DreadOn course Premium Member join:2005-02-28 Bronx, NY 1 edit |
Dread
Premium Member
2007-Oct-23 2:09 pm
Sexy timeAwesome, I hope OOL competes with this, I'd love to get more upstream | |
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| RARPSL join:1999-12-08 Suffern, NY 1 edit |
RARPSL
Member
2007-Oct-23 2:50 pm
Re: Sexy timesaid by Dread:Awesome, I hope OOL competes with this, I'd love to get more upstream Until OOL goes DOCSIS 3.0 the best that they can do is 38/27 (the max that Boost's DOCSIS 2.0 can do before you allow for overhead - I'd say the real max is more like 35/24 or so). OTOH, while they can install DOCSIS 3.0 capable Head End equipment (which will also support the current Boost DOCSIS 2.0 and Standard Tier DOCSIS 1.1), the support of DOCSIS 3.0 will require that the customer's Modem be replaced with a DOCSIS 3.0 capable one and some splitting of the nodes. DOCSIS 3.0 gives each user access to more than one channel at the some time BUT does nothing for the aggregate available bandwidth on the node. Only by reducing the number of users on a node via splitting an existent node into 2 or more nodes and spreading the users serviced by the current node between the new nodes can a node's total bandwidth be reallocated to support DOCSIS 3.0's extra bandwidth capabilities. Activating DOCSIS 3.0 on an oversold node will leave it oversold although not to the same extent since, unless every channel on the node is currently oversold, the unused bandwidth on the non-oversold channels will get allocated to and used by the DOCSIS 3.0 modems. | |
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Re: Sexy timeDoes this matter if its split between docsis 2 and docsis 1.1?
I thought docsis 2 was seperate from docsis 1.1? Could they convert all the boost users from docsis 2 to docsis 3 and leave the regular users at docsis 1.1? | |
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| | | RARPSL join:1999-12-08 Suffern, NY |
RARPSL
Member
2007-Oct-24 12:12 am
Re: Sexy timesaid by majortom1029:Does this matter if its split between docsis 2 and docsis 1.1? I thought docsis 2 was seperate from docsis 1.1? Could they convert all the boost users from docsis 2 to docsis 3 and leave the regular users at docsis 1.1? I'd think that the Boost Users would be offered a faster Tier via DOCSIS 3.0 (since it requires new modems) while the current Boost Tier is left in place. DOCSIS 1.1 and 2.0 can coexist on the node - I am NOT sure if they share channels or if each get their own set of channels. Info on DOCSIS can be found at » en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Docsis. | |
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to RARPSL
What happened to NARAD? Google says they changed their name to PhyFlex, and the news doesn't look good » phyflex.com/ lol | |
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| | Done_PostingShoot to kill Premium Member join:2003-08-22 Toledo, OH |
to RARPSL
I'm not sure where your numbers are coming from. In my experience, DOCSIS 2.0 enabled equipment maxes out 38 Mbps useable downstream and around 25 - 27 Mbps useable upstream. That's still a far cry from GPON's 2.4 Gbps down and 1.2 Gbps up, but offers more wiggle room than the 30 / 10 scenario you mentioned (which is more reminiscient of DOCSIS 1.1 with a 16 QAM return). Don't worry. I want 20 / 20 FiOS just as bad as everyone else does too... - Tate | |
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| | | RARPSL join:1999-12-08 Suffern, NY |
RARPSL
Member
2007-Oct-24 12:16 am
Re: Sexy timesaid by Done_Posting:I'm not sure where your numbers are coming from. In my experience, DOCSIS 2.0 enabled equipment maxes out 38 Mbps useable downstream and around 25 - 27 Mbps useable upstream. That's still a far cry from GPON's 2.4 Gbps down and 1.2 Gbps up, but offers more wiggle room than the 30 / 10 scenario you mentioned (which is more reminiscient of DOCSIS 1.1 with a 16 QAM return). - Tate OOPS. Thanks for the correction. I updated my figures in the message but it does not alter my comment that activation of DOCSIS 3.0 would seem to require Node Splits to get maximum bandwidth due to the channel bonding. | |
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| | fiberguy2My views are my own. Premium Member join:2005-05-20 |
to RARPSL
And you know what?? that all still doesn't matter here. The big part of this story is that it's a 20M upload tier. (Which isn't anything ground breaking - they aren't the first fiber co out there to offer it. Surewest offers 50 sym)
While 20/20 sounds good, the fact still remains that very very very few people need a 20mb line out. The overwhelming majority of people need download, not upload. Except for the P2P crowd, which most players could care about, the majority of people out there would do fine with a 2mb line out.
