for the cell plan, an extra fee for data, more for unlimited texting, a monthly lease, then in the end make them pay even more for the phone. | |
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| | | Re: Lease only Wasn't there a company on here a while back that leased cell phones?
Does anyone remember the name of them? | |
|
 ptrowskiGot Helix?Premium
join:2005-03-14
Putnam, CT
kudos:4 | Great timing.... With the Droid right around the corner I would imagine that is why they did this. ETF's should be going down, not up. | |
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|  PathfinderDazed ConfusedPremium
join:2000-03-26
Mount Vernon, NY | Re: Great timing.... Agreed. Charge $599 for the phone and no ETF. | |
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| | | | Re: Great timing.... What does that accomplish? It essentially charges the ETF up front and raises the total price that most people would end up paying over the life of the phone. | |
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| | | PathfinderDazed ConfusedPremium
join:2000-03-26
Mount Vernon, NY | Re: Great timing.... The bitch here is that most posters don't want to be tied to a contract. So if they pay full price up front they are free to leave whenever they want. | |
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| | | wasn't there serious legal battles surrounding ETF's, if I recall correctly?
meanwhile, that droid is in no way worth 350$, it's like a $175 actual retail value phone. The new processor actually is cheaper to make than the old one, not more expensive. This is like switching something that costs you $10 for something that costs you $5, but charging $20. | |
|
 Mike_
join:2003-06-24
Fort Lauderdale, FL | Lame Lmao, talk about being scared of people leaving? What do they expect people are actually not going to like "the network".. How could that be?
/sarcasm
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If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Unless you know what you're doing. | |
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|  Romney2012Defeat Obama 2012-Chg we can believe inPremium
join:2002-03-03
USA
kudos:4
1 edit | Re: Lame said by Mike_:Lmao, talk about being scared of people leaving? What do they expect people are actually not going to like "the network".. How could that be? /sarcasm It is more about protecting against fraudsters looking to make a quick buck by flipping the phone and selling at a profit and not REAL customers who will stay or go based on service quality.
»I agree..
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My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page
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| | ptrowskiGot Helix?Premium
join:2005-03-14
Putnam, CT
kudos:4 Reviews:
 ·VOIPo
| Re: Lame said by Romney2012:said by Mike_:Lmao, talk about being scared of people leaving? What do they expect people are actually not going to like "the network".. How could that be? /sarcasm It is more about protecting against fraudsters looking to make a quick buck by flipping the phone and selling at a profit and not REAL customers who will stay or go based on service quality. » I agree.. VZ gets their initial fees, and they get an ETF. I don't see they really "hurting" in that situation, subsidized phone or not.
--
"So, Lone Starr, now you see that evil will always triumph because good is dumb."
Have you been touched by his noodly appendage? »www.venganza.org | |
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| | | dynodbPremium,VIP
join:2004-04-21
Minneapolis, MN | Re: Lame said by ptrowski:VZ gets their initial fees, and they get an ETF. I don't see they really "hurting" in that situation, subsidized phone or not. The non-subsidized price for the droid is $600 but they're selling for $200 after rebate and subsidy. If the $200 price + the old $175 ETF didn't cover the wholesale cost of the phone, they'd be losing money to people selling them on e-bay to make money.
With a $375 ETF plus the $200 price, they're coming in close to the retail price of the phone. Can't really blame them- why should they subsidize profits for people just out to sell the phone? | |
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| | | | ptrowskiGot Helix?Premium
join:2005-03-14
Putnam, CT
kudos:4 Reviews:
·VOIPo
| Re: Lame said by dynodb:said by ptrowski:VZ gets their initial fees, and they get an ETF. I don't see they really "hurting" in that situation, subsidized phone or not. The non-subsidized price for the droid is $600 but they're selling for $200 after rebate and subsidy. If the $200 price + the old $175 ETF didn't cover the wholesale cost of the phone, they'd be losing money to people selling them on e-bay to make money. With a $375 ETF plus the $200 price, they're coming in close to the retail price of the phone. Can't really blame them- why should they subsidize profits for people just out to sell the phone? So that is the price VZ is getting them for? Doubtful.
--
"So, Lone Starr, now you see that evil will always triumph because good is dumb."
