Search:  

 
 
   News
newer
story category Verizon: We Won't Be Hollywood's Copyright Cops
Filters, Comcast-style packet forgery 'slippery slopes'
(old news - 09:21AM Wednesday Feb 06 2008)
tags: Verizon FIOS · AT&T DSL Service · Verizon Online DSL
Tipped by johndoe303 See Profile
AT&T this year will voluntarily put mechanisms in place that will filter pirated material from the company's network. No specific technology has been announced, but insiders say that AT&T has been testing a solution from Vobile since last Spring. The move is a risky one, given it could cost the company a significant number of p2p customers -- or non p2p customers if the filters don't work correctly. The decision may also annoy investors, who won't like the added costs of an endless war on piracy. It could also open the door to legal liability.

In contrast, Verizon tells the NY Times they won't be implementing filters at Hollywood's request. "We generally are reluctant to get into the business of examining content that flows across our networks and taking some action as a result of that content," Verizon's chief policy man Tom Tauke tells the paper. According to Tauke, in addition to potential legal liability and privacy concerns, the decision to say yes to Hollywood is "a slippery slope":
Once you start going down the path of looking at the information going down the network, there are many that want you to play the role of policeman. Stop illegal gambling offshore. Stop pornography. Stop a whole array of other kinds of activities that some may think inappropriate.
In addition, Tauke says Verizon won't be implementing Comcast-style forged packet trickery, as it "again starts you down a path you don’t want to go down." The company also recently stated that their decision to deploy fiber to the home leaves them in a position where they probably won't have to bill by the byte. Somebody give the folks at Verizon a cookie; they've learned that providing clean, unimpeded bandwidth makes good business sense.

Related:
  1. Verizon: We've Neglected DSL
  2. Verizon Unions Prep For Strike
  3. Verizon Union Workers Not Striking Yet
  4. Verizon Union Workers Set Sunday Strike Deadline
  5. Verizon, Unions Reach Agreement
  6. Was FiOS a Good Idea?
  7. Verizon, AT&T Offer New DSL Promotions
  8. Verizon Has No Plans To Cap, Throttle
Forums » Verizon: We Won't Be Hollywood's Copyright Cops
view: topics flat text 
Post a:
matrix3D

join:2006-09-27
Deep River, CT

Go Verizon

Way to go Verizon... tell those greedy Hollywood bastards to go F themselves.
ATHF

join:2004-12-20
00000


edit:
February 6th, @09:31AM

Re: Go Verizon

government should make then split the biz

it's a better cure then net neutrality
they won't care if your visiting itunes or netflix to download movies or music and not have to worry OH MY god they stealing our business "slow down there access to netflix to make them order our VOD channels"

TV and Internet don't mix

especially if tv side where content providers wants u to sensor your other services (internet) or cap becaue pirated shows on the net.

they should be pipe provider and that's that.

you want to be a cable tv service so be it but not both.

this turning in to 1-3 companies controls all

BillTager

join:2000-09-20
Charlotte, NC

Re: Go Verizon

said by ATHF See Profile :

they should be pipe provider and that's that.
I agree with this statement. Unfortunately, it's the only thing intelligible in your post.
BosstonesOwn

join:2002-12-15
Everett, MA
clubs:
·Comcast Formerly ..

said by ATHF See Profile :

government should make then split the biz

it's a better cure then net neutrality
they won't care if your visiting itunes or netflix to download movies or music and not have to worry OH MY god they stealing our business "slow down there access to netflix to make them order our VOD channels"

TV and Internet don't mix

especially if tv side where content providers wants u to sensor your other services (internet) or cap becaue pirated shows on the net.

they should be pipe provider and that's that.

you want to be a cable tv service so be it but not both.

this turning in to 1-3 companies controls all
ok , what article were you reading ? they refuse to interrupt any service. That is a great thing. They are choosing to leave the pipes alone and not police traffic.

Thats a good thing and a reason why they don't need to change anything.

Verizon is doing a good thing here. I love this stance. And because of it , I invest in them as well as use their services I can get.

I don't need any one
--
"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!"
floydb_1982

join:2004-08-25
Kent, WA
·Clearwire Wireless
·Comcast

That's telling them Verizon there telling Hellswood to go back to "F 'n" hell were they came from. Shove it up there face Verizon.

sharkpedal

join:2005-05-04
PA

This is not your fathers internet...