If you gave cable customers, on a 3.0 model, even 50 down, they'd be far more than happy. In fact, I think you'd find the majority asking for a smaller tier, less speed, at a smaller price. These ultra fast tiers, to the masses, aren't going to really care.
Now with that said, I will give them credit for making the speed available to those that desire it which is a step in the right direction. I, one that uses the internet daily for my bread and butter, does fine with a 12/1 line and I get along just fine. I also know that much of my need belongs in business tiers. It's nice to see options out there, but I'm realistic in what to expect too.. Again, glad there is a major player that is looking to the future. | |
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| TzaleProud Libertarian Conservative Premium Member join:2004-01-06 NYC Metro |
to Dread
said by Dread:Awesome, I hope OOL competes with this, I'd love to get more upstream FIOS has effectively killed any competition from OOL if you need serious symmetrical bandwidth. For the average user, 20mbps upload is overkill. But this is truly a major point in American broadband history when a major ISP offers symmetrical fiber @ 20mbps. In other works, this is f'ing amazing. -Tzale | |
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| | DreadOn course Premium Member join:2005-02-28 Bronx, NY 2 edits |
Dread
Premium Member
2007-Oct-23 5:37 pm
Re: Sexy timesaid by Tzale:said by Dread:Awesome, I hope OOL competes with this, I'd love to get more upstream FIOS has effectively killed any competition from OOL if you need serious symmetrical bandwidth. For the average user, 20mbps upload is overkill. But this is truly a major point in American broadband history when a major ISP offers symmetrical fiber @ 20mbps. In other works, this is f'ing amazing. -Tzale I have 30/5 and I'm happy with it, but I'd so dump CV just for the sake of having a symmetrical connection I'd really use the upload... | |
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| | | TzaleProud Libertarian Conservative Premium Member join:2004-01-06 NYC Metro |
Tzale
Premium Member
2007-Oct-23 5:43 pm
Re: Sexy timesaid by Dread:said by Tzale:said by Dread:Awesome, I hope OOL competes with this, I'd love to get more upstream FIOS has effectively killed any competition from OOL if you need serious symmetrical bandwidth. For the average user, 20mbps upload is overkill. But this is truly a major point in American broadband history when a major ISP offers symmetrical fiber @ 20mbps. In other works, this is f'ing amazing. -Tzale I have 30/5 and I'm happy with it, but I'd so dump CV just for the sake of having a symmetrical connection I'd really use the upload... Yeah, OOL provides a good connection. I have the standard tier and I'm more than happy with it. But their TV services really lacks and FIOS new deal of a free LCD HDTV and phone+internet+tv for $95/month is too hard to pass up. -Tzale | |
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| dvd536as Mr. Pink as they come Premium Member join:2001-04-27 Phoenix, AZ |
to Dread
said by Dread:Awesome, I hope OOL competes with this, I'd love to get more upstream Lets see: 10mbps upload/node. uhmmmm I don't see ANY cable company able to do 20mbps on the upload at the moment including Cablevision. | |
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you guys were right on with your guessesyou guys were right on with your guesses | |
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Finally !They are finally giving symmetrical speeds. Now why don't they spread it out over the whole foot print and also start rolling out service more. | |
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| afro561 join:2002-11-12 Baltimore, MD |
Re: Finally !Maryland screwed again =( | |
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| | BarneyBadAssBadasses Fight For Freedom Premium Member join:2004-05-07 00001 |