Have you been touched by his noodly appendage? »www.venganza.org | |
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| | | | | dynodbPremium,VIP
join:2004-04-21
Minneapolis, MN | Re: Lame said by ptrowski:So that is the price VZ is getting them for? Doubtful. I don't know what they're paying for them, but it's no doubt less than $600. It's not at all hard to believe that they might be paying more than $375 though. | |
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| | | | | | ptrowskiGot Helix?Premium
join:2005-03-14
Putnam, CT
kudos:4 Reviews:
·VOIPo
| Re: Lame said by dynodb:said by ptrowski:So that is the price VZ is getting them for? Doubtful. I don't know what they're paying for them, but it's no doubt less than $600. It's not at all hard to believe that they might be paying more than $375 though. I would be extremely surprised if it was. My guess, and it is only a guess, is that they get them at a much lower price than $375.
--
"So, Lone Starr, now you see that evil will always triumph because good is dumb."
Have you been touched by his noodly appendage? »www.venganza.org | |
|
| | | | | | | | | Re: Lame It doesn't matter what they pay wholesale for the phone. What matters is their expected revenue over the contract period. If ebay flippers are substantially decreasing that then there's the rationale behind the increased ETF. | |
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| | | |  RARPSL
join:1999-12-08
Suffern, NY | said by dynodb:said by ptrowski:VZ gets their initial fees, and they get an ETF. I don't see they really "hurting" in that situation, subsidized phone or not. The non-subsidized price for the droid is $600 but they're selling for $200 after rebate and subsidy. If the $200 price + the old $175 ETF didn't cover the wholesale cost of the phone, they'd be losing money to people selling them on e-bay to make money. With a $375 ETF plus the $200 price, they're coming in close to the retail price of the phone. Can't really blame them- why should they subsidize profits for people just out to sell the phone? If the non-subsidized cost is $600 and the subsidized and rebated cost is $200 (with a 2 year contract) with a $375 EFT, the monthly reduction should be $15.65 not just $10 (ie: It should go down based on how long you have paid under the contract so the EFT is fully paid off at the end of the contract - At $10 a month, you still owe $145 after 23 months). The supposed reason for an EFT is to pay back the unearned subsidized discount you got by not buying at the full price. | |
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| | | Chaldo
join:2008-03-18
West Bloomfield, MI | said by ptrowski:said by Romney2012:said by Mike_:Lmao, talk about being scared of people leaving? What do they expect people are actually not going to like "the network".. How could that be? /sarcasm It is more about protecting against fraudsters looking to make a quick buck by flipping the phone and selling at a profit and not REAL customers who will stay or go based on service quality. » I agree.. VZ gets their initial fees, and they get an ETF. I don't see they really "hurting" in that situation, subsidized phone or not. It's because Verizon can't stand it when ANYONE makes a single buck of them. They want to rule your money, and give you nothing in advantages besides service in return. This type of stuff is way easier on GSM and happens so much more with GSM carriers, then Verizon. Trust me Verizon does not have a big issue with this. Yes I know GSM is used way more then CDMA. The problem is they can control it better on CDMA. Verizon closes any holes that are an advantage to customers, that's just how they roll. | |
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| |  NOVA_GuyObamaCare Kills AmericansPremium
join:2002-03-05 | How is paying an activation fee, paying for a phone, then paying an early termination fee being fraudulent? Perhaps it's gaming the system a little, but those who are clever enough to do so should not be punished for it. | |
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| | |
See 19 replies to this post |
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| | |
| | | | How is gaming the system (legally) fraud? Like the iPhone 3GS, it only costs $179 to make (»mytriniphone.com/blog/2009/06/co···3gs-179/). If Apple doubled the cost to ATT that is only $358. In addition, most wireless companies buy phones in the 10s of thousands and receive a substantial bulk discount. With ETFs, the only people making out are the wireless companies. | |
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| | | PathfinderDazed ConfusedPremium
join:2000-03-26
Mount Vernon, NY Reviews:
·RoadRunner Cable
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Lame According to your article
" These estimates do not include other charges, such as the costs to develop the iPhone’s software, shipping and distribution, packaging, royalty fees and miscellaneous accessories included with each iPhone."
$359 is not very unreasonable. It may be on the cheap side. | |
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| |  RickNYPremium
join:2000-11-02
Manorville, NY
·Optimum Online
| said by Romney2012:It is more about protecting against fraudsters looking to make a quick buck by flipping the phone and selling at a profit and not REAL customers who will stay or go based on service quality. What exactly is fraudulent about that? There is absolutely nothing fraudulent -- the original buyer performed in accordance with the legally binding contract -- where is the fraud? | |
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tlkudoPremium
join:2007-09-20
Fort Pierce, FL | Business as usual If all they're worried about is people terminating and then selling the phone for profit, then why not give the option to return it and avoid paying an ETF?
