Verizon Unhappy With Microsoft TV CodeSo they've decided to write much of their own ( old news - 01:58PM Thursday Sep 14 2006) tags: Video · hardwareTipped by Karl Bode  There's one thing most telcoTV deployments (both in the States and overseas) have in common, and that's Microsoft software. Microsoft will power IPTV efforts for Bell Canada, British Telecom, Reliance Infocomm, Swisscom, Telecom Italia, Deutsche Telecom's T-Online France, AT&T, BellSouth and Verizon. There were some early reports that Microsoft's solution was cumbersome & expensive, criticism Ed Graczyk, director of marketing for Microsoft TV, at the time blamed on faulty hardware & media "misinformation". Now come reports from the Wall Street Journal (reconstituted by Ars Technica for those without WSJ accounts) that Verizon, unhappy with Microsoft code and concerned about delays, has ditched some of Microsoft's code and has started writing their own. "Verizon planned to roll out its TV service in three phases, adding more features with each phase," notes the Journal. "But as the project progressed, Verizon encountered obstacles with the Microsoft code, largely because it tended to be too big and bulky to run in the hardware provided by Motorola. The report notes Verizon TV deployment is in its third phase of feature improvements: "Project Mercury."
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 hoyleysox
join:2003-11-07
Long Beach, CA | Bloated? Since when has microsoft writen bloated code? | |
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ff1324
Everybody Goes Home
Premium
join:2002-08-24
On Four Day
| Re: Bloated? said by hoyleysox :Since when has microsoft writen bloated code? 1975.
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The funny thing about firemen...night and day they're always firemen | |
| | | tmc8080
join:2004-04-24
Floral Park, NY | Re: Bloated? correction:
microsoft BOUGHT bloated code from IBM in early-mid 70s (dos/kernel) and wrote bloated code on top of it: WINDOWS, "TA-DA!" | |
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GlennAllen
join:2002-11-17
Richmond, VA | Re: Bloated? Correction: not from IBM, and not in 1975. | |
| | | | oldhand
Premium
join:2003-05-16
Saugus, MA
2 edits | tmc8080, please get your "facts" straight before posting. Microsoft did NOT buy DOS/kernel from IBM -- it bought the tiny Q-DOS operating system from Seattle Microsystems in the early 80's, modified it very slightly to produce DOS 1.0, and then licensed IBM to sell it as one of the available operating systems with the original IBM PC. Far from being bloated, it was designed to run in 64 KB of memory, and didn't even recognise directories or hard drives.
Windows ... is another story. | |
| | | | | tmc8080
join:2004-04-24
Floral Park, NY
| Re: Bloated? ibm controlled dos, period.. not some small seattle software company. regardless, microsoft had to obtain ALL the rights, licenses, and patents on the technology because they are integral to the KERNEL of development of the open-hardware ibm-at x86 base machines. for decades was "THE" operating system, until unix and later linux kernels become comparable clones to windows kernel. if you look at all of the documentaries on the birth of microsoft, bill gates bought the rights to dos from ibm, whether it was a puppet on a string company like seattle microsystems is irrelevant and beyond the point. much like one company who dominates in any technology, if you get the early rights, patents, licenses, then you win, or you can look at the whole blackberry debacle, on how to "do it wrong"...
in the "old days" computers were simple things and could not withstand 'bloated code' but, YES the ibm-pc was the most bloated system with LARGE PROPRIETARY PLUG-IN parts much like a jig-saw puzzle, cpu math co-processor, external memory, flash-bios rom, cache memory, video memory, etc.
Other systems were more tightly composed than the ibm-pc.. but the thing that got the market to the GO-GO days were the "clone" machines.. reverse engineered. IBM prohibited microsoft initially from loading microsoft dos on its machines.. eventually marketshare dictated who wags whom and we have david beating goliath at its own game, which can almost never happen due to DMCA. | |
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wmcbrine
Touched by His Noodly Appendage
join:2002-12-30
Laurel, MD | Re: Bloated? Your grasp of history is dismally awry. Go back and watch those documentaries again, and pay attention this time. Even better, read some books. | |
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GlennAllen
join:2002-11-17
Richmond, VA
2 edits | Re: Bloated? He's probably confusing MS-DOS with DOS(/360,/VSE) (?). At least, that's what I hope his (her?) confusion is... and MS-DOS came before Unix? Nope... also wrong. | |
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EdibleTarget
Real Gamers Dont Use Consoles
join:2004-12-02
Lowell, MA | why would IBM sell DOS to MS, just to pay them to license it for use on their PCs?