"Somebody give the folks at Verizon a cookie; they've learned that providing clean, unimpeded bandwidth makes good business sense."

Right On!

MattE
Obama '08
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC

Verizon the new Google?

Verizon (aside from Verizon Wireless) is quickly becoming the "warm and fuzzy" company all the geeks love.

Fast, cheap bandwidth, and a hands-off policy.

If Verizon can do it and please investors, why can't AT&T?
matrix3D

join:2006-09-27
Deep River, CT

Re: Verizon the new Google?

Perhaps because the AT&T CEO (is it still Whitacre?) is a greedy, blood-thirsty dictator?

TScheisskopf
World News Trust

join:2005-02-13
Belvidere, NJ
·Sprint Broadband D..

Re: Verizon the new Google?

Probably something far more mundane, such as the **AA's promising The Deathstar very favorable rates and conditions for UVerse.

But yeah, there is a wide swath of people out there who want control of the Internet, especially in the entertainment industry. Remember: patrons of all sectors of the entertainment industry, radio, TV, movies and music, are down. Part of that is because of the fact that people are using the internet. They want them eyeballs and earholes back, and the way to do it is to essentially grab it, by any means, fair or foul. If it means lying, cheating, stealing and barratry to get it, well...so what?

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
Because at&t is still entrenched in that Monopoly-Bell ideology.
niblifar

join:2004-02-12
Ohio
Yep, I love those "warm and fuzzy" hidden fees.
--
Vita est bona.

Jodokast96
R.I.P Bassman442
Premium
join:2005-11-23
Erial, NJ
·Verizon Online DSL

Re: Verizon the new Google?

said by niblifar See Profile :

Yep, I love those "warm and fuzzy" hidden fees.
What hidden fees?
niblifar

join:2004-02-12
Ohio
·Verizon Online DSL

Re: Verizon the new Google?

Warm and fuzzy is right here.

»New Verizon DSL Fees

»Gotcha Capitalism: Sneaky Broadband Fees
--
Vita est bona.

Jodokast96
R.I.P Bassman442
Premium
join:2005-11-23
Erial, NJ

Re: Verizon the new Google?

That's from over a year ago, they weren't the only ones to do it, and they were dropped before they ever actually started charging them. That's the best you've got?
niblifar

join:2004-02-12
Ohio

Re: Verizon the new Google?

The point is they have a history of hidden fees, and unless they are kept in check, nothing will stop them from reimplementing them. Verizon's no warm and fuzzy teddy bear.
--
Vita est bona.

Jodokast96
R.I.P Bassman442
Premium
join:2005-11-23
Erial, NJ
·Verizon Online DSL

Re: Verizon the new Google?

Whoever said they were? And what company doesn't need to be kept in check? Of all of the complaints you could make about them, you choose the biggest non-issue there is. One fee, one time, that was never even implemented, is not a history. A history of bad support? Yes. A history of turning thing over to the government? Yes. But a history of hidden fees? That's a stretch and a half and you still come up short.
niblifar

join:2004-02-12
Ohio

Re: Verizon the new Google?

So Verizon doesn't use "unfees" in their DSL or POTS? Silly me.
--
Vita est bona.

Jodokast96
R.I.P Bassman442
Premium
join:2005-11-23
Erial, NJ

Re: Verizon the new Google?

POTS? Couldn't tell you. But DSL? No, they don't.

swhx7
Premium
join:2006-07-23
Elbonia
·RoadRunner Cable

said by MattE See Profile :

If Verizon can do it and please investors, why can't AT&T?

It's the investment in fiber that makes the difference.
Kearnstd
Elf Wizard

join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
you can bet hollywood will just buy some laws in the coming years that will make ISPs required to block whatever the Media Mafia considers pirate.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK

Re: Verizon the new Google?

I'd still prefer them to have to work for it and try and alienate the entire public further rather then have the ISP or providers just roll over and volunteer to do it for them.
Kearnstd
Elf Wizard

join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ

Re: Verizon the new Google?

as would i since then it causes the pirates to find ways to avoid the scanners. and once again prove the war on piracy is about as effective as the war on drugs has been.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southwest


edit:
February 6th, @02:51PM

Re: Verizon the new Google?

said by Kearnstd See Profile :

and once again prove the war on piracy is about as effective as the war on drugs has been.
War on Poverty, War on Terrorism etc etc.