Oh wait, that's right, this is really about pissing on customers and telling them it's raining.
I seem to remember that the ETFs were chopped across the industry as a way of saying "hey FCC, we're fixing everything on our own, see? No need for regulation. Everybody just move along." Now that the flavor of the day has moved on to something else, it's back to business as usual for ETFs. | |
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|  NiarlanExcelsiorPremium
join:2002-11-09
Manville, NJ | Re: Business as usual So it would be better for the company to take back the phone after 4 months so they can do what? Sell it to another user as new?
Nia | |
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| | tlkudoPremium
join:2007-09-20
Fort Pierce, FL | Re: Business as usual said by Niarlan:So it would be better for the company to take back the phone after 4 months so they can do what? Sell it to another user as new? Nia This would stop abuse of the current ETF, which is the reason cited for doubling it. So yes, it would be better for Verizon to take back the phone. Remember, if you're terminating after 4 months, it's usually because of a problem you have with the service.
Refurbish the phone, and sell it again. | |
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| | |  dvd536as Mr. Pink as they comePremium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
kudos:4 | Re: Business as usual said by tlkudo:said by Niarlan:So it would be better for the company to take back the phone after 4 months so they can do what? Sell it to another user as new? Nia Remember, if you're terminating after 4 months, it's usually because of a problem you have with the service. Making money off unhappy subs.
isn't big business great!
--
When I gez aju zavateh na nalechoo more new yonooz tonigh molinigh - Ken Lee | |
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 rudnickePremium
join:2004-10-23
Rantoul, IL
kudos:1 | Contract So it his a change in contract? Does this mean someone can escape from their contract without paying the ETF?
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One Big Ass Mistake America | |
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| ptrowskiGot Helix?Premium
join:2005-03-14
Putnam, CT
kudos:4 Reviews:
·VOIPo
| Re: Contract said by rudnicke:So it his a change in contract? Does this mean someone can escape from their contract without paying the ETF? Looks like for new customers.
--
"So, Lone Starr, now you see that evil will always triumph because good is dumb."
Have you been touched by his noodly appendage? »www.venganza.org | |
|
 Simba7I Void Warranties
join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT | What a ripoff.. So.. They're doubling the ETF rates? Why?
1. The technology is CDMA. Which means if the phone is blacklisted, it can't be used at all. I bumped into this on my first 6800, but the person was decent enough to replace it with one that does work.
..as for GSM, which you could unlock the phone and shove in a prepaid/contract SIM card.
2. Are they already screwing people for going over their 5GB cap? If the ETF ever went up, I'd expect that cap GONE.
This.. is yet another reason I will never switch over to Verizon.. I will keep Alltel until the towers get shut off.
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Bresnan 15M/1M|MyWS[P4HT@4.01GHz,2GB RAM,2x1TB HDDs,Win7]|WifeWS[P4@2.4GHz,1GB RAM,60GB HDD,Win7]|Router[2xP3@1GHz,640MB RAM,18GB HDD,Allied Telesyn AT-2560FX,Kingston KNE100TX,2xDigital DE504,Compaq NC3131,iPro/1000DP,Blitz BWI715,Gentoo Linux] | |
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| | | Re: What a ripoff.. You're worried about a 5GB cap? On a PHONE? If the cap was 5MB I'd be worried but not 5GB. | |
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| | Simba7I Void Warranties
join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT | Re: What a ripoff.. Obviously you don't use the amount of data I do. | |
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| | NOVA_GuyObamaCare Kills AmericansPremium
join:2002-03-05 | You obviously have not used some of these new smartphones. With streaming video and audio all day, one can go through 5GB in a month.
(I streamed audio through my iPhone all day at work when I was on AT&T to listen to music; now I do the same on Sprint with my Palm Pre.)
--
To all liberals: I am NOT one of your parents, so get the heck out of my wallet. It's time for you to grow up and take some personal responsibility for taking care of yourselves, which means not relying on the government to give it all to you. | |
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| | | ptrowskiGot Helix?Premium
join:2005-03-14
Putnam, CT
kudos:4 Reviews:
·VOIPo
| Re: What a ripoff.. said by NOVA_Guy:You obviously have not used some of these new smartphones. With streaming video and audio all day, one can go through 5GB in a month. (I streamed audio through my iPhone all day at work when I was on AT&T to listen to music; now I do the same on Sprint with my Palm Pre.) Exactly. Pandora on high quality audio can use a chunk of bandwidth. I am a nominal user and this week I used 433 MB.
--
"So, Lone Starr, now you see that evil will always triumph because good is dumb."