For a quick reference see »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DOS (wikipedia to the rescue). | |
| | | | | | rahvin112
join:2002-05-24
Sandy, UT
| I've never seen someone that was so woefully ignorant of history who then displayed that ignorance so acutely for everyone to witness and when corrected on that ignorance jumped at the opportunity to make themself the fool again.
Based on your comments it's clear that you are either very young or very stupid. I would suggest that you spend a little time studying a subject before you talk about it.
I won't speculate on what the first OS was for I don't know. UNIX came out IIRC in the late 60's, developed by some engineers at Bell Labs so they could play video games. DOS didn't come till the early 80's, and Microsoft purchased it (as mentioned above) to license to IBM solely so that they could sell their BASIC module to IBM to be included in the PC.
The IBM PC was also anything BUT proprietary. The computer was developed to be, and was constructed from commodity parts and contained only one piece that was patented. A piece (for which I can't remember the name) that was cloned by clean reverse engineering by Compaq and sold wholesale to anyone that wanted to build a clone. Had IBM not built their PC using commodity off the shelf parts the PC revolution would have been VASTLY different.
To call the IBM PC bloated is just plain ignorance and the words of a child. It was an elegant masterpiece considered in the context of what existed at the time. | |
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N3OGH
Bear patrol must be working like a charm
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs | Re: Bloated? Let the bloatware wars BEGIN!
Remember, fight nice children.... | |
| | | | ksuderman
join:2001-10-21
Poughkeepsie, NY
| Correction. Bill Gates licensed QDOS (Quick and Dirty Operating System) from Tim Paterson of Seattle Computer Products and then turned around and licensed it to IBM.
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In theory there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice there is. | |
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BloodRoses
Gods lend wings to tainted hearts
Premium
join:2003-03-17
clubs: | You mean they bought Mosaic and based a shell around it and ran it on top of DOS? | |
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wmcbrine
Touched by His Noodly Appendage
join:2002-12-30
Laurel, MD | In addition to the other corrections, I'd like to point out that DOS was by no means Microsoft's first product. | |
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rawgerz
In Debt we trust
Premium
join:2004-10-03
Grove City, PA | Hey Verizon You sure are bitching a lot lately take some Midol and stfu | |
| | | DMS1
join:2005-04-06
Carrollton, TX | TiVO I wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft bought TiVO. This would at least allow them to update the visible bit of their TV offering, which is what most people (probably rightfully) bitch about. | |
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pb5k
more cowbell
Premium
join:2005-11-16
Glendale, AZ
 ·Cox HSI
| Re: TiVO It would seem to be a logical move, since MS wants to be synonomous with the living room as well as the computer room - their WebTV products come to mind.
Yahoo Finance says Tivo's market cap is $690 million, so MS could theoretically buy them outright.
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"When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.'" --
Theodore Roosevelt | |
| | | RayW
Premium
join:2001-09-01
Layton, UT
clubs:
 ·XMission
| Re: TiVO said by pb5k :Yahoo Finance says Tivo's market cap is $690 million, so MS could theoretically buy them outright. And that is using slush fund money, not normal operational monies.
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I am not lost, I find myself every time. | |
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owenhome
keeper of the magic blue smoke
Premium
join:2002-07-13
Bentonville, AR | Re: TiVO Right out of the cash-box in the break room. Just leave a receipt please.
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Never argue with a fool, people might not know the difference. | |
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mbernste
Boosted
Premium,MVM
join:2001-06-30
Piscataway, NJ | Ha! Like Microsoft would ever sell something that uses the Linux operating system and Apple's Bonjour technology.
It'll never happen. | |
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pb5k
more cowbell
Premium
join:2005-11-16
Glendale, AZ
·Cox HSI
| Re: TiVO Technology is one thing but the brand recognition is another. Who's to say they wouldn't eventually buy Tivo and nerf it with their own technology? 
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"When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.'" --
Theodore Roosevelt | |
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dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
| said by pb5k :It would seem to be a logical move, since MS wants to be synonomous with the living room as well as the computer room - their WebTV products come to mind. Yahoo Finance says Tivo's market cap is $690 million, so MS could theoretically buy them outright. 690 million is a drop in the bucket.
they've probably thrown parties bigger than that.
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You can never be too rich, too thin or have too much Bandwidth | |
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wmcbrine
Touched by His Noodly Appendage
join:2002-12-30
Laurel, MD | Microsoft aside, Verizon should consider licensing Tivo's software. They already have a version (written initally for Comcast) that can run on the set-top boxes Verizon is using. | |
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inteller
Sociopaths always win.
join:2003-12-08
Tulsa, OK | Oh yeah, when it comes to software development.. ....verizon has got Microsoft beat....whatever.
verizon needs to provide robust dependable data connections and stfo of everything else.