Re: Finally !it's likely worse than that... I'll bet when it becomes available in MoCo it should be something in the range of 250 / month... | |
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| | | Lumberjack Premium Member join:2003-01-18 Newport News, VA |
Re: Finally !said by BarneyBadAss:it's likely worse than that... I'll bet when it becomes available in MoCo it should be something in the range of 250 / month... And as I said before, for southern Virginia it will be around $700/mo. | |
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Re: Finally !Personally I would hoped for them to revamp there whole billing problems they are having. After 9 months I am still having billings issues which I cant get resolved, and I am an Verizon Employee. | |
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to BarneyBadAss
3rd that...Exciting news but its going to be a while before this comes to MD/MoCo. Until then I will enjoy my 15/2 connection....sigggghhhh | |
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| | newviewEx .. Ex .. Exactly Premium Member join:2001-10-01 Parsonsburg, MD |
to afro561
said by afro561:Maryland screwed again =( Yeah . . . we don't even have plain old DSL in my neck of the woods. Verizon told me 10 years before we'd see anything resembling FIOS in my area. I'm not holding my breath. Thanks for nothing, Verizon. | |
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| | | TzaleProud Libertarian Conservative Premium Member join:2004-01-06 NYC Metro |
Tzale
Premium Member
2007-Oct-23 5:34 pm
Re: Finally !said by newview:said by afro561:Maryland screwed again =( Yeah . . . we don't even have plain old DSL in my neck of the woods. Verizon told me 10 years before we'd see anything resembling FIOS in my area. I'm not holding my breath. Thanks for nothing, Verizon. You can't always get what you want.... Verizon stopped rolling out DSL years ago. Don't hold your breath on that. It takes time to roll out the network. You want it, I want it, he wants it, she wants it... -Tzale | |
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| swhx7 Premium Member join:2006-07-23 Elbonia |
to BosstonesOwn
Seconded! I would consider this a bargain. It's only about $20 more than I'm paying for 10Mb down / 0.4 up.
It may be a long wait out here in the boondocks. Maybe another company will offer something similar. | |
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| TzaleProud Libertarian Conservative Premium Member join:2004-01-06 NYC Metro |
to BosstonesOwn
said by BosstonesOwn:They are finally giving symmetrical speeds. Now why don't they spread it out over the whole foot print and also start rolling out service more. They will.... This shit takes time. You can't just snap your fingers and have everything when you want it. It takes the network engineers time to make sure there isn't going to be major problems with these new speeds. Think about this.... Many "broadband" ISPs offer 128kbps - 1mbps upload. FIOS is giving you 20mbps for a very low price... This type of thing requires some balls on the network engineers part, and I think it will pay off. No doubt in my mind that they're going to have growing pains when you increase the tiers to such high speeds, so they probably want to test it in the NJ/NY/CT tri-state area because we have a lot of backbone bandwidth here. -Tzale | |
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EverAndAnon
Anon
2007-Oct-23 2:13 pm
Ground-breaking...if the TOS says something like "servers welcome!".
What would be the point of 20mb up if you're not running a "server"? | |
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| swhx7 Premium Member join:2006-07-23 Elbonia |
swhx7
Premium Member
2007-Oct-23 2:18 pm
Re: Ground-breaking...Well, VOIP, games, and uploading pictures to grandma, I suppose, but good point.