Ummm. Do we ever win these? Will any ever end?

Like Joshua said in WarGames: "The only winning move is not to play."
apollo80

join:2002-01-31
Richmond, VA

Re: Verizon the new Google?

said by KrK See Profile :

said by Kearnstd See Profile :

and once again prove the war on piracy is about as effective as the war on drugs has been.
War on Poverty, War on Terrorism etc etc.

Ummm. Do we ever win these? Will any ever end?

Like Joshua said in WarGames: "The only winning move is not to play."
Well, when it comes to the war on terror, not "playing" means civilization as we know it ends. No choice. Our survival, keep em on the run, or we fall. Don't like it either, but I like the alternative even less.
jester121

join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL
·ViaTalk

said by MattE See Profile :

If Verizon can do it and please investors, why can't AT&T?
Investors must be tripping over themselves for this kind of performance:

»finance.google.com/finance?q=NYSE%3AVZ


MattE
Obama '08
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
·Corporate Colocation

Re: Verizon the new Google?

said by jester121 See Profile :

said by MattE See Profile :

If Verizon can do it and please investors, why can't AT&T?
Investors must be tripping over themselves for this kind of performance:

»finance.google.com/finance?q=NYSE%3AVZ


As opposed to this kind?

»finance.google.com/finance?q=t&hl=en
jester121

join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL
·ViaTalk

Re: Verizon the new Google?

Not a valid argument, everyone on BBR knows that AT&T is closely aligned with Satan.

It was just fortuitous that you posted that when they're sitting a buck off their 52 week low. I'm pretty sure plenty of investors still aren't convinced that the large FIOS capex investments are the right thing to do right now.

MattE
Obama '08
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
·North State Commun..
·Corporate Colocation

Re: Verizon the new Google?

said by jester121 See Profile :

Not a valid argument, everyone on BBR knows that AT&T is closely aligned with Satan.

It was just fortuitous that you posted that when they're sitting a buck off their 52 week low. I'm pretty sure plenty of investors still aren't convinced that the large FIOS capex investments are the right thing to do right now.
FIne, let's compare them back over the past year:

»finance.google.com/finance?client=ob&q=T

»finance.google.com/finance?client=ob&q=VZ

Verizon still looks better.
moonpuppy

join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL

Verizon is saying this now....

....but what about the future?

They are free to change their mind and if they do, we will see the same rhetoric thrown at them that has been thrown at Cox, Comcast, and ATT.

So far, I have to applaud Verizon because they are correct. It becomes a very slippery slope when it comes to content. What may be legal and acceptable to one person is not to another (pornography being the big one.)
matrix3D

join:2006-09-27
Deep River, CT

Re: Verizon is saying this now....

Well, unless you can predict the future, nobody knows. The planet could also be struck by a comet tomorrow.
moonpuppy

join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL

Re: Verizon is saying this now....

said by matrix3D See Profile :

Well, unless you can predict the future, nobody knows. The planet could also be struck by a comet tomorrow.
You have to ask the question as to what would change Verizon's mind?

en102
Canadian, eh?

join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA

Re: Verizon is saying this now....

Money and legal liabilities waved.

Nobody 'wants' to do this, unless there's some kickbacks. I'm sure that AT&T has some Hollywood interests in mind (AT&T is the ILEC in California).
--
Canada = Hollywood North
myokitis

join:2004-06-19
Alexandria, VA

Re: Verizon is saying this now....

said by en102 See Profile :

AT&T is the ILEC in California.
Yes, but so is Verizon. VZ is the incumbent voice carrier in the LA area.

en102
Canadian, eh?

join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA

Re: Verizon is saying this now....

Are you sure ? I think most of the San Fernando Valley (west at least), which is Los Angeles, is AT&T.
--
Canada = Hollywood North
irsean

join:2001-05-10
Redlands, CA
·Verizon FIOS

said by en102 See Profile :

Money and legal liabilities waved.

Nobody 'wants' to do this, unless there's some kickbacks. I'm sure that AT&T has some Hollywood interests in mind (AT&T is the ILEC in California).
AT&T is the ILEC in DT LA but Vzn is the ILEC in Hollywood.

en102
Canadian, eh?

join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA

Re: Verizon is saying this now....