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"WHEN THE LAUGH TRACK STARTS THEN THE FUN STARTS!" | |
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Squirrelly
join:2000-10-24
Harrisburg, PA | Re: Oh yeah, when it comes to software development.. they should team up with Apple
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I bitch. People listen!! | |
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insomniac84
join:2002-01-03
Schererville, IN | Re: Oh yeah, when it comes to software development.. Team up with apple there's an idea. Make it look sleek on the outside, but lose all innovation on the inside. That will make everyone happy. | |
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dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
| said by Squirrelly :they should team up with Apple ewwwwwwwww. uhhhhhhm. NO
not unless you want your next tivo to cost $1899 and be half as powerful as current models.
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You can never be too rich, too thin or have too much Bandwidth | |
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Squirrelly
join:2000-10-24
Harrisburg, PA
 ·Verizon FIOS
| Re: Oh yeah, when it comes to software development.. yeah, having all the BLOAT, virus, spyware etc. is so much better. I will take an Apple product over MS any day. Not saying MS is bad but they need start from scratch on the OS and Vista is not from scratch.
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I bitch. People listen!! | |
| | | | | grandpinaple
join:2006-01-03
New York, NY | Re: Oh yeah, when it comes to software development.. It's not so much that the OS is bad it's just difficult for them to be a jack of all trades and master of all those trades at the same time. I mean Microsoft at least gives you hardware choice. | |
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N3OGH
Bear patrol must be working like a charm
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
·Verizon FIOS
·Verizon Online DSL
| said by Squirrelly :yeah, having all the BLOAT, virus, spyware etc. is so much better. I will take an Apple product over MS any day. Not saying MS is bad but they need start from scratch on the OS and Vista is not from scratch. Wow, someone hit the nail on the head.
I'm both a Windows and a Mac user, and one thing OS X has over Vista is it didn't need to be backwardly compatible. Apple decided to start all over again. Although they did provide support for Classic OS programs, it was via emulation, and that ended with the Intel roll out.
The folks at Microsoft should have seen the genius of this. They should have done Vista from the ground up, and supported old programs via some sort of emulator, making new programs "Vista exclusive". This way, they could have started from scratch.
Oh shit, I'm going off topic. Sorry...
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Never ask what sort of a computer a guy drives. If he's a Mac user, he'll tell you. If not, why embarrass him? -Tom Clancy | |
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inteller
Sociopaths always win.
join:2003-12-08
Tulsa, OK
| Re: Oh yeah, when it comes to software development.. you people act like Apple built OS X from the ground up and you couldn't be more wrong. OS X is cobbled together from bits and pieces of BSD and NEXTSTEP. Jobs had to schlep off his NeXT to someone and used Apple to do it. Hell OS X is really just a suped up version of Openstep.
SO before you idiots go around telling people to build their OS from the ground up, do a little research on your poster child.
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"WHEN THE LAUGH TRACK STARTS THEN THE FUN STARTS!" | |
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N3OGH
Bear patrol must be working like a charm
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
·Verizon FIOS
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Oh yeah, when it comes to software development.. said by inteller :you people act like Apple built OS X from the ground up and you couldn't be more wrong. OS X is cobbled together from bits and pieces of BSD and NEXTSTEP. Jobs had to schlep off his NeXT to someone and used Apple to do it. Hell OS X is really just a suped up version of Openstep. SO before you idiots go around telling people to build their OS from the ground up, do a little research on your poster child. Hey fella, how about keeping the name calling to yourself. The fact that you took the time to bang out a response to my post negates me being an "idiot", or at least you being in a position to name me one.
As I stated in my post, I'm both a Windows and a Mac user. I've played around with the latest release candidate of Vista, and I'm well aware of OS X roots in the NeXT Openstep operating system.
So, I'm telling people how to build "their" OS, am I? I happen to use that OS on a daily basis on both my work and home machines, so it's MY OS too. I'm not telling anyone to do shit. I'm just making suggestions. Tell me I'm wrong. Tell me Microsoft wouldn't have been better off stepping back, taking a good, hard, look at XP and deciding it may be time to start over from scratch instead of making the latest incarnation of Windows backwardly compatible with something from the early 80's. In all seriousness, and with no sarcasm, I welcome your explanation of it.