They could at least say, a server is OK as long as traffic is low. | |
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| v35_pilotWhoops, there goes another AMU Premium Member join:2005-12-12 Fayetteville, NY
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to EverAndAnon
Agreed. Personally I am happy with FiOS' 5 Mbps up. I don't see the 20 Mbps upload speed being worth the extra cost simply to upload an occasional picture via email or FTP. (Don't get me wrong, 5Mbps is much nicer than the average cable upload speeds.) | |
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| | FFH5 Premium Member join:2002-03-03 Tavistock NJ |
FFH5
Premium Member
2007-Oct-23 3:09 pm
Re: Ground-breaking...said by v35_pilot:Agreed. Personally I am happy with FiOS' 5 Mbps up. I don't see the 20 Mbps upload speed being worth the extra cost simply to upload an occasional picture via email or FTP. (Don't get me wrong, 5Mbps is much nicer than the average cable upload speeds.) Especially since many of the places you would upload to won't accept connections at very high speeds. The actual upload throughput will often be much less that 5 Mbps let alone 20 mbps. | |
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Re: Ground-breaking...When Im at work there are plenty of places that can take a 85 mbit upload.
I don't know what ragtag hosted sites you visit but almost every host now provides at the least a 100 mbit port. Data coming in is almost always free and they pay on the 95th percentile out. | |
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| | | | FFH5 Premium Member join:2002-03-03 Tavistock NJ |
FFH5
Premium Member
2007-Oct-23 3:30 pm
Re: Ground-breaking...said by BosstonesOwn:When Im at work there are plenty of places that can take a 85 mbit upload. Name some? | |
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Re: Ground-breaking...I can think of almost every online game server accepting 20mb throughput. Gamers would just love this.
But yeah for the most part 20/20 would be nice but probably be too much unless you are a gamer in need of that upload bandwidth. | |
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| | | | | lesopp join:2001-06-27 Land O Lakes, FL |
to FFH5
The company I work for hosts applications for the real estate industry. I manage the edge routers, firewalls, internal routers, load balancing platforms and a plethora of switches. We have an OC12 from UUNet Verizon Business and 400mbit link from Cogent (their tiered gigabit product). | |
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to FFH5
said by FFH5:said by BosstonesOwn:When Im at work there are plenty of places that can take a 85 mbit upload. Name some? Where to start ! Sun , Redhat , Suse , Ubuntu all of which take contributions of code. I routinely send over 60 mbit a sec to them. @ Sun I routinely receive log and explorer outputs that run over 3 gigs on big clusters. MS , Comcast , Apple , 1and1 hosting , servercentral.net hosting. Ok what else you want to know ? Ever upload pictures ? My email server here routinely lets me send at over 130 mbit when I send from a gige workstation. And it's on the other side of the country ! | |
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| Cabal Premium Member join:2007-01-21 |
to EverAndAnon
You need to pay triple for the servers-allowed option, otherwise you're stuck with blocked incoming ports 25, 53, 80, among others. | |
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| | PhoenixDownFIOS is Awesome Premium Member join:2003-06-08 Fresh Meadows, NY |
Re: Ground-breaking...I pay about $150 a month for my dedicated server... so if I could get a business class fios connection for the same price -- I would be saving at least $60 a month | |
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| | Noah VailOh God please no. Premium Member join:2004-12-10 SouthAmerica |
to Cabal
De milage do vary!I have a server hosted at a FiOS (dynamic IP) site. It's been up for around 2 years and I use it for web, FTP, SMTP (blacklisted, not blocked), terminal svcs and other things.
It also boasts a full time, hardware VPN.
Having the IP addy change 45x/day does make it a bit tough. With no evidence, I believe the addy change is triggered by incoming packets. I have 2 dyndns updaters working to keep up with it.
Certainly worth the cost.
NV | |
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TiersOk I wanna see the prices and that chart shows the Mid-Tier at 20/5....I have the 15/2 service. Do I get a bump in speed...lets hope so | |
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jumping ahead of themselves?It would be nice if my town can at least get FiOS TV before anything else. >:/
what's the hold up!? | |
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Matt3All noise, no signal. Premium Member join:2003-07-20 Jamestown, NC |
Matt3
Premium Member
2007-Oct-23 2:18 pm
WonderfulThis is wonderful and what should be sold by all ISP's. Symmetric speeds make using your internet connection so much more enjoyable, especially now with people sending videos, pictures, and working from home.