San Fernando Valley is much larger than Hollywood
--
Canada = Hollywood North
Kearnstd
Elf Wizard

join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
even VZ doesnt go back on their word there is no saying what new laws Hollywood will buy that could make VZ have to filter weather they want to or not.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports

digitalfreak
Frodo failed. Bush has the ring

join:2005-12-09
49533

Re: Verizon is saying this now....

said by Kearnstd See Profile :

even VZ doesnt go back on their word there is no saying what new laws Hollywood will buy that could make VZ have to filter weather they want to or not.
We're talking about voluntarily filtering, not government mandated. Two VERY different things.

kfsutops
Premium
join:2002-08-19
Brandon, FL
clubs:

RR

Take notice RR. Verizon is going to get you when you implement your caps.

Hope it works out for ya.
--
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a LOT of inquisitive idiots"

Edge1
Workin' ta Live

join:2006-03-01
·Verizon Online DSL

Go Verizon!

Verizon has done nothing but impress me from day one, in direct contrast to its many detractors out here. This announced stance toward content filtering does nothing but elevate my opinion of them. They understand what they are, what they should be doing, and what they shouldn't be doing.

Jason Levine
Premium
join:2001-07-13
Albany, NY

Unworkable even for Copyrighted stuff

Even putting aside the slippery slope of what you would need to block, AT&T can't possibly block *all* copyrighted material. It just can't be done.

First of all, pretty much everything that traverses the Internet is copyrighted. Most of it is permitted to be transferred, though. Web pages, for example. But there are a lot of things out there that might not be allowed. What if the web page contains a substantial amount of text from a copyrighted book (more than fair use allows)?

By their reasoning, AT&T should block that also. But how will they know that the text 1) comes from a copyrighted book, 2) Isn't being posted with permission from the copyright author, and 3) Isn't covered by fair use?

The short answer is: They can't. They can't possibly tell in a foolproof manner via an automated system what is permitted copyrighted content being transferred and what isn't. Holes will exist and false positives will occur.

Holes will be both exploited by those who like to transfer copyrighted material without permission from the copyright owners and will also be used as fodder for lawsuits against AT&T. ("They put blocking software in place but didn't block transfer of my work! They are parties to copyright violation and need to pay me big bucks!")

The false positives might range from mildly annoying (if they build a system to quickly remove them) to extremely frustrating (if they leave false positives in place and don't remove them promptly).

Verizon is being smart. They see the morass that AT&T is wandering into and are refusing to follow.
--
-Jason Levine
Support a children's charity. Buy a calendar. Shooting For A Cause
Jason's Toolbox | PCQandA.com
karlmarx

join:2006-09-18
Nashua, NH
·Fairpoint Communic..

It's like homeland security

First, we gave them the right to demand ID to get on the plane, even if we have a ticket.
Then we gave them the right to search us, although we went through the metal detector.
Then we gave them the right to take our lands in the interest of 'commerce'
Then we gave them the right to make a national ID card.
Then we gave them the right to monitor our internet, our phone calls, our medical records.
Then.. we had no more rights, and we had become that which we had fought so long and hard against. A fascist regime controlled by the megacorps, where the common man was just a tool to be used and discarded.
--
The happiest countries are the most secular. The struggle AGAINST corporations is the struggle FOR humanity!

See 11 replies to this post
SilverSurfer

join:2007-08-19

We'll See...

I'm withholding yea or nay on Verizon until this whole filter thing/copyright wars play out more substantially. When the shit hits the fan (Pro-IP Act) we'll see precisely which telcos are on the consumers' side vs. not. Plus I'm not entirely convinced there isn't some as of yet unforeseen/unknown plumb waiting for VZ as a reward for pretending to be pro consumer.
datwell1

join:2002-01-08
Falls Church, VA
·Verizon FIOS

A truly SUPER product (FiOS) will sell itself!

Tom Tauke and the rest of the VZ executives have it right.

A great product at a sensible price is a real value.

Period.

Their FiOS internet is to die for (I have the 15/2 and just love it).

VZ will be building out their network and seeking to add customers for some years yet, so I expect they will be our friends in the meantime. We'll just have to see what happens in later years.

My 2 cents.

--Doug

saxtondk

join:2005-05-15
Tampa, FL

No Easynews?

hmm, can't connect to easynews from my verizon account, but can on brighthouse cable....