Have you been touched by his noodly appendage? »www.venganza.org | |
|
Reviews:
·Optimum Online
·Verizon FiOS
| inflated pricing Smart phones should not be $600.. they are ripping the consumer off.. the cost of making these devices since the iphone (gen2) have been cut by neary 30% and yet they still love these wack-job gouging prices! A top of the line smart phone should be $450, tops (with every possible feature you could imagine).. not $600+ yet, there are millions of people who keep falling for the higher prices scam all the time.
Also, in an industry which is seeing that $99 price tag of unlimited everything wireless (a rarity now), Verizon is a last hold-out at this high pricing for post paid accounts**. Leave it to someone to point out that Verizon has a majority interest in its wireless licenses/technology standard and deployed network to try to justify higher pricing... good luck!
Prepaid is the biggest growth in the wireless industry because of it's low pricing, yet the quality of the phones are terrible-- many of the lower quality phones are nearly featureless (compared with smart phones). | |
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|  danclan
join:2005-11-01
Midlothian, VA | Re: inflated pricing simply free the phones from the providers....that is to say...let the phone makers sell phones and the carriers sell air time...
then the phone will either sell on its own or fail...the european way works just fine and everyone makes money and there is competition....but thats just crazy talk here in the us with just 3-4 real nationwide carriers... | |
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| dynodbPremium,VIP
join:2004-04-21
Minneapolis, MN | We're not talking about a necessity here. The value of nearly any given item is what people are willing to pay for it. If enough people are buying at $600, then no, it's not a "scam", and it shouldn't be $450 "tops" regardless of what it cost to manufacture it. | |
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|  bjf123We Want... A ShrubberyPremium
join:2000-02-11
Hamilton, OH | said by tmc8080:Smart phones should not be $600.. they are ripping the consumer off.. the cost of making these devices since the iphone (gen2) have been cut by neary 30% and yet they still love these wack-job gouging prices! A top of the line smart phone should be $450, tops (with every possible feature you could imagine).. not $600+ yet, there are millions of people who keep falling for the higher prices scam all the time. Other than making sure the cost to manufacture doesn't exceed the selling price (and there are time when companies will intentionally do that), the selling price has nothing to do with the cost to produce. Right now, I'm wearing a limited edition Tag Heuer watch. At home, I've got watches by Rolex, Breitling, Oris, Ebel, and two other Tags. I also have a Citizen. The higher end watches cost anywhere from 10 to 25 times the price of the Citizen. Do they cost that much more to manufacture? Doubt it. They can get the higher prices because of a perceived value. It's the same with cell phones. If you don't think a particular phone is worth a certain amount, don't buy it. That's like me saying that I want a new Mercedes E Class, but only want to pay $30,000 for it. Not gonna happen.
--
Golf is a relatively simple game, played by reasonably intelligent people, stupidly.|In a Roadster club? | |
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| | why are people complaining? to all the verizon fanbois out there, you are never going to leave verizon anyway. if you are upset because now you can't make a profit off of the sale of your phone then find a new job! | |
|
| Reviews:
·Comcast
| Re: why are people complaining? easy way to profit , buy the phones , ink a family share plan 4 or 5 lines get 5 androids , wait a week swap them for cheesy phones and sell the contract on ebay for low cost.
Sell off the phones.
Profit still ad pass on the bill to the next guy.
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"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" | |
|
 GuspazGuspazPremium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:16 | Increasing it is justified My provider has an ETF of $500 for my iPhone contract (3 years).
Know why I don't see a problem? Because the retail price of the phone is $500 more than I paid. If I had bought the phone outright with no contract, I'd have paid $500 more. If I terminate my contract, I'd have paid $500.
Although, my contract is pro-rated after 50% through, I believe. Would have preferred if it started at the beginning, but meh.
My point is, the telco charges at retail what Apple charges them; as far as I know, there isn't a markup. If you cancel and pay an ETF that doesn't let them recoup the cost (as in, buy it and cancel immediately and pay the ETF), then they're losing money. | |
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 atuarreHere come the drumsPremium
join:2004-02-14
College Station, TX | RE I applaud Verizon for making this move. I really think the Storm 2 started this. You can look on e-Bay and see people auctioning off Storm 2's for 400+ when you can get them from Verizon for 175 if your a regular customer signing a contract or a VIP customer for 125.
The carrier is the one getting screwed here, and I think it is about time that they made this move.