I would bet the majority of users would be happier with a 5/5 connection than a 15/2. The companies say "Our customers aren't asking for it, so they don't want it. It's a small minority of customers who ask for it." ... well, yeah, it is. It's the people like us who frequent this site and KNOW how much more enjoyable a reasonable upstream can make the online experience. How can someone know they want something if they don't know the difference it'll make? | |
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Re: WonderfulI would be happy with 15/2 considering I have dsl @ 6.0M/512k | |
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Micah
Anon
2007-Oct-23 4:19 pm
Re: WonderfulAmen to that ! | |
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richdelbGo Hawks Go Premium Member join:2003-01-22 Algonquin, IL |
richdelb
Premium Member
2007-Oct-23 2:21 pm
droolDrooling for those speeds. | |
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NOCManMadMacHatter Premium Member join:2004-09-30 Colorado Springs, CO |
NOCMan
Premium Member
2007-Oct-23 2:22 pm
Texans screwed again and we have GPONThat upgrade will be on the horizon for ages.. | |
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Jerm join:2000-04-10 Richland, WA |
Jerm
Member
2007-Oct-23 2:22 pm
Wow just imagine...With 20mbps and seeding popular bittorrent files you should be able to see roughly:
172GB uploaded a day
Over 5 TB a month!
WOW! | |
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| CMoore2004 Premium Member join:2003-02-06 Jonesville, MI |
Re: Wow just imagine...Actually, 20Mbps is almost 211GB/day and over 6TB/month. | |
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They ended it shortThey didn't even answer any of the 10 questions I sent in before the event even launched.
I really wanna know when they plan on rolling out service in more parts of my area. Right now the only areas houses are more then 400 K in the areas they selected to roll out in. And neither me nor my wife together can afford a home that expensive and still have service. | |
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| rothan Premium Member join:2000-11-07 Rowley, MA |
rothan
Premium Member
2007-Oct-23 4:21 pm
Re: They ended it shortsaid by BosstonesOwn:They didn't even answer any of the 10 questions I sent in before the event even launched. I really wanna know when they plan on rolling out service in more parts of my area. Right now the only areas houses are more then 400 K in the areas they selected to roll out in. And neither me nor my wife together can afford a home that expensive and still have service. I wish they would, they know the people in this area would eat it up fast. | |
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| Ahrenl join:2004-10-26 North Andover, MA |
to BosstonesOwn
Well, the median home price in the Boston, MA MSA is over 400k, and frankly our town has a median home price of 500k and still no FIOS. Basically they chose Eastern Mass for roll-out, and probably prioritized by obtainable market share, or competitive degredation, or something that makes sense, since people who rent can just as easily afford the service as people who can buy a 400k house. | |
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Man I want it!Man I seriously want this......what a deal! I would ditch Comcast in a heartbeat! Ain't no Hyundai there Brian Roberts, I think Fios is running you off the road, especially with these speeds and cost! DROOL! | |
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ZB join:2007-10-18 |
ZB
Member
2007-Oct-23 2:26 pm
20/20Anybody here when Pa. is getting it. | |
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| N3OGHYo Soy Col. "Bat" Guano Premium Member join:2003-11-11 Philly burbs |
N3OGH
Premium Member
2007-Oct-23 2:30 pm
Re: 20/20Don't hold your breath.
Verizon seems to make a perennial habit of sticking it to the Keystone state....