At least one company had the vision to realize they had done what they could with what they had, and decided to look for something better... | |
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Squirrelly
join:2000-10-24
Harrisburg, PA
·Verizon FIOS
| Re: Oh yeah, when it comes to software development.. said by N3OGH :said by inteller :you people act like Apple built OS X from the ground up and you couldn't be more wrong. OS X is cobbled together from bits and pieces of BSD and NEXTSTEP. Jobs had to schlep off his NeXT to someone and used Apple to do it. Hell OS X is really just a suped up version of Openstep. SO before you idiots go around telling people to build their OS from the ground up, do a little research on your poster child. Hey fella, how about keeping the name calling to yourself. The fact that you took the time to bang out a response to my post negates me being an "idiot", or at least you being in a position to name me one. As I stated in my post, I'm both a Windows and a Mac user. I've played around with the latest release candidate of Vista, and I'm well aware of OS X roots in the NeXT Openstep operating system. So, I'm telling people how to build "their" OS, am I? I happen to use that OS on a daily basis on both my work and home machines, so it's MY OS too. I'm not telling anyone to do shit. I'm just making suggestions. Tell me I'm wrong. Tell me Microsoft wouldn't have been better off stepping back, taking a good, hard, look at XP and deciding it may be time to start over from scratch instead of making the latest incarnation of Windows backwardly compatible with something from the early 80's. In all seriousness, and with no sarcasm, I welcome your explanation of it. At least one company had the vision to realize they had done what they could with what they had, and decided to look for something better... I agree 100%, however I don't think MS will take that approach. It was a lot easier from Apple to do it than MS. I think if MS does it the same way Apple did that they might lose some business to people switching.
As for Wacoyle...why do you go and attach someone when they are just giving there opinion. I also use both products but prefer Apple over MS and I know the history on both.
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I bitch. People listen!! | |
| Taget
join:2004-07-29
| Well.. If you look at settop boxes microsoft has made before. The Dishplayer was terrible buggy garbage. Then again Dish Network has since then shown a track record for buggy software. So that might not have been all Microsoft. But the Directv settop box they made was pretty good. And if it's based on that then that isnt a bad thing.
Of course I do love my Directivo dearly and think any more in that direction would be genius. | |
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insomniac84
join:2002-01-03
Schererville, IN | Re: Well.. They have also done good with the media center pc. There is always room for improvement, but when it comes down to it, who else has the experience to get it done right? Real? lol. | |
| | doncoolio
join:2005-07-18
Yucaipa, CA | What about UltimateTV boxes for directv? I, along with others, would argue that these were superior to anything at the time. | |
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phoneboy2
@shawcable.net | And this is supposed to be a revelation? "Too big and bulky"
LOL! Like they are suprised by this. I think the big Telco's and M$ belong together. It's a good fit. Big and bulky companies that run slow using software that does the same! | |
| itguy05
join:2005-06-17
Camp Hill, PA
| Getting what they deserve VZ is getting what they Deserve. Every MS STB has been a failure - Comcast's limited trial is a flop. MS's stuff for Dish was garbage, MS's UltimateTV was a disgrace, etc.
Glad to see they are getting what they paid for - more MS garbage.
I'll stick with Comcast who has no MS Stuff in my neck of the woods (everywhere but Washington state). And if they do go MS, I'm out of here.
MS needs to be nowhere, not everywhere. | |
| | jjeffeory
join:2002-12-04
USA
| Re: Getting what they deserve Well, I've had Verizon FiOS TV in Beaumont Ca for 3 months, and if it's MS garbage, then I congratulate MS for making such garbage. Is it perfect? No... There are some things to work on, but it is still better than the TWC I had before it. It's better than my friend's Cox cable in Las Vegas. It's better than the Charter Cable STB I had in Hammond, LA last year. It's better than some of the DirecTV STBs I have had, and on par with others. I like it a little less than the DirecTV HR10-250, which I thought was an excellent receiver/DVR. Besides, the picture quality is the best I've ever seen and that's the bottom line for me. Oh and they seem to be aggressive in their channel line-up additions. | |
| | | nozzer
join:2004-06-25
Waltham, MA | Re: Getting what they deserve FiOS TV currently is NOT I repeat NOT MS, nor is it IPTV. | |
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vzjuan
@grandenetworks.net | Re: Getting what they deserve What is in market today most certainly IS Microsoft TV Foundation middleware and client. Why do you think otherwise? | |
| Pictor Guy
join:2004-06-21
Sammamish, WA
| Microsoft and threes MSFT generally takes three revisions to get things right. Okay... no snickering. By right I mean where people can tollerate it. So, MSFTs first attempt at a TV STB was with the early Dish Network DVR's. Nope, no blue screen of death there. They were purple. Then came the TiVo killer, you remember, UltimateTV. Oh yeah... that didn't kill the TiVo but nice try. Then the third was Verizon's STB. Hmmm... | |
| | gatchel
join:2000-11-28
16465 | BSOD now that's funny!!! | |
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Even Microsoft powered cable boxes get BSOD!