One poster mentioned giving the device back. I do think AT&T implemented this for the iPhone where if you cancelled the contract not only were you responsible for the ETF but also the FULL retail cost of the phone, as it should be. | |
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·Comcast
| Re: RE said by atuarre:I applaud Verizon for making this move. I really think the Storm 2 started this. You can look on e-Bay and see people auctioning off Storm 2's for 400+ when you can get them from Verizon for 175 if your a regular customer signing a contract or a VIP customer for 125. Actually, I think the deep discounts for the Original (Classic) Storm (and other BBs) started this.
There are six BlackBerries that are $50 or less with a two-year contract.
THere are *two* different Android phones (one from Motorola, and one from HTC), with the HTC model $100 with a two-year contract. (HTC DROID ERIS: »www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/stor···eId=5070)
There are those that want to break carrier-exclusivity (and make a tidy profit) by selling their subsidized handset on eBay or craigslist (or even in the local paper), and now they are mad that their scheme has been rather neatly derailed. VZW (nor any other carrier) doesn't do handset-exclusivity deals for the customer to rip them off, people. | |
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| | Wrong again! You guys missed it, as usual. This has NOTHING to do with handset costs. I guarantee you that they wouldn't have had the ETF at $175 for so long if they were losing tons of money. Retail prices often have NOTHING to do with the actual price paid, especially for a big dog like Verizon. I would bet they are paying $250-$275 for the high-end handsets.
It has EVERYTHING to do with contracts. Verizon LOVES 2-year contracts. If you call up with a reception problem, their solution is a new handset and new 2-year contract. Fix the problem? HAHAHA! It's The Network (TM) -- how could there be a problem? A higher ETF keeps more people under contract -- right where Ivan wants you.
It wasn't until very recently that you could even start service without signing a contract EVEN IF YOU BROUGHT YOUR OWN VERIZON APPROVED HANDSET. The handset is how they lure people into the services they sell. It's like the free first hit. (and to many people a cell phone is crack). If you can buy a "compatible" handset on ebay, why sign a contract? You can start and stop service when you need/feel like it, or use it with a prepay and only use it when you need it. Prepaid/no-contract plans are growing in popularity and Verizon HATES that idea. | |
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Reviews:
·Suddenlink
·LINGO
·Earthlink Cable ..
| Cost of phone the cost of the phone is more than the parts just put into it for the people that can't understand manufacturing. In addition to the cost of parts to make the phone include labor, R&D, distribution, shipping, and advertisement. For the ones that say it doesn't cost that much you are not at all knowledgeable about this subject.
They must pay for all this and may even pay more for the parts because they don't just make all the parts for the phone themselves it's a lot of companies involved with making that phone. The cost is well past $450 to make a advance smart phone. You armchair amateurs need to take a course on business and manufacturing. | |
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| | | Re: Cost of phone said by marcusj3000:The cost is well past $450 to make a advance smart phone. You armchair amateurs need to take a course on business and manufacturing. What are you basing any of this on? I based my points on my experience in retail when I was younger. I was able to buy a limited amount of products "at cost" -- the cost of the store -- which was 1/2 the listed retail price. 100% markup is typical, although in some industries and with some products it is more.
I was able to find the HTC hero for sale in the UK for 321 british pounds, which converts to 532 US dollars. 1/2 of that is $266.
I found some analyst estimates that Apple has about $200 in parts in an iPhone. They also have software development and testing costs. As the number of devices sold increases, this cost decreases. Android makers have little software cost since Google provides Android for free. Yes, they have design and testing costs, but in the US there are few marketing costs since the carriers do most of the advertising. | |
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dvd536as Mr. Pink as they comePremium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
kudos:4 | So why? is the ETF only coming down $10/month instead of $14.58/month?
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10 * 24 = 240[who's pocketing that extra $110?]
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When I gez aju zavateh na nalechoo more new yonooz tonigh molinigh - Ken Lee | |
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| | | Re: So why? said by dvd536:is the ETF only coming down $10/month instead of $14.58/month? - 10 * 24 = 240[who's pocketing that extra $110?] Because it's about keeping customers under contract and profiting off ETFs, instead of just recovering costs. | |
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| | A more fair approach I think a more fair approach would have been to institute the following policy.
Leave the ETF at $175. But if you cancel your service within 6-months you must also pay back the difference between the price you paid for the phone and the retail price. I believe most of the online cell phone stores have had a policy like this for many years and they seem to work. | |
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| | verizon Ever heard of Cellswapper.com? It may be the only way out, | |
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| | Change in ETF, can I opt out now without penalty? does this increase an ETF's qualify as a change in the contract, so I can opt-out with no penalty? | |
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