I should be bale to get Fios here soon (we were supposed to have it 6 months ago), but from what I hear, the TV roll out has been going slower than Verizon would have hoped. So even with several towns within the CO that serves my area having signed franchise agreements, it may be a while there, too... | |
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| | Sammer join:2005-12-22 Canonsburg, PA |
Sammer
Member
2007-Oct-23 2:35 pm
Re: 20/20said by N3OGH:Don't hold your breath. That's exactly what I was about to say | |
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Asus RT-AC68 Ubiquiti NSM5
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Smart MoveFIOS's main competitor is cable and although there's no technical reason why cable couldn't allocate more speed to the upstream link, it's going to cost them a bundle to re-engineer all those nodes and replace the current modems. Marketing 101 - Differentiate Your Product | |
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| JeffConnoisseur of leisurely things Premium Member join:2002-12-24 GMT -5 |
Jeff
Premium Member
2007-Oct-23 2:39 pm
Re: OLD NEWSUmm, that's why they "last week". That was 10/15. They did guess correctly. | |
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| DreadOn course Premium Member join:2005-02-28 Bronx, NY |
to Anonymous_
Good job Capitaine evidant | |
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Want more, $PAY$MORE$Shrug, $15 more based upon a non-discounted rate. For me, if I'm uploading.. I can usually wait. I did when it was 768/128kbit dsl. 20/5 is no different (in the asymmetric nature) Too bad Cablevision can't respond until next year on the upload. They could give everyone the uncapped 38/5 for the $29.95 & play the which matters most to you game.
For the application of uploading pictures.. wouldn't you do that in the background of a 20/5 connection and see virtually no degrading of the 20mbiit downstream anyway?
I would have shown some kind of multi-computer use. That's where they MAY get someone to splurge for 20/20. Based upon 4 computers sharing 20 up 20 down. Can't wait for the commercials to hit the airwaves in NY. | |
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dadkinsCan you do Blu? MVM join:2003-09-26 Hercules, CA 2 edits
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Symmetrical?AFT!(About Fucking Time!)
All the one-sidedness was getting stupid - no matter what some people tried to apoligize away.
FINALLY FiOS is doing fiber as fiber should be done. | |
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| Chris 313Because It's Geekier Premium Member join:2004-07-18 Houma, LA ·AT&T FTTP ·Comcast XFINITY
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Re: Symmetrical?I totally agree. I can see with this announcement they're gonna drop all the other tiers and go with the same speeds up and down.
Here's the way I see things:
Econo Tier: 5/5 - 14.95-19.95 Start tier: 15/15 - 34.95-39.95 Middle tier: 20/20 - 44.95-49.95 Speed tier: 50/50 - 54.95-64.95 Testing Tier: 100/100 - 75.95-89.95
If they did that right now, they could crush all the cable outfits they have.
My prices might be off, but hey, it's just a guess. | |
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hmmI will get bashed for this but in NY area I see this as only appealing to heavy users of upload.
Cablevision has a 30/5 package(wich they uncapped the download so theoretically its 38/5) at the same price.
So unless verizon does a heavy marketing scheme as to why uplaod is better I only see heavy users switching to that. Considering the general public would like the better download speeds.
PS boost does not have capped upload either. | |
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| DownTheShorePray for Ukraine Premium Member join:2003-12-02 Beautiful NJ |
Re: hmmIt's not just the point that heavy users will benefit, it's that Verizon is pushing the technology and the envelope further. It's not letting things stagnate by saying "oh, that's all "they" (meaning the general public) need". By saying "this is what WE can give you" it will ultimately boot the rest of the ISP's out of their complacency in order to compete with the improving technology. I may not need it at this point in time, but some do - for whatever purpose - and I'm glad they can get it. Damn, I'm from the generation that went to the moon - I hate it when I read things where people want to throttle back technological innovation and implementation. Go forward, people, don't just run in place! | |
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Re: hmmI know they are pushing it but this package was a waste of time.
Everybody is saying this will blow the cable companies out of the water. But in the area where they are releasing it is where cablevision is competing.
If they want to push things they have to release a 50/50 package for this price. Do something that the cable company in this area can't do. | |
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alchav join:2002-05-17 Saint George, UT |
alchav
Member
2007-Oct-23 2:46 pm
Throw in the White Towel........Verizon is the Winner!!!I told you guys, with FTTH there is no stopping Verizon. All the other competitors including the Telco's, will have to follow suit to keep up. I don't believe Cable could do this, they are already straining their Copper Coax with the Services they offer now. I think the BellHeads at AT&T are all crying. | |
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Shamayim
Premium Member
2007-Oct-23 2:48 pm
Sticking with OOLNothing in the offer to entice me away from cable--yet. | |
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