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southwest

Someone at Verizon has a CLUE and some Balls

While AT&T has neither.

This quote says it all:

"Once you start going down the path of looking at the information going down the network, there are many that want you to play the role of policeman. Stop illegal gambling offshore. Stop pornography. Stop a whole array of other kinds of activities that some may think inappropriate."

I mean you could forgive a large Corporation if they did it just based on legal liability concerns, ie, Money. That's SOP for them... but to do it also based on wisdom expressed above is refreshing.

Too bad most of us don't live in an area where we can get Verizon... or we'd kick AT&T straight to the curb.
--
"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!)
ggultra2764

join:2007-09-13
Cambridge, NY
·Verizon Wireless B..

For DSL and FIOS: sure, but...

Verizon can comment freely about giving freedom to DSL and FIOS customers. But, what about those on their wireless networks? They still have a tight monthly cap (5 GB) and I haven't heard of any recent efforts from Verizon Wireless to expand their wireless Internet network.

I know for a damn fact that it wouldn't be profitable for Verizon to extend a fiber optic cable or digital subscriber line out into rural territory. But, Verizon can at least continue expanding their wireless services instead of bragging about their new 7 Mbps DSL and FIOS expansions.

a333
A hot cup of integrals please

join:2007-06-12
Corona, NY

Re: For DSL and FIOS: sure, but...

ah, but the problem is, Verizon and Verizon Wireless are two companies that share little more than a name....
Comprendes?
ggultra2764

join:2007-09-13
Cambridge, NY

Re: For DSL and FIOS: sure, but...

Yes. But Verizon Wireless is owned 55% by Verizon Communications in partnership with the Vodafone Group's 45%. So, I would assume that Verizon has some say in what actions are to be done by their wireless company.

digitalfreak
Frodo failed. Bush has the ring

join:2005-12-09
49533

Re: For DSL and FIOS: sure, but...

said by ggultra2764 See Profile :

Yes. But Verizon Wireless is owned 55% by Verizon Communications in partnership with the Vodafone Group's 45%. So, I would assume that Verizon has some say in what actions are to be done by their wireless company.
Doesn't matter.

t1

@backroads.net

http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/Verizon-We-Wont-Be-Hollyw

Verizon FiOS, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE COME TO UPSTATE SOUTH CAROLINA...IMMEDIATEDLY!!! WE HATE AT&T, CHARTER AND THEIR THIRD-RATE BROADBAND/TV SERVICES!!

a333
A hot cup of integrals please

join:2007-06-12
Corona, NY

Re: http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/Verizon-We-Wont-Be-Hollyw

theres no way in hell that Verizon's expanding into AT&T/SBC territory. Looks like your stuck with AT&T for a long time to come...

DC3

@clearwire-dns.net
Yeah it doesn't work half the time.
glemlin

join:2006-07-28
Thunder Bay, ON

high-capacity fiber?

quote:
Mr. Tauke added that Verizon may feel less pressure in this direction than others because it has already invested in its FiOS system that strings high-capacity fiber-optic cables to homes
The people that wrote this do realize the fiber itself just means it's capable of higher speeds, it doesn't mean Verizon's network can handle a higher capacity don't they?

jbgroup1
Undercover Brother
Premium
join:2000-05-04
Beltsville, MD
·Verizon FIOS
·Vonage

This was missed.

quote:
Mr. Tauke added that the company would need to invest more money in capacity as usage grows, and this may encourage the company to replace unlimited-use broadband plans with plans tied to bandwidth use, as Time Warner Cable is considering.
That comment was missed in all the love with Verizon. Already they are backtracking on metered billing.
--
This post sponsored by ME.. A pleasure to read
Catch22007

join:2004-02-19
Danville, PA

I love this.

This is the sort of thing I like to hear. Way to go Verizon! Don't give into that BS spying. AT&T does enough spying for everyone.

Despite having issues with V from time to time THIS is why I will always be a Verizon customer.
Forums » Verizon: We Won't Be Hollywood's Copyright Cops


Tuesday, 07-Oct 17:57:33 Terms of Use | Privacy Policy | Hosting by www.nac.net - DSL,Hosting & Co-lo | feedback | contact
over 9 years online! © 1999-2008 dslreports.com.